Take Apple to court. If it won't state the reasons sue them and get the company to disclose the exact reasons. This opaque behaviour by Apple is not on.
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'Dash' App Removed From App Store for Alleged Review Manipulation
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That sort or opinion is precisely why Apple can get away with that sort of behaviour.
I didn't read the whole 9 pages , but :
1- I think that Apple is very aware about the public impact of their decision, and that the developper would go public with it, as his app seems to be popular. While I'd still like to give the benefit of the doubt to the app author, I would tend to believe that Apple wouldn't do what they've done if they didn't have rock solid proof of wrongdoing.
2- Also, the developper of this app is very lucky in the sense that the kind of app he makes is destined to the most tech knowledgable user you can find : developpers. Most of them will simply switch to buying the app from the dev's store directly. I doubt Apple's decision will have much impact on his sales. ( except for the iOS version...). It would have been more tragic if he made an iOS app only , like a game or a lifestyle/productivity app etc..
Most mac users never even bought an app outside the Mac AppStore in their life.
But still... even if their evidence is solid, I think Apple should give a warning first, and if the dev doesn't correct then situation then you can delete his app ( and reinburse the users )
1- I think that Apple is very aware about the public impact of their decision, and that the developper would go public with it, as his app seems to be popular. While I'd still like to give the benefit of the doubt to the app author, I would tend to believe that Apple wouldn't do what they've done if they didn't have rock solid proof of wrongdoing.
2- Also, the developper of this app is very lucky in the sense that the kind of app he makes is destined to the most tech knowledgable user you can find : developpers. Most of them will simply switch to buying the app from the dev's store directly. I doubt Apple's decision will have much impact on his sales. ( except for the iOS version...). It would have been more tragic if he made an iOS app only , like a game or a lifestyle/productivity app etc..
Most mac users never even bought an app outside the Mac AppStore in their life.
But still... even if their evidence is solid, I think Apple should give a warning first, and if the dev doesn't correct then situation then you can delete his app ( and reinburse the users )
Please learn how to take a joke. Im sure you can read about it online. Its not that hard.
The Holocaust is not the Third Reich. The Third Reich was the dictatorship of the Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei (National Socialist German Workers' Party).
The poster is making the connection to Apple's decisions being akin to a dictatorship, not the mass killings of a people.
Put your hysteria back in the cupboard.
All you guys defend Dash because they said they didn't do it. Why, because you guys of course are sure that if he actually did the fraud, he would certainly admit it, right?
Haha, ok then!
Haha, ok then!
Dear Phil,
I am told that if you devise a referral system that is prone to fraud, it doesn't work in your favor if you are unable to establish proper jurisdiction. Measures based on first thought, bias and rumor do not make up for that. Much like a verdict on a Prod. Mkt. VP surrounded with 4 year old products - which undoubtedly has its inner causes - but has a more fatal effect on the company.
I am told that if you devise a referral system that is prone to fraud, it doesn't work in your favor if you are unable to establish proper jurisdiction. Measures based on first thought, bias and rumor do not make up for that. Much like a verdict on a Prod. Mkt. VP surrounded with 4 year old products - which undoubtedly has its inner causes - but has a more fatal effect on the company.
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Perhaps Apple should provide details such as dates, times, and entries that were made that led to their decision. Thats what I would expect if I were getting shut down permanently.
But it seems there's more to the situation.
But it seems there's more to the situation.
Apple may be hesitant to reveal the specific evidence because they fear it could lead to more people using the same technique. Part of any review policing technique has to have some some security through obscurity in it - if people know exactly what checks Apple is doing to find fraud, they're more likely to find a way around it.
Solution (in my humble opinion): invite a few well-respected community figures like Siracusa, Gruber, Viticci, ... Show them the evidence and let them publicly agree or disagree with the decision that was made, without disclosing the details.
Solution (in my humble opinion): invite a few well-respected community figures like Siracusa, Gruber, Viticci, ... Show them the evidence and let them publicly agree or disagree with the decision that was made, without disclosing the details.
I didn't own the app but some are reporting it's been removed from their Purchases list, so this is affecting innocent customers.
I agree Apple has a right to do what it likes with its store, but situations like this (that've happened before and will no doubt happen again) undermine my confidence in the model.
I think customer that are the ones that support the App Store in the first place have a right to know why software they've bought has been taken away from them. And don't suggest that "it's still on their system and it still works". The App Store is built around the ability to re-download apps and set up new computers quickly without having to back up your software. That's one of the key attractions to the App Store.
