Denise Young Smith Takes on New Role as VP of Diversity and Inclusion at Apple

[modemthug]

For people who question the need for this: Do you believe the lack of diversity in silicon valley (and other positions of power around the US) is simply a result of certain races simply not being as genetically smart or hard working as white people?

Yes

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minnesota_Transracial_Adoption_Study

 

[mwd25]

Good luck to her in her new role. The constant negative reactions to anything mentioning diversity and inclusion from some on these on these forums prove how much further society has to go on these issues - I for one am glad Apple appears to be paying attention to them.

I believe promoting diversity and inclusion is not only the right thing to, it's the smart thing to do. Wanting Apple to pay more attention to its computers (which I would agree with), or whatever else, doesn't mean they should (or have to) ignore social issues, both within the company and in a wider context - indeed, I believe the two things are complementary, not in opposition.

A diverse and inclusive company is one where ideas and creativity can flow more freely, staff will be happier, and everyone can concentrate on making great products. Isn't that what we all want?

These ideas "sound" really good........until you start really examining them. Lets say....apply the diversity manifesto to athletics. I think pro sports should be MORE diverse, its a place where we really need more diversity!!!! Its just not fair, we need to make sure we have more transgender people being represented in pro hockey, we need more Asian Americans in pro basketball, and god knows I should be allowed to play MLB. Who cares about drafting the absolute best player in the draft, it should be a DIVERSITY DRAFT!!!!! The Chicago Bulls need to get a Asian, A LGBT person, a Hispanic, and a couple women too. The simple fact that we, god forbid, hire the best most qualified person to play MLB just goes to show how far we still have to go. Hmmm.

 

[You are the One]

Completely disagree. The instant and overwhelming reaction to this story is an indication of how people feel about the real problem of identity politics.

Indeed. It's like the the argument that "many people are upset when the US bomb the **** out of innocent civilians all over the world, including women and children and that must mean that the US is doing something right since many object. Plus, those innocent civilians should know better than to live in the places we bomb into oblivion"

 

[SeattleMoose]

Just when I thought the world couldn't get any worse with all this sort of BS, more BS...piled ever higher.

I guess all those SJWs with degrees in "Gender Studies" and "Diversity" are getting hired after all.

Who needs more engineers at Apple when you can hire SJWs...

 

[Reach9]

First I would say that hiring tech in the Midwest is going to be hard no matter what. So your experience of not having the "luxury" to exclude qualified candidates of any color is unique. Here in SV where there is a large pool of candidates you will find that over time the makeup of a group or department starts to skew. If the hiring manager is East Indian you start to see more East Indian. Same for Chinese and other nationalities. So I'm not claiming overt racism. I'm saying that people have biases and hire people they think will "fit". Often that will be they person that looks or talks like them.

I have never experienced overt racism in career. It's has always been about the "fit". Google is skewed toward younger candidates because of "fit". People need to be made aware. Her job is about building a culture where all are welcome and also reaching out to colleges to help under represented people get introduced to the field.

Diversity is not about finding just a candidate. It's about making sure your workforce has people of diverse backgrounds, education and experience so that you have a mix of different ideas and novel solutions to problems. Having a narrow or small spectrum of people with similar experience and background limits the types of ideas and solutions you get.

Right. The most important diversity is the diversity of thought, and it is not tied to an individual's immutable traits, that's an inherently racist and sexist idea. I'm a non-white person, I can hang out with 3 white guys and we'll each come up with different types of ideas and solutions.
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Try this thought exercise:

You're in Silicon Valley to pitch a new widget to some tech companies. You've booked three meetings today. You walk into your first meeting. There are twenty white men around the table, waiting to hear your pitch. What do you think about that?

Second meeting. There are twenty people again, but this time, five are white men, five are Asian men and ten are black women. What do you think about that?

Third meeting. This one's a smaller group of eight, and they're all black women. What do you think about that?

I'll offer the most likely answers to the three questions. 1: Nothing. You don't think anything about it, and just make your pitch. 2: "Uh. That's odd. There must be some kind of quota thing here." You hesitate for a moment while you process it and then make your pitch. 3: "WTF?" You wonder if you should bother making your pitch.

