Do people pirate software for the Mac?

[SkyBell]

The way i see it,

~photoshop, i wouldnt buy it anyway and just use gimp instead
~ms office, i would buy but openoffice.org is just as good and for free so i use that
~matlab, if i had to buy it i wouldnt and just use the copy on uni computers

so really, the manufacturer hasnt lost out on any pirated software that i have used, because if i didnt get it free then i wouldnt get it.

But here's the thing; if you weren't able to pirate it, what would you do? Either you would buy the software, or you wouldn't. If you really needed it, you'd buy it, simple as that. It's only because the option of pirating is available that you are saying that.

 

[Eidorian]

Yeah, now (or rather, towards the end of my PhD program) we had that too... actually I think we got it during my first year, but I had already bought SPSS:Mac during my post-bacc years. Since I only had SPSS 12, I never really used my copy after that, and just remote desktop'd to our department computers to use the current SPSS....

What's amusing is that the campus system had remote services you could connect to use the software and most departments did as well. When I left we were working on getting OS X terminal services up and running. It was still a fast user switching hack.

One can make all kinds of excuses. In the end, they're just excuses... it's one thing when one explores all reasonable options and finds none, but it's another when many reasonable options exist and one rejects them because one values one's convenience over the law or the welfare of others.

My mother has a saying along the lines of, "We wouldn't have thieves if work was easy."

 

[LizKat]

It sounds preachy because it is preachy.

Yeah. I don't mind having preached. It's interesting to get the feedback.

I continue to hope that with debate being raised more often about piracy, more and more people who pirate stuff will at least start to consider their options consciously. And ask oneself why, exactly, one has decided to pirate a particular piece of software.

If it comes down to money, and it's some amount that one would spend on beer and pizza in a month anyway, the excuse is pretty flimsy. If its just about thumbing the nose at society, it's even more flimsy. Get a free temporary tattoo instead, it's about a 4/5 on the shock scale if one gets it big enough and done on the face or back of hand... or so my dad seemed to think one time when I went home from school on one of those irritating "command invitation" weekends.

 

[thejadedmonkey]

It sounds preachy because it is preachy. You asked the question, what do software pirates become when the grow up? A lot of the time, they end up as people who use the software legally. They also end up subsidizing the next generation of pirates.

Most of the guys I knew back in college had a pirated copy of something on their computers. Hell, most of the guys I knew who ran warez servers 10 years ago grew up, got real jobs/started their own businesses and are the ones paying for multi-seat licenses to run their shops and studios.

I see that in myself. I once downloaded Dreamweaver 4, with a simple registry hack to activate it, off of a geocities website, in a zip file. I don't even think I comprehended that it wasn't right I was so young.

Now I'm the guy who buys software for web design, (although I've made do without Photoshop because I'm trying to stay legal now) and I have no doubt I'm financing pirates, but hey, someone's gotta do it

 

[JGruber]

I'll admit, I've pirated software before, such as Dreamweaver & Photoshop back in the day, but I really wanted to see what the software was capable of... shortly after using it and loving it, I went and bought it.

Now a days I do a lot of Win Server stuff, so I went and bought a TechNet subscription, at $349 a year, it gives you full access to Microsoft's full catalog... plus I can write off the cost because I use it for work.

Don't forget to include Pixelmator for a Photoshop alt. It does all the basic's of Photoshop and is cheap!

 

[applebook]

I wouldn't be surprised if the average Mac user downloaded more pirated software than the average Windows user: for one thing, Mac apps are ridiculously easy to copy, and secondly, most Mac users also run Windows (dual opportunity for thievery).

 

[THX1139]

It sounds preachy because it is preachy. You asked the question, what do software pirates become when the grow up? A lot of the time, they end up as people who use the software legally. They also end up subsidizing the next generation of pirates.

Most of the guys I knew back in college had a pirated copy of something on their computers. Hell, most of the guys I knew who ran warez servers 10 years ago grew up, got real jobs/started their own businesses and are the ones paying for multi-seat licenses to run their shops and studios.

