Grokgod said:
Wow dude, im excited for these pictures! When do you think you'll have them? As soon as you get the G5? Have fun with that!
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Do I sense a major price drop on the Cinema 20"?
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Wow dude, im excited for these pictures! When do you think you'll have them? As soon as you get the G5? Have fun with that!
sausages: Nobody here was talking about Dell computers. The discussion pertains to Dell-branded LCD monitors. Your rant reads like boilerplate but I give you credit for original thought in the second to last paragraph.
The point of this thread is speculation about pricing pressure possibly causing Apple to drop the price of the 20" ACD. Next time please have the courtesy of reading (not skimming) at least one post before sharing your wisdom. The ideas you presented regarding Apple quality, supporting Apple and so on were already posted by others.
As for your final point, here's a newsflash: Apple is also a capitalist machine.
The point of this thread is speculation about pricing pressure possibly causing Apple to drop the price of the 20" ACD. Next time please have the courtesy of reading (not skimming) at least one post before sharing your wisdom. The ideas you presented regarding Apple quality, supporting Apple and so on were already posted by others.
As for your final point, here's a newsflash: Apple is also a capitalist machine.
sausages said:www.dellrumors.com ?
lets all use dell computers and eat kraft dinner.
YAY!!!! dell has actually sells a product that's the cheapest in its equivilant market? that's just amazing...
unfortunately i'm not interested in buying a computer that depreciates in price as such an incredible rate. Sure, apple hardware is chronically expensive compared to pcs. apple will be able to reduce their hardware prices as their sales and market share increases. apple can't lower their prices to increase their sales because its too risky and there isn't enough profit margin....its an awkard position that you can help fix! buy apple!
at the end of the day, i guess you'd got to think about what sort of organisation you're supporting. apple is an innovative company which produces the great things i'm sure we're all aware of. dell has such an efficient production chain (that doesn't have many links at all!) that makes owning a computer much lighter on the peoples pockets, but doesn't offer anything new. with dells cheapness hurting apple and its innovation (as we've seen to date), if we all bought dell, new technology development would grind to a halt.
...if only the dell principle was applied to apple hardware, and dell used its market position to push more computer users into non-microsoft software and products (as we know them to date)
dell = capitalist machine, which in the end hurts the technological advancements which you're seeking in the first place.
Photo's comparing the two monitors.
Its a battle of beauty and the beast.
In one corner, The Beauty and fan fav~ Apple Cinema Display.
the original one not the pink hued alu clad newcomer_ blah.
In the other corner, The Beast! Dell's ugly needlessly two tone~ FPW
the new 20" widescreen, not one of the other squares_ spit.
Only the brightest and best in color and contrast will win this event.
Not for the quesy or the young.
Be there or forever be in doubt!
" Is a Cheap Dell monitor better than this extremely expensive Hype machine? I could have saved over $600 bucks!"
Dont let these word haunt you.
This isnt a bout with words that still leaves you thinking. Its a REAL comparison, no questions left unanswered like so many other reviews.
Leave the arena in certainty that you BET on the right or wrong machine.
Be there.....
uuhh Yea, I will post the pictures right after I get the G5.
Its in Anehiem somewhere right now.
Its a battle of beauty and the beast.
In one corner, The Beauty and fan fav~ Apple Cinema Display.
the original one not the pink hued alu clad newcomer_ blah.
In the other corner, The Beast! Dell's ugly needlessly two tone~ FPW
the new 20" widescreen, not one of the other squares_ spit.
Only the brightest and best in color and contrast will win this event.
Not for the quesy or the young.
Be there or forever be in doubt!
" Is a Cheap Dell monitor better than this extremely expensive Hype machine? I could have saved over $600 bucks!"
Dont let these word haunt you.
This isnt a bout with words that still leaves you thinking. Its a REAL comparison, no questions left unanswered like so many other reviews.
Leave the arena in certainty that you BET on the right or wrong machine.
Be there.....
uuhh Yea, I will post the pictures right after I get the G5.
Its in Anehiem somewhere right now.
Might be an idea for you to actually read, and understand what this thread is aboutsausages said:www.dellrumors.com ?
lets all use dell computers and eat kraft dinner.
