Oddly enough, I edited my post before you quoted it and responded to it! Because if you look at my post as quoted in your post, it's the same as it is now!
There's no need to make false accusations.
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Dell DJ Price and Specs?
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Oddly enough, I edited my post before you quoted it and responded to it! Because if you look at my post as quoted in your post, it's the same as it is now!
There's no need to make false accusations.
I'm making this a separate post so you can't make another false accusation.
Your post, quoting my post, is timestamped thusly:
10-26-2003 05:39 PM
And my post says:
Last edited by Phil Of Mac on 10-26-2003 at 04:28 PM
My post was edited over an hour before you replied to it!
Now I hope you will apologize to me.
Your post, quoting my post, is timestamped thusly:
10-26-2003 05:39 PM
And my post says:
Last edited by Phil Of Mac on 10-26-2003 at 04:28 PM
My post was edited over an hour before you replied to it!
Now I hope you will apologize to me.
well, the drive in the iPod is twice the size of the iBook's and remember that this drive is a 1.8" drive, not 2.5" that makes it VERY expensive, especailly at high drive sizes, so i think that comparison is unfair. However, i think the battery life could improve, more functionaluty could be added, and the os should be opened up to developers. This lack of accessories is getting rediculous
poor man's ipod
so it should do OK in the 'poor man' market.
I don't know why you all are bagging on the DJ, but it looks like Dell did a decent job of ripping off on the iPod. Sure iPod is better in a lot of ways, but there are a plenty of people who can't afford $300 on an mp3 player. For them, the DJ will be a decent option.
so it should do OK in the 'poor man' market.
I don't know why you all are bagging on the DJ, but it looks like Dell did a decent job of ripping off on the iPod. Sure iPod is better in a lot of ways, but there are a plenty of people who can't afford $300 on an mp3 player. For them, the DJ will be a decent option.
Cost is irrelevant here because of WOM. Apple wins this one hands down. As for the 16 hour battery life, my bet is that will get an asterisk. Dell will likely sell a battery adapter like Belkin's that will attach to the DJ and allow you to put in AAs, just like the Belkin extender. I believe 4 AA last for something like 12 hours. Maybe they'll just have an external battery you can buy.
I also think Apple will have a big iPod revision in January:
$299 20GB iPod
$399 40GB iPod
$499 60GB iPod
Oh, and just one more thing....
$99 - 5GB iPod with some limitations (primarily only an MP3 player - limited ability for additional storage). If Apple goes 20, 40, 60 then a $99 5GB machine doesn't jeopardize the rest. Maybe Bluetooth on the 40 & 60.
I also think Apple will have a big iPod revision in January:
$299 20GB iPod
$399 40GB iPod
$499 60GB iPod
Oh, and just one more thing....
$99 - 5GB iPod with some limitations (primarily only an MP3 player - limited ability for additional storage). If Apple goes 20, 40, 60 then a $99 5GB machine doesn't jeopardize the rest. Maybe Bluetooth on the 40 & 60.
iPod battery
The iPod battery is my only problem. Compared to all the other options, the iPod looks pretty crappy. Apple used to tout the 10 hour battery as a good thing. Now they're down to 8 and the competition has 16!
The iPod battery is my only problem. Compared to all the other options, the iPod looks pretty crappy. Apple used to tout the 10 hour battery as a good thing. Now they're down to 8 and the competition has 16!
Re: iPod battery
Hmm, it's funny how the people who say this never actually use one. Apple lowered it down to 8 because the smaller form factor advantages cause larger sails then another couple hours of battery life.
There are auto adapters and battery packs for the few who need the extra life. The prototypical instance where I needed extra battery life was a car trip and I had a power adapter for that. The people who actually need more than 8 hours outside a few places are very few.
If you need it, there are other players out there as well as an aftermarket in 1G and 2G iPods and a healthy and growing 3rd party peripherals market. While from a style standpoint, I wish Apple came out with their own peripherals, there are advantages to having companies like Belkin make them (leverage their supply chain and channel advantages) which seem overlooked.