Now, here's the thing. Silicon Valley's a big place, and even with the current overall demographics, all three of those scenarios are statistically possible. If you're a tech person who understands probabilities and you also really "don't see race or gender," you wouldn't think anything about any of those scenarios. You'd just make your pitch, because you've got widgets to move.

Now, before you get on here and claim you'd be the one who just makes the pitch to all three meetings, don't lie to yourself. And if you know you're lying to yourself, don't get on here and lie to everybody else.

Been there, done that. I'd make pitches to all three meetings. I'm sorry if that goes against your narrative, and challenges your victimhood ideas. You keep telling yourself that people who don't agree with you are lying.

 

[Toutou]

Vice President for Inclusion and Diversity

the company is 68 percent male and 32 percent female, while in the U.S., employees are 56 percent white, 19 percent Asian, 12 percent Hispanic, and nine percent black.

Sooo, this position's only goal is to sort people by their skin color and gender.

Ain't that, I dunno, the essence of racism and sexism?

 

[techwhiz]

The problem here is we have some people on this from with narrow minds. They can't get past the fact that what the discussion is about is diversity not quotas,, not set asides. It's about attracting under represented people into the field. Retaining those people and removing biases that would have those individuals not hired.

Nobody once said hire an unqualified candidate. But as soon as some of you hear diversity you assume unqualified.

Here is a scenario I have faced quite often.
People walk into a room. The meeting has been scheduled by the responsible engineer. The responsible engineer has Principal and Architect in their title. The assumption is the white or Asian guy is the person. They immediately start talking to those individuals. Both assumptions are incorrect; it's the black guy with almost 30 years in the industry. They assume the black guy can't be the smartest or the most experienced in the room. The Asian and white guy both reported to me.

Diversity is about changing perceptions and attitudes that influence hiring. It is not about hiring unqualified candidates.

 

[amegicfox]

Liberal SJW Tim Cook Apple's rules only for Americans:

1. Let's hire everyone based on their race, gender and religion in equal number regardless of qualification

2. Apple employees must support Tim Cook's political candidate and are discouraged to think differently

3. Tim enforces his idealism through e-mails, vacation on days he wants you to protest and endless press appearances and interviews

4. Base Apple hiring on affirmative action not on hard working and qualified individual action

5. Promote every social cause Tim Cook wants you to and support Tim's ideology to keep you job

 

[myrtlebee]

I'm pretty liberal, but I feel as if her job isn't necessary. If they have a policy not to discriminate or tolerate racism and actually follow it, why do they need a "VP of Diversity and Inclusion"? Let the HR department, management, etc. handle it. So many unnecessary fluff title positions in corporations and academia.

 

[iMi]

What Apple says: “Vice President of Diversity and Inclusion"

What Apple means: "Vice President of Racial Quotas, Racial Shaming (ie, so-called white privilege), and a thought-police culture that punishes employees if they dare step off the politically-correct line."

You lost me at the "so called white privilege."

 

[rotlex]

Ah diversity. The new politically correct word for discrimination.

 

[2010mini]

But weird and inexplicable things happen to all people nearly all the time. It's a problem if you are insecure about some characteristic or trait and rely on it as a reason to explain ambiguous situations. For example, one person might think it's their skin color, another their weight, or their voice, popularity, height, hobbies, education, age, marital status, acne...

There is nothing "ambiguous" about hearing your coworkers actually say you got your promotion due to AA. The idiots didn't know the person they were talking about was in her office and could hear every word. Excusing idiotic/bigoted behavior as "insecurities" is quite frankly unintelligent of you.

Just so you know. I am black. I have never had the experience of harassment by LEOs. Never been denied employment due to obvious bigotry. But as I mentioned before I have family and friends whom have had those experiences. These are all very educated professionals I am talking about. It is real. Not imagined.

 

[slimothy]

So you're basically just denying that there's a problem then.

In that case you're part of the reason why we still need roles like VP of D&I, and people like Denise. That's the great irony here — you hate these roles, you shout that it's "PC nonsense", but attitudes like yours are what makes these roles necessary and keeps them around.