YAY!!!! dell has actually sells a product that's the cheapest in its equivilant market? that's just amazing...
unfortunately i'm not interested in buying a computer that depreciates in price as such an incredible rate. Sure, apple hardware is chronically expensive compared to pcs. apple will be able to reduce their hardware prices as their sales and market share increases. apple can't lower their prices to increase their sales because its too risky and there isn't enough profit margin....its an awkard position that you can help fix! buy apple!
at the end of the day, i guess you'd got to think about what sort of organisation you're supporting. apple is an innovative company which produces the great things i'm sure we're all aware of. dell has such an efficient production chain (that doesn't have many links at all!) that makes owning a computer much lighter on the peoples pockets, but doesn't offer anything new. with dells cheapness hurting apple and its innovation (as we've seen to date), if we all bought dell, new technology development would grind to a halt.
...if only the dell principle was applied to apple hardware, and dell used its market position to push more computer users into non-microsoft software and products (as we know them to date)
dell = capitalist machine, which in the end hurts the technological advancements which you're seeking in the first place.
Grokgod said:
I can't change my contrast setting either... weird. Picture in picture and picture by picture only works with either VGA/DVI and composite/s-video. You can't have the VGA and the DVI on the screen at the same time... I was sorta hoping for two computer desktops on the screen. You can swap between them though which is fine I guess.
Also MacRumors renders a little weird at 1680 x 1050 on some of the shorter stories. They aren't big enough for the graphic that's next to the story.
Here are some photos of my setup with the Dell 2005FPW. That's an iBook G4 800 12" next to it, some form of Logitech Keyboard/Mouse combo, Zalman 5.1 Surround Sound headphones, and Maxtor 250 GB external HD in case anybody cares.
There's also a Windows XP computer on the floor (not pictured) which is running the Dell Monitor. The iBook can run it just as well though (which is why the VGA cable is sitting under the iBook stand (which is a Griffin iCurve).
Edit: added a picture of the iBook 12" right in front of the monitor for size comparison.
There's also a Windows XP computer on the floor (not pictured) which is running the Dell Monitor. The iBook can run it just as well though (which is why the VGA cable is sitting under the iBook stand (which is a Griffin iCurve).
Edit: added a picture of the iBook 12" right in front of the monitor for size comparison.
Looks better than the Pictures on the Dell Website. So How is the image quality, response time, brightness etc. Thanks for posting pics!
Everything is fine as far as I can tell image quality wise. I haven't noticed any dead pixels yet... I've been playing Half Life 2 on it with no problems. Today my new video card comes (ATI X800 Pro with 256 MB of RAM) which should allow me to max out all the options in Half Life 2... I don't notice any ghosting.
OT: Swivel screens and newer Mac's
Since this screen was said to swivel (pivot) for portrait orientation. Do some of the later PB's, eMac's, and the such support that in the video card?
Since this screen was said to swivel (pivot) for portrait orientation. Do some of the later PB's, eMac's, and the such support that in the video card?
only for certain retail cards
According to the ATI Displays 4.4.2 Update / Read Me file, "VERSAVISION" (that's how ATI writes it) a.k.a. 90º screen pivoting "is only available for the following retail cards: RADEON 9800 Pro (and Special Edition), RADEON 9000, 8500 and 9200 PCI."
I'll install it on my PM G4 with OEM Radeon 9000 to see whether I can get it to work.
edit: I installed ATI Displays 4.4.2 and found that, as I expected, pivoting is not enabled. There must be a way to trick ATI Displays 4.4.2 into taking my OEM card for a retail card. Pivoting could come in handy someday when I either buy a pivoting display or tilt my head a lot.
nVidia people appear to be out of luck (as well as OEM Radeon folks).
Chip NoVaMac said:
According to the ATI Displays 4.4.2 Update / Read Me file, "VERSAVISION" (that's how ATI writes it) a.k.a. 90º screen pivoting "is only available for the following retail cards: RADEON 9800 Pro (and Special Edition), RADEON 9000, 8500 and 9200 PCI."
I'll install it on my PM G4 with OEM Radeon 9000 to see whether I can get it to work.
edit: I installed ATI Displays 4.4.2 and found that, as I expected, pivoting is not enabled. There must be a way to trick ATI Displays 4.4.2 into taking my OEM card for a retail card. Pivoting could come in handy someday when I either buy a pivoting display or tilt my head a lot.
nVidia people appear to be out of luck (as well as OEM Radeon folks).
Yeah, I love Apple displays but they've always been mucho dinero, I've never been able to seriously consider one.
was up at the local Microcenter last night looking at a 19" NEC LCD that was ~$450 after rebates. You pay a lot more for the 20", and even the Dell is out of range for me (looks nice though). I just want something to replace my Viewsonic Q95 19"CRT, the tube's getting soft.
was up at the local Microcenter last night looking at a 19" NEC LCD that was ~$450 after rebates. You pay a lot more for the 20", and even the Dell is out of range for me (looks nice though). I just want something to replace my Viewsonic Q95 19"CRT, the tube's getting soft.
