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I switched to Windows 10 in 2016 and across multiple systems not had any issue, nor my 15 year old who inherited a Surface Book. Safe to say that Windows too isn't as bad as some would like to paint.

Current primary notebook, just dropped in another 16GB of RAM, installed software tweaked the settings and it does this;
View attachment 839371 For my current professional needs, I don't need keyboard's that are questionable, CPU's that choke and a stream of excuses...

Q-6

I wish I could add 16 GB of RAM to my MBPs.
 
Soldered RAM isn't an Apple thing anymore. PC manufacturers have been soldering RAM for ages now. Practically most of the XPS line RAM's are soldered. Even worse, most of the time you need to crack open the laptop to find out whether or not you could upgrade because not all manufacturers provide a precise guide what is in the laptop in the first place.

You are looking at it the wrong way though. With macOS, there is no choice at all. Soldered on. Sure, there are plenty of Windows devices that have the same but you have options to go 'bigger' so that you can have user-replaceable components.

You should not need to buy a laptop to crack it open and find out if has replaceable ram, you find that out before you buy...

I could go on and on. In the end, I don't really care if Dave or the other youtubers keep bashing Apple. They have their angle. But don't make it like everything in PC land is like this promised land of perfection.

You call it bashing, only because it does not fit your views. There is no Apple vs PC anymore, they are all PCs, the only difference is the OS.
 
You are looking at it the wrong way though. With macOS, there is no choice at all. Soldered on. Sure, there are plenty of Windows devices that have the same but you have options to go 'bigger' so that you can have user-replaceable components.

You should not need to buy a laptop to crack it open and find out if has replaceable ram, you find that out before you buy...

I was looking at the Lenovo P72. It's really easy to find YouTube reviews where someone takes the thing apart and shows you where you can make changes. If a system comes with a base HDD, then you can be nearly 100% sure that you can replace the HDD with a 2.5 inch SSD. I've never run into a system with a soldered in HDD. The mobile workstations that we're talking about are designed with user-replaceable parts. They have so many bays that are by default, empty. They don't fill them in with solder.

This is reminiscent of my 2008 and 2011 17 inch MacBook Pros. Unfortunately they didn't provide video card spares for the 2011.
 
Here is a repost of HP's original video on the 2018 ZBook 17 G5 (a mobile workstation):


You can take the machine apart like Lego. 5 drive slots etc. It's kind of like those old machines from the early 2000s, for people who still like that kind of laptop (me).
 
Take a large network of creatives who rely on the Finder's features such as Labels, Quick Look, thumbnail support for just about any media format, proper color profile support, etc. Tell them to move to Windows.


You will suicide their whole workflow. You will destroy their efficiency. I challenge you to go right now to send an email to any such company manager, tell them to move to Windows and give up macOS features. Then wait for the reaction.


No Labels in File Explorer, no Quick Look, doesn't accurately support many modern image and video color profiles, no thumbnail support for many common files types such as Photoshop Document (.PSD).

Keep tell me I'm seriously mistaken. If someone like me ever see someone like you in any workplace you gonna get kick straight out the door.

I am sorry but... digitizer support with pen is far more important to many than labels. And if labels are really a thing for someone, as always there are options in Windows: https://www.xyplorer.com/?dark#shot

You see that is one of the main strong point in Windows, you can do what you want and make it what you want. You can even make it look like MacOS: https://www.stardock.com/products/windowblinds/
[doublepost=1559080826][/doublepost]
You think Apple is bad?

Wait till you immerse yourself in the astounding world of PC laptops, especially when things go bump in the night. Say what you will about Apple, they do actually try and fix problems on the products. There is a reason why customer satisfaction is quite high.

Once you go to PC land however...

Microsoft did their best to reign in the craziness, to try and at least have some standards. I don't think they actually wanted to get involved in manufacturing pc, but they had to because whoever does market research for the manufacturers often at times seems to do their research by just listening to a vocal segment of the users.

At one time, almost every company that put out so called gaming PC all backlit their damned laptop with eye gouging RED LED backlight. Now all of them jumped on the RGB bandwagon.

Microsoft did try. Precision trackpad program, signature pc with no bloatware, etc etc. Yet the manufacturers keep on putting out products that matches Apple prices, but with flaws that should not exist in such expensive products. No one using pc laptops I know "loved" their laptop.

Most tolerate it like the would a crazy uncle.

I have yet to see even one PC OEM double down on flaws in the manner of Apple. I have seen flaws and sometime a reluctance to admit to mistakes on the part of PC OEMs. But in the next iteration of the product they fix the issue! Yes there has always been a great deal of variety in the PC world, but there has also always been quality if you paid for it. The whole notion that all PC's were all inferior came from Apple in a desperate attempt to increase market share.
 