It's funny how the discussion centers around Apple's weaknesses and not around Dell's. Even assuming the $260 after rebate is correct, this is not the retail channel price. Honestly, how many people are going to Dell to save $40 for a knock off (assuming they return the rebate)? How many people buy a Zen with a new Windows PC? I see a company whose advantage is a better supply chain (cheaper price) which really doesn't count for squat in this market. This isn't a PC here, this is an consumer appliance.
Ever use a Media Center PC and a TiVo (I have)? After about 10 days you realize why this Media Center has been a big money loser and a pathetic niche market. It looks great on paper, but even Apple's famed integration can't make a computer have the manual-down drop-dead ease-of-use as a TiVo and even if they could people don't want to put their computer next to their entertainment center.
I wonder about some of you. Go to an electronics store with a good selection. You can already get sub $300 hard drive players with large battery life: Creative, Archos, etc. Dell's offering is unimpressive at best and I feel sorry for the poor kid whose parent buys them it with their Dell. Because a smart kid will be savvy enough to scum an iPod on educational discount at a much better price and won't get ridiculed by friends for having a cheap knock off.
OTOH, nobody is going to make fun of him for buying a Dell PC or notebook. In that situation, it's the Mac user who has to get all defensive about his purchase.
That is why, when Apple loses iPod marketshare to someone, it won't be to Dell.
Hmm, it's funny how the people who say this never actually use one. Apple lowered it down to 8 because the smaller form factor advantages cause larger sails then another couple hours of battery life.
There are auto adapters and battery packs for the few who need the extra life. The prototypical instance where I needed extra battery life was a car trip and I had a power adapter for that. The people who actually need more than 8 hours outside a few places are very few.
If you need it, there are other players out there as well as an aftermarket in 1G and 2G iPods and a healthy and growing 3rd party peripherals market. While from a style standpoint, I wish Apple came out with their own peripherals, there are advantages to having companies like Belkin make them (leverage their supply chain and channel advantages) which seem overlooked.
It's funny how the discussion centers around Apple's weaknesses and not around Dell's. Even assuming the $260 after rebate is correct, this is not the retail channel price. Honestly, how many people are going to Dell to save $40 for a knock off (assuming they return the rebate)? How many people buy a Zen with a new Windows PC? I see a company whose advantage is a better supply chain (cheaper price) which really doesn't count for squat in this market. This isn't a PC here, this is an consumer appliance.
Ever use a Media Center PC and a TiVo (I have)? After about 10 days you realize why this Media Center has been a big money loser and a pathetic niche market. It looks great on paper, but even Apple's famed integration can't make a computer have the manual-down drop-dead ease-of-use as a TiVo and even if they could people don't want to put their computer next to their entertainment center.
I wonder about some of you. Go to an electronics store with a good selection. You can already get sub $300 hard drive players with large battery life: Creative, Archos, etc. Dell's offering is unimpressive at best and I feel sorry for the poor kid whose parent buys them it with their Dell. Because a smart kid will be savvy enough to scum an iPod on educational discount at a much better price and won't get ridiculed by friends for having a cheap knock off.
OTOH, nobody is going to make fun of him for buying a Dell PC or notebook. In that situation, it's the Mac user who has to get all defensive about his purchase.
That is why, when Apple loses iPod marketshare to someone, it won't be to Dell.
Re: poor man's ipod
Well for those who want a cheaper Ipod you can buy one used or refurbed for under $200, and it would probably still be better than the first offerings by the competition.
Maybe you were simplifying but the ipod is more than an mp3 player, but yeah not everybody can afford one
daniel
Well for those who want a cheaper Ipod you can buy one used or refurbed for under $200, and it would probably still be better than the first offerings by the competition.
Maybe you were simplifying but the ipod is more than an mp3 player, but yeah not everybody can afford one
daniel
Re: Re: Re: The DJ is no iPod and never will be.
You should hear the reactions when I call comcast for e-mail tech support.
I have to explain the diff between silicon and silicone to a number of techs who were laughing at the name. I'm a tech not a pervert.
You should hear the reactions when I call comcast for e-mail tech support.
I have to explain the diff between silicon and silicone to a number of techs who were laughing at the name. I'm a tech not a pervert.