That DELL LCD is not THAT horrible, you should see my old CRT sony trinitron *shudders* monitor - its a whole lot of ugly, and really needs to go on a diet, and stop hanging out with my unshielded speakers as its turning purple....
Not a bad monitor...it would be nice to see the apple displays drop in price. I may have to wait to hop on the LCD wagon to see if that will happen...Though I'm not very optimistic
A strange decision by ATI, to say the least. What in the book of business sense convinced ATI to do this? It's especially odd if you consider that it's limited to retail cards.Rod Rod said:
There is a very long thread at anandtech about the Dell 2005FPW.
http://forums.anandtech.com/message...1433149&STARTPAGE=1&FTVAR_FORUMVIEWTMP=Linear
http://forums.anandtech.com/message...1433149&STARTPAGE=1&FTVAR_FORUMVIEWTMP=Linear
Yes, I have been looking for an affordable, quality FP. This seems to address the needs. Although I would love to have the Apple 20" (It would look soooo sweet on my desk) I just can't justify the extra $$$s. I dont do anything professtionally with my system to need the Apple.
Just bought one
Just put my order through Dell Home for the 2005FPW
I ended up getting it $564.25 shipped. Beats the hell out of 1299 for the apple display. Used a 25% off coupon with the 35$ off accessories w/free shipping.
Will post pictures once it arrives in 3-5 days!
Just put my order through Dell Home for the 2005FPW
I ended up getting it $564.25 shipped. Beats the hell out of 1299 for the apple display. Used a 25% off coupon with the 35$ off accessories w/free shipping.
Will post pictures once it arrives in 3-5 days!
Personally, the higher price of an Apple 20 inch display doesn't bug me one bit. If I had a PowerMac, I'd gladly buy two of them. I'd be just as willing to buy a pair of 23 inch displays from Apple. Two 30 inch displays don't fit on my desk, so I wouldn't buy them (at least not right now - if my desk space situation changes I might buy).
In this corner the beast.
The 20" Dell fpw.
Out of its corner and box.
It weighs in with a small and tight enclosure with the usual two tone colors.
Black and a fake silver so popular in the PC world.
In this corner the classic beauty.
The original Apple Cinema Display.
Out of its corner and box.
It weighs in a bit on the heavy side but clad in a elegant white and see thru enclosure.
At first glance it looks to be an equally balanced fight.
The Dell starts out with an impressive 600:1 contrast ratio
Slamming down the older 300:1 on the Cinema.
But its strangely ineffective against the Cinema because it isnt compatible on a Mac.
The Dell's Contrast Ratio been GREYED out and uselessly set at 50%.
Wow
What a surprise turnaround, the Dell's best advantage has been nulled!
Its not an option in conjuntion with the Mac.
The Cinema counters with style and grace and better compatibilty.
A two button attack of Power switch and Brightness creates ease of use and functionality.
The Dell is confused, clumsy and trips over itself with poor onscreen functionality.
And what's this?... MOST of the screens variables are again USELESS against the Cinema!
They are almost all grayed out!?? Incredible!
Its one function that can be used, Brightness is almost ridiculously nonfunctional.
Even bringing it to a zero factor can barely contain its almost blinding 300 nits. In fact without being able to raise its contrast ratio, the extra brightness seems to be washing out some of its color.
What a shocker, the Dell's best and newest technological traits are being slapped down.
The Cinema's Color is brillant without being overpowering.
Yet there is a sharpness to it that seems to push down the Dell.
It must be that default 50% contrast ratio, its throwing the Dell on to the ropes!
The Dell is teetering and brings out its swivel stand and pivot view mode as a feeble attempt to fight back.
But to NO avail because it can't stand up to the classic picture frame good looks of the Cinema.
The Cinema slams the Dell to the ground just by standing still.
What a sight to see!
Is this fight about over.....??
NO! The Dell has an ace up its sleeve and pulls out its price tag!!
Bought at $679. With free shipping! What an awesome move.
Who can resist this value?
How can the Apple Cinema possible challenge this with its heavy handed $1299. price tag?
Its looking dark for the Cinema!
Wait!.... Yes!
The Apple Cinema Display was bought for a mere $700.
