OMG! Fanboyism at its best!
Jony is only human and thus not only can, but most probably will (sooner or later) make mistakes. Some people would even argue he already did...
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Details on Jony Ive's 'Very, Very Flat' Design for iOS 7
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Jony is only human and thus not only can, but most probably will (sooner or later) make mistakes. Some people would even argue he already did...OMG! Fanboyism at its best!
Yeah, I'll say I'm kinda nervous about iOS7 judging from what I hear. Hopefully I'll be pleasantly surprised and it won't be what I'm thinking. And I'll admit, I like shiney and glossy. But I did see at least one image of some one's idea of flat (on a note app or something) that did look kinda nice. So maybe he'll make something nice looking. And I do think there is a place for skeumorphism too so hopefully he doesn't go too extreme and remove it everywhere (I'm mainly thinking ibooks. I do agree they really messed up the calendar/contacts app on both the mac and iOS but some of that isn't due to the skeumorphism but simply them trying to make it even more basic and taking away even more functionality, but some of the bad stuff is related to it. And not all of that could be fixed by changing the skin over it <- I did make the apps look back to silver rather than that ugly brown fake leather crap).
what do they mean by "flat"? is 2D not enough? flatness won't change the fact that iOS has very limited customizability. the best they could do at this point is copy Android.
I wonder who is making the complaints, though. Is it magazine/blog type critics or is the people using the devices? If it's the former, it's a load of crap, IMO. It's like letting a movie critic tell you if you're going to like a movie without watching it yourself. Sometimes they're right and sometimes they just have very different tastes. Personally, I hate how they screwed with iTunes, for example. The worst of it is they REMOVED certain features when they could have at least left an OPTION for them for those that prefer that view/mode (e.g. Album art in list mode and Cover Flow mode; together they provide no good view for looking at movies with their artwork (icons are way too big as well, making a bad situation unusable for any decent size library, IMO). The problem is many people liked SOME of the changes and didn't use others and so they get good feedback with a few "whiners" when in fact, they could have made everyone happy with just a few changes. I can only imagine what they might "remove" in iOS and you can either keep using an old version that won't support newer apps, etc. (hardware in iTunes' case) or put up with them taking out your favorite features because some design guy thought it would be "fresh".
Screw fresh. I want functional first and foremost. I didn't buy a Mac because I thought it had a "prettier" GUI than Windows. I bought a Mac because it had a BETTER GUI than Windows with fewer bugs at the time and virtually no malware to speak of. I don't mind improvements, but the day they try to make me use Launchpad instead of the Dock or folder menus might just be the day I leave OSX for good. What works for iOS and what works for OSX aren't necessarily the same thing, particularly for power users and I can just see some bright chap at Apple thinking Siri is good enough to do everything and would make iOS devices stand out (hey look, the first smart phone with NO SCREEN what-so-ever....
). What would make most everyone happy in both cases is to leave the old interface as a preference menu OPTION for those that prefer it. I know Apple has traditionally hated the idea of not having everyone's computer or gadget look just like Steve's personal one (ego maniac thinking), but Steve's gone and perhaps the BEST thing Apple could do is start to let its users have more CHOICES (from hardware to the interface) so you can do it your way instead of their way (kind of like how Burger King found its niche over McDonalds).
There's a new app in the AppStore called Dots that is a good example of flat design IMO. Letterpress, rdio, and the new songza app look pretty flat to me too.
I wonder who is making the complaints, though. Is it magazine/blog type critics or is the people using the devices? If it's the former, it's a load of crap, IMO. It's like letting a movie critic tell you if you're going to like a movie without watching it yourself. Sometimes they're right and sometimes they just have very different tastes. Personally, I hate how they screwed with iTunes, for example. The worst of it is they REMOVED certain features when they could have at least left an OPTION for them for those that prefer that view/mode (e.g. Album art in list mode and Cover Flow mode; together they provide no good view for looking at movies with their artwork (icons are way too big as well, making a bad situation unusable for any decent size library, IMO). The problem is many people liked SOME of the changes and didn't use others and so they get good feedback with a few "whiners" when in fact, they could have made everyone happy with just a few changes. I can only imagine what they might "remove" in iOS and you can either keep using an old version that won't support newer apps, etc. (hardware in iTunes' case) or put up with them taking out your favorite features because some design guy thought it would be "fresh".
