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Anytime Apple has a product that does not end in 9's price-wise it just means they are squeezing as much profit out of it as they can get away with. Good to see these things are down to what they should have started out as to begin with. Still don't know if I should spend the money on 1600 pixels on one monitor when I can get 2200 spread spread across two for less. I have to see these in person.
 
Chomolungma said:
I don't know if the computer and TV will ever be one. But it seems to be the fantasy of many guys (the straight variety?). Personally, I don't think it will ever work (for most people). I mean, come on, the TV is meant to be a relaxing furniture and the computer is meant for work.
What do I know.

-Chomo :D

Chomo- i think about this everyday, and I think they will always be distinct because the interaction is different. I do want separation between the TV and computer. I like having a big screen across from me ( my computer behind my living room sofa) while working on a monitor- peering over once in awhile....
 
So now the apple displays are simply very expensive instead of unreasonable. I can still pick up 2 17 inch LCDs with 600:1 contrast ratios (higher than apple offers which means the display's half life is longer, something that never affected crts) for under $550 with free shipping by simply looking around the internet for who has a sale today. Let's face it, if I can buy a second video card and 3 displays (which ends up giving roughly double the real estate of a 20") for less than $950 I don't think Apple has reached a competitive price point yet.

xsnightclub said:
The single button mouse is useless, to those who are to lazy to use their other hand.

Obviously you've never been eating lunch and working at your desk. I've got a drawer with 5 apple mice in it from each mac in the office, just think of the profit apple would make if they sold their own 3 button aftermarket...
 
alfismoney said:
So now the apple displays are simply very expensive instead of unreasonable. I can still pick up 2 17 inch LCDs with 600:1 contrast ratios (higher than apple offers which means the display's half life is longer, something that never affected crts) for under $550 with free shipping by simply looking around the internet for who has a sale today. Let's face it, if I can buy a second video card and 3 displays (which ends up giving roughly double the real estate of a 20") for less than $950 I don't think Apple has reached a competitive price point yet.



Obviously you've never been eating lunch and working at your desk. I've got a drawer with 5 apple mice in it from each mac in the office, just think of the profit apple would make if they sold their own 3 button aftermarket...

Yeah, there is zero demand for Apple mice on eBay, too many of them sitting in drawers.

I have three of them. I really love my Apple Keyboard though :)
 
I feel myself f**ked by apple

I can understand all those positive reactions about the price drop, but I feel myself f**ked for 100% with it. I've ordered my system end of June 2004.
A G5 dual 2.5/4Gb Ram/2x250Gb HD/2x30" displays.
I got my full order in November and now not even two month after I got my dream set-up they decide to lower the price of those expensive displays !!!!
If I knew this before this would save me around 2.000€.
So thank you very much Steve !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I never gonna order the new top products right away. It's better to wait half a year/ a year. It's saves you a lot of money :confused: :( :(
 
dogcowabunga said:
Speaking of bundles, I can easily envision a $999 bundle being offered, consisting of:

• iMac mini
• 15" LCD screen
• Bluetooth mouse & keyboard
• 20GB iPod
• inexpensive 3rd party inkjet printer

Such a bundle would be a VERY attractive package for college-bound students, families wanting to add a second full system to a household, etc.
What you're asking is basically a 15" PB with an ipod and inkjet thrown in. Not likely. On the other hand, you can get a 17" iMac G5 for $1199 edu. A better buy for college-bound students.
 
JGowan said:
It never fails. When someone starts really kicking Apple's @$$, you can almost always guarantee they're a "MACRUMORS NEWBIE" -- a PC troll trying to take some wind out of Apple's sail.

I have had the 22" Cinema Display, the 23" HD Display (old school style) and the current 23" HD Display and I must say that as a pro graphic artist, Apple's displays are the best. The color is about as rich as you can get.

Be gone, Troll -- Troll, be gone.

Well done, dear sir, well done.

I don't get this behavior either. Why are there so many Apple haters? What are people afraid of?

If you don't like Apple or the Mac, don't buy one.

But I would imagine the PC guys would want Apple to thrive for no other reason than it forces the oligopoly in the PC world to innovate more. And honestly, there is so little innovation now on the pc side of the house, they should be thankful to Apple, open source, et al., for the tiny competitive pressure Intel and MS and Dell feel at all.

Competition and choice is a good thing for consumers, regardless of the choice you make. Would people really prefer a tech world where your only choice was an Intel CPU, a box from Dell, and your software from Microsoft and Adobe? Is that a great situation for consumers?

Of course not. But why can't the haters see this?
 
