Denise Young Smith Takes on New Role as VP of Diversity and Inclusion at Apple

[BarracksSi]

The United States is a historically white nation, yes. What do you fail to comprehend about that?

I don't think you have any idea of how it became that way.

Where do we start? Should we remind you about how we had the US Army go and kill all the Indians (with a side tactic of systematic slaughter of buffalo)? Or that we passed legislation to block all immigration from China? Or it used to be the law of the land that black-colored people were only 1/3 human and, therefore, did not qualify to vote?

 

[Paul Dawkins]

Why are we focusing on race? Diversity refers to race, ethnicity, gender, educational background, sexual orientation, veteran status, disability status, etc. The idea is that a more diverse group (according to the labels above) are more likely to bring new ideas to the table compared to a homogeneous group that is more likely to have similar backgrounds.

Because it is just as irrelevant. All i see is people, i don't see colour, i don't see gender, sexual orientation etc., I see people and i judge people based on their views and opinions and their expertise. I'm sick of lazy people whining. I'm sick of social justice. I believe everyoe should have a chance to work hard and reach their goals, but not these artificial quotas to make statistics look better.

Yes, there are bad people in this world and there is injustice. Bad things happen to good people, but the world is not perfect, it can't be and it shouldn't be perfect.

 

[Reach9]

Then we simply fundamentally disagree.

I see a world that is getting better at this, but where the problem of inequality runs deep, and starts from an early age (still).

We're only just getting started, and it's gonna be a bumpy ride. I'm in it for the long haul though.

There is nothing wrong with inequality if it's by choice. Everything doesn't have to be 'equal'.

Human beings are born with different capacities*, if we're free then we're not equal, and if we're equal then we're not free.

*amongst other things

So you're basically just denying that there's a problem then.

In that case you're part of the reason why we still need roles like VP of D&I, and people like Denise. That's the great irony here — you hate these roles, you shout that it's "PC nonsense", but attitudes like yours are what makes these roles necessary and keeps them around.

Congratulations on feeding your own source of misery!

Sorry you just can't make up problems and made up 'solutions', and when people question those 'solutions' you can't say 'attitudes like yours prove that the problem is real'. That doesn't make sense.

 

[HopefulHumanist]

ITT: Sheltered people who believe that hiring is a perfect meritocracy. They either have never met anyone with explicit or implicit biases or are just pretending they don't exist. My money's on the latter.

 

[Paul Dawkins]

ITT: Sheltered people who believe that hiring is a perfect meritocracy. They either have never met anyone with explicit or implicit biases or are just pretending they don't exist. My money's on the latter.

We all are biased, there is no need to point the obvious you know.

 

[RichTF]

Ok, i'll play this stupid game. Can you answer me one question - What is justice?

Justice is usually discussed in legal terms, but I guess here you're being more philosophical. So in that context, it's about an individual being rewarded/punished based on specific actions/decisions made by them.

This is a separate (but not unrelated) topic to equality and the many -isms/-phobias that are relevant to this thread.

Equality is about society. It's about power. It's about opportunity, and big-picture fairness.

Let's see if I can think of an example to highlight the difference. For the sake of argument, let's say that we do in fact live in a world filled with inequality, where being a white male gives me a better chance at getting a job, on average, compared to someone who is black, or a woman, or both (there are many other categories of inequality, but these two are well known examples).

Now, in this world there are however some companies who acknowledge this inequality, and seek to address it by pushing forward opportunities for people who are black, or a woman.

I apply for a job at one of those companies. I am skilled, and qualified. But the job goes to someone who is skilled and qualified, and is also black, or a woman, and has benefitted from these opportunities provided by this company.

This may seem like an injustice to me, looked at in isolation. And maybe it really is. However, it does not exist in isolation. As a white man, I can go to any of those other companies, the ones that do not recognise the problem in this world and do not choose to do anything to change it. At those companies, which are the majority, I can more easily get a job than someone who is black, or a woman. So in this wider world, even with this one instance of "injustice", I am still more likely to succeed. I am still at an advantage. I still have more option, more opportunities, simply because I'm a white man. So there is still inequality in my favour, regardless of justice.

Now this world I described, is of course the one I believe we really do live in. Maybe you disagree, in which case I doubt we can reach a common ground within the confines of this forum. But it's the world I see when I look around me, and the problem of inequality is the one that causes the most problems to the most people, even when you take occasional instances of personal injustice into account.

Inequality is everywhere, and it's concrete. Injustice (in this specific context) is isolated, and more often limited to thought-experiments than real-world examples.

 

[JeffyTheQuik]

According to Apple's latest worldwide diversity numbers, the company is 68 percent male and 32 percent female, while in the U.S., employees are 56 percent white, 19 percent Asian, 12 percent Hispanic, and nine percent black.

All of them human.

It may sound naive, but when I'm in a room full of people, I don't bucket people.

