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That's just ridiculous and not right.

It's not at all ridiculous. Apple is the only company in the world that I have ever heard of that does something similar to this. Especially in the tech world, it's unheard of.

Example: I'll assume most people here have an HDTV. These can be purchased from countless places. Most of the time, when a model first comes out, it will be priced high, as they are typically the latest and greatest technology, and that technology has a higher price. If Samsung, Sony, etc. used Apple's model, then the price on that TV would stay the same until they released the next revision of that model. This is so not how any other company operates. As the model gets older, after a few months, the prices start to lower. $100 off here, $200 off there, etc. The price simply does not stay the same for 6-12 months.

Why it's an insult:

Would you agree that the production cost of the current MBP models has gone down significantly since they were first released? If you don't think so, then I'm not sure where you get your numbers for computer hardware. With Apple's pricing model, they value a computer at the same price through its entire lifespan. This is not the case with every other electronics company that I can think of. As time goes by, the prices drop, maybe slowly, but they do drop. If this were charted in a graph, then Apple's price would stay as a flat line, while the competition slowly lowers with time Then all of a sudden, they release a new product. Sometimes the price doesn't change, often it will. But it's got brand new hardware, the next latest and greatest technology.

Purchasing towards the end of the previous model's lifespan means that you were paying the highest price to buy that computer. The computer is very overvalued because you paid a lot more than it's worth (compared to buying it on release day). Then, the value of your computer is decreased even more by the fact that the hardware is outdated. It's a double-whammy of losing a lot of value in your computer all at once.

To give a more specific example, let's look at two purchasers of a MBP. The first one purchased it the day they came out, last June. The next one purchased it the day before the next update (or, 15 days before to remove the option of returning it).

Purchaser #1:
Purchased entry-level 15" MBP on June 8th, 2009. Paid $1,699.

Purchaser #2:
Purchased entry-level 15" MBP on February 15th, 2010. Paid $1,699. (Assuming it releases tomorrow, or 15 days from now, whatever).

Now, sure, Purchaser #2's laptop is worth a little more because it is newer, but once the next MBP model comes out, do you think there will be a significant difference of value between #1 and #2? Maybe $100, tops? The second those new updates come out, though, #2 will have lost a lot of value, all in 15 days. #1 lost about the same value, a bit more, but spread of ~8 months.

Yes, one can do some research and make guesses as to when newer Macs come out, but:

1. For new switchers, they may not be aware of Apple's unique pricing model. With all the sales reps that say they don't know when new models will be coming out, they have no ability to suggest that users wait until the new updates come. Perhaps some third-party Apple stores might caution new purchasers of pending updates, but I doubt any official Apple employee would be allowed to say "Well, we are likely going to have updates soon." This has the potential to leave a real sour taste in a new switcher's mouth. Sure, you can say it's their own fault, but it doesn't change the fact that Apple now has an unhappy customer on their hands. I'd hate to have you as a customer service representative with that cold response: "suck it up."

2. Since Apple provides absolutely zero information regarding upcoming updates, it is nearly impossible for potential buyers to make a truly informed decision. If I knew that the MBPs weren't going to get updated until June, I would likely just buy one now. However, I cannot make that informed decision. Most other tech companies will provide at least some idea of pending product updates.

Why should a company have to reimburse you and or give you free items just because they updated their line?

I do not expect a company to reimburse me simply because they released a new product. But, I consider their pricing policies to be an insult to their customers. In that case, I do expect them to do something to make me happy again. If you still do not understand why Apple's policies and my examples above can make people like me upset (and I know there are others on these forums that feel the same way), then perhaps we just have different expectations of companies. I feel a company needs to respect their clients. Apple obviously does, which is why they consistently have great customer satisfaction marks. I still love Apple because they have shown great effort at remedying my problems. They've gone above and beyond what I would have expected them to do.

This is why companies are in trouble because customers always think they deserve more.

Right. Apple is in such rough shape. They're constantly losing money every quarter from poor sales and products with extremely low markups.

I still purchase from Apple because they have made great strides to keep me as a happy customer. A company that strives for high customer satisfaction is good in my books.
 
Wait! What's coming out? A whole new MBP or the same MBP with a new intel processor?

Nobody knows :p However since we all know Apple a little bit one probably can make a few assumptions. For example:

* it will be unibody laptop and therefore it will look very similar to current models
* it will have i5 CPU from Intel
* it might add RGB LED (following DELL's lead)
* it might add USB 3
* it might add BluRay. Now would be a convenient time. Steve would not have to explain why he changed his mind :D
* better GPU from NVIDIA

Some people want but probably will not get this:
* HDMI output
* matte screens
* netbook
 
I think if there was a new unibody case we'd have heard about it in some rumor. All the updates will be on the inside and not visible when simply looking at the thing.
Reason because that is easier to keep quiet. If a different size like 16:9 comes out it is more likely to happen in June IMO.
 