WOOHOO, 20": $1599 AUD.
The Dell 20" is $1299.10 AUD excluding shipping.
Im going for the Apple now :D, it will just look so much better next to the PowerMac and is worth an extra $300 imo.
 
xsnightclub said:
The single button mouse is useless, to those who are to lazy to use their other hand.

Of course, you're damn right! And I should have the right to be lazy when I am. I, personally, love using commands. Besides confusing my friends while doing something on my iMac (and also with my PC back when I still used it ;)), it gets a lot of stuff done faster. But no matter what some people say, there's nothing wrong in contextual menus being accessed via a second mouse button.

So, you think I should be denied the right to have a two-button mouse "out-of-the-box", or bundled, or whatever, without having to feel bad about throwing away into a drawer a perfectly functional mouse?? It feels bad, and it's a waste of money... I bought a two-button mouse with scroll wheel from MacMice, which is a nicely built "rip-off" of the Apple Mouse, but at a cost...

I don't know if you read the first post that ignited, again, this debate; anyway, I'll spare you from doing that. What I said was that Apple should let you CHOOSE whatever Apple branded mouse you like, be it single-button wired, single-button BT, multi-button with scroll-pad thingies and god knows what else, etc, etc, etc. Unlike dontmatter, I'm not suggesting Apple should drop the single-button mouse concept altogether. I just think they should just add some other options, get it? ;)

Anyay, here's why I think that multi-button mice CAN be superior to single-button ones: other switchers, like me, find the control-click combination very awkward. Btw, I must say that I used the original Apple mouse for a few months and got quickly used to it. But I always felt I was missing something, until I finally got that new mouse. And I used Windows for many, many years and Mac OS X for more than one (and I love it) So, I KNOW what I'm talking about because I've used both kinds of mice and both OSes.

Have you ever thought that it IS INDEED very awkward for unexperienced users to combine keys and mouse clicks, perhaps even more than using secondary mouse-clicks? For designers and all pros that's a natural thing to do, we have to perform a lot more of those combinations, so we get used to them. But for most users, it's easier to either use either pure keyboard commands or dedicated mouse clicks, period. I've seen it myself, colleagues of mine learning how to use photoshop and vector drawing apps, getting confused about actions as trivial as "holding shift to constrain". Now imagine someone who only uses M$ Office or does some web browsing, who is unfamiliar with those tricks (except maybe when selecting text), but may find that extra button handy?

Just a practical example: I'm holding a sandwich and reading some news on the web, while chatting with someone. I want to paste some text into my buddy's window. I don't want to drop my sandwich so how can I do such thing with only one hand (and of course, without needing to drop the mouse and type commands)?

With a single-button mouse: Select, click on "Edit" menu, select "Copy", use the Exposé active corners to find his window (on the worst case scenario, press F9), select the input field, click on "Edit", select "Paste". Press enter!

What about a two-button mouse? Aha! Select the text, right-click, select "Copy". Use Exposé. Right-click on the input field, select "Paste", and Press enter!

Now, what about a multi-button mouse? Even quicker: select text, right-click, Copy, use Exposé with dedicated mouse button, right-click input field, select Paste, press Enter!

The three all look preety much the same, but if you read carefully, the last one is definitely the fastest (of course, I wrote that last sentence with no periods, to make it seem faster :cool:. But it is indeed faster).

Another thing: someone once told me (dunno if it's true) that Ctrl-clicking is good from an ergonomic standpoint because it forces people to keep both hands on the desk... But you know, If you force those unexperienced users to use Ctrl-clicking to open contextual menus, they will likely ignore that function altogether. Why do you think Apple introduced the "Actions" button in the Panther Finder!? The thing is, there's no way you can have "Action" buttons all over the interface in each program, that's just plain stupid (as it is with the Finder, but that's MHO because I use a two-button mouse and know how to use Ctrl-clicking anyway...). So, even Apple acknowledges that those users don't take full advantage of Contextual menus, thus sometimes laying only one hand on the desk. Huh, so much for the ergonomy concerns. :rolleyes: It's a lose-lose situation!

