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I miss the old Apple. We'd get zero bezels in an update and see new 14" and 16" MacBook Pros for around the same high-end price points. With the Tim Cook Apple we now keep the existing old ones, and get an extra 16" MacBook Pro Pro, for $3-4,000 instead. URG.

Yeah - this is the end game of not having the "Product Guy" at the top anymore.
It's definitely depressing to all of us who've been around for a long time.

I'd imagine anyone sort of 25 and under, not ever really knowing the different and former Apple, is likely more "thrilled" with it all.
 
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Actually, it was under Steve Jobs that the consumer/professional distinction was introduced on laptops. (Desktops already had it with the Performa and LC lines.)

A few years within the Jobs era, he made a very clear professional/consumer distinction. He literally put up this slide:

iBook turns 20: See Steve Jobs reveal the world's first ...'s first ...


The MacBook Air came three years before Steve Jobs died, so it's kind of weird to bring that up.

You are right, I did not remember that. But, as for Steve Jobs releasing the Air three years before he died, well... I suppose he was still active at the time of the release.

The 16-inch MacBook Pro is not intended for your personal needs, and a professional is probably gonna keep it for four years, put it on leasing, and spend $63 a month.

There is no 16-inch MacBook Pro yet, so you can never know. We can only speculate on how much it will cost and what is the audience it is target to. Or even if there will actually be a 16-inch MacBook Pro.

What I am saying is that there is an audience for 16-inch devices outside of the photo/video professional world. Consumers, prosumers and business professionals may benefit from a 16-inch laptop. If Apple launches one with very high-end specs and put a very expensive price tag on it, then it will alienate all those people.

Of course, I agree that a 16-inch laptop may be useful for photo/video pros, and they can certainly have a powerful version to suit their needs.

But there would be no harm in offering a powerful yet more mundane $2,500 version for people with lower requirements. We are not taking about the Mac Pro, which has an expensive motherboard and is aimed at pros. This is a laptop, a clamshell which can accommodate any configuration Apple decides to put inside of it.
 
@skaertus

I completely agree with you.
I would love a larger MacBook Air class device.

I also suspect older people and maybe even just those with not great vision would love to have a day to day computer that isn’t a powerhouse but does still have a large screen.
 
@skaertus

I completely agree with you.
I would love a larger MacBook Air class device.

I also suspect older people and maybe even just those with not great vision would love to have a day to day computer that isn’t a powerhouse but does still have a large screen.
Apple has never had a basic or low performance laptop with a large screen. They always put better processors in the larger screened models. There was a low end dual core 27" iMac, so I guess you can still hope for such a thing. Why not get a 13" MacBook Pro or Air and a AppleTV and Airplay to your big screen TV?
 
Why make a 16 inch which is just one inch more than the 15 inch? Just go back to making a 17 inch MacBook Pro.
One of two I own is still working thanks to its Nvidia GPU (mid-2010) model.
The last 17" with its AMD GPU blew out on me and when I boot I get evenly spaced vertical bars on the display. I am not a heavy graphics user so Apple could have easily fixed this "known" problem by providing a firmware update that would have forced the 17" with Thunderbolt to boot off the other graphics chip (Intel).
At least I could have continued to use it. Now all I have is the mid-2010 model with just FireWire.
I haven't bought (personally) any new MacBook Pros because of the keyboard issues and dead or quickly dying graphics cards. An intern at my employer bought the 15" and had to return the first and second (replacement) units. She finally got a unit that actually seemed to work. Quality control at Apple is dismal today, at least with their laptops and bending iPads. And their is no new real innovations coming from Apple since the passing of Steve Jobs. Tim Cook is no where close too being a Steve Jobs. As for the new iPhones, why buy one now when next year the iPhone 12 will have 5G wirelesss technology. At the high cost of cell phones today, unless you have a lot of cash to waste, better to wait for next years iPhones and iPads with 5G technology.
 
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I think 16 is going to be the new 15 and 14 is going to be the new 13.

I think they are keeping generally the same footprints and shrinking bezels to get more screen in the same general space and size categories is all.
 
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You are right, I did not remember that. But, as for Steve Jobs releasing the Air three years before he died, well... I suppose he was still active at the time of the release.

The point is it was near the end of his tenure. You said:

“The way I see it, after Steve Jobs returned to being CEO, Apple's MacBooks were not targeted at a specific audience. We had the MacBook Pro and the MacBook Air”

But for most of his time, there was the iBook and the PowerBook, which only became the MacBook and MacBook Pro almost a decade after he joined. The Air came even later than that.

And perhaps more to the point, with the exception of the 14-inch iBook, there was never a large consumer laptop under Jobs.

There is no 16-inch MacBook Pro yet, so you can never know. We can only speculate on how much it will cost and what is the audience it is target to. Or even if there will actually be a 16-inch MacBook Pro.