Quoted for agreement. I know a lot of design students who have pirated versions of Adobe products on their machines. Sure, they could use the programs in the lab but the labs are not open at 3AM. Some students trade software, where one student buys the suite (or their rich parents get it for them) and trades the use for another program. They do whatever it takes to get their assignments done! And don't get all high and mighty saying that if they can afford school, they should be able to afford the software! Usually they are deep in debt and living off loans, ramen noodles, and stress. There is no substitute for inDesign or Illustrator... and the Gimp sucks compared to Photoshop. There is no substitute for real software if you have to create a 20 page color brochure for a class assignment! I bet my life that every one of the students will go on to become valued Adobe customers when they get jobs in the real world.

I also know people who have pirated software on their computers and they don't know how to use it. Much less use it to make money. I think they see or find an illegal version and wonder what it does. I knew a guy who had Adobe Premiere on his computer and didn't own a video camera. Same thing with 3d programs. Years ago I had access to Cinema 4D. I loaded it on my computer but never got around to learning how to use it because of the learning curve. I think it stayed on there for a year before I finally gave up and deleted it. I think the average pirate installs software that they wouldn't have otherwise bought. Sure, there are companies that steal software and use it to make money, but I don't think that is the rule. Most are honest and have registered versions. They just don't buy every update that comes along. A friend of mine runs a print shop and is still using CS2.

 

[thegoldenmackid]

Mac Software is pirated constantly. This will only continue to increase as there are more and more switchers at the college age level. But the pirating on a Mac vs. PC is hard to compare given the amount of PC Businesses vs. Mac Businesses.

 

[Ashka]

Simple questions.
When did stealing become OK?
Will it still be OK when you get a criminal record to go on your CV? or your kids do when they copy you.

The Mac users I know go without the software they cannot afford.

 

[Signal-11]

Simple questions.
When did stealing become OK?
Will it still be OK when you get a criminal record to go on your CV? or your kids do when they copy you.

The Mac users I know go without the software they cannot afford.

I'm wondering when speeding became okay. Will it still be okay when you get a criminal record to go on your CV? Or when your kids copy you?

I used to drive like a maniac. Actually, when I was on my sportbike, like a criminal. I'd blow by police manned speed traps and not only would I not slow down, I'd speed up. Must have done it a dozen times. Only got caught once. Didn't deter me a bit. Then one day, I realized it was dumb and I quit.

Stealing's not okay and most people don't think it is. OTOH, most people who pirate don't equate piracy with stealing. One way or another, they usually grow out of it.

Most people end up leaving that scene in their mid 20s after they get a real job and some money. The leftovers who don't are usually the black T shirt, goatee and a ponytail crowd. You don't have to worry about these Peter Pan types too much because they'll end up disappearing down the FOSS rabbit hole in a couple years anyway. At that point, you won't be able to PAY these guys to use or distribute commercial/proprietary software.

 

[LizKat]

~snip~

Stealing's not okay and most people don't think it is. OTOH, most people who pirate don't equate piracy with stealing.~snip~

See that's the part I do not understand. Why is it okay for someone who pirates to decide, unilaterally, that piracy does not equate with stealing.

What if I don't equate popping a DVD into my raincoat pocket as stealing? I am 100% sure the store security would insist my math is all wrong. The store doesn't care what I equate to stealing. Fact: I took the DVD. Fact: I did not elect to pay for it. Fact: I stole it.

 

[Signal-11]

See that's the part I do not understand. Why is it okay for someone who pirates to decide, unilaterally, that piracy does not equate with stealing.

What if I don't equate popping a DVD into my raincoat pocket as stealing? I am 100% sure the store security would insist my math is all wrong. The store doesn't care what I equate to stealing. Fact: I took the DVD. Fact: I did not elect to pay for it. Fact: I stole it.

Fact: Your analogy is flawed.

You took a physical object from someone's possession.

Let's say a colleague goes into your office while you're out, takes your favorite CDs, rips them, then puts the originals back. From whom did he steal? You or the record company? For that matter, what did he steal?

If some kid does it with CS4, from whom did he steal? You or Adobe? Is he actually stealing or is he deriving the right of sale?

To you and me, there's something morally wrong with this action. For the kid, he just hasn't learned to equate the two yet because it's not a simple matter of taking something from someone. In that sense, it's not a decision, as you make it out to be, to engage in a criminal act to be rationalized later. It simply hasn't processed as wrong. Yet.

 

[nanofrog]

See that's the part I do not understand. Why is it okay for someone who pirates to decide, unilaterally, that piracy does not equate with stealing.