Nobody knows :p However since we all know Apple a little bit one probably can make a few assumptions. For example:

* it will be unibody laptop and therefore it will look very similar to current models
* it will have i5 CPU from Intel
* it might add RGB LED (following DELL's lead)
* it might add USB 3
* it might add BluRay. Now would be a convenient time. Steve would not have to explain why he changed his mind :D
* better GPU from NVIDIA

Some people want but probably will not get this:
* HDMI output
* matte screens
* netbook

Most screens are RGB :p

ATi is performing better that nVidia in the GPU segment and I doubt fermi will be very Laptop Friendly. Plus ATi has better Mac OSX drivers, always have IMO.
 
It's not at all ridiculous. Apple is the only company in the world that I have ever heard of that does something similar to this. Especially in the tech world, it's unheard of.

Example: I'll assume most people here have an HDTV. These can be purchased from countless places. Most of the time, when a model first comes out, it will be priced high, as they are typically the latest and greatest technology, and that technology has a higher price. If Samsung, Sony, etc. used Apple's model, then the price on that TV would stay the same until they released the next revision of that model. This is so not how any other company operates. As the model gets older, after a few months, the prices start to lower. $100 off here, $200 off there, etc. The price simply does not stay the same for 6-12 months.

Why it's an insult:

Would you agree that the production cost of the current MBP models has gone down significantly since they were first released? If you don't think so, then I'm not sure where you get your numbers for computer hardware. With Apple's pricing model, they value a computer at the same price through its entire lifespan. This is not the case with every other electronics company that I can think of. As time goes by, the prices drop, maybe slowly, but they do drop. If this were charted in a graph, then Apple's price would stay as a flat line, while the competition slowly lowers with time Then all of a sudden, they release a new product. Sometimes the price doesn't change, often it will. But it's got brand new hardware, the next latest and greatest technology.

Purchasing towards the end of the previous model's lifespan means that you were paying the highest price to buy that computer. The computer is very overvalued because you paid a lot more than it's worth (compared to buying it on release day). Then, the value of your computer is decreased even more by the fact that the hardware is outdated. It's a double-whammy of losing a lot of value in your computer all at once.

To give a more specific example, let's look at two purchasers of a MBP. The first one purchased it the day they came out, last June. The next one purchased it the day before the next update (or, 15 days before to remove the option of returning it).

Purchaser #1:
Purchased entry-level 15" MBP on June 8th, 2009. Paid $1,699.

Purchaser #2:
Purchased entry-level 15" MBP on February 15th, 2010. Paid $1,699. (Assuming it releases tomorrow, or 15 days from now, whatever).

Now, sure, Purchaser #2's laptop is worth a little more because it is newer, but once the next MBP model comes out, do you think there will be a significant difference of value between #1 and #2? Maybe $100, tops? The second those new updates come out, though, #2 will have lost a lot of value, all in 15 days. #1 lost about the same value, a bit more, but spread of ~8 months.

Yes, one can do some research and make guesses as to when newer Macs come out, but:

1. For new switchers, they may not be aware of Apple's unique pricing model. With all the sales reps that say they don't know when new models will be coming out, they have no ability to suggest that users wait until the new updates come. Perhaps some third-party Apple stores might caution new purchasers of pending updates, but I doubt any official Apple employee would be allowed to say "Well, we are likely going to have updates soon." This has the potential to leave a real sour taste in a new switcher's mouth. Sure, you can say it's their own fault, but it doesn't change the fact that Apple now has an unhappy customer on their hands. I'd hate to have you as a customer service representative with that cold response: "suck it up."

2. Since Apple provides absolutely zero information regarding upcoming updates, it is nearly impossible for potential buyers to make a truly informed decision. If I knew that the MBPs weren't going to get updated until June, I would likely just buy one now. However, I cannot make that informed decision. Most other tech companies will provide at least some idea of pending product updates.



I do not expect a company to reimburse me simply because they released a new product. But, I consider their pricing policies to be an insult to their customers. In that case, I do expect them to do something to make me happy again. If you still do not understand why Apple's policies and my examples above can make people like me upset (and I know there are others on these forums that feel the same way), then perhaps we just have different expectations of companies. I feel a company needs to respect their clients. Apple obviously does, which is why they consistently have great customer satisfaction marks. I still love Apple because they have shown great effort at remedying my problems. They've gone above and beyond what I would have expected them to do.



