Denise Young Smith Takes on New Role as VP of Diversity and Inclusion at Apple

[WestonHarvey1]

I have been in technology for more than 20 years and have been a director of technology at a public company. I am also a Principal level engineer. By the way I am also a minority. I didn't get where I am being a token anything and hold a MSEE along with patents in my field. I'm a Senior Member of the IEEE.

Now that being said. This industry has a huge problem with diversity. It has nothing to do with qualified minorities not having the skills and everything to do with people hiring people that look like them or talk like them. It's not over racism or discrimination but more subtle. "You don't fit what we are looking for is very common." I know multiple black senior people that have been at successful startups and have a demonstrated track record. At companies like Apple, Intel, Google, etc. The answer has been, "It doesn't look like a good fit." It hasn't been lack of qualifications for any of the candidates I know. I've had the same answer and it's definitely not lack of skill, enthusiasm or anything else.

Maybe you're in the Silicon Valley bubble, and maybe SV types really are racists. They carry on about being good liberals, and certainly want to be seen that way, but every week there's a new story about office debauchery that would make a sailor blush.

Here in the Midwest, good tech people are difficult to hire. I can't imagine having the luxury of racism. In 20 years of interviews I have seen 3 black applicants. Can't hire black people if they aren't even applying. Not sure where my supposed racism works its way into such an equation.

 

[Spendlove]

Reading the first four pages of hateful comments I can see now how the world ended up with Trump and Brexit.

:-(

 

[hayesk]

A common pattern I see here is that much of the negativity is based on the assumption that diversity = affirmative action. It ignores much of the real problems.

1. Yes, there is bias in hiring. Not every white male was the best candidate, but this doesn't necessarily have to be a huge problem to require diversity policies.
2. Who examines hiring qualifications to make sure there aren't subtle or unconscious biases in the interview process?
3. Who examines the work atmosphere to retain qualified people, once hired?
4. Who examines how and where recruiting is done so that a fair cross-section of people actually know to apply for the job?
5. And let's be honest. Applicants don't come in with a score card. There's usually not a single scale to use to evaluate if someone is "the best candidate." And even when there is, that scale may not be perfectly relevant for evaluating a candidate.

All of these are real problems and have nothing to affirmative action.

 

[nt5672]

Good luck to her in her new role. The constant negative reactions to anything mentioning diversity and inclusion from some on these on these forums prove how much further society has to go on these issues - I for one am glad Apple appears to be paying attention to them.

I believe promoting diversity and inclusion is not only the right thing to, it's the smart thing to do. Wanting Apple to pay more attention to its computers (which I would agree with), or whatever else, doesn't mean they should (or have to) ignore social issues, both within the company and in a wider context - indeed, I believe the two things are complementary, not in opposition.

A diverse and inclusive company is one where ideas and creativity can flow more freely, staff will be happier, and everyone can concentrate on making great products. Isn't that what we all want?

No, we want a company where people are hired and respected based on skills and regardless of their sexual orientation, race, gender, etc. Being numerically diverse means absolutely nothing, that is if you stop to think about it.

If Apple has such a diversity problem that they need executive level diversity czar, then indeed Apple has big problems. But I suspect they don't. This is pure marketing to get people to go wow, look at what Apple is doing. Its is no different than hiring a token minority just to get people off your case. It was done for years and it worked for years (and I think it was wrong).

A diversity czar can only do these two things; 1) monitor and punish managers/employees that make sexist, racist, homophobic, etc. decisions, and 2) Make sure that people get hired because of their race, gender, sexual preferences, etc. rather than for their skill set.

Unfortunately, most of these diversity hires spend the most time on #2 and are hired for the publicity of having a diversity czar. Unfortunately the only real need is for #1. And if that is happening at Apple, then it is the Sr. Management who are letting it happen. If this is indeed the case, then Sr. Management won't listen to a diversity czar anyway.

People are so easily fooled.