That’s all true, but you’re setting yourself up for disappointment if you expect anything other than a $2500-and-above model intended for professionals, prosumers, and other people willing to spend a fair amount of cash. That would’ve been equally true under Jobs, both in 1997 and in 2011.

It’s true of the iPad as well. The big one is a Pro model.

What I am saying is that there is an audience for 16-inch devices outside of the photo/video professional world. Consumers, prosumers and business professionals may benefit from a 16-inch laptop. If Apple launches one with very high-end specs and put a very expensive price tag on it, then it will alienate all those people.

True. But also, if they didn’t want to alienate people who want a cheap laptop, they could offer a $599 MacBook today. Or even $399. They could. Others do. There not interested in that segment.

We are not taking about the Mac Pro, which has an expensive motherboard and is aimed at pros.

But I do want to talk about the Mac Pro.

Right now and only since last year and only on the 15-inch, the MacBook Pro only goes up to 32 GiB RAM. That’s barely enough. The iMac Pro goes up to 128. The Mac Pro to 1.5 TiB. So you can put 48 times as much RAM in there.

That’s a discrepancy that’s not entirely unavoidable on a portable machine, but it’s too large. I absolutely do want the MacBook Pro to deserve its name and be the Pro to the Air, much like the iMac Pro is to the iMac, and the Mac Pro to the Mac mini. Offer 64 GiB, at least (that’s already half as much as the iMac Pro, hey!).
 
Don't know why they were there to begin with if there wasn't an imminent release.

So I guess once again Apple has 100% failed us, back to looking at a new ThinkPad I go.

I’m waiting from february, in my last workplace the company bring us a laptop but I’m now in a new one that don’t do it, so I can wait a few days more for the 16 MBP, if not, I will go for a thinkpad too.

Crossing my fingers very strong🤞🤞💪💪
 
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Don't know why they were there to begin with if there wasn't an imminent release.

So I guess once again Apple has 100% failed us, back to looking at a new ThinkPad I go.


Why don't you wait until the end of next week.

The rumors have been rampant that an MBP release is imminent. Even new AirPods are due to be announced.

If there is no press release by the end of next week then I would say look for something else. However, I am confident that the MBP will be announced by the end of the month.
 
The point is it was near the end of his tenure. You said:

“The way I see it, after Steve Jobs returned to being CEO, Apple's MacBooks were not targeted at a specific audience. We had the MacBook Pro and the MacBook Air”

But for most of his time, there was the iBook and the PowerBook, which only became the MacBook and MacBook Pro almost a decade after he joined. The Air came even later than that.

And perhaps more to the point, with the exception of the 14-inch iBook, there was never a large consumer laptop under Jobs.

Yes, I realize it was kind of out of context. The iBook and the PowerBook were two laptops aimed at different audiences. But at least Steve Jobs I have the impression that he vastly simplified the line of Macs.

That’s all true, but you’re setting yourself up for disappointment if you expect anything other than a $2500-and-above model intended for professionals, prosumers, and other people willing to spend a fair amount of cash. That would’ve been equally true under Jobs, both in 1997 and in 2011.

It’s true of the iPad as well. The big one is a Pro model.

Yes, Apple somehow has this idea that bigger always has to mean better and more expensive (with the exception perhaps of their 6.1-inch phones).

True. But also, if they didn’t want to alienate people who want a cheap laptop, they could offer a $599 MacBook today. Or even $399. They could. Others do. There not interested in that segment.

I think these are different segments.

Apple could offer a $399 or a $599 laptop. But then it would have to cut corners in terms of build quality, which is something Apple was never willing to do. A manufacturer will not be able to put an aluminum chassis, an IPS high-resolution screen, and a decent configuration, inside of a $599 machine.

It does not seem to be Apple's business here. I remember Apple being a company which does not necessarily offer the most expensive devices, but one which offers premium quality standards all over its line-up, and prices them accordingly.

The maxed-out 15-inch MacBook Pro costs $5,149 but it has the same build quality as the entry-level $1,299 MacBook Pro. They are both made with similar materials, and they both feel premium. The 15-inch has a much more powerful configuration, but that does not affect the quality of the screen or the chassis.

A $599 MacBook would not deliver these premium quality standard, so it is out of Apple's business.

But I do want to talk about the Mac Pro.

Right now and only since last year and only on the 15-inch, the MacBook Pro only goes up to 32 GiB RAM. That’s barely enough. The iMac Pro goes up to 128. The Mac Pro to 1.5 TiB. So you can put 48 times as much RAM in there.

That’s a discrepancy that’s not entirely unavoidable on a portable machine, but it’s too large. I absolutely do want the MacBook Pro to deserve its name and be the Pro to the Air, much like the iMac Pro is to the iMac, and the Mac Pro to the Mac mini. Offer 64 GiB, at least (that’s already half as much as the iMac Pro, hey!).

