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Whats up with this french site... Ive never even heard of it until the photos and the PDF surfaced. Besides i think he's making the date up he said. "there is a good chance" and didn't even metion a source unnamed or otherwise. Some thing adout this website smells fishy to me. His style kinda reminds me of the macaddict.com rumor generator. (which is very funny go try it some time) IF this Pmac ships i wouldn't adopt it right away remeber the first G4 tower fiasco?:( So wait a month and see how things play out.
 
Re: DDR is in

Originally posted by DeusOmnis
Concerning the DDR connection between the ram and the cpu:

Apple doesnt need to invent this technology, it already exists in PC's. To copy someone else's deal is not exactly that hard. Apple wants to be competedative with the PC market, in order to do that their systems NEED to have the newest technologies and best parts. This is why a mac is more expensive than a PC. PM's come with a t base 1000 Ethernet port. NOTHING runs that fast, Apple is just trying to be the best, and in doing that the cost of the computer goes up a couple hundred dollars.
You, apparently, are new here and either don't know much about the PPC chip or Apple's motherboards -OR- you are flame bait, trolling for an arguement.

You do understand that Mac's do not run on AMD or Intel chips, right?

And about the Gigabit Ethernet, what's your point when you say "NOTHING" runs that fast? You aren't thinking it runs faster than a 133Mhz system bus are you? Don't confuse GigaBytes per second to GigaBits per second.
 
Whatever the case, I think it's going to be interesting. The way I look at it, we'll see a nice increase in speed, no matter what path is taken.

If we only see 1GHz computers, I might still be happy. If those computers sport 4MB L3 caches, 166MHz system buses, and DDR memory, it may not be so bad. The performance increase might still be significant.

If we see faster Apollos, that isn't too bad either. If we saw Apollos at 1.2 or 1.33GHz that sported DDR memory (just like the Xserve), I don't think that many would be too disappointed.

If we get 1.2GHz 7470s, I'll be happier yet. With 512K L2 cache, maybe 4MB L3 cache, 166MHz system bus, and DDR memory, there isn't a thing about this possibility that I don't like.

If we get 1.4GHz or higher 7470s, I'll be whistlin' Dixie. That sucker would cook. Obviously, we'd see the largest difference in speed with this route.

All-in-all, I like our possibilities. The first two options might give us roughly a 10%-20% boost in speed. The third possiblity would yield a significant increase, and the fourth option would kick arse.
 
The 5th is way too early guys...c'mon Apple usually waits longer than a week after an expo to release new products.

I think they'll unveil it on the 12th or perhaps later, and by the time they ship jaguar will be out.
 
G4X4? Why not?

thinking about the rumored hugeness of the cooling system for the coming machines makes me wonder why quad-processor macs aren't a reality?

too expensive?
too complicated? hardwarewise or softwarewise?

or is it, as some of the posts in this thread imply simply because the bottleneck has been memory/bus speed, so there's little gained from adding the extra procs?

can anyone shed a little light on this subject for me?
 
confused...

somebody clear this up for me...is there or is there not a G4 chip that can support true DDR? not like the XServes but with a DDR bus also? is this even a possibility with any of the current chips? from what i understand the current use of DDR(as in the XServe)doesn't yield a very significant speed increase. humor me for i am but a humble artist and i know not how the guts work;)
 
two weeks

They should announce the new G4 two weeks before Jaguar releases...they will take order two weeks in advance..and ship it with Jag...on the 24th...
 
Re: confused...

Originally posted by tjwett
somebody clear this up for me...is there or is there not a G4 chip that can support true DDR? not like the XServes but with a DDR bus also? is this even a possibility with any of the current chips? from what i understand the current use of DDR(as in the XServe)doesn't yield a very significant speed increase. humor me for i am but a humble artist and i know not how the guts work;)
There is a rumored G4+ (sorry, don't know the actual, 7xxx chip number) that has DDR support done in a similar fashion to how AMD added it to their Athlons. The key word here is rumored; nobody has confirmed it as far as I know.

The XServer's implementation sounds like a kludge, but recent benchmarks show it to be quite a performer.

Link to benchmarks on Xinet.com
Link to story about them on MacCentral.com
 
Originally posted by iGAV


Haven't some new macs in the past shipped with the latest OS installed before one could purchase it or D/L it off the Apple site??

Either way... new PowerMacs are coming next month.... either at the start or at the end..... a couple of weeks really doesn't make much of a difference....... :)

The Apple Store here in Atlanta has the 17" iMac running Jaguar as we speak.

Neither of course are available to take home of course.
 