Due to the fact that its a discontinued model. It can be gotten at Ebay or a local Guitar Center etc for a much lower price tag than the original sticker price.
What an awesome deal for what is one of the Best Displays in the History of Computing!
The Dell is dizzy and confused, we might have to stop this fight!
The Ref moves in close and raises his arm signaling the Judges.
My GoD!@#$%^& The Dell is bleeding!
There is a PINKish hue cast on its screen.
There is a double check with the manager in the Dell's corner, to see if it isnt just part of the graphic or the extra NITS. But after double checking with the Cinema and a panel of CRT judges.
Its confirmed!
The Dell has a pinkish hue not always apparant but there!
Dell throws in the towel.
Its over! What a startling turnaround here tonight.
Ladies and Gentlemen.
It was a valiant attempt by the Dell Upstart and perhaps in another time and place with a compatible PC.
The Dell may have won.
The Apple Cinema Display was a fan favorite but odds placed it as the underdog to this newer and cheaper upstart model.
Even this reporter had his doubts about the reigning older Champ, which lead to the purchase of both Lcd's.
I thought that the Dell's claimed 600:1 contrast ratio would destroy the Cinema!
In the end, it was the nonfunctionality of many of the Dell's so called technological improvements and compatiblity, that made its 20 dollar real world price difference insignifigant!
That and the Dell's almost blaring brightness that could barely be dimmed to a comfortable level depending on a room variable lightening.
Were some of the major nags with this LCD.
But the final kicker was that in some instances there was a disturbing pink cast. Not always there but coupled with the other issues, and the fact that the prices were nearly equal. I saw NO compelling reason to buy the Dell.
"DUDE, Your sending the Dell BACK!"
The Apple Cinema Display has surprisingly held onto its Championship Belt for any year.
Whew, what a fight!
The 20" Dell fpw.
Out of its corner and box.
It weighs in with a small and tight enclosure with the usual two tone colors.
Black and a fake silver so popular in the PC world.
In this corner the classic beauty.
The original Apple Cinema Display.
Out of its corner and box.
It weighs in a bit on the heavy side but clad in a elegant white and see thru enclosure.
At first glance it looks to be an equally balanced fight.
The Dell starts out with an impressive 600:1 contrast ratio
Slamming down the older 300:1 on the Cinema.
But its strangely ineffective against the Cinema because it isnt compatible on a Mac.
The Dell's Contrast Ratio been GREYED out and uselessly set at 50%.
Wow
What a surprise turnaround, the Dell's best advantage has been nulled!
Its not an option in conjuntion with the Mac.
The Cinema counters with style and grace and better compatibilty.
A two button attack of Power switch and Brightness creates ease of use and functionality.
The Dell is confused, clumsy and trips over itself with poor onscreen functionality.
And what's this?... MOST of the screens variables are again USELESS against the Cinema!
They are almost all grayed out!?? Incredible!
Its one function that can be used, Brightness is almost ridiculously nonfunctional.
Even bringing it to a zero factor can barely contain its almost blinding 300 nits. In fact without being able to raise its contrast ratio, the extra brightness seems to be washing out some of its color.
What a shocker, the Dell's best and newest technological traits are being slapped down.
The Cinema's Color is brillant without being overpowering.
Yet there is a sharpness to it that seems to push down the Dell.
It must be that default 50% contrast ratio, its throwing the Dell on to the ropes!
The Dell is teetering and brings out its swivel stand and pivot view mode as a feeble attempt to fight back.
But to NO avail because it can't stand up to the classic picture frame good looks of the Cinema.
The Cinema slams the Dell to the ground just by standing still.
What a sight to see!
Is this fight about over.....??
NO! The Dell has an ace up its sleeve and pulls out its price tag!!
Bought at $679. With free shipping! What an awesome move.
Who can resist this value?
How can the Apple Cinema possible challenge this with its heavy handed $1299. price tag?
Its looking dark for the Cinema!
Wait!.... Yes!
The Apple Cinema Display was bought for a mere $700.
Due to the fact that its a discontinued model. It can be gotten at Ebay or a local Guitar Center etc for a much lower price tag than the original sticker price.
What an awesome deal for what is one of the Best Displays in the History of Computing!
The Dell is dizzy and confused, we might have to stop this fight!
The Ref moves in close and raises his arm signaling the Judges.
My GoD!@#$%^& The Dell is bleeding!
There is a PINKish hue cast on its screen.
