Two very ignorant statements.
The MacBook was the number 1 laptop sold for students in the US - you really think students are rich?
And the user base isn't "small" - it is small as a percentage but not as an actual figure.
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Do people pirate software for the Mac?
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Two very ignorant statements.
The MacBook was the number 1 laptop sold for students in the US - you really think students are rich?
And the user base isn't "small" - it is small as a percentage but not as an actual figure.
Sheesh... All of these justifications for stealing.
In my world, you want something that costs money you buy it or do without.
Some of us have morals, even if we're atheists.
I have some shareware programs that I paid for and software that I paid for.
In my world, you want something that costs money you buy it or do without.
Some of us have morals, even if we're atheists.
I have some shareware programs that I paid for and software that I paid for.
Reasonably, you could assume that. But no graphics professor would accept an image touched up with an educational version of photoshop--or drawing done in illustrator--that had a giant watermark across it. The last I saw, it was plastered across the entire drawing (along the edge would be different), though it may have changed. And opening the file in a full version gives you a warning that it was created with an educational version, and still prints the watermark. There are ways around this behavior, but it's a headache to a student on a deadline (and architecture students are on tight deadlines - prep for the real world
).nanofrog, I don't know about previous versions. I've only been a drafter for 9.5 years. Cut my AutoCAD teeth on R14. I guess I had it good.
kasakka, in principal, I agree with you. Using software gets us familiar with it, and when we get into the business world, we are that much further ahead. In practice however, I still think it's unethical (*and depending on semantics, illegal). That's why it's great to have some of the programs like Personal Learning Editions, and free, high-end software (like the Microsoft DreamSpark Program) that encourage potential/future users to play around as much as they like without the fear accompanied with piracy.
*I say "depending on semantics" because I'd classify it as theft of intellectual property, not physical property. In reality, it's just splitting hairs, but that's what semantics, as well as legal proceedings, are all about anyway, so I guess it's cool. And piracy is something completely different involving guns and vehicles and such
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haha are you serious?
Well one of my best friends pirated multiple terabytes of music when we were in college. He now works for Microsoft and helped engineer the new Windows 7. And yes, he has already given me a free legal copy.
And another friend torrented more movies than you could ever imagine. And he now works for HP as an ETL Developer.
Oh and another friend, who was the king of pirating ANY software as soon as it was released, is a 3D Level Designer at Blizzard Entertainment.
Let's see, what else....
Oh yeah, another friend who has something like 5 terabytes of torrented music is a flight simulation designer for the Air Force.
And I now own a web design and SEO company, where I make a decent living at 25 years old.
Most of us went to Big 10 Universities. And one of us went to Stanford.
pirating software clearly ruined our lives....
Same here. All of the people I knew who pirated software big time, while they were in high school or college (myself included), are now good, honest working professionals with good careers. They are all either engineers, software developers, architects, etc. ... and they all pay for their software these days.
In regards to the original question (pirating mac software), I'd say that yes, many people do for 2 big reasons: 1) the thinking that there are no viruses for macs (whether that is true or not is for another thread) and 2) lots of mac versions of programs do not have any sort of online activation like many windows programs do and thus don't have to worry about using any cracks to get it to run.
I'd bet that 3 of the most pirated mac programs are Photoshop (whatever the last version that didn't have online activation), MS Office and OSX itself. Neither of which require online activation to run.
Software piracy is why Windows has such a dominate position today. Windows 3.x was the most pirated software ever.
Of course people pirate stuff. But free software really is getting better and better. And I know for fact that where I live, software piracy is very strong and legit users are scarce. Which means availability is scarce and prices are too high for non-millionaires (Adobe products are 2x more than in the states, for example. And my MacBook cost two average monthly salaries already!).
I still like music piracy better. It's legal to download for personal use here.
I still like music piracy better. It's legal to download for personal use here.
I started on R9. Pre Windows!nanofrog, I don't know about previous versions. I've only been a drafter for 9.5 years. Cut my AutoCAD teeth on R14. I guess I had it good.
The student copy I purchased was R12 IIRC.IP / copyright violations are how I see it as well.*I say "depending on semantics" because I'd classify it as theft of intellectual property, not physical property. In reality, it's just splitting hairs, but that's what semantics, as well as legal proceedings, are all about anyway, so I guess it's cool. And piracy is something completely different involving guns and vehicles and such
There is some validity to the arguments that the familiarization with pirated software tends to turn these individuals into loyal paying customers once they become paid professionals (whether the company pays or they do, as the business owner).
I just wish developers had enough sense to make their wares available in a manner for education that would eliminate the need to pirate (at least for students), as that seems to be the largest piracy base.Let's see:
fast internet connection ... check
large hard drive... check
some level of anonymity (within campus network)... sure why not
peer pressure... check
I've grown out of it, and besides, I have to set a good example for my son.
Man, I got ripped... stupid dial-up...Let's see:
fast internet connection ... check
large hard drive... check
some level of anonymity (within campus network)... sure why not
peer pressure... check
Personally, I just find it easier to pay for it, as I'm:
1. Lazy (takes too long to download what I use @ 3Mb, and don't want to hack it, as this stuff uses a USB dongle or firmware equiped router for security purposes). [National Instruments or other EDA software suites]
2. Paranoid (these days at any rate, given things like FISA. I can't help but imagine it will end up being used for "other" purposes).