You aren't going to see a $99 iPod unless Apple eats a major chunk of the device cost which wouldnt be totally out of the realm of possibilities. Vid game console manufacturers do it all the time with the games being the bread and butter of their market. A 5GB drive, retail costs aprox $200 Lets assume for the sake of argument that they can somehow get it for $100 in bulk, that still requires the purchase of a ARM CPU, LCD, firewire controller, battery, memory, etc. I'd personally say $199 is more of a realistic price point.
iPod
Apple is ahead marketing wise and not holding back. The only mistake Apple made was that at one point Apple allowed Dell to resell the iPod. Dell saw the sales rate through their own store and decided it would make sense to take it on-house. So they are betting that they'll be able to sell their own player by virtue of sellin it to the exclusion of the iPod on there own store. At this point, though, Apple already has the mind share and they are reinforcing it with their heavy advertisements. It is both a name recognition and must have factor for what is considered a luxury item. So the difference in price of a dollars will not have a major impact. Unless Dell decides to dump it on the market and use it as a loss leader, but I don't know the anti-trust laws on product dumping.
Apple has a lead and has shown the desire to compete. I think they will try to protect their pricing while upping storage amounts and bundling in add-ons if the competition gets hot. That is until the 4th generation iPod, hopefully come January.
Apple is ahead marketing wise and not holding back. The only mistake Apple made was that at one point Apple allowed Dell to resell the iPod. Dell saw the sales rate through their own store and decided it would make sense to take it on-house. So they are betting that they'll be able to sell their own player by virtue of sellin it to the exclusion of the iPod on there own store. At this point, though, Apple already has the mind share and they are reinforcing it with their heavy advertisements. It is both a name recognition and must have factor for what is considered a luxury item. So the difference in price of a dollars will not have a major impact. Unless Dell decides to dump it on the market and use it as a loss leader, but I don't know the anti-trust laws on product dumping.
Apple has a lead and has shown the desire to compete. I think they will try to protect their pricing while upping storage amounts and bundling in add-ons if the competition gets hot. That is until the 4th generation iPod, hopefully come January.
In this debate about one music player vs the other I can't help thinking what will set Apple apart more than tech specs will be advertising. Unless the likes of Toshiba, Dell, et al can rival the marketing blitz of Apple who obviously has a lot riding on the future success of the iPod, I don't see any real competition.
Don't underestimate the power of advertising in the land grab for market share that is taking place in the digital music player market right now.
Grrr....
I wish companies like MS and Dell would innovate rather than copy Apple like a dumb jock during finals.
Between MS sudden love of brushed metal to this thing, damnit Michael you're no better than that jock furiously copying over the smart kid's shoulder.
And can someone answer me a question, if Dell is named for Michael Dell why is their logo a big E?
My iPod could beat the snot out of this thing. Now it's kicking sand in its face. Bad iPod! Bad!
No more caffine for me.
And another thing: the Dell will surely either be larger, have an extra battery pack, or they're using the same sort of legalese they use to describe their laptops battery life.
Also likely, the Dell won't have the sound quality that the iPod does, that equalizer sucks up a lot of juice. Futhermore, the iPod can get more than 8 hours on a single charge you just need to fiddle with it some. Read the manual.
As for one poster noting they'll keep an open mind, I am too, but I find it highly unlikely that Dell will manage to do anything beyond the usual dog and pony show they're so famous for.
Dude, you're getting a Dell.
Oh dear god, why?
I wish companies like MS and Dell would innovate rather than copy Apple like a dumb jock during finals.
Between MS sudden love of brushed metal to this thing, damnit Michael you're no better than that jock furiously copying over the smart kid's shoulder.
And can someone answer me a question, if Dell is named for Michael Dell why is their logo a big E?
My iPod could beat the snot out of this thing. Now it's kicking sand in its face. Bad iPod! Bad!
No more caffine for me.
And another thing: the Dell will surely either be larger, have an extra battery pack, or they're using the same sort of legalese they use to describe their laptops battery life.
Also likely, the Dell won't have the sound quality that the iPod does, that equalizer sucks up a lot of juice. Futhermore, the iPod can get more than 8 hours on a single charge you just need to fiddle with it some. Read the manual.
