CVS and Rite Aid Officially Disable Apple Pay Support At Stores Nationwide

[Rogifan]

I love how everyone here (most everyone at least) acts like Apply Pay just made cash money/credit/debit cards irrelevant which it hasn't and never will.

But if I can pay with credit why can't I pay with the credit card stored on my phone? What's the difference to the retailer if I swipe a piece of plastic or hold my phone to the POS terminal. Is the retailer getting more data about me and my purchase if I swipe vs using my phone? If so they should just be honest about it and say Pay doesn't provide them the data they need to provide the customer a better experience.

 

[doelcm82]

YOU CAN STILL PAY WITH YOUR CARD LIKE YOU ALWAYS HAVE UP UNTIL 2 WEEKS AGO... NOBODY IS TURNING MONEY AWAY, YOU JUST CANT PAY WITH YOUR PHONE.

Seems like it needs to be in CAPS for some people to properly understand it..

CVS is boycotting the method of payment that I prefer. I'm not saying they don't have every right, buy I plan to shop at places that accept Pay whenever possible. So my business goes from CVS to Walgreens.

 

[rwilliams]

How did pre-NFC days for iPhone users go from "psh, no one uses that, it's just a fad, we don't need NFC," to holding knives and pitchforks when companies disable the service threatening to go to other companies that do take NFC post-iPhone 6?

Exactly. Just a year ago, folks around here were dismissing NFC as a fad that would never catch on, a gimmick for Android phone manufacturers, etc. Now that Apple decides to use it, the flag of NFC is being waved all over the place. Never underestimate this board's ability to be amusing as hell.

 

[gnasher729]

True. I think the heart of the issue is that these businesses are run by businessmen who have been trained after years of experience to be wary of any new piece of technology. They don't know how much better NFC is than any other system, and they need it explained to them like the technology-illiterate people they are. Apple I'm sure to this day remembers how little businessmen understand the tech world... They will come around once someone they trust explains the advantages to them, it just hasn't happened yet.

Dargoth, don't assume they don't know how this works. Their problem is the typical problem of the "marketing" man: They imagine how you, as the customer, should behave to benefit their company. Then somehow in their mind, they assume that you _will_ behave as you should to benefit their company. The question that the consumer asks "why on earth would I do what you think I should do", that question doesn't occur to them.

In this case, they want access to your checking account, to your personal data, and your purchase data. And because they want it, and it benefits them, somehow there is a magical switch in their brain that makes them think _you_, the customer, want it as well. They actually _believe_ that you want to give them your personal data and purchase history. If Steve Jobs came out of his grave and explained what they are doing wrong, they'd say that he doesn't know how to run a business.

 

[BruiserB]

I think you're right. Pay will be available on the Target App?

Yes, Target has only launched as an app-purchase partner. Surely to avoid crossing their MCX agreement.

Meijer remains the one exception who is part of both partnerships. One of the media outlets should contact them to see what's up with that??

 

[Chupa Chupa]

Ok, when just about every major retailers gets together and conspires to take a joint action, that is intended to create a one and only mobile payment system, and their membership includes a requirement that members not accept ANY OTHER system in their stores, so as to prevent any other system from ever getting traction and being able to compete with the proposed system, what would you call that?

Still you didn't point out any flaw in his theory, only that it doesn't come from a lawyer. This is a fallacy, since not being a lawyer doesn't mean your theory is wrong just as being a lawyer doesn't mean your theory is right.

The suggestion to notify the DoJ is sound, even were his theory incorrect: it's their job to evaluate it and either discard it or act.

Fair enough. Here is the major flaw in your theory: there is no consumer harm right now. Harm must be immediate and provable or there is no cause of action. It's just wasting someone's time at DOJ when they could be reading about actual harms that need to be remedied.

Companies are allowed to work together on project and be in consortium together. The fact merchants are organizing to create their own payment system isn't in itself either violating antitrust laws or illegal collusion. You must prove customers are monetarily put at a disadvantage because of it; that it unnaturally caused prices to rise.

What we have here is ONE payment system out of several available to consumers. Consumers still have many, many options and payment choices. NFC is NOT a consumer right.

To the antitrust angle, right now MCX is in it's infancy. It has zero pricing power right now, a key element if the collision is going to be harmful. It's not enough to say consumers are inconvenienced because their preferred payment method isn't supported. Inconvenience is not a cause for legal action.

 

[caesarp]

Exactly. Just a year ago, folks around here were dismissing NFC as a fad that would never catch on, a gimmick for Android phone manufacturers, etc. Now that Apple decides to use it, the flag of NFC is being waved all over the place. Never underestimate this board's ability to be amusing as hell.

