Developer of Fake Driver's License App Responds to Apple

[philipk]

Sorry, but you're wrong. Laws have *very* specific proscriptions and criteria for determining whether or not a given pictorial representation of currency is considered counterfeit, or just fake. For example, I could *legally* photocopy or scan and print $50 bills all day long (even double-sided) so long as the image is at least 150% normal size.

You are right about size and wrong about double-sided.

I didn't want to highjack this thread by getting too specific. However, anything close to real money even if it has a picture of Ronald Reagan or Harry Truman is a problem.

http://prairielaw.com/forums/p/28794/144767.aspx

 

[reel2reel]

Looks like a stupid app for stupid people. Why doesn't the developer maybe spend some time coming up with something interesting or useful? Wow, what a concept.

Then again an app for stupid people means a LOT of money, because there are a lot of stupid people in the world.

 

[Fazzy]

Kind of rubbish having your app pulled on some politicians say so. Its been around for two ears, why all the attention now? And I don't think anyone would be fooled into thinking it could actually be used as a legit driver license

 

[zoetmb]

Low quality prints shouldn't trick anyone - if it does and really effects our national security, than this country has a bigger problem than this app


.. and again: You can get better results by just using Photoshop.

My New York State drivers license looks pretty low-res to me. However, it's printed on a card that is matte on the front and plastic glossy on the back and there's all kinds of currency-type images in the background printed with special reflective inks which should make it easy to identify a fake.

However...I bet there are some States that issue very low tech driver's licenses and I don't think most police officers know what the licenses are supposed to look like of all 50 states. Therefore, it might be hard for the average cop to identify a fake, especially if it's not from a large or neighboring state.

I was stopped in Massachusettes once by a trooper who told me that my registration was not a legitimate document. It actually was, but he didn't know the difference.

Futhermore, review by a police officer is not the only issue. A fake ID can also be used to drink illegally, etc. And being able to do the same thing better on Photoshop is not the point. The average kid doesn't have Photoshop at home. But they can easily acquire an app that costs only several dollars.

So maybe the politician and Apple over-reacted, but they erred on the side of caution. You have to balance the positives of the app over the negatives. I don't see any positives. So a few people can't make a funny fake driver's license. Big deal. Look at the alternative: Apple tells the politician they're not removing the app from the store and someone uses the app to create a bad fake that gets past minimum wage airline security personnel and does something bad. Apple would never hear the end of it. Fox would be screaming for Apple to be charged for aiding a terrorist. I don't blame Apple for taking the easy way out.

 

[waldobushman]

Again Senators need to learn what their jobs are and Bob is an idiot who should be fired.

Senators know what their job is -- to get re-elected, to spend 70% of the time raising money, to spend the last 30% calling their big donors to ask them what loophole they want, and how to vote in order to keep the money flowing.

Casey is just doing the job he knows best.

 

[david803sc]

Sorry but you can email this and print it out, even better just take a screenshot of it, download it to a computer and edit it with photoshop, etc, etc it should be illegal to publish any document that is intended to look like an official government issued
ID, period.

This is just making it way to easy for this to be exploited by the criminals, things are bad enough, and this is just one more thing that is making it easier to exploit and all for commercial gain, profit of the publisher.

Terrorism, identify theft, underage alcohol and Tabasco purchases, are just some examples of what this could be used for with little effort on someone's part.

 

[admanimal]

Maybe the government should ban Photoshop, too. Last I checked that made much more convincing fakes.

Did you know that Photoshop already blocks you from printing currency if it isn't sufficiently altered? I'm sure they would do the same thing for licenses if there was some standard for them.

 

[brammp]

This App looks sooo stupid. Who would want to create Fake Mockup versions of the DL? Is it soo important that we must inform the millions of Macrumors Visitors... "hey Apple has pulled the Fake DL App!!!"??

But the senator is right, if you take a decently serios pic of yourself, and sign it properly. By pressing the Power/Home key, you can take a snapshop of your image, pass it to photoshop, crop it up, buy an expensive printer that can print out DL's, and TADAAAA... Fake ID.
You could have also done it without the app, but the app makes life a little easier.

Or.... Just scan an existing driver's license and change it in Photoshop. Then it would actually look authentic at least.