I am sorry but... digitizer support with pen is far more important to many than labels. And if labels are really a thing for someone, as always there are options in Windows: https://www.xyplorer.com/?dark#shot

You see that is one of the main strong point in Windows, you can do what you want and make it what you want. You can even make it look like MacOS: https://www.stardock.com/products/windowblinds/
[doublepost=1559080826][/doublepost]

I have yet to see even one PC OEM double down on flaws in the manner of Apple. I have seen flaws and sometime a reluctance to admit to mistakes on the part of PC OEMs. But in the next iteration of the product they fix the issue! Yes there has always been a great deal of variety in the PC world, but there has also always been quality if you paid for it. The whole notion that all PC's were all inferior came from Apple in a desperate attempt to increase market share.

Er, I just tested out a flagship HP workstation laptop, and the screen was a disgrace. The body super heavy and clunky. The finishing was ok but there is no way I would buy it [and I was definitely looking to buy]. Plus I cant return it to any store, and have to buy through third parties as HP website a total rip off. Their I9 is more than the 15” MBP. So nope, I am not buying these arguments anymore.
 
Er, I just tested out a flagship HP workstation laptop, and the screen was a disgrace. The body super heavy and clunky. The finishing was ok but there is no way I would buy it [and I was definitely looking to buy]. Plus I cant return it to any store, and have to buy through third parties as HP website a total rip off. Their I9 is more than the 15” MBP. So nope, I am not buying these arguments anymore.
The thing is, I don't know that it really matters. Go with the same keyboard on the MBP15" if that is what you wish. Me? I went with a hackintosh (that barely sees the mac side anymore) so I could have an actual video card and not pay through the nose.

On the road I switched my MBP 2013 15" to a Surface Pro 2017 and the dang thing is amazing. I can take it anywhere, take notes with the pen, use it on airplanes like an iPad, still have a full OS. I think you might be surprised and how few people really think macs are worth it anymore (and I owned everything from an iBook to an OG macbook, etc.)
 
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The thing is, I don't know that it really matters. Go with the same keyboard on the MBP15" if that is what you wish. Me? I went with a hackintosh (that barely sees the mac side anymore) so I could have an actual video card and not pay through the nose.

On the road I switched my MBP 2013 15" to a Surface Pro 2017 and the dang thing is amazing. I can take it anywhere, take notes with the pen, use it on airplanes like an iPad, still have a full OS. I think you might be surprised and how few people really think macs are worth it anymore (and I owned everything from an iBook to an OG macbook, etc.

The wealth extraction process for iPhones found its limits with the X. I think that it is getting there with Macs. I think that Apple has been pushing the costs on Macs to partially offset revenue losses on their phones. Ultimately this is a losing game without real innovation.

AAPL closed around $178 today, very far off from the high of $230.
 
I wish I could add 16 GB of RAM to my MBPs.

The greater "cardinal sin" is the SSD with no ability to remove or extract stored data in the event of a failure, let alone the possibility of any expansion. Simply a vehicle to force upgrades with excessive margins, paid cloud services and reduce production cost...

Q-6
 
I am sorry but... digitizer support with pen is far more important to many than labels.

True that, especially Wacom support. Loads of complaints out there too about how the Windows builtin pen software interferes with Wacom's driver and produces all sorts of quirks when you use it in applications.
I had my fill of that in W7 already and it took quite a bit of registry hacking and preferences to tame the behavior and keep it that way across OS updates (I've now set on a very old version that works for that purpose but I'd be crazy to hook that up to the net). I shudder to think about W10 and its enforced updates in this context.

I can live with Windows if it's strictly for running a set of work-related applications in a fixed configuration and with very restricted network access but I could never accept it again as a general purpose OS the way I use macOS - OS updates, web-access, installing and deinstalling applications all the time and all that.
 
Lenovo is a great brand as I posted in another thread, I paid 2286 for my Thinkpad which would have run me in the 4500+ range on the MBP. Maybe not half but the price difference is large. I get a better keyboard, replaceable components, a higher resolution touch screen

If you like Macs, that's great, but don't dismiss the competitors with a wave of a hand, because they simply do not have the number of issues that that we've had to deal with on the MBP over the years.

This is quite true it's absurd the amount of issues and underpowered hardware specs we got since 2016 redesign.
 
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The greater "cardinal sin" is the SSD with no ability to remove or extract stored data in the event of a failure, let alone the possibility of any expansion. Simply a vehicle to force upgrades with excessive margins, paid cloud services and reduce production cost...

