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Do you think the 2018 MacBook Pro will feature a better battery and keyboard? (POLL)
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- Keyboard is one of the best features of this new MBP line 2016/2017
- To improve battery capacity they would need to create a thicker MBP - never ever ! (Free space is needed for air circulation)
- To improve battery capacity they would need to create a thicker MBP - never ever ! (Free space is needed for air circulation)
No, I don't think so.
Of course they need to improve their 10 hours of battery life, but it will probably be with a smaller CPU architecture to save the battery.
Of course they need to improve their 10 hours of battery life, but it will probably be with a smaller CPU architecture to save the battery.
not sure its one of the best feature, but it is quite controversial. its either you love it or you hate it.
I think it is unlikely we will see a major change in either area next year. There may be a continued evolution of the butterfly keyboard mechanism, but the keyboard is not likely to change much.
I don't think the size of the battery will change, but increased battery life is a possibility with Coffee Lake CPUs because of increased efficiency. Probably not a huge gain over Skylake/ Kaby Lake though for 2018.
I don't think the size of the battery will change, but increased battery life is a possibility with Coffee Lake CPUs because of increased efficiency. Probably not a huge gain over Skylake/ Kaby Lake though for 2018.
- I love the keyboard, but everything can be improved, since nothing is perfect, and never will be perfect
- Maybe not... Maybe all Apple is doing is perfecting terraced batteries so they can put them into MBP. MB already has them. If they manage to do that, well, we will have a better battery.
But my answer to the poll was - NO
According to a supply chain leaker Apple is testing an E Ink keyboard because the butterfly one is "too unreliable and too noisy." The keyboard is no thicker than the current keyboard, uses a magnetic mechanism and offers a little more key travel.
https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comm..._going_to_be/dkl9yku/?st=j5rcttnp&sh=19757063
https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comm..._going_to_be/dkladrn/?st=j5rcht2w&sh=920500ef
However, even if the leak is accurate it doesn't mean that Apple has decided to make any keyboard changes as they frequently test things that don't make it into final production.
I think it would make sense for Apple to use a larger battery for higher spec 15" models as people who order them are very likely to be doing more demanding work that can suck battery power like a black hole. Unfortunately, Apple seems to be singularly focused on thinner and lighter so I don't expect them to do this.
https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comm..._going_to_be/dkl9yku/?st=j5rcttnp&sh=19757063
https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comm..._going_to_be/dkladrn/?st=j5rcht2w&sh=920500ef
However, even if the leak is accurate it doesn't mean that Apple has decided to make any keyboard changes as they frequently test things that don't make it into final production.
I think it would make sense for Apple to use a larger battery for higher spec 15" models as people who order them are very likely to be doing more demanding work that can suck battery power like a black hole. Unfortunately, Apple seems to be singularly focused on thinner and lighter so I don't expect them to do this.
Yes, I think it is likely. E-Ink or OLED keyboards seem like a natural progression for Apple given how strongly they feel about the Touchbar - although this may be several years away. For all we know, the butterfly mechanism could be the initial implementation to enable something crazy like OLED keys or keys with hepatic feedback!
Additionally, I feel that most new designs/works can often be improved with successive generations - resulting in a design that is more reliable, more usable, and increasingly more liked by the masses. Reducing the amount of noise and the tendency for some keyboards to make that annoying high-pitched click sound seems like a logical goal (the total amount of MBPs that have this issue are probably pretty small relative to the total MBPs sold - nonetheless, that small number is still enough to work on preventing the problem outright in future revisions.) Incorporating any findings of long-term research on the longevity of the earlier butterfly mechanism keyboards into newer designs also makes sense.
As with batteries, who knows! The things Panasonic and Tesla are doing are pretty nuts, and I'm sure future airline regulations could have a huge impact on where Makers go with their battery designs...
Additionally, I feel that most new designs/works can often be improved with successive generations - resulting in a design that is more reliable, more usable, and increasingly more liked by the masses. Reducing the amount of noise and the tendency for some keyboards to make that annoying high-pitched click sound seems like a logical goal (the total amount of MBPs that have this issue are probably pretty small relative to the total MBPs sold - nonetheless, that small number is still enough to work on preventing the problem outright in future revisions.) Incorporating any findings of long-term research on the longevity of the earlier butterfly mechanism keyboards into newer designs also makes sense.
As with batteries, who knows! The things Panasonic and Tesla are doing are pretty nuts, and I'm sure future airline regulations could have a huge impact on where Makers go with their battery designs...
I agree with everyone else on the keyboard - they're enamored of the butterfly design (and it gives them flexibility to do something insane in the future - like keys with displays, since they already use individual LEDs to backlight). Battery-wise, the next improvement we see will be a new chemistry - they are (unfortunately) committed to going thinner every time... Who knows how close they are to a 20% improvement in energy density, which would bring back the 99Wh capacity to the 15". There are battery designs that are still basically li-ion or li-polymer batteries, but offer that level of improvement - not yet in large scale production, let alone Apple-scale production, but maybe not THAT far off. .