A. Being successful in business with good products doesn't mean you're ethical and always follow the rules.
B. Being a software programmer doesn't mean you'd never exploit weaknesses in someone else's software system.
It's entirely possible that Apple is correct and there was 1st party fraudulent activity. You can't dismiss that out of hand simply because the developer says "I didn't do that" and users of the software say "it's a good product".
B. Being a software programmer doesn't mean you'd never exploit weaknesses in someone else's software system.
It's entirely possible that Apple is correct and there was 1st party fraudulent activity. You can't dismiss that out of hand simply because the developer says "I didn't do that" and users of the software say "it's a good product".
Schiller's exact words were " I am told this app was removed due to repeated fraudulent activity". He didn't personally look into it. He asked a minion why the account was banned and was told it was for repeated fraud by the minion. There's no evidence that he looked into it anymore deeply than that.
It could be that there was repeated fraud, or it could be a false positive and the minion was in CYA mode. We don't know yet, although I think that, if the developer is innocent here, the decision will eventually be reversed.
They would probably claw back the money from the dev so you'd be hurting the dev more than Apple.
If I were a developer this is basically a signal to get out of the Apple ecosystem and find another platform to develop for asap.
If in fact the dev did manipulate reviews like Apple says, shouldn't 99% of the apps in the app store be removed?
I read Phil Schiller's comment the same way, "I was told this app was removed .. " really made it sound like he asked someone what happened, they said it was for fraud, so he sent out the mail without going any deeper. Quite possible that Phil Schiller has no clue what Dash is, what a good app it is and how, if you've interacted with the developer at all in the past, it's quite hard to believe he's anything but innocent here.
Unfortunately, now the 'no appeal' mail has come from the top, even when Apple works out they got this one wrong, they may find it hard to row back from it.
So you are suggesting that Apple publicly disclose the details when they pull an app? Even if those details are protected by contract agreement? Even if those details review information that would put Apple at risk for further fraud? Even if those details would put either Apple and/or the developer at risk for possible legal action? I understand why other developers will be concerned when an app is removed and they don't know why, but that does not entitle them to access that information.
We also don't know that there was no recourse. We know the following:
1. The app was pulled
2. No further appeals will be allowed
You'll note that we have NO IDEA if any appeals occurred. Presumably the developer contacted Apple after the App was pulled. Presumably there was an investigation in to the details since Phil Schiller got involved.
Is it possible the scenario played out exactly as you imagine/suspect? Yes. Its also possible that it played out in a completely different fashion, the developer isn't giving all the details to protect their reputation and Apple isn't for legal reasons. We don't have most of the details, we can only speculate. Every is free to have an opinion, but not entitled to assert things as fact which are not.
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Under what law do you presume that Apple is required to disclose the exact reasons? Under what grounds is the developer suing? Have you even bothered to read the developer agreement to see what developers agree to? Are you familiar with relevant case law in the U.S and/or California that might apply? I doubt it, I seriously doubt it.
I'm sorry Apple this is so ridiculously blatant in the App Store by many many many large companies and you terminate a developer of tools? Check out all the customers of companies that specialize in driving downloads from third world countries and paying for 5 star reviews. Why do I know, we did exactly this as an experiment 4 years ago, we paid $10,000 to one of them, our test app went from 150 to 2 overnight. I tracked all of the downloads, all came from Egypt and some Asian countries. When the money ran out two days later the app went back to 150. Not one of these people was a customer of our US only market. Another large company (I don't want to be sued) had several white label versions of the same codebase for its various brands and only the main brand app had high ratings and positive comments (mostly throwaway accounts); the white label versions did not get the same treatment and had mostly lousy comments and ratings. Same codebase. Yet Apple only goes after small companies who don't have fat lawyers.
The problem with Apple in this case is: lack of communication. You are subjected to a computer's decision (apparently) where follow-up questions are being answered by human beings reiterating the computer's decision.
How about a possibility to appeal? Where people can talk to other people?
(Update) Well, since the developer apparently did commit fraud, I feel a bit odd about my statements above. However, I do believe that it would be important to be able to appeal to something or someone (a person) in cases like this. This time it was media pressure, what about other people with not such high-stake programs?
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Absolutely have read the developer agreement. Test the terms of the developer agreement. See if it stands up to scrutiny. Apple and the developer have a commercial arrangement. Take it to court and get the real reason and set precedent.
