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Do people pirate software for the Mac?

LizKat said:
One wonders what software pirates grow up to do for a living.
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One of my friends went on to win D&AD awards and is now a fairly respected designer and adverty person.
Another went on to become a professional ballroom dancer, one of the best in his age group in the country.
One of them became a doctor, 2 of them became infant and highschool teachers. One is a lecturer and used to run her own successful business.
 
pdjudd said:
I would ague not, buit thats a side issue. I was referring to commercial software - that would exclude free software like Linux distros. Obviously piracy can't encompass stuff given away for free - no motive. My point was is that if it can be stolen, it will be at some point.

Of course we are not talking about hijacking code - thats a separate issue.
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By strict definition, software piracy is another way of saying copyright infringement.

If I take GPL code and use it for proprietary purposes without releasing the source (Linksys WRT54X series, for example), then I have committed an act of copyright infringement. In concept, I have "stolen" a communal, public good by violating the terms of its license.
 
Signal-11 said:
By strict definition, software piracy is another way of saying copyright infringement.

If I take GPL code and use it for proprietary purposes without releasing the source (Linksys WRT54X series, for example), then I have committed an act of copyright infringement. In concept, I have "stolen" a communal, public good by violating the terms of its license.
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Exactly what I was implying. But thats not the type of piracy we are talking about. This thread is about people downloading software illegally that they did not purchase. We are talking about commercial software, not GPL code infringement which is a whole different side of piracy.
 
When I was in school if you needed to do something with a specific computer program that you did not own, then you went to the school computer lab and did the work there. Teachers never assigned specific projects for specific software unless that program was available in the lab. In fact, I learned most of my early Mac software at school. That's where I first used Photoshop and other Adobe products.

Now, I also freely admit that piracy was not that common in those days and neither were laptops. Only the rare student even had their own computer with them at school.

However...

We can argue the semantics or minutiae of piracy all day long, but the bottom line is everyone knows it's illegal. I'm not trying to be moralistic and I'm definitely not saying I'm innocent. The point is, lets just "call a spade a spade" and move on. It's a risk like anything else and up to each individual to decide for themselves how to act and what consequences their choices might bring, if any.
 
morrisman1 said:
The way i see it,

~photoshop, i wouldnt buy it anyway and just use gimp instead
~ms office, i would buy but openoffice.org is just as good and for free so i use that
~matlab, if i had to buy it i wouldnt and just use the copy on uni computers

so really, the manufacturer hasnt lost out on any pirated software that i have used, because if i didnt get it free then i wouldnt get it.

With iLife and open office, handbrake, adium, the gimp, the mac is already pretty capable running on free software
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Wait are you saying that you use openoffice.org (and therefore wouldn't BUY MS office) as a rationale to pirate MS office?
Why did you pirate MS office if you use openoffice?
Perhaps you DON'T use openoffice but instead use MS Office?
In which case your argument becomes: I COULD use openoffice which is free, so I pirated and use MS Office. - Which is absurd.
 
pdjudd said:
Exactly what I was implying. But thats not the type of piracy we are talking about. This thread is about people downloading software illegally that they did not purchase. We are talking about commercial software, not GPL code infringement which is a whole different side of piracy.
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I understand what you're saying but disagree with you. The trouble here is that people are constantly equating piracy with theft and have conceptualized it to mean "stealing."

A series of simple thought experiments reveals that the theft of intellectual property is a fundamentally different beast than a simple property crime. The only thing they really have in common is that something was taken or used that should have been paid for or at least attributed, but wasn't.

The realization of this difference and the subsequent laws meant to fairly regulate it have been around almost as long as the printing press.

In terms of software, it's different enough in concept such that it doesn't occur to most 12 year olds to equate the two. In fact, for most people, it's a concept that has to be taught. It was a foreign concept to most in 1979 when Bill Gates sent his letter demanding payment.

The more people equate infringement one to one with stealing, the more problem they're going to have difficulty gaining traction because on a gut level, it doesn't make enough sense.

Back to your point, GPL code violations and software piracy is fundamentally the same thing - a violation of the rights of the copyright holder of any copyrighted work. The problem is that people simplify the argument and end up arguing the analogy instead of the issue.
 
Signal-11 said:
Back to your point, GPL code violations and software piracy is fundamentally the same thing - a violation of the rights of the copyright holder of any copyrighted work. The problem is that people simplify the argument and end up arguing the analogy instead of the issue.
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Yes, it is the same action, but we are talking about two different applications of that action here. We are talking about downlading Photoshop with a activation crack. Yes its the same crime as commercializing code that is not licensed for that purpose. Different actions at play. Theft is possible without physical content - if it has value, it can be stolen. We are talking about two types of theft.
 
I don't think think there is a single computing platform community that does not participate in some form of piracy, it's a way of life. Nothing you can do to stop it really, whether you condone it or not.
 