 

[Paul Dawkins]

Justice is usually discussed in legal terms, but I guess here you're being more philosophical. So in that context, it's about an individual being rewarded/punished based on specific actions/decisions made by them.

Ok, let's keep this short and to the point. Now, can you tell me what is social justice?

 

[theBostonian]

So, what about Native Americans?

To answer your original question, this country is founded on racist, sexist, and bigoted systems. Those systems don't just die with time. There is work that needs to be done to break those systems down and create an equitable and inclusive environment for everyone that lives here. I can't comprehend why white people feel personally attacked when minorities want to break down historically racist and sexist systems. It's almost as if you want things to stay the exact same.

The native Americans didn't found the United States, it was founded by colonists who lived on unclaimed land. It's not a nation of immigrants and in any case the US isn't the only white country on the planet my OP applies to. I don't know why the other poster was fixated on that.

Do you honestly believe that if the whites were dispossessed and turned into a minority, replaced by non-whites, that their countries will retain the same character? That's fanciful thinking quite honestly.

So because of perceived historical slights whites can morally be ethnically cleansed? Still no straight answer.

 

[Reach9]

ITT: Sheltered people who believe that hiring is a perfect meritocracy. They either have never met anyone with explicit or implicit biases or are just pretending they don't exist. My money's on the latter.

Everybody has biases, and sure we can do things to improve hiring. However, the answer isn't to get rid of meritocracy altogether. Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater, right?

You don't solve discrimination, by discriminating.

 

[RichTF]

Ok, let's keep this short and to the point. Now, can you tell me what is social justice?

I'm happy with my long answer, thanks.

 

[AlexH]

Well this thread escalated quickly...

 

[Paul Dawkins]

I'm happy with my long answer, thanks.

Social justice is .....

 

[djcerla]

Please let a real CEO be installed at Apple. What is going on in Cupertino?

They're just fine, as the most valuable and profitable company in the world, with the highest customer satisfaction ever seen.

 

[Paul Dawkins]

Justice is usually discussed in legal terms, but I guess here you're being more philosophical. So in that context, it's about an individual being rewarded/punished based on specific actions/decisions made by them.

This is a separate (but not unrelated) topic to equality and the many -isms/-phobias that are relevant to this thread.

Equality is about society. It's about power. It's about opportunity, and big-picture fairness.

Let's see if I can think of an example to highlight the difference. For the sake of argument, let's say that we do in fact live in a world filled with inequality, where being a white male gives me a better chance at getting a job, on average, compared to someone who is black, or a woman, or both (there are many other categories of inequality, but these two are well known examples).

Now, in this world there are however some companies who acknowledge this inequality, and seek to address it by pushing forward opportunities for people who are black, or a woman.

I apply for a job at one of those companies. I am skilled, and qualified. But the job goes to someone who is skilled and qualified, and is also black, or a woman, and has benefitted from these opportunities provided by this company.

This may seem like an injustice to me, looked at in isolation. And maybe it really is. However, it does not exist in isolation. As a white man, I can go to any of those other companies, the ones that do not recognise the problem in this world and do not choose to do anything to change it. At those companies, which are the majority, I can more easily get a job than someone who is black, or a woman. So in this wider world, even with this one instance of "injustice", I am still more likely to succeed. I am still at an advantage. I still have more option, more opportunities, simply because I'm a white man. So there is still inequality in my favour, regardless of justice.

Now this world I described, is of course the one I believe we really do live in. Maybe you disagree, in which case I doubt we can reach a common ground within the confines of this forum. But it's the world I see when I look around me, and the problem of inequality is the one that causes the most problems to the most people, even when you take occasional instances of personal injustice into account.

Inequality is everywhere, and it's concrete. Injustice (in this specific context) is isolated, and more often limited to thought-experiments than real-world examples.

I just finished reading your nonsense and this was the most idiotic thing i have done.

 

[JPSaltzman]

Queen Latifah! You're back!

 

[Reach9]

The only accurate diversity is diversity of character and experience.

If race, or color is used, that is stereotyping. Do you need Asians because well, Asians bring "x" to the discussion because all those Asians are all alike so we need some of them to provide "x". Same for skin colors or any other superficial human characteristic. Do we need black or brown employees so that we get "y" from black or brown people because only black or brown people have "y". Whatever those x or y characteristics are defined as, you only get that by assuming those races or skin colors are all alike and bring that to the table by the nature of their skin color or race. That is assuming who people are based on skin or race.

I've met bikers who are gentle giants. Dainty women in business suits that are venomous demons. I've seen strong men more feminine than ladies and women who would make me back down from a fight with them. I've seen black people called white and white people who black people say are more black than they are.

So what is diversity? I argue it neither skin color nor race, it is a characteristic that can only be measured by finding out who someone is. I wonder if that is how Apple will add diversity to their company or if they are going to give us numbers in the future that only talk about sex, color or race.