 

[nickdelvecchio]

Ha. their address is LITTERALLY 2 miles from me....

 

[wackymacky]

Just move it to Cydia and make versions for Roid. I love Apple, but sometimes their silly political policies get in the way of good old fashion common sense. (which is becoming a super power since its becoming hard to find in people these days)

Apple has to stop these knee-jerk reactions without as much as consulting the developer. Its irresponsible and disrespectful to users and developers alike.

I’m sure Apple has better things to do that worry about the legality of Apps that officials complain to Apple about.

This is rediculous. How are most people going to create them? Most licenses nowadays are on plastic with holographic text and designs on them. Dont think there's any printer out there that can mimick. If they're so concerned they'd stop the counterfeiters out of China making ones that look almost identical to the real ones.

No printer out there?

You can buy on ebay the same commercial ID printers that are used by licensing bodies to print official license and IDs.

Though if to spend the cash on getting such a printer, I’m sure you would invest the energy to create a template that was very close to an original document.

 

[econgeek]

I am not surprised to see politician so casually violate people's rights.

I find it amazing, though, that people put up with it.

Even think that these politicians are decent people.

They're scum. They are parasites, and the human race will not advance until we eliminate their power.

 

[swingerofbirch]

With this reasoning, why not ban Photoshop from Macs?

Personally, I think it's the whole "app" craze, and senators want to somehow be involved in whatever is new. Tipper Gore wanted to censor rap music when it was the thing of the moment. Then came all the concern about Facebook when it was gaining momentum. And now it's "apps" even though applications have existed for a long time and most of them mimic what unregulated web-sites can and already do. I see it on morning talk shows all the time, where they have some huge contrived controversy over what a new app can do (usually involving drugs, sex, something or another), even though it's some sort of functionality web-sites have had for years. They just like saying the word "app" because consumers are into "apps" right now. Apple doesn't help the situation and encourages the madness by boasting about their 500 million apps, even though I would wager a good percentage of those are web-sites wrapped in applications. A bit off topic, but I would respect Apple more if they boasted a lower number of apps in the app store, and forced developers to rewrite apps as web-apps when possible.

 

[zachlegomaniac]

I think some of these legislators are starting to believe individuals having fun could pose threats to their constituents. It's actually quite unnerving to me.

 

[cutwheel]

Now I want to try the app

Never knew the app, but would like to try for fun. But where can I find it, in Cydia? We pay those ********* senators too damn high!

 

[JAT]

Yes. Anyone who posts in a thread by saying "who cares?", must themselves care enough to read and comment on the original story. So I'll amend my previous answer and add

3) You care

Yes, but "caring" enough to make a snarky comment on the net is far below normal usage of the word "care". Perhaps "notice" would be adequate.

 

[jons]

BTW

Most (All?) states are getting very artistic with their driver's licenses. Look at the fancy fonts and backgrounds.

Most (All?) of these state designs are COPYRIGHTED materials. Thus there is probably of very serious copyright violation with this app.

Except that the government cannot copyright it's work. It's public domain.

 

[0815]

Sorry but you can email this and print it out, even better just take a screenshot of it, download it to a computer and edit it with photoshop, etc, etc it should be illegal to publish any document that is intended to look like an official government issued
ID, period.

This is just making it way to easy for this to be exploited by the criminals, things are bad enough, and this is just one more thing that is making it easier to exploit and all for commercial gain, profit of the publisher.

Terrorism, identify theft, underage alcohol and Tabasco purchases, are just some examples of what this could be used for with little effort on someone's part.

Terrorists have better tools (and money) to make fake licenses ... this app is used by kids to have fun, not to make real looking licenses - it really can't be used to make real looking licenses. If they tabaco selling clerk doesn't recognize the fake in that one, the kids could also use any copier and scisors

 

[SuperCachetes]

With this reasoning, why not ban Photoshop from Macs?

Mostly because Photoshop is not singularly designed for counterfeiting, whether based on entertainment or illicit use.

If Photoshop was called "MoneyMaker CS5" and was automated to insert portraits from your hard drive into pre-loaded templates of currency from all around the world, it'd be a different story.

