Cydia Files Appeal in Higher Court in Legal Battle Against Apple

[dsut4392]

Not fair comparisons. Neither McDonald's nor Burger King dominate the "fast food" restaurant market like Apple dominates the mobile OS market. Apple's iOS (and therefore the App Store) has around 55% to 60% share in the U.S.

Also, this is not about Apple and its own apps like Pages, Numbers, Keynote, GarageBand, Safari, etc. No one is saying here that Apple should have to make Pages, Safari, etc. available on Android or anywhere else. Apple is free to only offer those apps on Apple devices.

1) Dominating a market is not a monopoly. There are other choices that work just fine for 45% of the US population, and more worldwide.
2) Apple got to that market share from 0% by offering something different, competing with established players
3) The "something different" defining iPhones is the walled garden iOS ecosystem, which has never allowed sideloading.
4) iOS is Apple's own app. You're saying Apple have to modify iOS to allow alternative app stores. How is that fundamentally different to saying they have to modify Pages or Safari?
5) jailbreaking iOS violates DMCA, but I don't think there's anything stopping anyone from developing their own OS from the ground up to run an iPhone.

 

[dsut4392]

I don't but iPhones because of the walled garden. I buy iPhones because of everything nice it has that Android doesn't have, including constant updates, a better and refined UX, an ecosystem etc. The walled garden is one of its few downsides. So no I wouldn't be better off with Android, I hate everything about it.

And yes I do jailbreak, it's just that doesn't seem like jailbreaking is gonna be around much longer. iOS 15 still doesn't have a proper jailbreak.

The ability for those OS updates to just work without breaking apps left right and centre, the refined UX that extends down into app behaviour, the ecosystem...how exactly do you think those would work without the walled garden? While the behaviours are well entrenched now that would see most people continuing to use apps from the Apple App store, the whole ecosystem would never have come to be without the walled garden existing in the first place.

 

[dsut4392]

Obviously it's effort, but it's negligible effort comparing to creating an entire new feature like you're suggesting. At the worst case they would need to create a switch to enable it, which is also trivial. FYI the secure enclave has absolutely nothing to do with it. The restrictions are codesign related (kernel + amfid + installd). Trust me I've contributed to jailbreaks, allowing sideloading is the easiest thing ever if you have access to iOS.

Hey Jake, can you go and get some keys to your front door cut for me so I can let myself in please? I know there are other houses out there, but nothing compares to your particular style, plus your girlfriend Siri is really sweet. It's a pretty negligible effort so you should go and do it, even though it's obviously against your interests.

 

[Vulkan]

What people like Cydia need to do is come up with an operating system built frmo the ground up to run on any phone hardware (like chrome did with ChromeOS) and allow it to sideload apps.
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.... wait a minute... there is already an OS that does that? It starts with A...

 

[GLaDOS2020]

McDonald’s has an illegal monopoly over the McRib! I should be able to get a McRib anywhere at any time of the year and not just when the overlords at McDonald’s decides to bless us with one.

Saurik made Cydia. McDonalds own the McRib. Apples and oranges, buddy.

 

[GLaDOS2020]

I’m trying to read this on my Cydiaphone. But seriously given the prevalence of malware on android - Apple is not wrong. But here is the thing, why doesn’t cydia sell subscriptions et all on their site and have apps downloaded from App Store. The App Store requirement is that customers have to be allowed to sign up from the app, not that they must. Ergo see Spotify

Cydia is an app store, not an app so that wouldn’t work.

 

[_Spinn_]

Should be interesting to see where this goes. I thought for sure this was all over with.

 

[svish]

Looking to see how the final outcome will be.

 

[joecomo]

Cydia launched in 2008… and only just now decided to start wasting their money on seeing how many lawsuits they can get dismissed.

Well their chances are better now - in 2008 there wasn‘t even an App Store to begin with …

 

[joecomo]

I don't want sideloading because it will eventually be required by most developers. You can't say "just don't sideload" because soon enough apps even from top developers will be unavailable in the App Store. Once sideloading becomes an option on iOS, it will become a necessity. You'll end up having the Microsoft Store, the Adobe Store, Facebook Store, Epic (remember them?) Store, Zynga, King, Google, etc., all with their own licensing agreements, billing, return policies, storage use, bandwidth use, etc.

When something goes wrong, developers of sideloaded apps will point fingers at each other, Apple, and the user, and they will never accept responsibility. The user will be left with no recourse.

I trust Apple far more than random developer #329487 when it comes to security and privacy.

You actually have a point there - and that is not what anyone wants.
A small group of people would like sideloading - to install stuff like e.g. UTM.
Would be good to find a way to allow that - without giving in to Adobe and others, that will screw us up.

 

[boyarka]

Apple has repeatedly denied that the App Store is a monopoly given that it faces competition from the Google Play store on Android devices.

Kim Jong Un also argued to the UN assembly that lack of freedom in North Korea is a poor argument since he could freely eat as much chocolate as he wanted in Switzerland.

 

[Alp3r]

What a loser, he wants nothing to do with cydia anymore but still wants to keep filing lawsuits 👎

 

[Jake James]

You’re definitely in the minority. You can’t have your cake and eat it. Sorry…

I should rule over my own device

 

[Jake James]

A negligible effort for an almost non-existent market of folks. Still too much effort.

Regardless it's not like we're requesting a favor, this should be our right. Full control over devices people buy should be a right warranted by the law.

 

[Jake James]

Who still jailbreak's their phones? Seriously. I never got this sort of complaint directed at Apple. It's their sandbox that you are playing in. They can decide the rules. If they say the only way to get an app on the phone is the Apple Store then that's the rules. Go to android if you want a phone that operates like the Wild West.

