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Dell DJ Price and Specs?

Re: Grrr....

Originally posted by hulugu
I wish companies like MS and Dell would innovate rather than copy Apple like a dumb jock during finals.
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You mean like Apple did when they took the Archos MP3 jukebox (the first HD-based portable MP3 player) and created the iPod? Yeah, I just hate people who copy.
And another thing: the Dell will surely either be larger, have an extra battery pack, or they're using the same sort of legalese they use to describe their laptops battery life.
Also likely, the Dell won't have the sound quality that the iPod does, that equalizer sucks up a lot of juice. Futhermore, the iPod can get more than 8 hours on a single charge you just need to fiddle with it some. Read the manual.
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Yeah, because nobody else can ever do anything. And if they say they can, they lie.

C'mon. And yes, that first response was sarcastic - but only a little. How come when Apple does anything, its innovative, but when somebody else does it, its copying Apple? Can't we at least agree that Apple is a good enough company to be judged by the strength of its products, and not need this kind of everyone-else-bashing to "help" their cause?

-Richard
 
Richard-

I have a problem with Dell claiming that they are first to market with a product or idea that Apple has had for two years or more. They do this often. The average consumer hears the lie and buys the product, thinking Dell is an innovator. Usually they figure it out, but Dell already got their money.

Dell isn't a bad company, they are in fact exceedingly efficient. They are not innovators, they are a distributor who likes to put their brand name on everything they sell.
 
Re: Re: Grrr....

Originally posted by rjstanford
You mean like Apple did when they took the Archos MP3 jukebox (the first HD-based portable MP3 player) and created the iPod? Yeah, I just hate people who copy.Yeah, because nobody else can ever do anything. And if they say they can, they lie.

C'mon. And yes, that first response was sarcastic - but only a little. How come when Apple does anything, its innovative, but when somebody else does it, its copying Apple? Can't we at least agree that Apple is a good enough company to be judged by the strength of its products, and not need this kind of everyone-else-bashing to "help" their cause?

-Richard
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Well, the old Archos Jukebox was such a piece of crap that it's a stretch to say Apple "copied" them in this instance. :p Yes, they are both HD based mp3 players, but that's where the similarities between it and the iPod end. And yes, I speak from experience having owned the old 6GB model for a short time back 2-3 years ago. It was such a flakey POS that I ended up returning it for a refund before the 30 days ran out at Best Buy. That's not even to mention that the iPod also looks nothing like that old Archos either (thank God!) At least the iPod looks good and works well. The Dell jukebox on the other hand was obviously designed using an iPod as it's guiding blueprint, all you have to do is look at it and you can see that...
 
Bash Bash

Apple took the original HD-based MP3 player and made a much better creation, that's innovation.
Dell takes Apple's iPod changes the styling slightly and then markets it as an iPod by Dell. That's copying.
I bash Dell and MS (check out the new Longhorn, or as the joke goes check out OSX.3 to see what Longhorn will look like) is they essentially market Apple's ideas without bringing anything new to the table.
 
What's with the worry?

What is everyone so worried about? If someone comes out with a better/cheaper MP3 player, isn't that a good thing? I hope that some companies step into the Mac MP3 player arena to shake things up. The iPod is far too expensive right now. It's survival of the fittest in the computer world -- people vote with their dollars, and you'd be stupid to think that Apple's current maket share is due to bad luck. So if something tramples the iPod in sales, well, that's evolution!

Another thing to consider about DellDJ vs. iPod in the PC world, is that PC shoppers value price over quality. It's that simple. Hell, most PC users don't even know what quality *IS* (MusicMatch's popularity is a glaring example of that statement), much less that it's something that can be acheived through proper design.
 
Re: Bash Bash

No way is taking something that's already out there and changing it around innovation.

Originally posted by hulugu
Apple took the original HD-based MP3 player and made a much better creation, that's innovation.
Dell takes Apple's iPod changes the styling slightly and then markets it as an iPod by Dell. That's copying.
I bash Dell and MS (check out the new Longhorn, or as the joke goes check out OSX.3 to see what Longhorn will look like) is they essentially market Apple's ideas without bringing anything new to the table.
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I originally thought the Dell DJ was a rebranded Creative, but I noticed a difference of some importance. The hard drive used is from HGST instead of Creative's usual source and the deal was negotiated between HGST and Dell (no mention of Creative.) It's still possible that Creative is the one who actually handles design and manufacturing (to Dell's specs and parts.)

Another major difference between the iPod and the DJ is a removable/replaceable battery. It's always bugged me that the iPod, once the battery dies, is useless since you can't replace the battery and batteries have a notorious life-expectancy problem.
 