Screw fresh. I want functional first and foremost. I didn't buy a Mac because I thought it had a "prettier" GUI than Windows. I bought a Mac because it had a BETTER GUI than Windows with fewer bugs at the time and virtually no malware to speak of. I don't mind improvements, but the day they try to make me use Launchpad instead of the Dock or folder menus might just be the day I leave OSX for good. What works for iOS and what works for OSX aren't necessarily the same thing, particularly for power users and I can just see some bright chap at Apple thinking Siri is good enough to do everything and would make iOS devices stand out (hey look, the first smart phone with NO SCREEN what-so-ever....
What would make most everyone happy in both cases is to leave the old interface as a preference menu OPTION for those that prefer it. I know Apple has traditionally hated the idea of not having everyone's computer or gadget look just like Steve's personal one (ego maniac thinking), but Steve's gone and perhaps the BEST thing Apple could do is start to let its users have more CHOICES (from hardware to the interface) so you can do it your way instead of their way (kind of like how Burger King found its niche over McDonalds).
Excellent points as per usual in a very enjoyable post. Remember this though Magnus, apple has a CEO currently who not too long ago claimed that he's only using the (piss poor for more than a few lines of text) on screen keyboard *exclusively*. How's that for us ******** our collective pants on where they might be heading... Cook claimed he doesn't actually use a mechanical keyboard anymore and he gets along just fine. I am quite sure though he doesn't dictate his emails to Siri but to some 20something graduate from his local gym, who despite the anabolic steroids, is a bit more accurate than Siri.
I am eagerly waiting what direction Ivy is going to be taking os x interface in. Despite his lackluster, imho, performance in terms of device design recently, I have a lot of faith in him, and I believe he's taken Steve's mantle, and there's always a thought about what his buddy would have done at the back of his head. Still, we have to see the first signs to be able to tell where it's all going to be heading. On another sorta positive note, I don't think any ui choices can be more inane than the ones that took place with the lions, so the only way is up I guess.
OMG! Fanboyism at its best!
My god.... I was just kidding
This is my hope. This is the essence of what Apple has done so well in the past. It was my illustration for how the mac os was simpler to use than Windows. Windows- 5 clicks, Mac- 3 clicks.
Less touches = easier.
I meant this fact, the date of his promotion doesn't change anything. It doesn't devalue his contribution to Apple.
How can anyone say they don't like something they have not seen? "flat" does not mean a copy or even a variation of the Windows 8 design.
No, and I don't think people are, at least not his overall contribution. But maps was quite embarrassing and that was his baby. It was over promised and under delivered. His presentation at WWDC showed off a flawless product and maps was/is far from it. According to John Gruber Apple's executive team was seething over the way maps played out, with Apple's product being the butt of jokes and Google's product getting huge accolades (not to mention how quickly it became the #1 downloaded app in the App Store). I think maps was Forstall's nail in the coffin. The fact that his fellow SVPs didn't get along with him probably made the decision easier.
*compares Win8 success to OSX success*
The difference is, I never said Microsoft was in trouble. The other poster said that Apple was in trouble. iOS's success suggests that Apple is not, in fact, in trouble.
I think we need to see some screenshots of the actual os before deciding if it will be a "miracle" or "Disaster". I don't like the sound of it, but I'm open as it could surprise me.
Maps issues were exagerrated by media. It wasn't a perfect product and had its problems, but it was not a total fail. A lot of people are successfully using it. Yes, all these reasons played out even the one that Scott didn't sign an apology email from Cook (and if this is true then it's beyond common sense) but it was a wrong decision. Everyone made mistakes, even Jobs and Cook.
I really want to see what iOS 7 looks like, it'll show if the future is safe.
The biggest problem with maps wasn't that it as good as the competition right at release. As has been said thousands of times already, it'd take years for Apple to catch up with Google on pure data and features.
No. The problem was it foisted upon us in lieu of an already perfectly functional, mature app. If Apple released Maps as a beta, either downloaded from the app store, or installed alongside the old Maps with iOS6, no one would've had a problem with it. They could've improved it over time, then released it as the default when it was a little more ready, instead of making us to use it now in an unfinished state.
It should've been opt in, not update to the latest version of iOS then realize your mistake after it's too late to do anything about it.