Right. Apple is in such rough shape. They're constantly losing money every quarter from poor sales and products with extremely low markups.

I still purchase from Apple because they have made great strides to keep me as a happy customer. A company that strives for high customer satisfaction is good in my books.

My whole principle of finance/econ classes in one post
 
It's not at all ridiculous. Apple is the only company in the world that I have ever heard of that does something similar to this. Especially in the tech world, it's unheard of.

Example: I'll assume most people here have an HDTV. These can be purchased from countless places. Most of the time, when a model first comes out, it will be priced high, as they are typically the latest and greatest technology, and that technology has a higher price. If Samsung, Sony, etc. used Apple's model, then the price on that TV would stay the same until they released the next revision of that model. This is so not how any other company operates. As the model gets older, after a few months, the prices start to lower. $100 off here, $200 off there, etc. The price simply does not stay the same for 6-12 months.

Why it's an insult:

Would you agree that the production cost of the current MBP models has gone down significantly since they were first released? If you don't think so, then I'm not sure where you get your numbers for computer hardware. With Apple's pricing model, they value a computer at the same price through its entire lifespan. This is not the case with every other electronics company that I can think of. As time goes by, the prices drop, maybe slowly, but they do drop. If this were charted in a graph, then Apple's price would stay as a flat line, while the competition slowly lowers with time Then all of a sudden, they release a new product. Sometimes the price doesn't change, often it will. But it's got brand new hardware, the next latest and greatest technology.

Purchasing towards the end of the previous model's lifespan means that you were paying the highest price to buy that computer. The computer is very overvalued because you paid a lot more than it's worth (compared to buying it on release day). Then, the value of your computer is decreased even more by the fact that the hardware is outdated. It's a double-whammy of losing a lot of value in your computer all at once.

To give a more specific example, let's look at two purchasers of a MBP. The first one purchased it the day they came out, last June. The next one purchased it the day before the next update (or, 15 days before to remove the option of returning it).

Purchaser #1:
Purchased entry-level 15" MBP on June 8th, 2009. Paid $1,699.

Purchaser #2:
Purchased entry-level 15" MBP on February 15th, 2010. Paid $1,699. (Assuming it releases tomorrow, or 15 days from now, whatever).

Now, sure, Purchaser #2's laptop is worth a little more because it is newer, but once the next MBP model comes out, do you think there will be a significant difference of value between #1 and #2? Maybe $100, tops? The second those new updates come out, though, #2 will have lost a lot of value, all in 15 days. #1 lost about the same value, a bit more, but spread of ~8 months.

Yes, one can do some research and make guesses as to when newer Macs come out, but:

1. For new switchers, they may not be aware of Apple's unique pricing model. With all the sales reps that say they don't know when new models will be coming out, they have no ability to suggest that users wait until the new updates come. Perhaps some third-party Apple stores might caution new purchasers of pending updates, but I doubt any official Apple employee would be allowed to say "Well, we are likely going to have updates soon." This has the potential to leave a real sour taste in a new switcher's mouth. Sure, you can say it's their own fault, but it doesn't change the fact that Apple now has an unhappy customer on their hands. I'd hate to have you as a customer service representative with that cold response: "suck it up."

2. Since Apple provides absolutely zero information regarding upcoming updates, it is nearly impossible for potential buyers to make a truly informed decision. If I knew that the MBPs weren't going to get updated until June, I would likely just buy one now. However, I cannot make that informed decision. Most other tech companies will provide at least some idea of pending product updates.



I do not expect a company to reimburse me simply because they released a new product. But, I consider their pricing policies to be an insult to their customers. In that case, I do expect them to do something to make me happy again. If you still do not understand why Apple's policies and my examples above can make people like me upset (and I know there are others on these forums that feel the same way), then perhaps we just have different expectations of companies. I feel a company needs to respect their clients. Apple obviously does, which is why they consistently have great customer satisfaction marks. I still love Apple because they have shown great effort at remedying my problems. They've gone above and beyond what I would have expected them to do.



Right. Apple is in such rough shape. They're constantly losing money every quarter from poor sales and products with extremely low markups.

I still purchase from Apple because they have made great strides to keep me as a happy customer. A company that strives for high customer satisfaction is good in my books.

Apple has always had a very strict business model. Their way of doing business is very different from many other companies. They decide to keep their pricing the way they want it, not the way of the market fluctuation or pricing. This has always been the case.