Q-6
Earlier models had some sort of port/connector built into the logic board, so an apple genius could try to retrieve the data. They have since removed that, and so there's no way to pull the data.
 
This is quite true it's absurd the amount of issues and underpowered hardware specs we got since 2016 redesign.

I think that all of the laptop makers would like to price like Apple but they live in a competitive world. Apple, to a certain degree, doesn't. But Kraft-Heinz, Gillette and many other brands have fallen on hard times because they thought that they could keep raising prices or making small packages or otherwise continue to extract more from their customers when their products weren't all that different from commodity producers.

Kraft-Heinz has had a stunning loss of value - over 60% in under three years. These guys were the kings of the packaged foods universe several years ago.

http://schrts.co/djpUPsvi
[doublepost=1559132687][/doublepost]
The greater "cardinal sin" is the SSD with no ability to remove or extract stored data in the event of a failure, let alone the possibility of any expansion. Simply a vehicle to force upgrades with excessive margins, paid cloud services and reduce production cost...

Q-6

You really need to make sure that you have reliable Time Machine backups.

I recently added a 512 GB SD card to my MacBook Pro and I am no longer pining for a 1 TB or 2 TB model. I will upgrade to a 1 TB SD card when the prices become reasonable. 512 GB is about $100, 1 TB is $400. I have a lot of files that I seldom need access to and I don't need fast access so the SD card is the perfect solution to cheap storage without having to deal with driver and firmware issues.
 
True that, especially Wacom support. Loads of complaints out there too about how the Windows builtin pen software interferes with Wacom's driver and produces all sorts of quirks when you use it in applications.
I had my fill of that in W7 already and it took quite a bit of registry hacking and preferences to tame the behavior and keep it that way across OS updates (I've now set on a very old version that works for that purpose but I'd be crazy to hook that up to the net). I shudder to think about W10 and its enforced updates in this context.

I can live with Windows if it's strictly for running a set of work-related applications in a fixed configuration and with very restricted network access but I could never accept it again as a general purpose OS the way I use macOS - OS updates, web-access, installing and deinstalling applications all the time and all that.
I have never had any of these problems. I admit that I am using N-Trig tech in my SP2017, but literally zero driver problems with the whole thing--including the pen. I find the way they continue to neuter what once was the best 'nix in Mac to be much worse.
[doublepost=1559134053][/doublepost]
I think that all of the laptop makers would like to price like Apple but they live in a competitive world. Apple, to a certain degree, doesn't. But Kraft-Heinz, Gillette and many other brands have fallen on hard times because they thought that they could keep raising prices or making small packages or otherwise continue to extract more from their customers when their products weren't all that different from commodity producers.

Kraft-Heinz has had a stunning loss of value - over 60% in under three years. These guys were the kings of the packaged foods universe several years ago.

http://schrts.co/djpUPsvi
[doublepost=1559132687][/doublepost]

You really need to make sure that you have reliable Time Machine backups.

I recently added a 512 GB SD card to my MacBook Pro and I am no longer pining for a 1 TB or 2 TB model. I will upgrade to a 1 TB SD card when the prices become reasonable. 512 GB is about $100, 1 TB is $400. I have a lot of files that I seldom need access to and I don't need fast access so the SD card is the perfect solution to cheap storage without having to deal with driver and firmware issues.
I was going to ask where you put your SD card, but then I saw your sig. Never mind.
 
I think that all of the laptop makers would like to price like Apple but they live in a competitive world. Apple, to a certain degree, doesn't. But Kraft-Heinz, Gillette and many other brands have fallen on hard times because they thought that they could keep raising prices or making small packages or otherwise continue to extract more from their customers when their products weren't all that different from commodity producers.

Kraft-Heinz has had a stunning loss of value - over 60% in under three years. These guys were the kings of the packaged foods universe several years ago.

http://schrts.co/djpUPsvi
[doublepost=1559132687][/doublepost]

You really need to make sure that you have reliable Time Machine backups.

I recently added a 512 GB SD card to my MacBook Pro and I am no longer pining for a 1 TB or 2 TB model. I will upgrade to a 1 TB SD card when the prices become reasonable. 512 GB is about $100, 1 TB is $400. I have a lot of files that I seldom need access to and I don't need fast access so the SD card is the perfect solution to cheap storage without having to deal with driver and firmware issues.

No SD card reader for MBP, so that adds up to yet another dongle. I have a 512 microSD Card installed in my secondary notebook. My primary notebook has duel drives, both being user upgradable, as will likely the next as this I find is a significant benefit.