Agreed. The only diversity that is important is diversity of thought, not our immutable traits.

 

[Mactendo]

VP of Diversity... Peak idiocy...
How about VP of Good Products or VP of New Macs? VP of Innovation and VP of Common Sense are what Apple needs these days.
Cook should leave.

 

[bollman]

Look at this page:
https://www.apple.com/pr/bios/
and you'll understand that dear Denise probably has the toughest job at Apple.
Great work at the diversity there Tim!

 

[doelcm82]

All of them human.

It may sound naive, but when I'm in a room full of people, I don't bucket people.

Having that attitude is a plus if the room is full of job applicants and you're the one in charge of hiring. On the other hand, if you're not in charge of hiring but you are in charge of diversity, it's a minus. Some of the people who do the hiring may be systematically discriminating against certain groups, and if you don't perceive the problem you are completely unqualified to fix it.

 

[centauratlas]

So, more diverse emoji too?

Yeah, where are the ones with blue eyes? It is discrimination at its finest. Racists.
[doublepost=1495566255][/doublepost]

If she can bring in more qualified, minority applicants who have the skills to do excellent work that would otherwise have been passed over, then this is a good move.

My understanding of the problem at tech companies is that members of the targeted minority groups don't possess these skills or are uninterested so that issue would need to be addressed first.

We hear about the "greedy companies" and yet in the same breath we are expected to believe that they value racism more than their greed.

Just face the facts: skin color, eye color, hair color and other such nonsense don't matter one bit to most people except the race baiting hustlers.

 

[Mac'nCheese]

I normally scroll and keep on moving with my day but the ignorance in this thread is VERY alarming.

A few things:

1) Diversity & Inclusion does NOT mean you have to hire minorities. It encompasses so much, but if we are talking about the interview process, most D&I offices simply want hiring managers to see a number of women and minorities that is proportionate to the public. If 30% of women have degrees similar to the ones Apple looks for, but hiring managers are only seeing 10% of women in interviews, then there could be an issue there.

As far as Apple already being diverse, does anyone on a MR message board have access to their internal numbers? I'm SURE their retail division is super diverse. Is their corporate division? Is their sales division? Open your minds.

Finally, why would any of you hate on the idea of wanting to be inclusive of all cultures? I can't wrap my head around someone simply not wanting to be inclusive of differences in the workplace, so I hope someone can help me out there.

I don't think people are hating on the idea of being inclusive. They are hating on the idea that inclusion should be something that happens by force and not naturally. If a company hires the best person for the job, diversity should just happen on its on. By making sure there is this many of this type of person and that type of person, its forced on people and isn't good for the workplace morale.

 

[827538]

VP of racism and anti-white male, anti-merit hiring in other words.

The only things that should matter when hiring and promoting should come from merit, experience and qualifications.

Why should a black person (or white person) be hired just because of their skin colour. Racism is rearing its ugly head again and again. The only way we resign racism to history is by moving past it.

As a young white male in 2017 I feel I'm going to be turned down over a job for a less qualified and experienced person simply for my skin colour and gender and I find it disgusting. What have I ever done wrong? For being born wrong.

F*** racism and f*** diversity quotas and inclusion ********. Merit is all the matters.

Dress this how you like but this woman's job is to promote racist and sexist ideas.

 

[techwhiz]

I have been in technology for more than 20 years and have been a director of technology at a public company. I am also a Principal level engineer. By the way I am also a minority. I didn't get where I am being a token anything and hold a MSEE along with patents in my field. I'm a Senior Member of the IEEE.

Now that being said. This industry has a huge problem with diversity. It has nothing to do with qualified minorities not having the skills and everything to do with people hiring people that look like them or talk like them. It's not overt racism or discrimination but more subtle. "You don't fit what we are looking for" is very common. I know multiple black senior people that have been at successful startups and have a demonstrated track record. At companies like Apple, Intel, Google, etc. The answer has been, "It doesn't look like a good fit." It hasn't been lack of qualifications for any of the candidates I know. I've had the same answer and it's definitely not lack of skill, enthusiasm or anything else.

 

[phillipduran]

I don't think you have any idea of how it became that way.

Where do we start? Should we remind you about how we had the US Army go and kill all the Indians (with a side tactic of systematic slaughter of buffalo)? Or that we passed legislation to block all immigration from China? Or it used to be the law of the land that black-colored people were only 1/3 human and, therefore, did not qualify to vote?

Do you need to be reminded that the British would pay indians to attack colonists and they did attack them? We can block immigration from anywhere at anytime. It is not a right of non citizens to be able to immigrate here, it is done as we see fit and has been shutdown completely several times during our history. Sometimes people from other nations need time to assimilate and learn the American way instead of flooding our nation and affecting our national character in a negative way by bringing incompatible morals into our nation such as believing women are property for example. Bring too many immigrants in and they will setup nations inside of our nation where things like this happen. We see that going on in Michigan right now.