Does anyone else not like the direction Apple is going with their products?

Discussion in 'MacBook Pro' started by monkeybagel, Jun 14, 2012.

  1. monkeybagel macrumors 65816

    Jul 24, 2011
    United States
    I have not seen the new MacBook Pro in person. I am sure it has a wonderful screen. But I must say I am concerned the direction Apple is going with their products. They are making thing so compact, so non-servicable, and so expensive, that it is really making it hard to justify me purchasing some of their new equipment. It just seems wasteful, in a sense. The fact that if you order a new MacBook Pro with 8GB or RAM and have a limited budget at the time you place the order, and three years later you decide you want 16GB - that is not an option. Nor is the easy at all to replace the battery from what I have read. It seems that Apple is putting form over function more than ever on their current machines. I have no doubt that the new MacBook is a great machine for those that have the money to purchase one and replace it every few years, but it seems that Apple is forcing us in that direction and I don't like that feeling.

    Just a few things that I would like to see them address-

    1) Make RAM upgradable on MacBook Air and new MacBook Pro models
    2) Allow hard disk upgrades - the new iMac has the fan issue and a workaround is required to do that.
    3) Allow non-Apple SSDs to utilize TRIM for maximum longevity and performance long term.
    4) Make iMacs more serviceable. The non-iSight G5 iMacs were VERY easy to service, and I don't see any reason with their very intelligent engineers that they could not do the same with the current model.

    I am a sucker for hi-res displays, and for large amounts of RAM, but I just can't seem to wrap my head around the non-upgradability of the MacBook Pro. I have upgraded every laptop I have owned - usually RAM and HDD/SSD. Right now I see the non-retina display models being the ones I would go with - as you continue to get the additional ports and you can place a 512GB SSD in there with 16GB of RAM, and still not have a ton of money in it.

    Is anyone else rather disturbed by this trend? I have never used this word before - but is seems that the "Mac Tax" is going up - to get upgradability you have to get a Mac Pro (which I would love to have) but obviously that machine is very expensive. Or, you have to pay up front a much higher than market value price for upgrades straight from Apple to get the machine maxed out when ordered.

    Just thinking out loud...
  2. takeshi74 macrumors 601

    Feb 9, 2011
    Of course others do. What's the point in griping about a product if it doesn't suit your needs? If you can't justify buying Apple products then don't. Why do people feel entitled to certain brands? Use whatever works for you.
  3. jeremyshaw macrumors 6502

    Oct 29, 2011
    Well, as for the MBA RAM/SSD upgradeability, *quite* a few MBA clones ("Ultrabooks") use custom SSD and soldered on RAM, too. I'd venture it's an engineering/cost limitation, rather than a deliberate decision to make upgrading hard.
  4. monkeybagel thread starter macrumors 65816

    Jul 24, 2011
    United States
    That's exactly what I am going to do - not buy it. I don't need convincing from anyone on here.

    I can deal with an iPad not being upgradable. I have owned two of them, and have not problem with it. But I can't recall seeing a $2199USD computer product that that has no upgrade option for the end user. I just wish they would give consumers the options to make the products be more current for a longer period of time.
  5. tusctodd macrumors member

    Dec 22, 2009
    Some people don't like change.


    Thank you for letting us know you won't be buying one.

    I know I will sleep better tonight.
  6. monkeybagel thread starter macrumors 65816

    Jul 24, 2011
    United States
    I'm sorry. I really want you to get a great nights sleep.
  7. ixodes macrumors 601


    Jan 11, 2012
    Pacific Coast, USA
    In my case I have very mixed feelings.

    Having been an Apple customer and serious enthusiast for so long, the direction they're headed is _very_ obvious & disconcerting to me. They were on a great trajectory until iToyz became so profitable & dominate.

    Don't get me wrong, iToyz are fine, but the influence they're having over OS X, as well as causing the "Post PC" priority at Apple does concern me. As one who readily embraces change & progress, it's only the method that Apple is using that bothers me.

    Being so successful & loaded with cash, I don't see why Apple cannot do both. Continue to excel with mobile devices, as well as advancing the Mac OS.