This debate has gone has gone pretty much toward rationalizing poor college students' actions. Another reason for piracy might be disagreement with licensing terms. For example, living in a PC world, most people occasionally need to run a Windows app for compatibility, and no other reason. That person would like to run a base version of Windows in a virtual machine on their mac just to run the software they need briefly. But the Windows Vista licensing terms forbid running Windows in a VM unless running Ultimate. Many people might think that MS can f*** themselves before they'll spend extra money simply to comply with licensing terms. Sometimes software companies act unethically in their licensing terms.
Agreed, but with so many cheap or free alternatives, doing the right thing should be easy for most of us. Some people will always pirate. I find myself using demos for one-off tasks, and really only crack/pirate when it's not a fully-featured demo. I've done it in the past, but not so much anymore, as I don't have the need.
Free alternatives are available for a lot of things on both Mac and windows.
Regarding Photoshop, I was able to get a promo copy of Pixelmator, which, for what I do, will be plenty. I also got an NFR (not for resale, non-upgradable) copy of Aperture, iLife '08 and iWork '08, so I think I'm good.
I too like to buy software but my pockets are certainly not all that deep. I also got Pixelmator with one of those promo offers and it has proved to be very good for what I need to do with my websites. Sure Photoshop is the ultimate but unfortunately not only can I not afford it but I really don't have the time or energy to learn how to use it either.
I've found most of the Mac software is extremely reasonable--free, donations only or inexpensive--can't beat that. I have spent hardly anything since I got my Mac and have not pirated anything--well not any software anyway.
When I used to pirate software and games I didn't have much rationalization other than bein unable to afford it. Looking back, it's pretty pathetic. Now I don't have deep pockets, but I've learned to find free alternatives or to do without mostly. I still have a "trial mentality" for some stuff though. Usually a trial will do for the one-off projects.
Pixelmator is a great alternative for most of us. At $60, I encourage anyone thinking about photoshop for personal use to consider it. Nadyne here on macrumors works for microsoft and told us that there are ways to get office 2008 by participating in user experience studies. Certain employers have discounts for software. I can get office home and student for about $75. And there is used software that can be transfered. When you start looking around a lot of options come up.
Pixelmator is a great alternative for most of us. At $60, I encourage anyone thinking about photoshop for personal use to consider it. Nadyne here on macrumors works for microsoft and told us that there are ways to get office 2008 by participating in user experience studies. Certain employers have discounts for software. I can get office home and student for about $75. And there is used software that can be transfered. When you start looking around a lot of options come up.
I will admit to having been bad once and just once. When iWork 09 came out I did not have the cash, having been unemployed for a while. That really hurt. Anyway I downloaded the file from apple and used a cypher to crack the code to input. Then about six weeks later I purchased the family pack to make up to Uncle Steve.
There, I said it.
There, I said it.
Some of the posters on here come across with a somewhat pompous black and white attitude towards software pirating. It's not so clear cut stealing because most pirates are NOT taking money directly out of the developers pocket. The example of stealing something like a DVD from the store is NOT the same thing. Directly stealing a product from a store means that the store has one less item to sell and it affects their margins. Pirating software is making a copy of something that already exists. The only way it affects the software developer is if the user got it for free instead the intention of buying it to use for personal gain- and that is clearly bad. However, the big difference is that I believe that MOST pirated software is taken by people who are trying it out, or would never buy it in the first place. I think the people who steal software to use for professional work is not as common place as you think. Everyone I know that uses Photoshop to make money, owns a license. It's too much hassle for them to download pirated versions when they have clients waiting.
Sometimes I "borrow" copies of software to try out. I can't always afford the learning additions or they aren't available. I recently downloaded some software that retails for $3500 because I wanted to see how difficult it would be to learn. If I could add that to my resume, it will increase my chances of getting hired. I'm not using the software to make money, I'm just trying to learn how to use it. If I get a job, then that benefits the software company because that's another license. I see it as a win-win situation. If I didn't "borrow" the software to learn, I wouldn't know how to use it and that would be one less user for the software company. See how that works?
If you can't afford it, then you don't buy it, and you don't learn it. How does that benefit anyone in the long run?
Many years ago I paid $1500 for an exclusive software program that was supposed to give Photoshop major competition. That program was called "Live Picture." I thought I got a "good" deal for it because it originally sold for over $5000. Anyway, my plan was to become an expert and market those skills to design agencies and photographers. I spent a year learning the program, along with buying books and paying for upgrades to the program. Just as I was getting a great understanding of the program and did my first job with it (pro-bono), the company discontinued the software. I got burned and I won't ever let that happen again. Apple just did that with Shake, I wonder how many people got left out in the cold on that deal? Not me. I had a "borrowed" copy but never got around to learning it, so I deleted it.