What if I don't equate popping a DVD into my raincoat pocket as stealing? I am 100% sure the store security would insist my math is all wrong. The store doesn't care what I equate to stealing. Fact: I took the DVD. Fact: I did not elect to pay for it. Fact: I stole it.

I think it may have to do with the presumption of:
1. convenience
2. presumed anonymity of downloading (particularly if the sites are overseas, in countries that have a different legal system, less inclined to side with the EULA; i.e. thepiratebay.com)

But it's still theft. There are circumstances that individuals do know it's wrong, but will still do it to meet their goals. They come up with some sort of justification that negates the theft. It doesn't change the facts, but people are strange...

 

[EmperorDarius]

I think it's acceptable for students and such people to use pirated software, if they cannot afford it.

For instance, if a student wants to start learning Photoshop, but cannot take advantage of a student discount/cannot pay for it even, should he just keep not studying him, thing which could help him get a job in the future just because it's immoral (I know it's illegal, but the main point is that it's immoral) or maybe try using it? And no, using free alternatives is not a choice.

I think the important thing is that, if you use that software for professional use, you should pay for it. That software basically feeds you, so you should pay for it. Otherwise, if you don't use Pro software, don't install it, in this case you CAN use free alternatives.

In the end, some software just aren't worth the price. For instance, I'd be happy to pay for the Adobe products, or for the Apple products, but for Office? Office (at least the Mac version) is ridiculously priced for what it offers, also considering that many people need it not because of its features, but only for compatibility. So if you have to get office, try to find the cheapest package available on online buying sites.

 

[gnasher729]

Its rare to get a virus on a any apple computer. This is why there are A LOT of Macintosh owners that pirate software.

And some Macintosh users pirating software found out the hard way that pirated software downloaded from dubious internet sites can contain trojans, and there is no way the OS can protect you from that.

 

[LethalWolfe]

For instance, if a student wants to start learning Photoshop, but cannot take advantage of a student discount/cannot pay for it even, should he just keep not studying him, thing which could help him get a job in the future just because it's immoral (I know it's illegal, but the main point is that it's immoral) or maybe try using it? And no, using free alternatives is not a choice.

How about getting a job/internship at a local facility that uses the software you want to learn? Not only will you have a chance to learn how to use the software on your own time but you'll also have a chance to learn from working pros, learn professional standards and practices, network, and have a 'real world' job to put on your resumé.


Lethal

 

[kasakka]

Using an illegal copy of something like Adobe's software suite is actually beneficial to Adobe in the long run. People learn to use their software so when they get a job in say, an advertising agency guess what they'll be using? That's right, Adobe's software. They may even get their bosses to upgrade to the latest version, which means more cash in Adobe's chest.

While you can use other programs to get similar results, in most workplaces dealing with graphics you are expected to know how to use the industry standard, which (sadly, considering how crappy their software is becoming with each version) happens to be Adobe's Creative Suite.

I'm not saying it's right, but especially for students it's usually the only option when the faculty doesn't offer the programs or there isn't a viable student version available. I think Adobe's student package still cost close to a thousand euros, which is a lot for someone who's typically hunting for the cheapest noodles.

Speaking of student versions, does anyone else find that companies make it pretty annoying to get them in the first place? Not only are they usually difficult to find on their website, the limitations vs retail copy are often not clearly stated and you need to jump thru all kinds of hoops from sending student certificate copies around to filling tons of forms etc. The best ones are the ones where a school is provided logins for a site and with those you can simply download the software.

Most Mac programs are of the "small and cool" variety and often priced very reasonably so I'd imagine that people would have less incentive to download an illegal copy of a $20-50 program. Of course the big expensive stuff gets downloaded no matter what platform.

 

[gnasher729]

Or number 3, is that the education version watermarks "EDUCATION VERSION" across your entire document and can't be submitted as such...

looking at you, AutoCAD

If AutoCAD does that, and I was a professor running a course that requires use of AutoCAD, shouldn't I expect _all_ submissions by students to have "EDUCATION VERSION" printed on them?

 

[gnasher729]

See that's the part I do not understand. Why is it okay for someone who pirates to decide, unilaterally, that piracy does not equate with stealing.

What if I don't equate popping a DVD into my raincoat pocket as stealing? I am 100% sure the store security would insist my math is all wrong. The store doesn't care what I equate to stealing. Fact: I took the DVD. Fact: I did not elect to pay for it. Fact: I stole it.