And now, the final stab! You're trying to do the same Copy-Paste thing holding a sandwich, this time on an Apple laptop. Ouch, now you have to reach the Edit menu using that tiny trackpad... :rolleyes: As for Exposé, you either reach the active corners also with the trackpad or go for the F keys. If Apple includes those nifty volume control and eject buttons on their keyboards, couldn't they include some dedicated Exposé keys next to the trackpad? Like, to make things a little bit easier? It's the same company that developed the clickwheel, damn it! It's true that having a lot of buttons with unidentifiable icons printed on them usually looks fugly and causes clutter... But EXPOSÉ! It has become ubiquitous, perhaps as much as volume control... (I'm ranting because I've been playing with a friend's iBook today, and I'm still thinking about the experience) 'nuff said </rant>

[edit] Hey, now that I thought again about the clickwheel (sorry for the long post guys, but I must add this :p), I started wondering... Apple could develop some sort of clickpad. A laptop touchpad with clickable corners! Now that would be sweet, since it could be configurable ;) Damn, I should apply for a patent! :D
 
gforce73111 said:
I can understand all those positive reactions about the price drop, but I feel myself f**ked for 100% with it. I've ordered my system end of June 2004.
A G5 dual 2.5/4Gb Ram/2x250Gb HD/2x30" displays.
I got my full order in November and now not even two month after I got my dream set-up they decide to lower the price of those expensive displays !!!!
If I knew this before this would save me around 2.000€.
So thank you very much Steve !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I never gonna order the new top products right away. It's better to wait half a year/ a year. It's saves you a lot of money :confused: :( :(
Dude, sorry to hear that you could've gotten it a lot cheaper, but you should've known that the displays (and the Dual2.5) where going to take quite a while to be ready, and you should also of known that technology drops in price, and improves over time.
 
Frobozz said:
If you want a monitor that is better than the Apple offering at 23", I suggest giving the HP L2335 a shot:

http://h18004.www1.hp.com/products/monitors/tft/l2335.html

It's a great monitor and costs $1,599 direct from HP. I have one and it's amazing. In fact, the HP has SVideo and Component Video inputs to compliment it's DVI and VGA inputs. That means it can be used as a regular TV monitor (in addition to an HDTV). It also has PIP, so you can watch TV and use your computer at the same time.

I got the monitor at www.pagecomputers.com for about $1,530 shipped. It looks even cheaper now:
http://www.pagecomputers.com/cgi-bin/page/B1332992.html

Looks like someone took a piece of glass and hung it on a fence post. Damn, native hdtv! Who would want to do some work. :cool:
 
"I wouldn't be surprised if keyboard and mice would only be bundled as an option."

Hopefully, as Apple's mice are worthless garbage (one button? what the heck, it slows down computer use so much. Even discounting that, they're uncomfortable due to the whole button is on the bottom thing.

As for displays, Apple won't make an affordable display to go with the rumored affordable Mac. Even an affordable Mac is so un-Apple-like I find it hard to believe (the iBook being the one exception - and also the Mac I own and love).
 
sushi said:
That is incorrect.

You can have an external monitor connected to the iMac G5.

http://www.apple.com/imac/specs.html

Sushi

Just for the record, the original poster I was responding too wanted to connect an Apple display which uses DVI. You can not connect it to an iMac. Other posters suggested you could convert with another adapter to go from VGA to DVI; those adapters are very expensive ($200-$300) plus $$ for the mini-VGA adapter; so I doubt it would work, and if it did, it would look like crap. So, I should have been more explicit that it doesn't have a DVI out and you won't be able to use it with an Apple monitor. :rolleyes:
 
aldo said:
The DVI cable actually carries both an analog and digital signal. You can just pick up an adaptor that 'converts' VGA to DVI for very cheap. I know all my graphics cards that I have bought for PCs over the years that have both a VGA and a DVI port have came with an adaptor.

I still think Apple should of put a VGA port on the monitor, considering it would of increased it's usefulness dramatically.

They are not cheap. VGA to DVI
 
If the news at MacWorld had been skimpy these items would have been announced by Jobs next week and not a week early. This lends credence to much better news coming out at macWorld on Tuesday Jan 11.

Yeah, that would be pretty sad if after his keynote, his "one more thing" was cheaper monitors. ;)
 
Does anyone have any info on the Stevenote being streamed in Quicktime?
It would be cool if it was streamed live instead of the delayed posting that has been the trend lately.
 
I heard lcd prices will drop dramatically in the first half of 2005. I will wait a little longer to save a lot.

40" lcd tv's go for 2000. Once the huge LCD plants start cranking out LCD's, then expect a super drop in price.
 
I plan to get a 15 inch PowerBook for when I go to university next year, I was looking around at displays, because while Ill probably wait 6-12 months theres a large possibility Ill want a second display to go with it. I don't care about PIP, ports etc. I just want a simple monitor, of a high quality, that will look good in my dorm (dudes, your room reflects on you, I dont want a woman looking at my monitor and thinking that Im cheap!) Apples back in the game! That 20 or maybe even 23 inch would be VERY nice.
 
dontmatter said:
2. Currency drops: this makes very little sense. I'm not an economics major or anything, but I think that if the US dollar is declining against world currencies, that makes goods made in the US cheaper elsewhere, and goods made elsewhere more expensive in the US. But apple doesn't make stuff in the US. The US dollar doesn't matter-what matters is asian currencies versus european currencies, which, to my knowledge, haven't been particularly different lately than before this price drop. The weak US dollar should mean price increases in the US, and hold steady everywhere else.