As for internships. Do you know how hard it is to get one of those at a reputable place? Then if you do get in, you have to give a lot of your unpaid time and there is no guarantee that you will get to learn any of the programs. As a matter of fact, most places expect you to know the major programs BEFORE you get the internship!
Sometimes I "borrow" copies of software to try out. I can't always afford the learning additions or they aren't available. I recently downloaded some software that retails for $3500 because I wanted to see how difficult it would be to learn. If I could add that to my resume, it will increase my chances of getting hired. I'm not using the software to make money, I'm just trying to learn how to use it. If I get a job, then that benefits the software company because that's another license. I see it as a win-win situation. If I didn't "borrow" the software to learn, I wouldn't know how to use it and that would be one less user for the software company. See how that works?
If you can't afford it, then you don't buy it, and you don't learn it. How does that benefit anyone in the long run?
Many years ago I paid $1500 for an exclusive software program that was supposed to give Photoshop major competition. That program was called "Live Picture." I thought I got a "good" deal for it because it originally sold for over $5000. Anyway, my plan was to become an expert and market those skills to design agencies and photographers. I spent a year learning the program, along with buying books and paying for upgrades to the program. Just as I was getting a great understanding of the program and did my first job with it (pro-bono), the company discontinued the software. I got burned and I won't ever let that happen again. Apple just did that with Shake, I wonder how many people got left out in the cold on that deal? Not me. I had a "borrowed" copy but never got around to learning it, so I deleted it.
As for internships. Do you know how hard it is to get one of those at a reputable place? Then if you do get in, you have to give a lot of your unpaid time and there is no guarantee that you will get to learn any of the programs. As a matter of fact, most places expect you to know the major programs BEFORE you get the internship!
Apple halted development on Shake years ago so how does their decision to finally stop selling new copies leave anyone out the cold? Things was a long time coming. Products don't last forever so anyone working w/technology needs to get used to always learning new things. Maybe if you would've laid down some cash for Shake you would've had a bit more motivation to learn a very solid, professional app? There's something to be said for having to earn something as opposed to having it given to you (or in this case just taking for yourself).
I come at things from a slightly different direction. I buy what I need, learn to use it in a timely fashion and then put it to work for me. I find laying out money for new hardware or software is a great motivator to find gigs so I can get the new 'toys' off my credit card.
I had a number of internships (some good, some bad, some paid (poorly), some unpaid) so I know how it goes first hand and it's just the nature of the beast. I've also been on the other side of the table when I've been looking for interns and/or hiring for entry level positions. It's so easy to pirate software that just having it on your resumé w/o any work experience to back it up is just about meaningless, IMO.
People who are inexperienced and self taught tend to believe they know more than they do because they don't know enough to know what they don't know. This typically makes teaching them harder because you first have to break them of all their bad habits before you can start teaching them how to properly do things. I've gone through this a number of times when working w/young FCP editors who think a copy of the software and a Mac is all they needed. Ugh. There is a reason editing, and other fields, have traditionally had master/apprentice relationships and it's not solely because the gear used to be prohibitively expensive.
Lethal
Pixelmator is actually a more solid product than Photoshop nowadays and I'm going to buy it once I get a Macbook Pro. While it doesn't have all the features of Photoshop, it also doesn't have the inane bugs, bloat and annoyances that come with Adobe's package. For non-pros it's a perfect alternative to Photoshop.
There are also several pretty good alternatives for Illustrator.
I think everybody here can agree with the idea that piracy exists on all operating systems. The very existence of commercial software ensures that it will happen at some point. Piracy is platform agnostic.
Of course I've pirated software, especially when I used Windows. And even since my switch to OS X earlier this year, I've gotten a few applications through dubious means. But a funny thing has happened - I have actually started trying out free alternatives to a lot of the things I've taken over the years, and have really come to like them, and as a result, I've uninstalled and deleted nearly all of the pirated software I've accumulated. And I've also bought a lot more software since moving to the Mac than I've ever done before. Maybe it's growing up and getting older, or just being in a much better financial situation, but I have pretty much given up pirated stuff.
Nothing could justify stealing something. I was just saying that I can see why someone would do it.
I mean, I can understand why a starving homeless man would steal from a grocery store, but I know thats not right.
Piracy isn't stealing. Stealing is theft wherein you remove the original, whereas piracy makes a copy.
I don't think 'piracy' is possible under the GNU/Linux platform.
And I mean free distributions like Ubuntu, Fedora, Gentoo etc. Not RHEL.
I don't think 'piracy' is possible under the GNU/Linux platform.
And I mean free distributions like Ubuntu, Fedora, Gentoo etc. Not RHEL.
Not all software products for Linux are free (and I don't mean RHEL). Piracy can, and does, happen there as well.
I don't think 'piracy' is possible under the GNU/Linux platform.
And I mean free distributions like Ubuntu, Fedora, Gentoo etc. Not RHEL.
I would ague not, buit thats a side issue. I was referring to commercial software - that would exclude free software like Linux distros. Obviously piracy can't encompass stuff given away for free - no motive. My point was is that if it can be stolen, it will be at some point.
Of course we are not talking about hijacking code - thats a separate issue.