Another one of the problems is Apple has now removed the retrieval port on the logic board, nor is it unusual to have data restrictions built into contracts that prohibit any sensitive data being passes to 3rd parties. One of the reasons why the MBP is not suitable for my professional needs and likely others.

Frankly I find Apple's actions to be mostly hostile towards the customer. Apple has removed all possible upgrades paths to serve themselves, forcing inhouse upgrades with excessive margin, they look to block any 3rd party avenue for repair so that Apple and Apple alone controls the environment, offering only expensive modular repairs, effectively a monopoly and it shows...

On OS X I always used CCC or SuperDuper for back up as Time Machine has let me down in the past and not the best for system images which is what I want.

Q-6
 
No SD card reader for MBP, so that adds up to yet another dongle. I have a 512 microSD Card installed in my secondary notebook. My primary notebook has duel drives, both being user upgradable, as will likely the next as this I find is a significant benefit.

Another one of the problems is Apple has now removed the retrieval port on the logic board, nor is it unusual to have data restrictions built into contracts that prohibit any sensitive data being passes to 3rd parties. One of the reasons why the MBP is not suitable for my professional needs and likely others.

Frankly I find Apple's actions to be mostly hostile towards the customer. Apple has removed all possible upgrades paths to serve themselves, forcing inhouse upgrades with excessive margin, they look to block any 3rd party avenue for repair so that Apple and Apple alone controls the environment, offering only expensive modular repairs, effectively a monopoly and it shows...

On OS X I always used CCC or SuperDuper for back up as Time Machine has let me down in the past and not the best for system images which is what I want.

Q-6
YES! CCC or SuperDuper are both WAY better. Far superior to Time Machine.
 
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I am sorry but... digitizer support with pen is far more important to many than labels. And if labels are really a thing for someone, as always there are options in Windows: https://www.xyplorer.com/?dark#shot

You see that is one of the main strong point in Windows, you can do what you want and make it what you want. You can even make it look like MacOS: https://www.stardock.com/products/windowblinds/
[doublepost=1559080826][/doublepost]

I have yet to see even one PC OEM double down on flaws in the manner of Apple. I have seen flaws and sometime a reluctance to admit to mistakes on the part of PC OEMs. But in the next iteration of the product they fix the issue! Yes there has always been a great deal of variety in the PC world, but there has also always been quality if you paid for it. The whole notion that all PC's were all inferior came from Apple in a desperate attempt to increase market share.


Lol

Digital pen more important than Labels? There are companies, millions of employees worldwide, you take Labels away from them their business dies. Across every department it keeps their projects in sync if they are creatives, developers, editors or even office docs. They would roll over within one week. Employees would go mad trying to understand the status of shares folders and files. Within a few months they would be a dead business, that’s how vital Labels has become over 30 years.

Digitalizer Pen are aplenty on the Mac in case you hadn’t noticed. Apple had a pen product in the late 70s. Pen support came to Macs when PCs were still using FOS. Ink was on macOS since years ago. The Apple Pencil is a technology marvel with massive potential.

FFS I can’t believe I have to answer such an ignorant post. Lol.
 
Across every department it keeps their projects in sync if they are creatives, developers, editors or even office docs. They would simply die within one week. Within a few months they would be a dead business, that’s how vital Labels has become over 30 years.
As an engineer that's what I suspected for a long time, employees in the creative field are needed only to keep the power switch on.
 
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Lol

Digital pen more important than Labels? There are companies, millions of employees worldwide, you take Labels away from them their business dies. Across every department it keeps their projects in sync if they are creatives, developers, editors or even office docs. They would roll over within one week. Employees would go mad trying to understand the status of shares folders and files. Within a few months they would be a dead business, that’s how vital Labels has become over 30 years.

Digitalizer Pen are aplenty on the Mac in case you hadn’t noticed. Apple had a pen product in the late 70s. Pen support came to Macs when PCs were still using FOS. Ink was on macOS since years ago. The Apple Pencil is a technology marvel with massive potential.

FFS I can’t believe I have to answer such an ignorant post. Lol.

LOL labels.

I’m a creative who also writes code as part of an engineering team. The only time I might use labels is to mark a file temporarily. If I suggested using labels as a means of keeping a project in sync I’d be rightfully laughed out of the office.

In group up land we use version control.

And yes, I’d take Apple actually adding a digital pen to their computers over any poxy labels.
 
It appears labels are revolutionary. Strange I haven't seen them used anywhere, but apparently, millions of employees use them. I would like to visit those million of employees and see what they use labels for, and would ask them why are they using labels instead of anything else? Maybe some label fan could point me to a company so dependant on labels, since I don't know any company that uses them?
 
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