No. I decide the rules over a phone I bought. I don't like Android, it has freedom but lacks everything else.

 

[Jake James]

Of course you don't care, or care if some of Apple's customers are harmed. Selfishness at its finest.

If you don't like Apple's policies, simply reward an Apple competitor with your currency purchasing their phone where you can side load to your heart's content. And find true happiness.

No customer will be harmed. If you want the feature you use it, if you don't you don't use it. Companies won't force you to use it any more than they do on Android.

I won't find happines on Android, it's literally way worse even though it has the one thing iOS lacks. "Go to Android" is the dumbest argument ever people should stop using.

 

[Jake James]

Agreed, but still sad for those that voted with their dollars for a specific ecosystem when another type exists. Apple's way of doing things is unique and may very will be legislated out of existence so that we have no choice but the wild wild west. Personally I'd love to see the Mac store operate in the same way iOS does, everything in one place with one payment system. 😍😍😍

"Go to Android" is like saying "Don't like a law, go to another country that lacks that one law but has 100 much worse ones".

 

[Jake James]

Hey Jake, can you go and get some keys to your front door cut for me so I can let myself in please? I know there are other houses out there, but nothing compares to your particular style, plus your girlfriend Siri is really sweet. It's a pretty negligible effort so you should go and do it, even though it's obviously against your interests.

The one flaw in your argument is no one is asking to open a store inside the App Store, we want the ability to have alternative iOS App Stores. The App Store is Apple's private property, the user's device is not Apple's property. A more accurate analogy would be for you to build your own house in my neighborhood where the neighborhood is iOS.

 

[Jake James]

The ability for those OS updates to just work without breaking apps left right and centre, the refined UX that extends down into app behaviour, the ecosystem...how exactly do you think those would work without the walled garden? While the behaviours are well entrenched now that would see most people continuing to use apps from the Apple App store, the whole ecosystem would never have come to be without the walled garden existing in the first place.

I have all those things on my jailbroken device. Since I have both, that proves the wallen garden has nothing to do with it. Sure, you can mess your device up if you want to, but that's your problem.

 

[Jake James]

1) Dominating a market is not a monopoly. There are other choices that work just fine for 45% of the US population, and more worldwide.
2) Apple got to that market share from 0% by offering something different, competing with established players
3) The "something different" defining iPhones is the walled garden iOS ecosystem, which has never allowed sideloading.
4) iOS is Apple's own app. You're saying Apple have to modify iOS to allow alternative app stores. How is that fundamentally different to saying they have to modify Pages or Safari?
5) jailbreaking iOS violates DMCA, but I don't think there's anything stopping anyone from developing their own OS from the ground up to run an iPhone.

4) The device is the user's property. If the OS has to be modified to allow freedom over the user's property, so be it.
5) Yes there is. It is impossible to install your own OS without a bootchain vulnerability which might or might not exist. iOS devices are locked on the hardware level to only run iOS because Apple doesn't want you to install other OS's either.

 

[Jake James]

What people like Cydia need to do is come up with an operating system built frmo the ground up to run on any phone hardware (like chrome did with ChromeOS) and allow it to sideload apps.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.... wait a minute... there is already an OS that does that? It starts with A...

I don't just want freedom. I also want the refined UX, constant updates and everything that iOS has and Android doesn't. Apple could at the very least allow me to modify my device to do this, but they actively prevent you from modding the device you bought and own, not just in software but in hardware.

 

[icanhazmac]

I don't want sideloading because it will eventually be required by most developers. You can't say "just don't sideload" because soon enough apps even from top developers will be unavailable in the App Store. Once sideloading becomes an option on iOS, it will become a necessity. You'll end up having the Microsoft Store, the Adobe Store, Facebook Store, Epic (remember them?) Store, Zynga, King, Google, etc., all with their own licensing agreements, billing, return policies, storage use, bandwidth use, etc.

When something goes wrong, developers of sideloaded apps will point fingers at each other, Apple, and the user, and they will never accept responsibility. The user will be left with no recourse.

I trust Apple far more than random developer #329487 when it comes to security and privacy.

Couldn't say it any better, this is the mess alt-stores will bring. Members here claim "apps won't leave the Apple store" but they will, the bottom line is devs want you on their page looking at only their stuff. In the Apple store you can easily research all their competitors.

Say goodbye to centralized updates too.

Add to the mix that all of these alt-stores could have separate payment processors so now your payment information is spread around instead of just in 1 location.

Devs will also love not having to tell you how much data they are collecting on you like Apple forces them to do.

 

[wbeasley]

Who claims they made the App Store before there was an AppStore?

What apps were there before there was a dev kit to create apps?
Surely the only iPhone that existed were Apple ones…

Do people still jailbrake? Really? What percent bother?

 

[Jake James]

Couldn't say it any better, this is the mess alt-stores will bring. Members here claim "apps won't leave the Apple store" but they will, the bottom line is devs want you on their page looking at only their stuff. In the Apple store you can easily research all their competitors.

Say goodbye to centralized updates too.

Add to the mix that all of these alt-stores could have separate payment processors so now your payment information is spread around instead of just in 1 location.

Ah yes because developers totally force you to sideload on Android.

 

[wbeasley]

I don't just want freedom. I also want the refined UX, constant updates and everything that iOS has and Android doesn't. Apple could at the very least allow me to modify my device to do this, but they actively prevent you from modding the device you bought and own, not just in software but in hardware.

And you knew all that before you bought the iPhone…

If you wanted these abilities, why didn’t you just buy some Android device?