Originally posted by thedude
I hate to do this to everyone, but it's something that's been bugging me.

why all the cooling? g4's don't put off that much heat so the fan and the kitchen sink....er...heatsink seem like overkill.

maybe because there are more procs going in there...It kinda seemed like there would be room under that block to put 4 procs

I don't think it's likely, but possible. Apple asked what the 3d community wanted. A rackmount server (x serve) and dual and quad proc machines. Well apple delivered on the x serve.

hmmm...

:p


I think your right, im feeling the same way.......who knows though
it would be great wouldnt it......that should turn some heads.
 
Re: Re: DDR is in

Originally posted by eric_n_dfw

You, apparently, are new here and either don't know much about the PPC chip or Apple's motherboards -OR- you are flame bait, trolling for an arguement.

You do understand that Mac's do not run on AMD or Intel chips, right?

And about the Gigabit Ethernet, what's your point when you say "NOTHING" runs that fast? You aren't thinking it runs faster than a 133Mhz system bus are you? Don't confuse GigaBytes per second to GigaBits per second.

Why is it everytime someone starts this arguement they're trolls?

I completely agree with the GBEthernet part. Not many people use this yet. But what about DDR, ATA/133 (for larger drive support), and even, shudder, USB2. People might actually use these things, and they're not that much more expensive to implement.

Hate to tell you, but Macs DO use standard PC technology. SDRAM, IDE, USB, FW, AGP, PCI.

True, they use slightly different parts (for their RISC CPUs, and proprietary stuff), but it's more or less the same type of technology. And different drivers. But many "Wintel" components can be used in Macs. I know, I've done it.

Let's just hope Apple actually does something for their next PRO lines.

It's my money, I'd rather have OS X than any M$ Windows varient, and I can b*tch all I want about not wanting to spend that much on yesterday's technology.

ATA/66???
 
4x G4

apple used to offer 3 desktop modells and a "ultimate" one which is just fully loaded with all the options.

but with highend pro applications like Shake or Maya for OSX. there is a market for a really fast and expensive machine.

I think it is possible that there will be a new highend desktop modell for people who use to buy SGI stations for >$15k
 
Re: About that DDR...

Originally posted by ddtlm
And for today's dose of harsh reality, I would like to point out that there is no reason outside of the usual baseless rumors to believe that the G4 itself will be connected to a DDR front side bus. I've said it before, and I'd like to repeat that it is highly unlikely that Apple made the Xserve's chipset which uses DDR RAM and a SDR FSB for only the Xserve.

maybe that huge heat sink has something to do with a work around
apple engineerd to avoid the potential problem you discribe above.

But i wouldnt doubt it if apple released the first version of DDR
computers with the limitations described above......didnt they
release the G4 before it was really ready for primetime..?
About a month later (or more i dont remember) they released
the G4 system that was an optimized version of the first.....
I can easily see apple doing this.....
 
Originally posted by Joshlew
Do you think there's any chance of dual 1.6Ghz G4's?
Please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, PLEASE!!!!!!!

Please indeed. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

I say 1.2 at BEST. But the PC2700 sounds good enough to me. :)
 
beatle888:

Hum, I'm not sure how you see a huge heatsink as a workaround for a DDR FSB. A huge heatsink would work very well with a huge, slow fan, resulting in a very quiet machine which the current G4 towers are not. Nothing to do with DDR though.

And yes, Apple certainly did release the Xserve with DDR 266 (133x2) RAM and a 133mhz FSB, this is a known fact.

eric_n_dfw:

I want to see some benchmarks of "normal usuage" and games. The current benchmarks are too few and too specialized to mean anything to most people.

tjwett:

No current G4 chip supports a DDR FSB, although Apple has made a chipset that supports DDR RAM. This means that when the CPU is reading/writing to/from the RAM, it still has to travel down a single data rate FSB which elliminates much of the benefit of DDR. In general usuage, a well-benchmarked VIA chipset for Pentium III's which was also SDR/DDR in this fassion showed a 0% to 5% general performance increase over it's SDR/SDR relative. I do not expect much more from general use on Apple's Xserve chipset, although certain benchmarks do go very fast. These benchmarks are no more relavent to most of us that the Photoshop backoffs are.

esome:

The hugeness of the cooling system could aslo simply be for a much more quiet computer. A huge heatsink with a huge, slow-spinning fan just breezes away the heat with very very little noise. This is much more plausible than quad G4's.

I am not sure if quad G4's are even possible, but if they are, realize that the shared FSB would become a major performance bottleneck.

DeusOmnis:

Yeah, Apple wishes they could just lift the Athlon's FSB and make it work with their stuff. That's not the real world though, for one thing, the FSB must be matched to the processor, which means that no DDR FSB can exist with a G4 that supports it.