The laws will always say something like "if you do X, Y and Z, then we call it XXX and you are punished in _this_ way". The actions that you take when you make an illegal copy of a DVD don't match the definition of "theft", therefore it isn't theft. On the other hand, it matches the definition of "copyright infringement", which can also be a crime. It has nothing to do with what someone calls it. When someone commits fraud, you wouldn't call it theft either, because fraud isn't theft, it is fraud, it is a different thing.

An important difference is that while the criminal punishment for copyright infringement seems weaker (the police can prosecute you for stealing a single DVD but won't do anything for copying a single DVD or a few DVDs), civil suits will punish non-criminal copyright infringement much harsher than non-criminal theft: You won't get much if you sue me for stealing an apple from your tree, but courts have awarded massive damages for illegally copying songs on the internet.

 

[EmperorDarius]

How about getting a job/internship at a local facility that uses the software you want to learn? Not only will you have a chance to learn how to use the software on your own time but you'll also have a chance to learn from working pros, learn professional standards and practices, network, and have a 'real world' job to put on your resumé.


Lethal

That would be great, but it all depends on the possibilities that the person has.

 

[xparaparafreakx]

I can afford a mac doesn't mean I can afford the software. The software can cost twice as music as a mac.

Man it is so easy to pirate now. I remember back when it was done on DC++ and Limewire. I told myself when I got older and I have money, ill would buy it.

Fast forward to now, yep I buy my software and games.

I only wish there was something like Steam for software. Man that would be killer.

 

[dmbfan41]

yes.

"people buy photoshop?" - my favorite comment.

kcnscrew? what

what do you think little snitch is for? well for the most part..

 

[TBi]

I have at times pirated software, but when i had the money i bought most of it.

Usually i end up finding out that the paid version doesn't work as well as the pirated version due to DRM. Then i get annoyed by how much i paid for software that won't work as well as the 'free' version.

So now i'm very careful when it comes to purchasing software.

Thankfully OSX and iLife/iWork don't have this stupid DRM so purchasing them is a no brainer!

 

[eviltobz]

...Usually i end up finding out that the paid version doesn't work as well as the pirated version due to DRM. Then i get annoyed by how much i paid for software that won't work as well as the 'free' version...

heh, i've found that sort of issue from time to time too. the only way that i have been able to install native instruments' guitar rig 2 on my leopard macs has been to use a dodgy pirate installer despite the fact that i already owned the original. it all runs fine, but the proper installer fails on leopard. of course, by the time lep came out guitar rig 3 had been released, so NI weren't bothered about getting the old version working.

and getting no-cd hacks for games can make life a lot more convenient too. pirates will download stuff that is already no-cd patched, but legit owners get the hassle of dealing with the drm.

 

[Auszero]

Software piracy leads to future consumers and market share for most companies. Microsoft execs have stated on record that they know that people will steal software and they prefer it be theirs. Essentially they want consumers to use their products and get acquainted with them in the hopes that they become loyal paying consumers down the road. It works in the cigarette industry so why not software.
Additionally it helps them keep their market share by providing a better alternative to free options. Why would you go with an unfamiliar and somewhat esoteric OS like Linux when you can get a copy of Windows for free (Im not here to really debate the merits of Windows). There are more apps and acceptance for Windows even though Linux might provide a great OS experience especially with a greater user base. Yet the availability of pirated software steals the wind (it being free) from Linux sails, thus one of the reasons it has never broken through to the mainstream.
Im sure these concepts apply to companies like Adobe as well. Adobe has remained the premier digital imaging software partly due to its user sticking with the platform and the inability of others such as Gimp to break into that niche.
Its hard to justify the stealing of anything but its a lot easier when you're talking of intellectual property and copy write infringement. Especially with free alternatives available.
Free is the new black. Im 28 and maybe buy 1 CD a year and a couple songs off of iTunes if I REALLY like them. I have had my MBP for a little over a year and bought 2 Apps because I couldn't find anything for free. Thats 2 Apps more than I ever bought on my Windows machine. I didn't grow up with piracy and warez but I'm very weary and involved in it and feel that kids who have grown up with it are going to expect CS5 to be free. What do you do then? Is it really that difficult for software developers to come up with security around their software?