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zhenya

macrumors 604
Jan 6, 2005
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They didn't mention it, and it could be included, but I'm going to guess not. It's something primarily useful to more serious athletes and the Apple Watch is really aimed at the mass market.
 

ronm99

macrumors 6502
Jan 13, 2012
334
83
Is one included?

It sure looks like it is not included which is a big enough disappointment to me that I won't be upgrading.

I use my watch for trail running (with lots of hills), and I bring along my phone mainly for the barometer. If I run without my phone, the calories I get credit for is about 20% less than if I bring my phone (even though the distance I get credit for is pretty much spot on).

I know that the numbers shouldn't really matter, but tracking the numbers gets me out running much more often than I would otherwise so I like to have accurate numbers.

Since I will still need to bring my phone along on my runs even with the new watch, I don't really see the point of upgrading (I am not a swimmer, and with my phone along, I'll have GPS anyway).

I'm kind of surprised that no barometer is included. I had one on a watch 25 years ago, so it is not really new technology. They also showcased a hiking app which is something that a barometer would be useful for.
 
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zhenya

macrumors 604
Jan 6, 2005
6,929
3,677
It sure looks like it is not included which is a big enough disappointment to me that I won't be upgrading.

I use my watch for trail running (with lots of hills), and I bring along my phone mainly for the barometer. If I run without my phone, the calories I get credit for is about 20% less than if I bring my phone (even though the distance I get credit for is pretty much spot on).

I know that the numbers shouldn't really matter, but tracking the numbers gets me out running much more often than I would otherwise so I like to have accurate numbers.

Since I will still need to bring my phone along on my runs even with the new watch, I don't really see the point of upgrading (I am not a swimmer, and with my phone along, I'll have GPS anyway).

What running app do you use that actually makes use of the phone's barometer?
 

exxxviii

macrumors 65816
May 20, 2015
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They didn't mention it, and it could be included, but I'm going to guess not. It's something primarily useful to more serious athletes and the Apple Watch is really aimed at the mass market.
Barometric altimeters are common in all of the activity trackers that count the number of flights of stairs you climb.
 
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zhenya

macrumors 604
Jan 6, 2005
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Barometric altimeters are common in all of the activity trackers that count the number of flights of stairs you climb.

I know some activity trackers use it, but I am not aware of any running specific apps that are using the altimeter. I'm sure that could have changed since last I looked seriously, just curious.
 

exxxviii

macrumors 65816
May 20, 2015
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I know some activity trackers use it, but I am not aware of any running specific apps that are using the altimeter. I'm sure that could have changed since last I looked seriously, just curious.
Yeah. The gist of my comment is that a barometric altimeter is table stakes for mid-grade trackers. It comes back to the AW as an activity tracker is missing a core feature that just about every tracker starting at $100 includes.

Interestingly, Garmin dropped the altimeter from their latest 735XT fitness watch. It was kind of an odd decision, and I debated a while before deciding to buy one. But ironically, altimeters are less useful for fitness, because all (as far as I know) analysis tools that receive the data do altitude correction anyway. I would not give up altimeter on a bike computer, because knowing road grade during the ride is pretty useful.
 

ronm99

macrumors 6502
Jan 13, 2012
334
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What running app do you use that actually makes use of the phone's barometer?

Apple's workout app uses it. Apple doesn't advertise that it does, and it doesn't show you the elevation climbed in the app, but it does take it into account when calculating the calories burned.

When I'm running on a trail, I burn as little as 30 calories / km when running downhill, and about 120 calories / km when running up a big hill.

If I don't take my phone with me, I burn exactly 59 calories / km regardless of the terrain that I run on.
 
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sean000

macrumors 68000
Jul 16, 2015
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Bellingham, WA
Yeah...even my inexpensive Fitbit One had a barometer. I noticed that when I switched from the Fitbit to my Apple Watch my typical reported steps were pretty close to what I would get from the same routine on my Fitbit. Stair flights climbed (according to the Health app) were significantly lower on average. This is because I climb a lot of stairs at home and at work when I don't have my iPhone with me. I'm just wearing the watch.
 

ronm99

macrumors 6502
Jan 13, 2012
334
83
Tech specs are up now (click on "compare models"). It doesn't mention a barometer under its list of sensors, so it seems that it does not have it. I guess I should be happy that I don't feel a need to shell out the money for a new watch now. I'll wait for "series 3".
 
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zhenya

macrumors 604
Jan 6, 2005
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Yeah. The gist of my comment is that a barometric altimeter is table stakes for mid-grade trackers. It comes back to the AW as an activity tracker is missing a core feature that just about every tracker starting at $100 includes.

Interestingly, Garmin dropped the altimeter from their latest 735XT fitness watch. It was kind of an odd decision, and I debated a while before deciding to buy one. But ironically, altimeters are less useful for fitness, because all (as far as I know) analysis tools that receive the data do altitude correction anyway. I would not give up altimeter on a bike computer, because knowing road grade during the ride is pretty useful.

Strava can do correction or not. If you have an altimeter in your device, it defaults to no correction, and my experience is that devices with a barometer are much more accurate for total elevation gained/lost than using the GPS correction. In fact many of the GPS methods, Strava's included, don't count any elevation change less than something like 30'. So they miss entirely all those small undulations on the trail, and if you do a workout of repeats on a small hill like that, it will record your elevation gain as zero.
 