Several years ago, I was curious about how 3d modeling works, so I found a pirated copy of maya to try it. I showed it to my younger brother, who was and still is very interested in video game design. He became even more interested and decided to major in digital media design at our university in preparation for going into game and game engine design. He has now spent a ton of money on a stack of legal Autodesk programs I've never even heard of.

If this situation appears to you as being morally equivalent to going into the Autodesk office and stealing something and running out with it, I personally think you're one of the people who tries to categorize their world into black and white so that it's easier to sleep while the rest of us struggle with the greys.
 
camshaft said:
Several years ago, I was curious about how 3d modeling works, so I found a pirated copy of maya to try it. I showed it to my younger brother, who was and still is very interested in video game design. He became even more interested and decided to major in digital media design at our university in preparation for going into game and game engine design. He has now spent a ton of money on a stack of legal Autodesk programs I've never even heard of.

If this situation appears to you as being morally equivalent to going into the Autodesk office and stealing something and running out with it, I personally think you're one of the people who tries to categorize their world into black and white so that it's easier to sleep while the rest of us struggle with the greys.
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lol you know maya had a free version that was limited to only one core right?
 
Boesky said:
If you can afford a MAc, shouldnt you be able to afford the software?

And, wouldnt a small user base make it easier to trace?
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I have no problem paying for tangible objects. Computers, records, LaserDiscs, iPhones, iPods, etc. I am not willing to pay for files. Especially when I can easily get them for free.

I'll pay for iPhone apps, however, because they are more trouble than it's worth to pirate.
 
The General said:
I have no problem paying for tangible objects. Computers, records, LaserDiscs, iPhones, iPods, etc. I am not willing to pay for files. Especially when I can easily get them for free.

I'll pay for iPhone apps, however, because they are more trouble than it's worth to pirate.
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do you not feel equal if not more amount of work goes into coding?

you think that apps are created by magic with nobody working on them?

how can you say that? im honestly baffled at the logic
 
Reading through this thread, I found there are primarily 3 kinds of people. The first are those that really don't need the software and can't understand why other people would steal it. The second kind of people need the software but they can afford it. They are upset that other people are getting something free that they have morally obligated themselves to pay for. Then there is the third kind of person. One who needs the software to advance their position in life, but they can't afford to buy it. Students and new struggling business owners fall under this category. And I suppose there is one more type of person. The kind of person who can afford to buy the software but chooses not to buy it because they can get it for free. That, in my opinion is the worst offender.
 
It not the same thing as stealing. If Someone gives away all their old software to goodwill. Would goodwill be stealing by takeing the software? If someone gives you Photoshop and you use it that is the samething as downloading a copy of Photoshop
 
flyguy206 said:
It not the same thing as stealing. If Someone gives away all their old software to goodwill. Would goodwill be stealing by takeing the software?
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no as the discs and license would be transferred along with it
If someone gives you Photoshop and you use it that is the samething as downloading a copy of Photoshop
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that is stealing as the license isnt transferred to you
 
The General said:
I have no problem paying for tangible objects. Computers, records, LaserDiscs, iPhones, iPods, etc. I am not willing to pay for files. Especially when I can easily get them for free.
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Tangible objects wouldn't exist w/o the intangible intellectual property that spawned them. Which do you think is more valuable, a can of Coke or a text file containing the recipe for Coke?

THX1139 said:
Then there is the third kind of person. One who needs the software to advance their position in life, but they can't afford to buy it. Students and new struggling business owners fall under this category.
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Odd. Poor students and struggling business owners pre-date the ability for anyone to pirate software en masse and somehow they still managed to get jobs and create successful businesses. What about students and struggling business owners that are in fields where pirating isn't an option? I mean, it's not like a budding photojournalist can just go download a DSLR or a guy who wants to open up his own mechanic shop can just torrent all the tools he needs. Are they destined to be forever jobless and die in the streets until someone invents Star Trek-like replicators that allow people to materialize physical objects out of thin air?

The "I have to have this software to live and I'm a poor student and I can't get a job w/o it and there is no way for me to ever afford it and this is the only way I'll be able to learn it and and and..." is a tired, melodramatic, weak, cop out, IMO.


Lethal
 
I routinely pirate and have done so ever since i got an internet connection in 1996 and i have no plans to quit. Why? Because i feel like it.
For me the question is not "Is it right to pirate", it is "Is this right for me".
 
stopped

Back when I had a powerbook 180c, I had a friend who had lots of pirated software, especially system utility software. Because I was new to the Mac and wanted to try out lots of utilities he had, I pirated some of it. Back then, lots of third party software was needed to keep the Mac going right (who remembers Conflict Catcher)? However, Apple now includes more stuffed baked in to their OS that I wouldn't otherwise want to buy. I continue to gladly buy good third party software that gives functionality beyond the basic OS. With my new MacBook, I don't have any pirated software. As other posters have said, use GIMP if you have a need for Photoshop type capability.
 
Yeah I have not seen this much horsefeathers laid out in the road since the parsing of the meaning of the word "is" back during the Clinton impeachment process.
 
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