As for one poster noting they'll keep an open mind, I am too, but I find it highly unlikely that Dell will manage to do anything beyond the usual dog and pony show they're so famous for.
Dude, you're getting a Dell.
Oh dear god, why?
Re: Re: iTunes does not work with Dell's DJ
That's BS. 3-4 years ago the school districts in our area spent about $1200 a machine for computers...
Most of the desktops were puny 300mhz machines
The towers were P2 or P3 BUT THEY HAD NLX BOARDS!! NLX?! ON A TOWER?!
quality my butt. In our labs there was always at least 2 or 3 broken
That's BS. 3-4 years ago the school districts in our area spent about $1200 a machine for computers...
Most of the desktops were puny 300mhz machines
The towers were P2 or P3 BUT THEY HAD NLX BOARDS!! NLX?! ON A TOWER?!
quality my butt. In our labs there was always at least 2 or 3 broken
Very true as someone who lives in Japan and sees it everyday. MDs rule over here.
Interesting that you say this.
The other day, I saw a cell phone that took the MMC/SD memory. They discuss up to 1GB of music on a card.
Pretty sweet!
Yep, the iPod seems popular here. But so are the solid state devices.
I love my iPod and used it for all music listening activities until now.
For running, skiing, etc., I now have a RIO SU30. Very nice. Smaller and lighter than an iPod, plus it has a very nice neckstrap with integrated headset system.
Here is the URL:
http://www.rioaudio.jp/products/riosu30_2.html
Sushi
Funny you say that. I love my iPod also but I think I'm going to get a keychain player for time my iPod batter is low, or I just don't care to wear a fanny pack that day in the gym. The iPod is delicate and scratch-prone.
This is where I really wish iTunes supported other devices and re-encoding on transfer to device. Also, at 64k this is where WMA shines. I guess there's room for everyone in this market. But at the high-end, iPod+iTunes seems unbeatable.
RIO SU30 looks cool! Apple should make the iPacket
Perhaps a smaller version of the iPod could be cool. Is a packet smaller than a pod?
Here is a Watson translation (via Bablefish) of the web page that Sushi posted:
Audio player, voice recorder, FM radio and USB storage media in one portable device! Rio SU30, the "audio player", the "voice recorder", the "FM radio" and the Rio family which combines four functions of the "USB storage media" most small size of the weight approximately 37g which becomes lightweight is the digital audio player. WMA (Windows Media Audio) and music of MP3 system/playback function of sound, maximum of 36 hours * audio sound recording function, loading the function of the treble quality FM tuner and the storage media. It mounts the USB connector, because the private software is not needed in USB storage class correspondence, it connects to the personal computer simply, can transfer the file. In case of *Rio SU30 512MB
Perhaps a smaller version of the iPod could be cool. Is a packet smaller than a pod?
Here is a Watson translation (via Bablefish) of the web page that Sushi posted:
Audio player, voice recorder, FM radio and USB storage media in one portable device! Rio SU30, the "audio player", the "voice recorder", the "FM radio" and the Rio family which combines four functions of the "USB storage media" most small size of the weight approximately 37g which becomes lightweight is the digital audio player. WMA (Windows Media Audio) and music of MP3 system/playback function of sound, maximum of 36 hours * audio sound recording function, loading the function of the treble quality FM tuner and the storage media. It mounts the USB connector, because the private software is not needed in USB storage class correspondence, it connects to the personal computer simply, can transfer the file. In case of *Rio SU30 512MB
Re: Re: Re: iTunes does not work with Dell's DJ
You are 100% correct. When I hear people in here talking about dell engineers I can't help but laugh. Seems as though people have been watching too many of Dell's "intern" commercials and not paying enough attention to what they actually sell. Dell is a supply chain company. They make money by cutting corners. If they can switch a $10 network card for an $8 they will. Most importantly they will switch it and probably not even tell their customers. We get PCs from Dell all the time and I can't even describe the total pain in the butt that Dell is when it comes to switching parts and not telling us. Dell does not want to compete with apple for online music sales. Dell want's to take all the money it can from you at one time. They know that as long as you are buying a $1500 computer you might as well get that music player you always wanted, and the printer that you would have to get anyways. Oh, and while you are at it throw a digital camera on the pile.