Hmm.. I must've missed where this issue came up earlier in the thread. Anyhoo, I *am* an Econ major. You're right that in theory declines of the USD relative to East Asian currencies should make electronics more expensive in the US. However, most East/South East Asian countries have currencies that are pegged to the USD, thus they fluctuate in sync with the dollar. Sadly, this means the US's supposedly coming currency crisis will have phenomenal world fallout -- if it does indeed come about.

But your premise that these price drops are unrelated to currency value is probably on target. Even if the weakening currency was having an adverse effect on electronics imports, the net effect would be *upwards*. The exchange rate would make electronics more expensive and importers would respond by cutting prices a bit to keep market share.

3. Monitor quality-it's a well known fact that stats are not the whole picture, and are manipulated to the highest numbers possible, even if it doesn't increase actual quality, because it will sell something.

This is REALLY true. I don't know much about how these monitors are rated, but after reading up on HDTV's I can tell you that it can be exceedingly deceptive. Just because one monitor has twice the rated contrast ratio of the other doesn't mean it has twice the contrast ratio.
 
julzmon said:
Yes I know HP has all those extra inputs. But I wonder how often will you watch tv in PIP on your monitor? I know I can just turn my head and see my regular tv. And if you are going to use it as a HD display... Are you going to put your computer desk in your living room where the stereo is and surround sound? I don't think so. Trying to reason with my self here :)

That's a very good question. I have mine set up next to another 18.1 inch LCD and I use a dual monitor setup in my bedroom/freelance work room. When I watch TV, I use the PIP. And, amazingly, I do. I have a second TiVo in my room and I plug the SVideo from that right into the L2335. In my case, buying this monitor prevented a need to buy a TV for my bedroom. So, I hear you on those points. In my case, it was a no brainer. The cost was no object, really... $1,500 vs. $2,000 (at the time) wasn't that big of a deal. It was the feature set. Apple fell short (this time.)

Now all I need is a dual 3.0 GHz G5 to go along with it.
 
Mainyehc said:
And now, the final stab! You're trying to do the same Copy-Paste thing holding a sandwich, this time on an Apple laptop. Ouch, now you have to reach the Edit menu using that tiny trackpad... :rolleyes: As for Exposé, you either reach the active corners also with the trackpad or go for the F keys. If Apple includes those nifty volume control and eject buttons on their keyboards, couldn't they include some dedicated Exposé keys next to the trackpad? Like, to make things a little bit easier? It's the same company that developed the clickwheel, damn it! It's true that having a lot of buttons with unidentifiable icons printed on them usually looks fugly and causes clutter... But EXPOSÉ! It has become ubiquitous, perhaps as much as volume control... (I'm ranting because I've been playing with a friend's iBook today, and I'm still thinking about the experience) 'nuff said </rant>

Specifically addressing the issue of efficiently using Expose with an iBook/PowerBook, the first thing any new Apple notebook owner should do is to download and install a utility called Sidetrack. It allows you to map the corners and edges of the trackpad to do various things, like act as scrolling areas, or to emulate mouse button clicks. I have the top-right corner of my 12" PowerBook pad mapped to mouse button 3, and the top-left corner of the pad mapped to mouse button 4. I also have the right edge of the pad acting as a vertical scroll area. By mapping Expose functions to mouse buttons 3 and 4 (tile all windows and show desktop in my case), I can get full use of Expose without my finger leaving the trackpad, or reaching for the keyboard with my other hand. I can't use my PowerBook without it :) Highly recommended.
 
SiliconAddict said:
:eek: If so Jobs will make little children and at least one grown man, me, cry.
icon_cry.gif


More accurately if he does that I will walk out into the parking lot of my building and scream until I'm horse. Better to have no headless Mac then one that is stuck at 640x480 or even 1024x768.

Check website statistics, and you'll see that while almost no one is using 640x480 anymore, quite a lot are still using 800x600 and 1024x768 (I'm in the last group, being stuck with a 15" monitor that won't go higher anyway).

At work, on a 17", I was using 1152x864 (1280x1024 was too high for my taste).

I don't see why Apple would lock the GPU in low resolutions anyway? :confused:
 
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