One important thing to remember about Apple is their scale - just because someone like Razer can get enough of some new technology to use it in a boutique computer doesn't mean Apple can get MacBook Pro quantities (or reliability - there is a HUGE difference in minimum reliability standards between a gaming laptop and a MBP - although the Lenovo, Dell and HP workstations have to be as reliable as the MBP). I don't have actual sales figures, but just judging by the number I see around, I'm guessing even the big 15" MBP outsells every other $1500+ laptop by 10 to 1 or more (how many Razers or Lenovo workstations do you really see)? The 13" outsells the 15" by a factor of 3 or 4 again!
An example of where Apple's scale is critical is the discussion on another thread of the Nvidia Max-Q binned GPUs. Aside from the fact that Apple won't use Nvidia because Final Cut loves AMD, and Apple has no interest in helping Adobe (all the Adobe stuff prefers Nvidia), Apple is responsible for a huge percentage of ALL discrete laptop GPU sales on models they use, and can't use binned parts unless most parts off the line can hit the bin. Some boutique gaming manufacturers can use the binned parts, because the ones that fail the binning can go into relatively inexpensive Sagers and Clevos, while Razer or ASUS ROG is willing to pay extra for the good ones - but Apple probably outsells all of those put together, so there's no place for the average or bad parts to go.
Not so much with keyboards, but it is ENTIRELY possible that Razer or someone gets ahold of some unobtainium battery a year or two ahead of Apple coming up with quantities and reliability that meet their needs (but they'll still be saddled with Windows' battery life penalties).
Dan
One important thing to remember about Apple is their scale - just because someone like Razer can get enough of some new technology to use it in a boutique computer doesn't mean Apple can get MacBook Pro quantities (or reliability - there is a HUGE difference in minimum reliability standards between a gaming laptop and a MBP - although the Lenovo, Dell and HP workstations have to be as reliable as the MBP). I don't have actual sales figures, but just judging by the number I see around, I'm guessing even the big 15" MBP outsells every other $1500+ laptop by 10 to 1 or more (how many Razers or Lenovo workstations do you really see)? The 13" outsells the 15" by a factor of 3 or 4 again!
An example of where Apple's scale is critical is the discussion on another thread of the Nvidia Max-Q binned GPUs. Aside from the fact that Apple won't use Nvidia because Final Cut loves AMD, and Apple has no interest in helping Adobe (all the Adobe stuff prefers Nvidia), Apple is responsible for a huge percentage of ALL discrete laptop GPU sales on models they use, and can't use binned parts unless most parts off the line can hit the bin. Some boutique gaming manufacturers can use the binned parts, because the ones that fail the binning can go into relatively inexpensive Sagers and Clevos, while Razer or ASUS ROG is willing to pay extra for the good ones - but Apple probably outsells all of those put together, so there's no place for the average or bad parts to go.
Not so much with keyboards, but it is ENTIRELY possible that Razer or someone gets ahold of some unobtainium battery a year or two ahead of Apple coming up with quantities and reliability that meet their needs (but they'll still be saddled with Windows' battery life penalties).
Dan
I voted yes because of the obvious reasons:
- Apple controls the design and engineering of the MacBook Pro. They know how to develop macOS to sip battery life efficiently. Third party apps usually are the downfall, but that will always be the case. But areas such as power management has always been great. I currently been leaving my Broadwell MBP to sleep for over a week and its just below 70%.
- Intel processors are going in the direction of using less power. With 10 NM processors coming online next year, that means smaller geometry, which in return makes the processor more efficient.
- RAM both non-volatile and video RAM are two big battery power draws. This is dependent on discrete and integrated graphics. Obviously, the 15 inch models will always consume more, these are traditionally desktop replacements. At the same time, macOS plus the iGPU can better efficiently switch between apps that benefit from either. This probably ongoing.
- The display is another component that draws power and this will always be the biggest Achilles heal. Users need to play their part, you don't need 100% brightness and maybe Apple needs to need to do something about the default out of box brightness. Maybe using code, location services, app profile, environment and features already built into macOS Nightlight can further push efficiency in battery life. Background apps and services can be a major contributor. As long as you have something like Chrome running, your battery life will take a hit. What Apple could probably do just for apps like Chrome is purposely free their state especially when it detects inactivity or tabs not actually being used. Let it frustrate Google until they figure out how to make Chrome behave better on macOS.
I personally only use Chrome occasionally on macOS and maybe users need to consider another option for some activities and reduce the amount of sites they use. I personally move between Firefox and Safari.
- Ports that draw power devices are connected could also be a factor, so maybe Apple can do something there so it works better.
- Apple controls the design and engineering of the MacBook Pro. They know how to develop macOS to sip battery life efficiently. Third party apps usually are the downfall, but that will always be the case. But areas such as power management has always been great. I currently been leaving my Broadwell MBP to sleep for over a week and its just below 70%.
- Intel processors are going in the direction of using less power. With 10 NM processors coming online next year, that means smaller geometry, which in return makes the processor more efficient.
- RAM both non-volatile and video RAM are two big battery power draws. This is dependent on discrete and integrated graphics. Obviously, the 15 inch models will always consume more, these are traditionally desktop replacements. At the same time, macOS plus the iGPU can better efficiently switch between apps that benefit from either. This probably ongoing.