 

[bollman]

For those in favour of meritocracy:
https://www.sns.se/en/archive/gender-quotas-competence-and-careers/

 

[tgara]

Sort of like at Berkeley? Where everyone has the right to speak their opinions?

Or the Duke Divinity School.

http://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/duke-divinity-crisis-griffiths-documents/

 

[nt5672]

When it comes to lack of diversity, you need to look at the root cause of it. For example, only 20% of computer engineering degrees go to women. This means 4 out of 5 people who pursue a computer science degree are men.

So it's no surprise that more men work at Apple than women.

You left out the most important part, only a small percentage of women want to be engineers and of those 1/2 are going to be in the bottom half of female graduates. Trying to match that to the population percentages is a fools errand (if you want quality products.) Tim Cook has never operated like he wanted quality products so I guess it is to be expected.

 

[applezulu]

The instant and overwhelming reaction to this story is an indicator of the problem that exists, and the reason why a person needs to be in charge of diversity and inclusion.

The stats are presented in the article. Fewer women and minorities find work at Apple (and in tech fields in general). You would think that tech people would be analytical and curious about this, but no. Observing this thread, you see that it's just largely an automatic jump to claims of reverse racism, people saying "I don't see skin color," and assumptions that a VP of diversity and inclusion's job is just to hire unqualified women and black people to meet quotas.

The truth is, women and non-white people are discouraged and thwarted at every turn, long before a stack of resumes land on a hiring manager's desk. Thinking that counting on that manager to hire the most qualified person he sees in the stack of resumes will solve all the problems would be like expecting a QC check, conducted right before an iPhone is boxed up and shipped out, will ensure it's the best designed and best made smart phone out there. Nope.

Even after they do get jobs in these fields, there's work to do to assure that women and minorities get the same opportunities and challenges that white men get, whether that's chances for promotion, assignments to interesting and challenging projects, or even the chance to just to speak up and be heard in staff meetings.

If you work in one of these fields, chances are (literally) that you're a white guy. Ask yourself. Do you interrupt women before they can finish making a point in meetings? Do you suspect every black guy at the office is probably a 'diversity hire,' and therefore doesn't really deserve to be there? If you come across a woman or minority person who's crappy at their job, do you think to yourself that this is just proof that either most women and minorities are inferior at tech work, or proof that 'diversity' programs bring in unqualified workers? Do you think those things while simultaneously looking at a white co-worker who's been checking Twitter for 40 hours a week for the last two years and thinking 'eh, that just Bob... he's a slacker'? Have you recently stalked a female co-worker? Have you stood idly by while a friend stalked a female co-worker? Have you ever tried to avoid assigning or being assigned to work with a female co-worker on a big project because she might get pregnant and go on maternity leave? The list goes on.

I wish Ms. Smith all the best. It's hard to do a job when so many of your co-workers, despite ample available data, insist that it's a job that doesn't need to be done.

 

[Chase R]

We will never progress to a color-blind society as long as we keep doing things like this and teaching it at universities. Zero chance. These type of acts will only further/maintain the status quo.

 

[meteoreos]

The instant and overwhelming reaction to this story is an indicator of the problem that exists, and the reason why a person needs to be in charge of diversity and inclusion.

The stats are presented in the article. Fewer women and minorities find work at Apple (and in tech fields in general). You would think that tech people would be analytical and curious about this, but no. Observing this thread, you see that it's just largely an automatic jump to claims of reverse racism, people saying "I don't see skin color," and assumptions that a VP of diversity and inclusion's job is just to hire unqualified women and black people to meet quotas.

The truth is, women and non-white people are discouraged and thwarted at every turn, long before a stack of resumes land on a hiring manager's desk. Thinking that counting on that manager to hire the most qualified person he sees in the stack of resumes will solve all the problems would be like expecting a QC check, conducted right before an iPhone is boxed up and shipped out, will ensure it's the best designed and best made smart phone out there. Nope.

Even after they do get jobs in these fields, there's work to do to assure that women and minorities get the same opportunities and challenges that white men get, whether that's chances for promotion, assignments to interesting and challenging projects, or even the chance to just to speak up and be heard in staff meetings.