Because a tipping point has just about been reached with NFC due to the liability shift coming up in less than a year (which all but requires chip/pin at merchants, which can easily incorporate NFC readers -- albeit not required) and Apple Pay, obviously, which has a huge marketing effort behind it. You didn't see Google Wallet commercials during the World Series, like you saw with Apple Pay.

 

[weaverra]

I don't see why not. There is no legal requirement to use NFC.

They will accept the very same debit or credit card you use on Apple Pay or Google Wallet.

 

[G2244]

Exactly. Just a year ago, folks around here were dismissing NFC as a fad that would never catch on, a gimmick for Android phone manufacturers, etc. Now that Apple decides to use it, the flag of NFC is being waved all over the place. Never underestimate this board's ability to be amusing as hell.

Never underestimate Apples' ability to make us "need" something we didn't know we needed.

 

[Rogifan]

Exactly. Just a year ago, folks around here were dismissing NFC as a fad that would never catch on, a gimmick for Android phone manufacturers, etc. Now that Apple decides to use it, the flag of NFC is being waved all over the place. Never underestimate this board's ability to be amusing as hell.

So basically people don't speak up about something until it affects them (or may affect them in the future). And that's surprising or amusing to people because?

 

[linuxcooldude]

People reported their phones bending. And this is a far bigger story than that.

----------



You fire up an app and scan a QR code with your camera. Sounds like a delightfully simple experience compared to me resting my thumb on the touch id sensor.

A little more complicated then that. After you scan the CVS QR code, CVS then has to scan the QR code from your phone.

 

[doelcm82]

Exactly. Just a year ago, folks around here were dismissing NFC as a fad that would never catch on, a gimmick for Android phone manufacturers, etc. Now that Apple decides to use it, the flag of NFC is being waved all over the place. Never underestimate this board's ability to be amusing as hell.

You are part of this place. What happened to you that made you so amusing?

 

[ptb42]

I am sure to that the percentage that Apple collects might have something to do with it and the their new wallet they are going to offer may have a better rate.

Oh, good grief. Are you really that uninformed?

The small percentage comes from the issuing bank, out of the fee they ALREADY collect. The merchant pays the same fee as if the consumer presents the physical card. This has been posted over and over, usually in response to clueless postings like yours.

Believe it or not, you were on the right track. MCX/CurrentC is indeed about credit card fees: it aims to replace the entire fee (usually 2-3%) with a flat ACH fee of about 4 cents per transaction. In exchange, the consumer has to give up a lot of personal information, and lose a lot of protection.

 

[gnasher729]

Oh God, you guys are making a big deal out of nothing. Are you all that bored with your lives? Talk about first world problems. Go out to the park, spend time with some old friends or family members (not on FB) and chill out. Life is just too short for such silliness.

That's what you call an "ad hominem" attack. Instead of discussing the problem, you claim that people that don't agree with you have some personality problem. It's a nasty thing, and needs to be called out on every opportunity.

It's usually used when someone has nothing to support their own arguments.

 

[TWSS37]

The 19 year old choose to work at that company, and therefore assumes their company culture. I see no reason why we should not do this.


I would pay in straight pennies pick my stuff up and walk away. If all the money is there I am not obliged to stay.

You do realize you'd have to have counted those pennies before going to the store to know you'd have enough to cover the transaction, right?

 

[Krevnik]

But if I can pay with credit why can't I pay with the credit card stored on my phone? What's the difference to the retailer if I swipe a piece of plastic or hold my phone to the POS terminal. Is the retailer getting more data about me and my purchase if I swipe vs using my phone? If so they should just be honest about it and say Pay doesn't provide them the data they need to provide the customer a better experience.

Yes, yes they are getting more data when you swipe. And that CC is also something that can be taken (a la Home Depot & Target Breach).

MCX is about turn mobile payments back into checks, trading security for lower fees (for the merchant). And then data mining the hell outta you.

 

[840quadra]

This just smells like a contract obligation put in place by MCX.

Isn't Apple Pay based on, and using EMV ? Isn't EMV (Chip and Signature) going to be a requirement starting in late 2015 for merchants to avoid the burden of fraud being placed on them?

Sorry but I think it makes more sense to support the global EMV standard, more than it does to jump onboard with MCX. That said, I don't understand the proposed perks offered to MCX vendors, though I don't intend to use that system.

 

[aristokrat]

Why is everyone here raising a big ole' stink about nfc being disabled at cvs, riteaid, etc.?? At the registers, they still have the card terminal for you to swipe your card.. I've never had a problem with that.. I'd be leery if the clerk said they needed to run my card behind the counter where I can't see it but just bc they have disabled nfc, no one wants to shop there anymore? Are ya'll mad bc now you have to carry your wallet or purses around (I've never seen a woman without a purse/clutch, so perhaps it's just the men complaining here). Is having to carry your wallet (with ID and cards) that big of a deal.. I don't care what they do, it's their business to do what they want. Don't like it, shop elsewhere. Are ya'll going to riot against small businesses that don't have an NFC terminal but still take the cards via a physical swipe? Just my 2 cents.