Congratulations on feeding your own source of misery!

N...no... not quite buddy. I think you're a little misguided here. These roles are 100% PR/Marketing moves as others have stated. Completely useless. If a black guy wants to work for Apple, he may apply. If a woman wants to, she may also apply. No one is stopping them. It is the employer's discretion whether or not they're qualified for the job. That is how it works. If you don't believe me, you probably haven't been working in companies as an executive/manager. I can tell you from experience, this is how it works.

Everyone in this country that works hard CAN earn a living. Skin color makes 0 difference. Skill level and competency do. It's called being qualified for a job. That's all there is to it.

 

[blacktape242]

Liberal SJW Tim Cook Apple's rules only for Americans:

1. Let's hire everyone based on their race, gender and religion in equal number regardless of qualification

2. Apple employees must support Tim Cook's political candidate and are discouraged to thinks differently

3. Tim enforces his idealism through e-mails, vacation on days he wants you to protest and endless press appearances and inteviews

4. Base Apple hiring on affirmative action not on hard working and qualified individual action

5. Promote every social cause Tim Cook wants you too and support Tim's ideology to keep you job

sad thing is, most of this is probably correct.

 

[BarracksSi]

Colonists who lived on "unclaimed land"? You can't be serious.

I barely made it past that first sentence, too.

Then his second phrase — "It's not a nation of immigrants..." — is profoundly ignorant.

What has this guy been taught? Anything?

 

[Wayfarer]

For people who question the need for this: Do you believe the lack of diversity in silicon valley (and other positions of power around the US) is simply a result of certain races simply not being as genetically smart or hard working as white people?

Hmmmmm... I disagree. That notion is riduclous.

 

[BarracksSi]

Do you need to be reminded that the British would pay indians to attack colonists and they did attack them? We can block immigration from anywhere at anytime. It is not a right of non citizens to be able to immigrate here, it is done as we see fit and has been shutdown completely several times during our history. Sometimes people from other nations need time to assimilate and learn the American way instead of flooding our nation and affecting our national character in a negative way by bringing incompatible morals into our nation such as believing women are property for example. Bring too many immigrants in and they will setup nations inside of our nation where things like this happen. We see that going on in Michigan right now.

... Michigan???

What the hell planet are you living on?

"the British would pay Indians to attack colonists..." As if the US government targeted Native Americans only because of alleged collusion with the Brits? And that's why the US government made Native American religions illegal and forced their children into government-run boarding schools?

I've seen some idiocy here in PRSI, but some of you guys are astonishing. Your parents failed you.

 

[applezulu]

N...no... not quite buddy. I think you're a little misguided here. These roles are 100% PR/Marketing moves as others have stated. Completely useless. If a black guy wants to work for Apple, he may apply. If a woman wants to, she may also apply. No one is stopping them. It is the employer's discretion whether or not they're qualified for the job. That is how it works. If you don't believe me, you probably haven't been working in companies as an executive/manager. I can tell you from experience, this is how it works.

Everyone in this country that works hard CAN earn a living. Skin color makes 0 difference. Skill level and competency do. It's called being qualified for a job. That's all there is to it.

N...no. These roles are not PR and are actually needed, as others have stated. I can tell you from experience the world does not work as you have described. All kinds of people are discouraging and stopping minorities and women from applying, yourself included, by ignoring the challenges others face and pretending it's all so simple. If you don't believe me, you probably haven't been around non-male and non-white people in the workplace very much. It's quite simple to see and understand once you get your head... Nah. I'm not going to stoop to your level of condescension. I think I've made my point.

 

[Zombie Acorn]

Here's a hint, never answer what your race is on a work questionnaire, or answer black.

 

[amegicfox]

she looks like a younger/prettier maxine waters

 

[Will do good]

Since Apple and all other tech companies has mostly Asians as minority, they couldn't find one Asian as their VP of diversity? I would guess most diversity heads are mostly AA because it's the PC things to do.

 

[Kaibelf]

I don't understand this, does Apple bypass people with diverse backgrounds in favor of white people with the same experience or is Apple just trying to meet a quota?