Actually, there's no innovation at all apparently just invention and replication.
Innovation is by definition the invention of an idea, but I think its usage extends beyond that. Someone innovated the transitor radio so that it became the portable audio device we're so used to. Did they create the crystals necessary, the technology? No, but they did put it together in such a form that it became a wholly new object.
The automobile existed long before Henry Ford put his particular stamp on it, but it was his particular vision that made it into the thing we're used to. But does anyone know who ran Chevy a few years later? No, because they followed Ford and his cohorts.
Apple has done the same thing with the MP3 player, they took a seminal idea and made it into something that is useful and functional, meanwhile Dell waits until it becomes popular and then jumps right in. I don't want more Chevy's, I want Porsche who dared to make high-end cars with rear engines, or maybe MINI (both times) with their tiny little speedster in the midst of hulking monsters.
Dell is every American automaker following the Honda Civic, Dell is the tag-along, the weasel, that damn kid who always copied your work and then claimed it was his.
Dell hasn't brought anything to the table, now if they came out with an MP3 player that played movies too, I'd be wholly impressed. If they used fuel cells, I'd be impressed. If they managed to come up with a new way of relating to the user, rather than the new cliche' round dial with buttons, I might even give them credit. But all they did was take the iPod template, wait until it became popular and safe and then they will try to capitilize on it. Apple and by extension the original MP3 maker made the MP3 player something we'd actually buy.
By the way for bonus points, who invented the photographic process and who invented the lightbulb? If you know this 1macker1 then we can talk some more.
 
Originally posted by hulugu
Dell waits until it becomes popular and then jumps right in ... Dell hasn't brought anything to the table, now if they came out with an MP3 player that played movies too, I'd be wholly impressed. If they used fuel cells, I'd be impressed. If they managed to come up with a new way of relating to the user, rather than the new cliche' round dial with buttons, I might even give them credit. But all they did was take the iPod template, wait until it became popular and safe and then they will try to capitilize on it. Apple and by extension the original MP3 maker made the MP3 player something we'd actually buy.
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Note: This is known as good business sense.

Besides, there are a couple of areas - let me quote from a Review of the Dell:

Battery life is impressive—we got about 16 hours of continuous play. The 30GB Apple iPod (recently tested in our "Let the Music Play" story) lasted only around 9 hours.

While less elegant than the Apple iPod, Dell's Digital Jukebox is generally easy to use, works well, and delivers great sound ... Dell is certainly putting forth a good, affordable first effort.

So it may not be, quite, the iPod, but with almost double the battery life for $100 less, maybe it won't have to be?

-Richard
 
Originally posted by brooklyn
Here's C/Net's Review of Dell's New DJ (for those interested).
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Interesting - especially the quote, "The area in which the DJ truly rocks is battery life: an astounding 19.5 hours--significantly more than the 16 hours that Dell claims. Charging the unit fully with the AC adapter takes about 6 hours. You can also charge the unit using the USB 1.1/2.0 connection, but that takes longer, and it doesn't work if the battery has run down to less than 25 percent." So this can be charged over USB (unlike the iPod). Now, I personally don't see this as a big deal, but its been quoted on this board as a major benefit to using the iPod on a Mac - does this make the Dell device better for Windows users than the iPod, or will it turn out that charging from the connection wire isn't that big a deal after all? Hmm? Also, it seems that the battery claims are substantiated (unlike a lot of the earlier suspicions of inflated claims here). I wonder if Apple can respond with better battery technology of its own? Sure hope so ... isn't competition nice?

-Richard
 
Originally posted by rjstanford
I wonder if Apple can respond with better battery technology of its own? Sure hope so ... isn't competition nice?

-Richard
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right on. I agree with your entire post, more than what I just quoted. 4th generation iPods I'm sure will cover most of the Dell advantages. But they had better get going on it!
 
Re: Re: poor man's ipod

Originally posted by Phil Of Mac
It's $30 less! That's not a huge improvement, you know!
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um, no.

iPod 10GB: $299 ($29.9 per GB)
DJ 15GB: $249 ($16.6 per GB)

so if you argue by capacity per cost, the DJ is 56% of the cost of the iPod.

iPod 20GB: $399
DJ 20GB: $329

And please don't be quoting refurb prices or ebay prices. That's not what people will be comparing at when they're looking for a Xmas present.
 
Re: Re: Re: poor man's ipod

Originally posted by dongmin
um, no.

iPod 10GB: $299 ($29.9 per GB)
DJ 15GB: $249 ($16.6 per GB)
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Originally posted by Macrumors
The "Dell Music Bundle" ($343 retail, $268 now) is described in the "Learn more..." link. This bundle includes a Dell DJ 15 Music Player, Sony Elements of Style Headphones, Dell DJ Car Adapter Kit, and Dell DJ Sport Case.
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$268 for the Dell 15 GB DJ vs. $299 for a 10 GB iPod. The cost of the entry-level player is $30 less. Yes, you get 5 more GB, but it's still not a huge savings.
 