There is a double check with the manager in the Dell's corner, to see if it isnt just part of the graphic or the extra NITS. But after double checking with the Cinema and a panel of CRT judges.
Its confirmed!
The Dell has a pinkish hue not always apparant but there!
Dell throws in the towel.
Its over! What a startling turnaround here tonight.
Ladies and Gentlemen.
It was a valiant attempt by the Dell Upstart and perhaps in another time and place with a compatible PC.
The Dell may have won.
The Apple Cinema Display was a fan favorite but odds placed it as the underdog to this newer and cheaper upstart model.
Even this reporter had his doubts about the reigning older Champ, which lead to the purchase of both Lcd's.
I thought that the Dell's claimed 600:1 contrast ratio would destroy the Cinema!
In the end, it was the nonfunctionality of many of the Dell's so called technological improvements and compatiblity, that made its 20 dollar real world price difference insignifigant!
That and the Dell's almost blaring brightness that could barely be dimmed to a comfortable level depending on a room variable lightening.
Were some of the major nags with this LCD.
But the final kicker was that in some instances there was a disturbing pink cast. Not always there but coupled with the other issues, and the fact that the prices were nearly equal. I saw NO compelling reason to buy the Dell.
"DUDE, Your sending the Dell BACK!"
The Apple Cinema Display has surprisingly held onto its Championship Belt for any year.
Whew, what a fight!
Attachments
but if you have a pc and want a 20in wide screen the old lcd from apple you have to add another 100 to the cost because apple had yet to figure out the stupidiy of there ADC contection
Pc's ? I use a Mac so connecting it to a PC is meaningless to me and borders on insulting.
I posted the review to set to rest the dabate of wether a cheaper monitor can match an Apple Display.
Connecting an older APPLE display to a PC is lunacy.
The newer Apple displays have DVI so there is no need for an additional adapter!
I posted the review to set to rest the dabate of wether a cheaper monitor can match an Apple Display.
Connecting an older APPLE display to a PC is lunacy.
The newer Apple displays have DVI so there is no need for an additional adapter!
The 20 inch ACD will come down in price if there is little demand for it and competitors are selling comparable displays. My guess since there is no sub 1000 USD display the 20 inch will drop. Apple is trying to profit as much as possible before it lowers it price for MWSF05.
You can count on it, with the Apple stock prices on the rise it is bound to lower the price of the 20 inch. Which is always good. Anyone remember the 1st Apple lcd screens that were bondi blue and white to match the G3 BW.
That design seems to have made an altered comeback with the AL ACD.
Only thing the bondi lcd had was height adjustment and tilt.
The ACD needs to have a built-in swivel base (left to right) built into the AL stand. That way it moves, its secure, and you don't see a visible circle. The up down tilting needs more flexibility (for some users its a requirement). If only the stand was height adjustable would be add a great benefit to many. and the last thing a pivot from landscape to portrait view. Seems Apple is not interested in portrait view, since all they PRO apps use the wide-screen format as well as movies and that is what they are interested in, if you want to work with portrait sized images why not work with 2 sided by side is Apple's thinking.
only having DVI, FW, USB ports is for simplicity. Kinda ruins it for people who want to use other connectors. However that is Apple keep it simple and clean.
Apple's 23 inch lcd could also see a small price drop, however they 30 inch screen is very price competitive indeed. The 30 inch is the best ACD deal offered, and add that dual screen GPU to the price.
You can count on it, with the Apple stock prices on the rise it is bound to lower the price of the 20 inch. Which is always good. Anyone remember the 1st Apple lcd screens that were bondi blue and white to match the G3 BW.
That design seems to have made an altered comeback with the AL ACD.
Only thing the bondi lcd had was height adjustment and tilt.
The ACD needs to have a built-in swivel base (left to right) built into the AL stand. That way it moves, its secure, and you don't see a visible circle. The up down tilting needs more flexibility (for some users its a requirement). If only the stand was height adjustable would be add a great benefit to many. and the last thing a pivot from landscape to portrait view. Seems Apple is not interested in portrait view, since all they PRO apps use the wide-screen format as well as movies and that is what they are interested in, if you want to work with portrait sized images why not work with 2 sided by side is Apple's thinking.
only having DVI, FW, USB ports is for simplicity. Kinda ruins it for people who want to use other connectors. However that is Apple keep it simple and clean.
Apple's 23 inch lcd could also see a small price drop, however they 30 inch screen is very price competitive indeed. The 30 inch is the best ACD deal offered, and add that dual screen GPU to the price.