Dell's products will do what Dell's products always do. They will be two year old technology at last year's prices and be unsupported by the time you get it. If you ever have as problem Dell will push it off on the company they bought the devices from and the company that they bought the devices from will tell you to that since it has Dell's name on it it's their problem. If I got one of these for christmas I would return it and shell out the extra cash out-of-pocket for and iPod.
You are 100% correct. When I hear people in here talking about dell engineers I can't help but laugh. Seems as though people have been watching too many of Dell's "intern" commercials and not paying enough attention to what they actually sell. Dell is a supply chain company. They make money by cutting corners. If they can switch a $10 network card for an $8 they will. Most importantly they will switch it and probably not even tell their customers. We get PCs from Dell all the time and I can't even describe the total pain in the butt that Dell is when it comes to switching parts and not telling us. Dell does not want to compete with apple for online music sales. Dell want's to take all the money it can from you at one time. They know that as long as you are buying a $1500 computer you might as well get that music player you always wanted, and the printer that you would have to get anyways. Oh, and while you are at it throw a digital camera on the pile.
Dell's products will do what Dell's products always do. They will be two year old technology at last year's prices and be unsupported by the time you get it. If you ever have as problem Dell will push it off on the company they bought the devices from and the company that they bought the devices from will tell you to that since it has Dell's name on it it's their problem. If I got one of these for christmas I would return it and shell out the extra cash out-of-pocket for and iPod.
I care about my iPod! He He!
But it only cost me about $100 because of the discount I got when I purchased my computer and display.
The RIO SU30 OTOH, cost a whole lot more. But I don't care if it gets damaged.
Go figure!
I mean, drop my iPod...tears come to my eyes. Drop my SU30...pick it up and continue like nothing has happened.
BTW, the RIO SU30 requires software to run and is not compatable with the Mac. Well, I have never let that stop me. I just connect if via my USB and copy the MP3 files over. Likewise, for recordings (wave files) I just copy them the other way. Seems to work okay. This solution also works on the Windoze side.
I encode my MP3s at 256, 44.1, True Stereo. So it takes about 2MB per minute. I have the 256 model, so I can carry about 128 minutes of music -- or one very long workout!
What I like about the RIO SU30 is that I can record long meetings very easily. I would imagine that it would come in handly recording lectures. Only has a built in mic, so that limits the capabilities a bit.
Here is a picture of the neckstrap/earphones. Works well.
Sushi
Attachments
Re: RIO SU30 looks cool! Apple should make the iPacket
I would like to see the following:
- Same form factor as the 3G type
- Same OS as the 3G type
- 1 or 2 GB Flash Memory
- All plastic (reduce weight)
- Thin. Thin. (50% of the current 10Gb version).
- Same connectors as 3G type
Sushi
A solid state/flash memory one would be very nice!
I would like to see the following:
- Same form factor as the 3G type
- Same OS as the 3G type
- 1 or 2 GB Flash Memory
- All plastic (reduce weight)
- Thin. Thin. (50% of the current 10Gb version).
- Same connectors as 3G type
Sushi
dell's main business is not in "innovating" in the sense of inventing new things. that's not what they do. their business is in selling PCs to the masses at the right combination of price/quality/specifications/service. they are not the front runners in terms of inventing technology - they will be the front runner in adopting "hot" technology on a wide scale, though.
if dell suddenly started selling "luxury" line of all-in-one-PC priced at a premium like Macs, who'd buy? people buy dells because they sell reputable (or tolerable, take your pick) PCs at very good price.
edit: that said, i can't imagine a better overall package of price/usability than the eMac. yeah, headless would have been nice for a lower price, but i'm pretty impressed with the new eMac. my only gripe is the 128 MB RAM. it's definitely on the low side, esp. with panther.
if dell suddenly started selling "luxury" line of all-in-one-PC priced at a premium like Macs, who'd buy? people buy dells because they sell reputable (or tolerable, take your pick) PCs at very good price.
edit: that said, i can't imagine a better overall package of price/usability than the eMac. yeah, headless would have been nice for a lower price, but i'm pretty impressed with the new eMac. my only gripe is the 128 MB RAM. it's definitely on the low side, esp. with panther.