Well, I can understand you, and I suppose we all would like to cramp as much power as we want inside of a portable machine.

But a Mac Pro is a different beast, and it supports motherboards and processors which are specifically designed for this kind of computer. It is a desktop and it takes space because it needs to consume a lot of energy and dissipate a lot of heat.

A laptop is a portable machine and cannot even compete with this kind of computer. I am not sure the amount of RAM a laptop motherboard can support at this point. Apple has never put desktop motherboards in its laptops, and I suppose it will never do this. Apple cares about the battery life of its laptops, and will not put a lot of power which will drastically reduce it.

For many people, it is better to have a powerful desktop and a thin and lighter laptop which can handle things while they are traveling. This solution tends to be cheaper and more adequate than having a big bulky laptop which is extremely expensive and, at the same time, too heavy to carry around, miserable at battery life, and still less powerful than a desktop. Of course this solution would not fit people that are on the run all the time and need to carry all the power.

So, the "Pro" in the MacBook Pro is just a moniker that means it is a more powerful machine than the "Air". Perhaps like the iPhone Pro means it is more powerful than the regular iPhone, but not necessarily for professionals who need lots of power.

I do not think Apple will be able to offer such very high-end laptops unless it starts to produce its own chips to equip them.

As for Apple offering very powerful machines for professionals, I am not very sure about it. Apple turned into a company devoted to consumers. In addition to the iPhone, it is releasing now a streaming service. The focus has shifted. And very expensive professional products do not represent a business large enough to compete with iPhones or streaming videos.

If you look at the business aspect, perhaps it makes sense for Apple to offer high-end devices to showcase new tech, and to please a small amount of faithful professionals who still rely on its products, so it is able to keep its "premium" aura. As a business per se, I do not think Apple would care about the niche market for $5,000+ powerful large laptops.
 
Why don't you wait until the end of next week.

The rumors have been rampant that an MBP release is imminent. Even new AirPods are due to be announced.

If there is no press release by the end of next week then I would say look for something else. However, I am confident that the MBP will be announced by the end of the month.
Good thing I'm not going to have the money until next month anyway, I'll just keep licking pictures of computers until then!
 
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Doubts are building. I don't think Apple releases on weekends, which gives them Monday-Thursday to release it and the MP.
 
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I don't see why Apple couldn't have their private media briefings on Monday — like they did with the iMac Pro — and announce full pricing and general availability of the Mac Pro, show off the new 16-inch MacBook Pro and the AirPods Pro (or whatever they'll be called). Slam, bam, thank you ma'am.

Possible PR quotes:

"In addition to listening to what our pro customers wanted in the new Mac Pro, we were also working on addressing what they wanted in the MacBook Pro."

"The feedback our pro customers gave us was that they wanted a larger, brighter display, a physical escape key, a quieter keyboard with enhanced reliability and greater travel. And we're now offering them an even better refined thin and light portable."

"Our pro customers that do a lot of video and photo work and told us how important screen size is when in the field ..."
 
It’s a product launch, not a satellite. Why can’t they do it on Friday? Or the following week? Or the week after that?
 
Are you kidding me? Who in their right mind would buy this, let alone anyone here on the MacRumors forums has enough cash to buy this?
Steve Ballmer in the house!
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Good ol' DigiTimes...

22nd March: Announces AirPower to launch in 'Late March'
29th March: AirPower cancelled
...
21st October: Announces 16 inch MBP to launch in 'Late October'

Let's just wait and see
So one miss....you really digged deep...
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Don't know why they were there to begin with if there wasn't an imminent release.

So I guess once again Apple has 100% failed us, back to looking at a new ThinkPad I go.
Because Lenovo failed us since they took over from ibm?
Good luck with your thinkpad...
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You are right, I did not remember that. But, as for Steve Jobs releasing the Air three years before he died, well... I suppose he was still active at the time of the release.



There is no 16-inch MacBook Pro yet, so you can never know. We can only speculate on how much it will cost and what is the audience it is target to. Or even if there will actually be a 16-inch MacBook Pro.

What I am saying is that there is an audience for 16-inch devices outside of the photo/video professional world. Consumers, prosumers and business professionals may benefit from a 16-inch laptop. If Apple launches one with very high-end specs and put a very expensive price tag on it, then it will alienate all those people.

Of course, I agree that a 16-inch laptop may be useful for photo/video pros, and they can certainly have a powerful version to suit their needs.

But there would be no harm in offering a powerful yet more mundane $2,500 version for people with lower requirements. We are not taking about the Mac Pro, which has an expensive motherboard and is aimed at pros. This is a laptop, a clamshell which can accommodate any configuration Apple decides to put inside of it.
You just want cheaper products you can afford.
Apple didn’t get rich by doing what all the other companies are doing.
 