- The display is another component that draws power and this will always be the biggest Achilles heal. Users need to play their part, you don't need 100% brightness and maybe Apple needs to need to do something about the default out of box brightness. Maybe using code, location services, app profile, environment and features already built into macOS Nightlight can further push efficiency in battery life. Background apps and services can be a major contributor. As long as you have something like Chrome running, your battery life will take a hit. What Apple could probably do just for apps like Chrome is purposely free their state especially when it detects inactivity or tabs not actually being used. Let it frustrate Google until they figure out how to make Chrome behave better on macOS.
I personally only use Chrome occasionally on macOS and maybe users need to consider another option for some activities and reduce the amount of sites they use. I personally move between Firefox and Safari.
- Ports that draw power devices are connected could also be a factor, so maybe Apple can do something there so it works better.
Yes, they will run 10nm+ CPU's late 2018.
https://venturebeat.com/2017/08/14/...h-10nm-process-to-followup-its-8th-gen-chips/
https://venturebeat.com/2017/08/14/...h-10nm-process-to-followup-its-8th-gen-chips/
Keyboard is fantastic...Battery life could be improved. But that is subjective based on user. I am not super mobile, so haven't felt the need to complain too much about the battery life. If I were though this laptop would probably piss me off. I was changing some settings on my harmony remote last night and could literally watch the battery drain in front of my eyes. Battery life is not a strength of this laptop, but I don't think it's a deal breaker either.
Overall I love the machine couldn't be happier.
Overall I love the machine couldn't be happier.
I don't think we'll see any changes much to my disappointment.
I really wish they'd put the Magic Keyboard into the MBP's
I really wish they'd put the Magic Keyboard into the MBP's
I voted "no", although I really wish Apple would return to making an excellent keyboard, as was the case in the past. I just don't believe that the present management will deviate from its chosen course.
I actually decided against the 2016 model primarily because of the keyboard, and I'm really glad I did. It would drive me nuts to struggle with the faulty, unergonomic design now being used.
I've thoroughly enjoyed all of my Apple laptops, and there was a time when I couldn't have imagined buying anything else, but it's starting to look like Apple is making sacrifices in usability for the sake of a few millimeters of thinness. A laptop's keyboard is of immense importance to me. If Apple stays with this "butterfly-mechanism", I'll have no other choice than to switch to something like Lenovo, and I wouldn't be happy about that.
I actually decided against the 2016 model primarily because of the keyboard, and I'm really glad I did. It would drive me nuts to struggle with the faulty, unergonomic design now being used.
I've thoroughly enjoyed all of my Apple laptops, and there was a time when I couldn't have imagined buying anything else, but it's starting to look like Apple is making sacrifices in usability for the sake of a few millimeters of thinness. A laptop's keyboard is of immense importance to me. If Apple stays with this "butterfly-mechanism", I'll have no other choice than to switch to something like Lenovo, and I wouldn't be happy about that.
I have trouble understanding the OP's purpose in starting this thread. Both the keyboard and the battery life are already among the best in class. Appel designs their laptops to have 10 hours of battery life (which basically means a full work day), and not "as long as possible". I see no reasons why they would change it in the future. It doesn't matter much whether your laptop offers 10 or 13 hours of battery — you are going to charge it every night anyway or be without charge the next morning. Only meaningful battery improvement will come if we either get tech to safely put hundreds of Whs in a compact battery or dramatically reduce energy usage.
The 2018 MacBooks will be getting the more efficient Intel Chips so they will have better battery life.
IMO, the keyboard is fantastic. Can't use other keyboards other than mechanical ones now. Someone here said OLED keyboard would be natural progression but that would be a terrible idea. What would adding a second touch screen instead of a keyboard add? It would suck for typing long documents and add nothing. I don't need a tablet. I want a full fledged laptop.
IMO, the keyboard is fantastic. Can't use other keyboards other than mechanical ones now. Someone here said OLED keyboard would be natural progression but that would be a terrible idea. What would adding a second touch screen instead of a keyboard add? It would suck for typing long documents and add nothing. I don't need a tablet. I want a full fledged laptop.
Keyboard is fantastic. Battery will remain the same I bet. Seems silly since years ago there was reserach about how Lithium Ion battery technology using nanowires and other means can significantly get better battery life... either that was a fluke and they discovered problems with it, or somebody is saving it for the next time technology feels stagnant.
I hope they do something with the keyboards, maybe even at the expense of additional line up ... this flat noisy thing seems to be nearly unusable for some of us.
So do I, as do many others, equally Apple's corporate hubris will likely prevent common sense being applied, and we will be stuck with these atrocious unreliable keyboards indefinitely.
I also encourage all to leave their comments here on the off chance Apple is remotely concerned about it's customers...
https://www.apple.com/feedback/
Q-6
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Maybe we'll eventually see terraced batteries and of course power efficiency improvements with newer CPUs - but, echoing the sentiments of many other members in this thread, I think the keyboard is fantastic as it is.