If you work in one of these fields, chances are (literally) that you're a white guy. Ask yourself. Do you interrupt women before they can finish making a point in meetings? Do you suspect every black guy at the office is probably a 'diversity hire,' and therefore doesn't really deserve to be there? If you come across a woman or minority person who's crappy at their job, do you think to yourself that this is just proof that either most women and minorities are inferior at tech work, or proof that 'diversity' programs bring in unqualified workers? Do you think those things while simultaneously looking at a white co-worker who's been checking Twitter for 40 hours a week for the last two years and thinking 'eh, that just Bob... he's a slacker'? Have you recently stalked a female co-worker? Have you stood idly by while a friend stalked a female co-worker? Have you ever tried to avoid assigning or being assigned to work with a female co-worker on a big project because she might get pregnant and go on maternity leave? The list goes on.

I wish Ms. Smith all the best. It's hard to do a job when so many of your co-workers, despite ample available data, insist that it's a job that doesn't need to be done.

This perfectly sums it up.

 

[WestonHarvey1]

As a young white male in 2017 I feel I'm going to be turned down over a job for a less qualified and experienced person simply for my skin colour and gender and I find it disgusting. What have I ever done wrong? For being born wrong.

It's going to affect you, no doubt. And people will throw rocks at you when you complain. Get ready for hearing about how turnabout is fair play because of what your ancestors did, and that you still have privilege no matter what is done to you to "correct" for it.

You can't question it, because the people that invented these ideas have PhDs.

 

[doelcm82]

If Apple has such a diversity problem that they need executive level diversity czar, then indeed Apple has big problems.

Most large companies have a diversity problem. Managing diversity is a huge job. I don't have a problem with the person doing this job being at the same level as the other "czars" (as you call them).

 

[applezulu]

The native Americans didn't found the United States, it was founded by colonists who lived on unclaimed land. It's not a nation of immigrants and in any case the US isn't the only white country on the planet my OP applies to. I don't know why the other poster was fixated on that.

Do you honestly believe that if the whites were dispossessed and turned into a minority, replaced by non-whites, that their countries will retain the same character? That's fanciful thinking quite honestly.

So because of perceived historical slights whites can morally be ethnically cleansed? Still no straight answer.

Colonists who lived on "unclaimed land"? You can't be serious.

 

[OriginalClone]

I'm not sure of every other black, or minorities, experience; but I have had zero issues with the color of my skin holding me back. Hard work and skill has propelled me along my way. I feel this world is getting too soft with inclusion being necessary in everything. Less Kumbaya and more competition.

If Apple wants to worry about diversity, how about they ad some more diversity to their port options on their Pro version of their laptops.

Just because you haven't had issues doesn't mean other people of color haven't as well..

 

[alexgowers]

I'm not sure of every other black, or minorities, experience; but I have had zero issues with the color of my skin holding me back. Hard work and skill has propelled me along my way. I feel this world is getting too soft with inclusion being necessary in everything. Less Kumbaya and more competition.

If Apple wants to worry about diversity, how about they ad some more diversity to their port options on their Pro version of their laptops.

I agree that there are very few limits in skill based jobs. But nepotism and glass ceilings still exist in other places where a name and face are more important and exclude minorities and females. Politics and finance have massive issues for example.

 

[Johnny907]

Meanwhile, at the Apple Board of Directors meeting...

https://www.apple.com/pr/bios/

Diversity!

 

[blacktape242]

how about give the best person the job....does it have to matter what race they are, if they are gay or whatever?
[doublepost=1495570209][/doublepost]

Reading the first four pages of hateful comments I can see now how the world ended up with Trump and Brexit.

:-(

Trump doesn't have anything to do with lack of diversity or inclusion. stop it with your nonsense.

 

[BornAgainMac]

This is good. But I want a black Macbook Pro.

 

[doelcm82]

how about give the best person the job....does it have to matter what race they are, if they are gay or whatever?