Perhaps they are just making sure no one in a hiring position is avoiding taking on people of certain backgrounds or religions. It's sad, but it really does happen. A lot.
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Since Apple and all other tech companies has mostly Asians as minority, they couldn't find one Asian as their VP of diversity? I would guess most diversity heads are mostly AA because it's the PC things to do.

She's been in senior HR at Apple for 20 years. I'd say she has earned it. Or are you going to say she only has a job at all because of affirmative action next?

 

[Cineplex]

Justice is usually discussed in legal terms, but I guess here you're being more philosophical. So in that context, it's about an individual being rewarded/punished based on specific actions/decisions made by them.

This is a separate (but not unrelated) topic to equality and the many -isms/-phobias that are relevant to this thread.

Equality is about society. It's about power. It's about opportunity, and big-picture fairness.

Let's see if I can think of an example to highlight the difference. For the sake of argument, let's say that we do in fact live in a world filled with inequality, where being a white male gives me a better chance at getting a job, on average, compared to someone who is black, or a woman, or both (there are many other categories of inequality, but these two are well known examples).

Now, in this world there are however some companies who acknowledge this inequality, and seek to address it by pushing forward opportunities for people who are black, or a woman.

I apply for a job at one of those companies. I am skilled, and qualified. But the job goes to someone who is skilled and qualified, and is also black, or a woman, and has benefitted from these opportunities provided by this company.

This may seem like an injustice to me, looked at in isolation. And maybe it really is. However, it does not exist in isolation. As a white man, I can go to any of those other companies, the ones that do not recognise the problem in this world and do not choose to do anything to change it. At those companies, which are the majority, I can more easily get a job than someone who is black, or a woman. So in this wider world, even with this one instance of "injustice", I am still more likely to succeed. I am still at an advantage. I still have more option, more opportunities, simply because I'm a white man. So there is still inequality in my favour, regardless of justice.

Now this world I described, is of course the one I believe we really do live in. Maybe you disagree, in which case I doubt we can reach a common ground within the confines of this forum. But it's the world I see when I look around me, and the problem of inequality is the one that causes the most problems to the most people, even when you take occasional instances of personal injustice into account.

Inequality is everywhere, and it's concrete. Injustice (in this specific context) is isolated, and more often limited to thought-experiments than real-world examples.

Life in not fair and never will be. You can not control a single persons thoughts or know what's going on in their head. You will NEVER succeed in creating a fair world...never. Look at nature, that will teach you that life is not fair very quickly. A Chinese female that isn't a good programmer after 4 years of college should not be hired at Apple because she is a Chinese female. Race should have NOTHING to do with hiring. Qualifications, references, attitude, and work history should be the ONLY factors. By appointing people to oversee diversity....you're just forcing unqualified people in the door. That is the mission....to purposely fill spots with non-white males regardless of the qualifications. That is the ONLY thing this type of thinking does. If Apple isn't diverse than either there are not enough diverse people interested, there are not enough diverse people with skill, or Apple's hiring managers are racists. That is it. It can only be those three and I doubt they are racists based on my experiences working for them. Maybe in the UK you still have race problems...but the USA is not an inherently racist country, especially in the tech areas. I've worked with some pretty diverse people in my time and I've never seen a need for "diversity" managers.

Also, why is it always the people in the U.K. trying to tell us (in the USA) how to feel and what to do? You act like you understand America.....you didn't understand it in the 1600's and you clearly still don't.

 

[alex2792]

Generally, in the corporate environment diversity is code word for "white people need not apply" so the position should really be called VP of Diversity and Exclusion

 

[SeattleMoose]

Diversity is about changing perceptions and attitudes that influence hiring. It is not about hiring unqualified candidates.

Actually the ONLY thing that changes perceptions and attitudes are ACTIONS.
Obey the law, work/study hard, stay away from crime and drugs, and group reputation will improve.
If you are one of the "collateral" damage folks in a group, become a leader. Meet with other members of the group, address the perception problem, and work within the group/community to police bad actions and address the root of the problem.
Until then "forced diversity" is just seen as those who can't control their own actions as a people, demanding respect from those who do.

Respect can ONLY be earned via positive actions.