Originally posted by rjstanford
Hmm? Also, it seems that the battery claims are substantiated (unlike a lot of the earlier suspicions of inflated claims here). I wonder if Apple can respond with better battery technology of its own? Sure hope so ... isn't competition nice.
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No, because it won't sell.

Huh?

There is no "better battery technology" in the Dell. The thing weighs 40% more and is bigger in all dimensions. Since all these players uses Li-Ion batteries it means that you can shape the battery to any size you want. Basically all Dell did was put in a bigger battery, not a better one.

Apple, on the other hand, realized from sales of 1G and 2G iPods that people don't want a bigger battery because the need is rare (docking connector and firewire means the system is always charged and easy to charge, rarely need more than 8 hours) and when that need materializes they have a healthy 3rd party market of solutions (battery packs, auto adapters, etc.).

They opted to make the iPod much smaller. Since I own a 1G iPod which has the same form factor as the Dell Pod (or, I should say, the reverse is true), I can surely understand and would gladly give up the few hours more battery life for Apple's new form factor.

Honestly, do you think the people at C|net actually plunked down their hard earned cash on this? Do you think they really use the thing regularly enough and in varied situations that the last few hours of more battery life made a difference (in other words, have they taken a flight from New York to San Francisco and back just for the hell of it)?

The thing that disappoints me is that when I go to Fry's all the iPods are in the Apple section. They should put them also next to the Creative, Rio, and Archos players also as most PC people avoid the Apple section as the "Mac" section.

No worry about ever seeing a Dell in there though. How do you think they save you the $50? Mostly by cutting out the retailer.

That business model plus the ridicule a college kid will get for buying such an "iPod knock off" means Dell will be lucky to recoup the ODM costs through sales. Especially after bribing c|net et.al. with advertising to publish favorable reviews of such an obviously behind-the-curve product.

My recommendation to PC users who don't want an iPod? Buy a Zen or a USB player.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: poor man's ipod

Originally posted by Phil Of Mac
$268 for the Dell 15 GB DJ vs. $299 for a 10 GB iPod. The cost of the entry-level player is $30 less. Yes, you get 5 more GB, but it's still not a huge savings.
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You get 5 gigs more, that's half of the $299 iPod's storage. Not to mention a car adapter which is nice to have.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: poor man's ipod

Originally posted by Juventuz
You get 5 gigs more, that's half of the $299 iPod's storage. Not to mention a car adapter which is nice to have.
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Hey you can buy a car adapter for nothing:rolleyes:
If you can't afford a new ipod buy a refurb and it will still beat the duh-hell:D
But who knows, I don't own the duh-hell
maybe it will be a world beater.
They'll have to work quite a bit to beat the ease of use and functionality of an ipod, yeah Ilove mine:cool:
daniel
 
And that's just my point

Originally posted by rjstanford
Note: This is known as good business sense.

Besides, there are a couple of areas - let me quote from a Review of the Dell:

Battery life is impressive—we got about 16 hours of continuous play. The 30GB Apple iPod (recently tested in our "Let the Music Play" story) lasted only around 9 hours.

While less elegant than the Apple iPod, Dell's Digital Jukebox is generally easy to use, works well, and delivers great sound ... Dell is certainly putting forth a good, affordable first effort.

So it may not be, quite, the iPod, but with almost double the battery life for $100 less, maybe it won't have to be?

-Richard
Click to expand...

But, that's just my point, Apple did all the R&D (or most of it anyway, I'll concede that they did not invent the MP3 player) and Dell gets to come out with their own copy, I understand this is good business sense, but that doesn't make it any better, business sense is often a rapacious and self-serving attitude centered on making money. This is what Apple doing too, but they actually give me something new and creative and interesting with the iPod, Dell just gave me the same thing, albiet in a different (IMHO lesser) version.
I don't mind the competition, I'd just like to see something new; like the new Sony Clie' or the Nokia that can double as an MP3 player. Those are far more interesting to me then whether or not Dell can sell cheap knockoffs.
And as for how the Dell stacks up against the iPod:
My uncle brought back a watch from Vietnam, on the face it is clearly a Casio, but on the back is a series of Chinese characters. It looks like a Casio, it tells time, but it still ain't a Casio.

And money, it's a gas. But, it ain't nothin either.

'Nuff said.
 
Originally posted by Phil Of Mac
The quality of the iPod more than makes up for the difference in cost.
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Ah. So the quality of the iPod is worth more than $100 more (to you) than the quality of another item that you have nither used, nor in fact actually even seen in person?

I think that I understand your position better now.

-Richard
 
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