Agreed, but what do you do when you have mid-level and lower level managers who don't do that? And what do you do when you are such a large company that it requires a full time position to monitor and enforce your simple policy? The person who holds this job needs to have some authority over the people who do the hiring. Something like a vice president in charge of diversity. And here we are!

 

[WestonHarvey1]

Reading the first four pages of hateful comments I can see now how the world ended up with Trump and Brexit.

:-(

Were there any? Can you point one out? Maybe one slipped past me, but there certainly wren't 4 pages of them.

 

[Reach9]

The instant and overwhelming reaction to this story is an indicator of the problem that exists, and the reason why a person needs to be in charge of diversity and inclusion.

The stats are presented in the article. Fewer women and minorities find work at Apple (and in tech fields in general). You would think that tech people would be analytical and curious about this, but no. Observing this thread, you see that it's just largely an automatic jump to claims of reverse racism, people saying "I don't see skin color," and assumptions that a VP of diversity and inclusion's job is just to hire unqualified women and black people to meet quotas.

The truth is, women and non-white people are discouraged and thwarted at every turn, long before a stack of resumes land on a hiring manager's desk. Thinking that counting on that manager to hire the most qualified person he sees in the stack of resumes will solve all the problems would be like expecting a QC check, conducted right before an iPhone is boxed up and shipped out, will ensure it's the best designed and best made smart phone out there. Nope.

Even after they do get jobs in these fields, there's work to do to assure that women and minorities get the same opportunities and challenges that white men get, whether that's chances for promotion, assignments to interesting and challenging projects, or even the chance to just to speak up and be heard in staff meetings.

If you work in one of these fields, chances are (literally) that you're a white guy. Ask yourself. Do you interrupt women before they can finish making a point in meetings? Do you suspect every black guy at the office is probably a 'diversity hire,' and therefore doesn't really deserve to be there? If you come across a woman or minority person who's crappy at their job, do you think to yourself that this is just proof that either most women and minorities are inferior at tech work, or proof that 'diversity' programs bring in unqualified workers? Do you think those things while simultaneously looking at a white co-worker who's been checking Twitter for 40 hours a week for the last two years and thinking 'eh, that just Bob... he's a slacker'? Have you recently stalked a female co-worker? Have you stood idly by while a friend stalked a female co-worker? Have you ever tried to avoid assigning or being assigned to work with a female co-worker on a big project because she might get pregnant and go on maternity leave? The list goes on.

I wish Ms. Smith all the best. It's hard to do a job when so many of your co-workers, despite ample available data, insist that it's a job that doesn't need to be done.

Completely disagree. The instant and overwhelming reaction to this story is an indication of how people feel about the real problem of identity politics. Also, as i said earlier:

Sorry you just can't make up problems and made up 'solutions', and when people question those 'solutions' you can't say 'attitudes like yours prove that the problem is real'. That doesn't make sense.

Yes and fewer women work at coal mining, fishers, construction work, roofers etc. as well. The reality is tech people are analytical and curious about this and have found out the reason, it's not racism and sexism. (I'm not saying there aren't racist and sexist individuals)
Nobody is claiming 'reverse racism', that doesn't exist and you're implying racism is a one-way street, it's just called racism. The VP of Diversity and Inclusion's job is to discriminate on immutable traits, i.e. it's a discriminatory practice, regardless if the new hires are 'qualified' or not.

Sorry you don't speak for women and non-white people. As a non-white person, I haven't been discouraged and thwarted at every turn. Just because there are some hiring managers that are incompetent, and just because hiring can be improved doesn't mean we start discriminating on race, gender, etc. and disregard meritocracy. Nope.

Women and 'minorities' get opportunities that white men get if that's what they want. They're promoted, assigned to interesting and challenging projects and heard in staff meetings. Stop painting everyone as victims.