 

[international]

Focus on your job

I can’t believe the senator is spending his time on this. He needs to pay more attention to his actual job, and not a harmless app. This “ID” should never be mistaken by bouncers and such as they should know is not a legit ID since it is on a phone, and there are significant changes to it in comparison to a real ID. It’s a harmless funny app.

 

[thekev]

Terrorism, identify theft, underage alcohol and Tabasco purchases, are just some examples of what this could be used for with little effort on someone's part.

I'm wondering if your post is a silly joke given the long string of buzz words and "tabasco". That did make me laugh. Actually that makes me hope it was a joke. IDs really need things like watermarks and stuff. It's entirely possible to make a more convincing fake id without the app. The developer could probably just adjust a few things to quell complaints from idiotic congressmen with too much time on their hands. Really there's no excuse for official ids to lack any kind of security features.

I was stopped in Massachusettes once by a trooper who told me that my registration was not a legitimate document. It actually was, but he didn't know the difference.

Futhermore, review by a police officer is not the only issue. A fake ID can also be used to drink illegally, etc. And being able to do the same thing better on Photoshop is not the point. The average kid doesn't have Photoshop at home. But they can easily acquire an app that costs only several dollars.

Bleh at the incompetent cop. The problems you list aren't a problem with the app. They simply represent a failure on the part of government agencies creating these ids. In 2011 they really should "all" include security features. If anything complaints about the app just point this out. Nothing created by this silly app should actually appear convincing (even at a glance) compared to the real thing. It's not even difficult to replicate something equivalent to what is shown here. Anyone could do it.

 

[rlhamil]

Anyone that falls for such a fake ID, on a PHONE none the less deserves, to be fired as a bouncer, bartender or clerk at an alcohol store.

The app maker is right here.

Agreed. It's not malicious, it's cute (or some might find it so, anyway). Those that check IDs need some training though, because many people _are_ fooled by poor quality fakes, or even by fakes that aren't _designed_ to deceive.

 

[Hazkan]

Ok, so photoshop is extremely expensiv and impossible to get illegally. So why can't you do the same with the gimp and a scanner? Most people own a scanner and the Gimp is free and not too hard to use. Another option could be just a scanner and a pair of scizzors.

What good is an ID if you can't distinguish a real one from a fake? I certainly hope that people who need to check others ID get trained to do so and to recognise IDs from other states as well.

 

[0815]

Ok, so photoshop is extremely expensiv and impossible to get illegally. So why can't you do the same with the gimp and a scanner? Most people own a scanner and the Gimp is free and not too hard to use. Another option could be just a scanner and a pair of scizzors.

What good is an ID if you can't distinguish a real one from a fake? I certainly hope that people who need to check others ID get trained to do so and to recognise IDs from other states as well.

First off, Photoshop Elements is not that expensive and you can find license keys if you really want to. Anyway - if the only purpose of getting photopshop it to make fake licenses, just download the trial version and you have 30 days or so free use of it (Do it on a VM, you can do this endless times).

Anyway: yes any other photo app will do the same trick ... thing is that photoshop became a synonym for photo-manipulating-applications (sort of the golden standard) - but obviously any other free or paid half decent photo manipulation app in combination with a scanner will do the trick.

 

[CFreymarc]

You guys keep blaming some silly-assed Senator for this. He has no legal jurisdiction in the free market - just a scary pompous title.

Cowardly Apple is the one with no testicles and will continue to throw their developer base under the bus on these issues. Sometimes I think Apple forgets it's the consumer who fills their coffers with cash and not the government.

Amazing how Congress has time to chase crap like this.

Welcome to Capital Hill. This app is not going to die, it will move to other platforms. Also, I'm sure there are now plenty of copy-cat versions heading out with this publicity. Expect a bunch of fake-ID apps on Android and web-apps that can't be censored like this. This reminds me of those "decency hearings" about Rock and Roll music in the 50's. It did nothing but promote the whole genre. This Senator did the same thing.

 

[philipk]

Except that the government cannot copyright it's work. It's public domain.

Sorry you are wrong.

The U.S. Government can not copyright their work. However, they can transfer someone else's copyright to themselves.

That rule only applies on the federal level. States and Local governments are free to copyright whatever they want.

Drivers licenses are on the state level.

http://www.cendi.gov/publications/04-8copyright.html#313