Just because they have a very definitive business model doesn't make it their fault. If you purchase something and it gets updated it's your fault. Apple is Apple no matter what you may say.
 
I assume this means you agree, or at least that most business/economists/MBAs might also?

Well... If we're using computers as example in this case. There are reasons for Apple to price their products higher, and their prices remain stable over the lifespan of the product. As you can see Apple's products tend to not decrease in pricing over the year, but they do sometimes cut their cost for higher consumer demand(MBPs, air, iPhone); however, the reason they are kinda overpriced because of the products seem to be kind of inferior or a premium comparing to other products for consumers, and they do have the quality to back it up. Other products tend to decrease over time because of other goods out their that can be substituted, as most are in the same range of quality [e.g. Dell, HP, Sony(maybe a little better)]. But ya, I do agree that Apple products like the MBPs are overvalued at the end of their lifespan just because of the component parts are getting cheaper and new technology is emerging. Though, people who browse the forum or know a bit about technology can relate to this and understand the overpricing, but to quite a few people these are not essential and accept to the pricing because they have the money to spend or just satisfied with the current technology. I only skimmed through your post so I did not grasp the whole aspect. These are just my opinions and of course there are others who have different perspectives on this subject. Peace and Love
 
Apple has historically released refreshes on a Wednesday when the Monday was a holiday.

Monday was a Federal holiday in the US.

There will be no refreshes today I'm afraid.

Sorry if i find this a tad bit funny but....Did you major in Apple History? when was the last update or refresh that apple did on a wednesday because of a federal holiday? who would know this? I am awaiting the MBP update just like everyone else but to sit here and say something so dumb as to the quote above just tells me that people are getting to the point that makes no sense at all. If you need a MBP now go get one but if you can wait then wait. Its very simple....not hard at all to do. I am going to buy my first MBP when the update comes out but i am in no rush to buy it. I want to see the specs that it will have and see the cost it will be on me. I just hope that the MBP's will have better specs than the pc laptops that are out now.
 
Sorry if i find this a tad bit funny but....Did you major in Apple History? when was the last update or refresh that apple did on a wednesday because of a federal holiday? who would know this? I am awaiting the MBP update just like everyone else but to sit here and say something so dumb as to the quote above just tells me that people are getting to the point that makes no sense at all. If you need a MBP now go get one but if you can wait then wait. Its very simple....not hard at all to do. I am going to buy my first MBP when the update comes out but i am in no rush to buy it. I want to see the specs that it will have and see the cost it will be on me. I just hope that the MBP's will have better specs than the pc laptops that are out now.

Posted by Peace in another thread;

"https://www.macrumors.com/2009/05/27/...white-macbook/

May 27th. The week that Memorial Day was on.

-------------------

https://www.macrumors.com/2009/09/09/...-to-ipod-nano/

Sept. 9th. The week that Labor Day was on.

--------

There's others too."

Seems to make a lot of sense.
 
Most screens are RGB :p

ATi is performing better that nVidia in the GPU segment and I doubt fermi will be very Laptop Friendly. Plus ATi has better Mac OSX drivers, always have IMO.

t's a different type of RGB ;) Apple uses white LEDs. RGB LEDs give better gamut but are more expensive. I know that DELL uses them (as an option) in high end laptops. I do not know if anybody else does.
 
I will not post his entire comment, but someone has mentioned that Apple's pricing strategy is unheard of, at least in the tech world. While it may be true in the tech world, Disney does the same thing to some extent. Most of their movies come out at a set price and stay there, excluding the initial release sale most retailers have. They never let their core products hit bargain bins, they just pull back product at preset times. I had a chance to speak to a high level Disney exec., ( I am a Mosaic rep part time) and basically he said the pricing many companies do is considered a race to the bottom. The problem with that type of business model is that consumers get an expectation level set, and once they do, its hard to change that. Most people realize Disney movies are not dropping too much, so they don't tend to hold out for constant sales. There are some from time to time, but not constantly. I would love it if Macs got cheaper thru their life cycle, but they typically do not. This helps to keep the resale value high, and to some effect reduces buyers remorse. Look at Dell. They have a high bang for the buck, but what corners were cut to get eke out a profit margin on such cutthroat pricing? Buy a Dell today, and 2 weeks later its on sale for a lesser price with some crazy promo code. I hope Apple NEVER takes that approach, and keeps their quality high.
 
Earlier I had posted an offer I had for a 15" MBP for 1100. There is also new 13" for 800. Should I wait or buy one of those. Your opinion on this is greatky appreciated as this will be my 1st Mac.
 