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Steve Ballmer in the house!
[automerge]1572174342[/automerge]

So one miss....you really digged deep...
[automerge]1572174466[/automerge]

Because Lenovo failed us since they took over from ibm?
Good luck with your thinkpad...
[automerge]1572174698[/automerge]

You just want cheaper products you can afford.
Apple didn’t get rich by doing what all the other companies are doing.


Nice post Steve!

I think we will finally hear something next week. Tuesday is the rumored day.
 
Don't know why they were there to begin with if there wasn't an imminent release.

So I guess once again Apple has 100% failed us, back to looking at a new ThinkPad I go.


How did Apple 100% fail you? I don't recall an official announcement of a 16" MacBook Pro to be released in October do you?

Your own expectations failed you.
 
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How did Apple 100% fail you? I don't recall an official announcement of a 16" MacBook Pro to be released in October do you?

Your own expectations failed you.
Apple failed me by releasing 4 years of **** products. They also failed every other real Mac fan, not the fanboys that blindly follow.

It's not a hard concept to grasp if you are capable of reasoning that is.
 
Apple failed me by releasing 4 years of **** products. They also failed every other real Mac fan, not the fanboys that blindly follow.

It's not a hard concept to grasp if you are capable of reasoning that is.
Oh spare me the drama. :rolleyes: Your silly comment was about a MacBook that wasn’t released like you hoped.
 
You just want cheaper products you can afford.
Apple didn’t get rich by doing what all the other companies are doing.

Well, of course I want products I can afford. Don't we all? I am yet to know someone who wants a company to release products he cannot afford.

I am not saying I want cheaper products. I am willing to pay a price that makes sense. I may want a 16-inch laptop and I am willing to pay for that. But perhaps I am not willing to pay for additional RAM, a very powerful video card, or storage that comes standard with this configuration. If it costs $3,000, I may consider it. If it costs $5,000, I will not buy it. Who knows? It has not even been released yet.

If it is too expensive, I will not buy it for another reason: I live in a poor country, in which the vast majority of people barely have means to buy any Apple product, and walking around with a high-end Apple machine means you have a target on your back. I do not want a gun pressed against my head, or someone threatening my life again; I do not recommend the experience, which is far worse and cannot be compensated by any good experience Apple products can bring. And I am not really buying an expensive 16-inch laptop to use it at home only; I would buy a desktop instead.

On another topic, I suppose Apple got this rich by offering its revolutionary iPhones for a $650 for years, which, although expensive for a phone, was a price that many people were willing to pay. Perhaps even more people than Apple could produce iPhones for. Apple certainly did not get this rich by selling Macs, which are somewhat of a niche product. And a $3,000 MacBook Pro would bring decreasing revenues to Apple; the margins would be high, but not that many would be sold to make a real difference in Apple's revenue.

If Apple decides to charge a million dollars for a new 16-inch MacBook Pro, perhaps there would still be some Apple evangelist willing to justify the price tag, even if not able to buy one. I am kind of agnostic and I will buy whatever is best for me. I am not in desperate need of a new computer, as I currently have five laptops and two desktops. But if Apple releases a laptop which really makes me drool over it (which it has not done for the last seven years), then I may buy it. But, as of now, offerings from other manufacturers seem more compelling to me, and I am talking about features such as battery life, size and weight, and not price. Apple has lost some ground in the computer world, and this is one of the reasons I think it should step down a little bit.
 
Stop repeating the same over and over again because there will be no October event this yet or else the invites would’ve already been sent. This new MacBook Pro could be released in March next year, at best.

Agreed. As I write this, it's Oct 27th, so obviously this isn't happening. I don't think Apple's ever released anything past the first week of November. And I can't remember the last time they released something in January, but it was probably the last year they were involved in Macworld. March seems like the next earliest we could realistically see a major product announcement.

But one wonders, then, if a March release would also translates to a processor change. So far, all the October rumours have suggested the larger MBP would arrive with the same chip sets currently available in the 15". But a March release would be a year out from Apple's last processor refresh in the pro line. It would make sense, if new chips were available, to offer a fully upgraded machine with all the bells and whistles. (Assuming, of course, they don't just want to d*ck us and do a body upgrade in March, then a processor upgrade in October so they can milk these incremental upgrades for all their worth, as been their wont in the Cook era.)


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Well realistically $3999 on a Macbook Pro sounds really insane. What makes it worth it though?

That's how much they cost now, once you get up to 8 cores, 32GB of RAM and a Pro Vega 20. And if you are buying the biggest MBP, those are likely specs you're at least considering. (Whether you can afford all of them is, as ever, another story.)
 
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