I wonder who is making the complaints, though. Is it magazine/blog type critics or is the people using the devices? If it's the former, it's a load of crap, IMO. It's like letting a movie critic tell you if you're going to like a movie without watching it yourself. Sometimes they're right and sometimes they just have very different tastes. Personally, I hate how they screwed with iTunes, for example. The worst of it is they REMOVED certain features when they could have at least left an OPTION for them for those that prefer that view/mode (e.g. Album art in list mode and Cover Flow mode; together they provide no good view for looking at movies with their artwork (icons are way too big as well, making a bad situation unusable for any decent size library, IMO). The problem is many people liked SOME of the changes and didn't use others and so they get good feedback with a few "whiners" when in fact, they could have made everyone happy with just a few changes. I can only imagine what they might "remove" in iOS and you can either keep using an old version that won't support newer apps, etc. (hardware in iTunes' case) or put up with them taking out your favorite features because some design guy thought it would be "fresh".
Screw fresh. I want functional first and foremost. I didn't buy a Mac because I thought it had a "prettier" GUI than Windows. I bought a Mac because it had a BETTER GUI than Windows with fewer bugs at the time and virtually no malware to speak of. I don't mind improvements, but the day they try to make me use Launchpad instead of the Dock or folder menus might just be the day I leave OSX for good. What works for iOS and what works for OSX aren't necessarily the same thing, particularly for power users and I can just see some bright chap at Apple thinking Siri is good enough to do everything and would make iOS devices stand out (hey look, the first smart phone with NO SCREEN what-so-ever....
What would make most everyone happy in both cases is to leave the old interface as a preference menu OPTION for those that prefer it. I know Apple has traditionally hated the idea of not having everyone's computer or gadget look just like Steve's personal one (ego maniac thinking), but Steve's gone and perhaps the BEST thing Apple could do is start to let its users have more CHOICES (from hardware to the interface) so you can do it your way instead of their way (kind of like how Burger King found its niche over McDonalds).
Won't happen. The words option and choice didn't exist in Steve Jobs' vocabulary which effectively led other apple execs and apple consumers to believe the same thing.
When Apple got rid of Expose in favour of Mission Control, they also removed the feature where all application windows were shown separately. Instead, they grouped all application windows per app. When I among others voiced our need to have the OPTION in system preferences to ungroup these windows using hot corners, a LOT of members here on the forum BLASTED us for this request.
Whats happened to the apple community since the explosion of the iPod is absolutely disgusting. Theres no room for 'thinking different', too many people believe everything apple does as the word of god and theres no way to do things catered to anyone single persons preference. Different needs for different users. Hence why I use Android (SwiftKey is a big reason, as I struggle to type on touch screens). Whats infuriating is that these preferences are typically branded as fanboyism.
When Forstall demoed maps at WWDC he didn't treat it as a beta-like product. He didn't try to dampen expectations. He over promised and undersold. I hate the whole "Steve Jobs would have...", but in this case I don't think he wouldn't have oversold the product. He might have pitched it as a beta product even if they didn't officially treat it as such.
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Yes but maps was one of THE features of iOS 7. It needed to be more than just OK. Especially since it was replacing something that was quite good. And maybe it worked well for some inside the US but worldwide it was pretty bad.
OMG! Fanboyism at its best!
Ive has master skills but even with that he knows he needs to stay very careful..is a very delicate moment ..,after the Jobs Farewell..,after the Forstall Maps mistake..this is a very intense duty ,a crossroad,where he must mix harmonically the very best of the past with the ..next shiny future..givin a solid base to face competitors in the next years without looking obsolete or just a mere upgrade or a re-design such with some cars re-arranged before the next model launch just to end the remaining stocks.
Just one month...its easy to say we'll see a lot of Rumors between here and WWDC.
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Lets not overstate how good the old App was. For me and many others, the new app was a huge improvement.
Very true. The new maps app is actually pretty great. I prefer it over the old version and the new Google Maps (the 15 taps to start simple navigation drives me insane). It's the accuracy and availability of data that is the issue.
If Apple released an inferior maps app and made it optional, nobody would use it, plain and simple.
That's not the way Apple does things, for better or worse. That's the power of having full control of their OS with no option for 3rd parties to tinker with it. Just imagine, with a single OS update, Apple effortlessly rolled out maps and passbook to millions of iphone users within days.
Apple typically makes a clean break with features they want to do away with by excluding it in the newer products and rapidly obsoleting it. It sucks in the short run, but will all but force people to adopt their newer standards, which in turn drives up its adoption rate and force it to evolve faster.
Like it or not, that's uniquely Apple.
True, Flower.
Microsoft was well aware the only way they would get people to try the metro interface on their desktop machines was to force it down their throats.
8.1 should be bringing back the start button i think
Listening to coast to coast tonight. Someone just said that a picture of a rose is beautiful.
The word ROSE doesn't have the same impact i think.