CobraPA

macrumors 6502a
Mar 12, 2011
733
175
Lansdale, PA, USA
In fact many of the GPS methods, Strava's included, don't count any elevation change less than something like 30'. So they miss entirely all those small undulations on the trail, and if you do a workout of repeats on a small hill like that, it will record your elevation gain as zero.

Mostly because GPS vertical accuracy is pretty bad. 30' horizontally is decent accuracy, but vertically GPS is going to be in the 100' or more range in most situations (especially near the ground surface.) It's not good at all for stair climbing measurements, which is why the iPhone uses it's barometric altimeter for those measurements currently and the watch does not support measuring flights climbed/descended.
 

matrix07

macrumors G3
Jun 24, 2010
8,226
4,893
Wait! Why everybody is so sure it isn't included while the original ones have it?
 

Vihzel

macrumors 6502
Jul 9, 2010
385
43
Apple's workout app uses it. Apple doesn't advertise that it does, and it doesn't show you the elevation climbed in the app, but it does take it into account when calculating the calories burned.

When I'm running on a trail, I burn as little as 30 calories / km when running downhill, and about 120 calories / km when running up a big hill.

If I don't take my phone with me, I burn exactly 59 calories / km regardless of the terrain that I run on.

That's not the barometer increasing your calories. It's your increased heart rate when running uphill that is increasing it. There is no barometer in either the AW or AW S2. If the AW S2 had a barometer, Apple would have been sure to mention it as it is a strong advertising tool for people who exercise.
 
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matrix07

macrumors G3
Jun 24, 2010
8,226
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There is no barometer in either the AW

There is. You can have elevation data even when you paired original Watch with iPhone 5 which has no barometer. Why are there many wrong informations in this thread?
 

Vihzel

macrumors 6502
Jul 9, 2010
385
43
There is. You can have elevation data even when you paired original Watch with iPhone 5 which has no barometer. Why are there many wrong informations in this thread?

No there isn't. I know this because I run up and down stairs with my Apple Watch without my phone (use a small iPod nano attached to arm). The Health app will not have any flights of stairs recorded from the workout. Just a few days ago I did 40 flights of stairs and Health app only shows 7 from when I had my phone going up and down stairs at work.

Also, the iPhone 5 calculates elevation based on GPS. That's nothing secret.

It would genuinely shock me if Apple was keeping barometer sensors secret in the Apple Watch for whatever nonsensical reason, especially since they can easily market it towards people like me who do stairs multiple times a week. I can't think of any reason why Apple would purposely not mention anything regarding barometers if they existed in the Apple Watch, especially since it would basically just be another feature and make it more competitive against fitness bands/watches.

It would likely also calculate calories burned better if it senses that you go up and down many flights of stairs on a regular basis, which would give Apple another reason to mention barometers.

If you can prove me wrong, I'd be more than happy to be proven wrong because I'd love a barometer in my Apple Watch.
 
Last edited:

matrix07

macrumors G3
Jun 24, 2010
8,226
4,893
No there isn't. I know this because I run up and down stairs with my Apple Watch without my phone (use a small iPod nano attached to arm). The Health app will not have any flights of stairs recorded from the workout. Just a few days ago I did 40 flights of stairs and Health app only shows 7 from when I had my phone going up and down stairs at work.

iMore said:
What kinds of sensors does the Watch have?

Every Apple Watch, regardless of collection, comes equipped with a variety of sensors, including:

a heart rate sensor (for measuring your heart rate during activities)
accelerometer & gyroscope (for measuring steps, standing and sitting, and stairs climbed)
ambient light sensor (for saving the battery and keeping your screen dim when appropriate)

iMore said:
your heartbeat, step counts, stairs climbed, and stand-sit ratio is all stored locally while you're away from your iPhone, and will be uploaded to the Health app as soon as you're within pairing distance again.

Apple Watch FAQ

Are we talking about the same thing?
 

ronm99

macrumors 6502
Jan 13, 2012
334
83
That's not the barometer increasing your calories. It's your increased heart rate when running uphill that is increasing it. There is no barometer in either the AW or AW S2. If the AW S2 had a barometer, Apple would have been sure to mention it as it is a strong advertising tool for people who exercise.

I thought that the heart rate might make a difference as well, but if you read what I said, it is obvious that it doesn't. If I go for a run with my watch, but no phone, my calorie burn per km is EXACTLY 59 calories per km whether I go up hill or downhill. If I bring my phone with me, it varies from around 30 calories/km to 120 calories/km. Clearly it is something on the phone that is making the difference, and I doubt it is the GPS (since the distance is measured reasonably accurately by the watch).

Also, I said that the barometer is in the phone, and not the watch. That is why I am disappointed that the new watch does not have the barometer.
 

BrodieApple

macrumors 6502
Aug 16, 2015
280
417
Also, the iPhone 5 calculates elevation based on GPS. That's nothing secret.
Maybe the Watch can do that to then! That'd be good
[doublepost=1473493578][/doublepost]"accelerometer & gyroscope (for measuring steps, standing and sitting, and stairs climbed)" so maybe it can do it that way. so its already a thing without your phone? GPS or this, I'm happy if it can do it without the phone
 
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