SPG:

Regardless of what Apple or Moto wants, CPU's are not designed on the backs of envelopes and rolled out the next day. Major designs take years, small ones take no less than many many months, and the fabs need months to get a production line started after the CPU is finsihed. It does not matter if Apple is desperate and their customers are mad, Moto cannot be expected to roll out a CPU for six months and then brush it aside. It took them far longer to design it and get production ramped up. A DDR-FSB-supporting G4 around February would not surprise me, but one in a month would.
 
Re: Re: 10.2 is included

Originally posted by gopher


AHEM!!!!

How is this "free" possible if:

http://www.apple.com/macosx/uptodate/

says:

" Apple would like to give you the opportunity to upgrade to Mac OS X v10.2 “Jaguar.” Customers who purchase a qualifying new Macintosh computer on or after July 17, 2002, that does not have Mac OS X v10.2 “Jaguar” included can upgrade to Mac OS X v10.2 “Jaguar” for US$19.95.* See “Terms and Conditions” for program details."

Obviously there will be some machines that won't have a free 10.2 after Macworld NY. July 17th was Macworld NY. Your statement makes no sense sir. You sure you weren't talking to the Apple Store in Washington Apple country?

AHEM!!!

You're obviously new to the Mac. Any time Apple says "free" they really mean "free after 19.95 shipping charge". This isn't by far new.
 
I'm from the PC world, so please forgive my ignorance.

Why does the retail release of Jaguar have *anything* to do with the anouncment or even shipping of new PowerMacs.

Apple said that Jaguar will ship on Aug 24, that is fact.

If new PM is released on the 12th, or even if it is avaliable for immediate delivery on the 12th, how does that effect the retail shipments of Jaguar?

It doesn't.
 
Re: DDR is in

Originally posted by DeusOmnis
PM's come with a t base 1000 Ethernet port. NOTHING runs that fast, Apple is just trying to be the best, and in doing that the cost of the computer goes up a couple hundred dollars.

I am using Gigabit right now. All of our routers have Gigabit connections to our servers. Lots of people are using Gigabit. Lots of people don't have Gigabit @ home, that is true though.

Adding Gigabit ethernet doesn't cost a couple of hundred dollars. I would bet it only costs Apple $50-$70 more than a 10 megabit controller. If even that.
 
Re: Re: 10.2 is included

Originally posted by gopher


AHEM!!!!

How is this "free" possible if:

http://www.apple.com/macosx/uptodate/

says:

" Apple would like to give you the opportunity to upgrade to Mac OS X v10.2 “Jaguar.” Customers who purchase a qualifying new Macintosh computer on or after July 17, 2002, that does not have Mac OS X v10.2 “Jaguar” included can upgrade to Mac OS X v10.2 “Jaguar” for US$19.95.* See “Terms and Conditions” for program details."

Obviously there will be some machines that won't have a free 10.2 after Macworld NY. July 17th was Macworld NY. Your statement makes no sense sir. You sure you weren't talking to the Apple Store in Washington Apple country?

Just like 10.1, the 19.99 is for shipping on the Cd (inflated, sure, but normal) If you go to a retail store or even an apple authorized dealer, they'll just hand you he disks.
 
RADEON 7500 in new PMs?????????

Somewhat off topic, but hey...
Here is some news:
--------
ATI Gets Radeon 7000,7500 Pacts For New Desktop PCs -2

07/25/2002 08:15

John Moritsugu, Dow Jones Newswires; 416-306-2100

MARKHAM, Ont. -(Dow Jones)- ATI Technologies Inc.'s (ATYT) RADEON 7000 and RADEON 7500 graphics boards have been selected for various desktop PCs.

In a press release, the company said the RADEON 7000 will be featured in the IBM NetVista M Series, the HP Compaq Presario 6000 series and the Dell Precision Workstation 340, while the RADEON 7500 has been chosen for Apple's PowerMac G4, Hewlett-Packard's EVO-310, Fujitsu's FMV-DESKPOWER and Dell's Optiplex GX260.
---------
This suggests that the next powermac will be a G4 (no surprise), and will have the RADEON 7500 graphics card (what up?).
Currently the Radeon 7500 is only in the low end educational model, while the high end pms have the NVIDIA GeForce4 MX.
This news is a bit bizzare IMHO.
 
Originally posted by ddtlm
beatle888:

Hum, I'm not sure how you see a huge heatsink as a workaround for a DDR FSB. A huge heatsink would work very well with a huge, slow fan, resulting in a very quiet machine which the current G4 towers are not. Nothing to do with DDR though.


Hey dont worry about it........I really dont know what
im talking about when it comes to hardware......I just
thought that it might have something to do with how
they handled the DDR/FSB issue.........thanks for replying
on the subject as i THOUGHT I was on to something : ) :p
 
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