Earlier I had posted an offer I had for a 15" MBP for 1100. There is also new 13" for 800. Should I wait or buy one of those. Your opinion on this is greatky appreciated as this will be my 1st Mac.

If your strapped for cash and it's the newer unibody then you will still be getting a good laptop. If you are able to spend a little more and you want the best of the best then I would wait.
 
Earlier I had posted an offer I had for a 15" MBP for 1100. There is also new 13" for 800. Should I wait or buy one of those. Your opinion on this is greatky appreciated as this will be my 1st Mac.

They both sound like great deals. I think the only reason to wait would be if you need the extra power the refresh is rumored to bring. I would certainly get one for that price (I'm only waiting to get the most for my money). That's just me talkin' though. :D
 
I will not post his entire comment...

(ditto)

Those are some very good points, and it is definitely interesting to hear the point of view of an executive behind a company that uses such a pricing model. I definitely agree that if Apple were to join the race to the bottom, that a lot of sacrifices would have to be made, and I wouldn't like it either. I simply feel that Apple could offer more competitive prices throughout a product's lifespan without having to sacrifice their bottom line.

But ultimately, my biggest point is that Apple could seriously burn lots of first-time customers who are unaware of the strategies involved in buying a Mac. Buying a product just before it is updated can lead to serious buyer's remorse for a first-time Mac purchaser.

On another note, I'd like to point out a minor difference with your analogy: DVDs and Blu-Rays aren't "updated" every 6-12 months. It's not like Up will be re-released in 2 months with a faster frame rate and bigger screen.
 
Earlier I had posted an offer I had for a 15" MBP for 1100. There is also new 13" for 800. Should I wait or buy one of those. Your opinion on this is greatky appreciated as this will be my 1st Mac.

I echo the comments above regarding this purchase. If you don't need the power of a possible update, or you are short on cash to afford prices comparable to the current models (the newer models should have very similar prices), then this would be a good deal. It is a significant discount for a great machine. If I had a similar deal I would likely jump on it.

However, if price is less of an issue, or if you want newer hardware, would recommend waiting. Even if you wait, you should still be able to find a good deal on the current models as everyone will be clearing out the old models.

NB: If you do purchase the open box, make sure you update the purchase date with Apple to get your full warranty. You will need to send a copy of your receipt in that show the date you bought it on.
 
I echo the comments above regarding this purchase. If you don't need the power of a possible update, or you are short on cash to afford prices comparable to the current models (the newer models should have very similar prices), then this would be a good deal. It is a significant discount for a great machine. If I had a similar deal I would likely jump on it.

However, if price is less of an issue, or if you want newer hardware, would recommend waiting. Even if you wait, you should still be able to find a good deal on the current models as everyone will be clearing out the old models.

NB: If you do purchase the open box, make sure you update the purchase date with Apple to get your full warranty. You will need to send a copy of your receipt in that show the date you bought it on.

Thanks for the tip, had not thought about that regarding the purchase date. and while getting one that is updated would be nice, the one for 800 will not last too long in the store so my hand will be forced by this friday one way or the other.
 
Thanks for the tip, had not thought about that regarding the purchase date. and while getting one that is updated would be nice, the one for 800 will not last too long in the store so my hand will be forced by this friday one way or the other.

If you don't get the 13" for 8 bills, let me know where it is so I can snatch it!:D
 
oh-man, what a crap.

I've seen CMY(K) screen before.

i´m not sure, if you did, that would mean, that you have a screen with solid paint on it which would reduce the framerate to 1 forever. :D

i think, that what you wanted to say ist that there are certain monitors, that are calibrated to simulate the cmyk colour system. but they still display it in rgb, as rgb ist emitted (colour)light and cmyk is reflected (colour)light.
 
Well spoken! That is why someone needs to do their research before they spend money they are pissed about spending. Is this why someone created forums? I am finding out a lot of info about everything.
To be fair noone here knows when the update is coming, its all just guess work. I wouldn't be suprised if they held off the new model until after the ipad launch.

Im debating if i should just buy the current Macbook(not pro) and be happy with a great machine, i've never gone Mac but the say 'once you go Mac you don't go back' or something like that.:D


Oh and hi all, you can call me Del.:p

:apple:
 
i´m not sure, if you did, that would mean, that you have a screen with solid paint on it which would reduce the framerate to 1 forever. :D

i think, that what you wanted to say ist that there are certain monitors, that are calibrated to simulate the cmyk colour system. but they still display it in rgb, as rgb ist emitted (colour)light and cmyk is reflected (colour)light.

Damn you, you got it.
:D

It was a Microsoft add painted on a monitor.
 
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