I work in the tech field, and I'm not a white guy. No, women talk 2-3 times more than men, and they're interrupted by other women and men alike, it's not sexism. Interrupting people is rude, and some times people do rude things, it's not okay and people know that.
No, I don't suspect every black guy to be a 'diversity hire' but I won't be surprised if people do. See, you make up your own problems, you can't hire people based on race and then complain when other people wonder if said person was hired because of their race. If there wasn't 'positive discrimination' then people wouldn't suspect that black guy as being a 'diversity hire'.
No, just because someone is crappy at their job i don't associate that to their entire race, gender, etc. Do 'diversity' programs bring in unqualified workers? That can be discussed.
No, white coworkers aren't the only people on social media at work. Your racism is showing.
No, I haven't stalked a female co-worker (mind you, i'm not denying that some male individuals do that), but I know female co-workers who stalked their male counterparts that they're sexually interested in, I know that they faced zero repercussions. I know male co-workers who have been falsely accused of 'harassment' have their office lives ruined. I know what hell the HR departments are.
The list goes on.

I wish you all the best.

 

[You are the One]

The main tech-companies in the US have become neo-liberal (fascist) political movements. Looking at who owns them it's no wonder.

Buy and support US cultural marxism designed by the zio Deep State.

 

[GermanSuplex]

I just finished reading your nonsense and this was the most idiotic thing i have done.

Can you specify why? You may not agree with what was said but why not expand on it?

One need only look at things like 'equal pay for equal work' rules being struck down in Washington as reasons things like these debates exist.

 

[techwhiz]

Maybe you're in the Silicon Valley bubble, and maybe SV types really are racists. They carry on about being good liberals, and certainly want to be seen that way, but every week there's a new story about office debauchery that would make a sailor blush.

Here in the Midwest, good tech people are difficult to hire. I can't imagine having the luxury of racism. In 20 years of interviews I have seen 3 black applicants. Can't hire black people if they aren't even applying. Not sure where my supposed racism works its way into such an equation.

First I would say that hiring tech in the Midwest is going to be hard no matter what. So your experience of not having the "luxury" to exclude qualified candidates of any color is unique. Here in SV where there is a large pool of candidates you will find that over time the makeup of a group or department starts to skew. If the hiring manager is East Indian you start to see more East Indian. Same for Chinese and other nationalities. So I'm not claiming overt racism. I'm saying that people have biases and hire people they think will "fit". Often that will be they person that looks or talks like them.

I have never experienced overt racism in career. It's has always been about the "fit". Google is skewed toward younger candidates because of "fit". People need to be made aware. Her job is about building a culture where all are welcome and also reaching out to colleges to help under represented people get introduced to the field.

Diversity is not about finding just a candidate. It's about making sure your workforce has people of diverse backgrounds, education and experience so that you have a mix of different ideas and novel solutions to problems. Having a narrow or small spectrum of people with similar experience and background limits the types of ideas and solutions you get.

 

[applezulu]

Try this thought exercise:

You're in Silicon Valley to pitch a new widget to some tech companies. You've booked three meetings today. You walk into your first meeting. There are twenty white men around the table, waiting to hear your pitch. What do you think about that?

Second meeting. There are twenty people again, but this time, five are white men, five are Asian men and ten are black women. What do you think about that?

Third meeting. This one's a smaller group of eight, and they're all black women. What do you think about that?

I'll offer the most likely answers to the three questions. 1: Nothing. You don't think anything about it, and just make your pitch. 2: "Uh. That's odd. There must be some kind of quota thing here." You hesitate for a moment while you process it and then make your pitch. 3: "WTF?" You wonder if you should bother making your pitch.

Now, here's the thing. Silicon Valley's a big place, and even with the current overall demographics, all three of those scenarios are statistically possible. If you're a tech person who understands probabilities and you also really "don't see race or gender," you wouldn't think anything about any of those scenarios. You'd just make your pitch, because you've got widgets to move.

Now, before you get on here and claim you'd be the one who just makes the pitch to all three meetings, don't lie to yourself. And if you know you're lying to yourself, don't get on here and lie to everybody else.