It's because the retailers are acting so blatently anti-customer. We all know that retailers don't really care about us, but when they make it so publicly obvious that we are merely meat-and-money-sacks to be taken advantage, it causes a negative reaction. "We don't care about your security, we'd much rather be able to track you and will occasionally 'let' hackers take all your information!" Yes, I can still use my credit card, but I don't really want to because I've gotten tired of canceling my cards every time another big retailer gets compromised. ApplePay (and any others that show up like it) was a step in the right direction, MCX/CVS/RiteAid are a step in the wrong direction.

 

[Chupa Chupa]

Not at all. MCX is a clunky product that uses easily hacked QR codes and works by using ACH to tie directly into your bank account. Further, to use MCX you must:

1. wake phone
2. open app
3. enter passcode
4. scan or "show" QR code
5. know that your personal data is being shared and used and abused by the merchant and its partners

To use Apple Pay:

1. hold phone up to NFC while at the same time holding finger over touchID button (ta dah -- all done).
2. know that your personal data is not shared with the merchant.

Now which do you think the masses will like better again? What advantage does MCX have?

Correct, but the consumer has to have either an iPhone 6/6 plus to use NFC or an Android phone with NFC or a credit card with an NFC app.

To use MCX one only needs a recent iPhone or Android smartphone.

Now of those two groups: NFC phone owners vs. all iOS/Android smartphone owners which is the biggest group? I'd say the NFC is a sub-set of the latter.

Your point goes to ease of use, not accessibility.

 

[Tzerlag]

well if one pieces rumors together google is working on a new "google wallet" as well as this news hmmm i sense an android in the mix

Google may be covering their bases (since their NFC product hasn't really been a big success).

But the driving force behind MCX is Walmart in an effort to get away from paying the few-percent credit card fees that cut into their bottom line.

 

[Jibbajabba]

All that will do is annoy the 19 year old making $10/hour working the register. Douchey move.

Strikes me as being a veiled threat.

If you must go to CVS or Rite Aid, pay in pennies and dimes. Maybe when you're holding up the queue for several minutes they'll appreciate the worldwide NFC standard. And actually tell them: "I would have paid with my phone in a couple of seconds, but you deliberately turned it off, so this is what you get."

As the guy at the till I would think "I couldn't care less so let me check each penny making sure it is not some foreign currency and let me make sure the $10 in pennies are actually the right amount."

Guess who really wins, you o the guy at $10 an hour who is behind the till with or without you.

 

[jasonbogen]

They are rejecting a form of payment, they are not rejecting money. Its not a poor decision when they'll have a competing product in its place.

It's a poor decision if they lose customers over it when they have to do nothing at this point to keep it already functioning. My family and I have gotten 99%+ of our prescriptions from CVS over the last 30 year. I have now moved my prescriptions to Walgreens. Keep in mind that it isn't just an anti/pro Apple thing. This is a company saying that they don't want to give you the choice because they want to continue to harvest your information and want to push a less secure solution that they are backing. They have the right to do that and I have the right to tell them "bye-bye".

 

[TWSS37]

Because a tipping point has just about been reached with NFC due to the liability shift coming up in less than a year (which all but requires chip/pin at merchants, which can easily incorporate NFC readers -- albeit not required) and Apple Pay, obviously, which has a huge marketing effort behind it. You didn't see Google Wallet commercials during the World Series, like you saw with Apple Pay.

No. How many people on this site love to say for Apple products "I don't care if it takes another month, just do it right." And now that stores are seeing they're going to see an increase in NFC traffic, they don't have the ability to say, "OK, hold on, let's make sure we are approaching this the right way." This is beyond hypocritical.

 

[gnasher729]

This is not a forum for hackers. So I will not explain how it will be possible to hack your info using this method of payment. All I will say to those who fill safe using this method do not be surprise when this happens, if Apple even own up to breaches. I am aware of methods how hackers can get your info from this. Whether this is reasons why these stores decide to stop offering this form of payment to customers I do not know. I CAN SAY this is not as secure as they (Apple) would have customers to believe.

I'm quite sure you already told us everything about how this would be hacked that you know. Let me repeat what you know about hacking:


Exactly. Nothing.

 

[samcraig]

Their ultimate goal obviously has to be elimination of credit card use and thus the fees they pay cc companies otherwise what's the point of CurrentC?

Why is it that obvious or a certainty. They can save millions by reducing the # of CC transactions by introducing their own payment method. They don't need to eliminate it.