So basically you just assume that Apple did this on a whim and had no legitimate reason. Yeah. Seems real likely.
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Explain to me the depth of knowledge you have that demonstrates that Apple has not already done all of the due diligence that would have been done during an appeal, before even making this decision?
Phil Schiller mentions "repeated" infractions. Most Apple likely caught wind of this a while ago and began monitoring it, and then took action when no doubt remained.
But yeah, just assume the dev is innocent even though there is no reason to.
Wait, what? Where did you get that information? Perhaps due to my age, I have been buying software in shrink wrapped boxes before these young whippersnappers were born but I find it hard to believe as Mac App Store is relatively new. The fact macs arent entirely sandboxed (for now) but this kind of **** makes my blood boil. Regardless if the guy manipulated ratings (and from it seems he didn't need to), or someone else did to eff with him, then I hope he releases it on Cydia. The fact there is no way to run unsigned code out of the box is wrong. People tend to forget Stevie J never wanted an App Store saying HTML5 webapps was the way to go until Cydia proved them wrong. The fact the App Store is policed for content is certainly apples prerogative but not to allow a third party app store if one wants to use one without jailbreaking certainly should be allowed.
A minion?
Similarly, there's no evidence to support your assertion it was a minion who provided the information. Being a Senior Vice President, more likely the person he talked to would have been a high ranking manager responsible for daily app store/developer operations, and one who likely made the determination to sever the developer's account.
Smart strategy Apple, piss off developers AND keep delaying updates to the hardware that is needed to create new MacOS and iOS apps.
So basically you just assume that Apple did this on a whim and had no legitimate reason. Yeah. Seems real likely.
[doublepost=1475847668][/doublepost]
Explain to me the depth of knowledge you have that demonstrates that Apple has not already done all of the due diligence that would have been done during an appeal, before even making this decision?
Phil Schiller mentions "repeated" infractions. Most Apple likely caught wind of this a while ago and began monitoring it, and then took action when no doubt remained.
But yeah, just assume the dev is innocent even though there is no reason to.
Couldn't agree more.
Clearly this has happened, so the developer is lying. There's no conspiracy here.
I hate developers that purchase fake reviews. You see it everywhere and its a big problem.
"The Bad Man Tipster" is an App that keeps appearing in the UK top 10 charts, its flooded with fake reviews. The app promises winning football betting tips with loads of reviews from 'users' saying they have won lots of money. I'm not sure how this app is even allowed on the app store.
How do we know someone at Apple didnt just have a personal issue with the developer and wanted it shut down? Is that allowed in the developer agreement?
As has been said multiple times, suing Apple would be pointless, since a spot on the App Store is technically a favor they do for you. There's no law that weakens this because Apple engineered it to be the only route, and that would be problematic if so.
Looking at the page for the app https://webcache.googleusercontent..../dash-3-api-docs-snippets./id449589707?mt=12+
We see:
* The app description contains a long list of keywords separated by commas. In Dash's case this is legitimate because it is a list of the technologies Dash provides documentation for, but it could easily be mistaken for keyword spam by a bot. It could even be argued that it *is* keyword spam because Dash itself is not particularly to do with any of these.
* The app's name, "Dash", is easily confused with an endless runner which are apps that commonly use review boosting and keywording, and that are likely to be particularly targeted by Apple because of the pending release of Super Mario Run.
* The app's header contains the names of other well-known apps such as Alfred, TextWrangler, and Xcode. This could easily be seen as search scumming, especially by using the name of an official tool (Xcode)
* The current popular app list in the Developer Tools category shows "Docs for xCode", a competing app without these. It could be this developer who complained.
Looking at the page for the app https://webcache.googleusercontent..../dash-3-api-docs-snippets./id449589707?mt=12+
We see:
* The app description contains a long list of keywords separated by commas. In Dash's case this is legitimate because it is a list of the technologies Dash provides documentation for, but it could easily be mistaken for keyword spam by a bot. It could even be argued that it *is* keyword spam because Dash itself is not particularly to do with any of these.
* The app's name, "Dash", is easily confused with an endless runner which are apps that commonly use review boosting and keywording, and that are likely to be particularly targeted by Apple because of the pending release of Super Mario Run.
* The app's header contains the names of other well-known apps such as Alfred, TextWrangler, and Xcode. This could easily be seen as search scumming, especially by using the name of an official tool (Xcode)
* The current popular app list in the Developer Tools category shows "Docs for xCode", a competing app without these. It could be this developer who complained.