    Ive tried hard to get into acceptance and be enthused, but it just seems like no matter what's said, or how they spin it, those of us who earn our living with Macs, especially in engineering & scientific like I do, are going to be living with a look & feel to OS X, that's far too much like iOS.

    While some of it can be turned off, not used, or ignored, it's still quite a compromise compared to the Pre-iToyz-App-Days.

    I'm not giving up yet, just trying to get used to the clutter of change as Apple migrates to a look & feel that attracts newbies. Ugh.
  8. dbit macrumors regular

    May 2, 2006
    I think that Apple is becoming a mobile interface company. Their priority will be on the best sleekest interfaces and apps for mobile computing. The problem is that over the past couple decades Apple has come to be relied upon as THE primary alternative to Windows for desktop computing (Linux/Unix are not viable for most people outside of specialized areas). Now those people who've chosen Apple for their platform are being forced into either these thin non-upgradable mobile devices or an all in one computer with limited expandibility and a screen that doesn't fit everyone's needs. It's not really Apples problem, but more a problem with the 'two party' OS system that software developers have forced us into. It's one more example of typical polarization that seems so common in this universe.

    I'm frustrated by it. I dont want Windows but Apple's vision of computing no longer fits my needs.

    People need to remember that this is a discussion forum. You decided to open, read, and reply to this thread. Berating the OP for posting it is kind of ironic if you think about it.
  9. monkeybagel thread starter macrumors 65816

    Jul 24, 2011
    United States
    I'm glad I am not the only one who is uneasy with the direction.

    I get excited just like the next person when it comes to an Apple event and watching their new products be unveiled. I would also like to own every one that they announce, like most people on here. But it comes to a point where it is so expensive to even try to stay up to date. I have a ThinkPad that works great for Cisco administration. I placed an SSD in it and added RAM, and it has a built in 3G card and has held up great. I would really like to get a MacBook and use it in the field for years to come.

    It's not really the 15" that is disturbing to me as much as it is the fact that I think it is pretty safe to say that the "legacy" MacBook Pros will go this route, and that would potentially leave zero Macintosh laptops RAM upgradable. I hope this is not the case, but Apple loves eliminating "legacy" things way before any other company, so I expect it very soon.

    The OS has not got to the point it is all iPad like yet, thankfully. I am pretty impressed with 10.8 (running 10.8 preview 4) and it has been stable - Messages actually works well, and overall it is a solid OS. They have not locked out the Terminal yet. :) I was disappointed they will not allow third party apps that are not sold in the Mac App Store to use Notification Center. But I guess Growl will suffice for that.
  10. monkeybagel thread starter macrumors 65816

    Jul 24, 2011
    United States
    It's not so much the product - it's the direction. I think the 13" will follow very soon, and that will leave no MacBooks upgradable.

    A question for you - do you prefer the thinnest possible computer, or a computer that you have the option of upgrading at least the RAM on? What would you pick? Same price.

    If it was 90% prefer thin, I can understand their direction, but I don't see it skewed that much. If they continue making both models, it would be great, but I don't expect that.
  11. nars1l macrumors newbie

    Apr 26, 2012
    I think the OP did a great job of posting his opinions and reasons behind them - no need to get snappy.

    As for myself, I am okay with this direction that Apple is going. Yes, I'll miss the ability to upgrade myself.. but if that's the sacrifice I need to make to make a product thinner, sleeker, and more pleasant to use, it's a sacrifice I'm willing to make.

    I remember thinking to myself in the past "I'll never get an iPhone - they don't even let you swap the battery". I purchased a Palm Pre instead. Besides WebOS being the best mobile operating system I've ever used, it was a failure as a piece of hardware - slow performance and very poor build quality. I never replaced the battery once.

    I bought a Dell Laptop instead of a Macbook on my way to college - not only did its battery life drop to 5 minutes max after 6 months of use, but its hinge broke, and it's been a fragile 'desktop computer' for 5 years out of the 6 I've owned it. I've upgraded it exactly once - doubling its RAM from 1GB (stock) to 2GB.

    So this time around, I bought an Iphone 4, and have loved it every second - and the battery life after 2 years of daily use and charging is still better than my Palm Pre's was the first day I got it. No regrets, and by the time I do need the ability to swap in another battery, it will be time for me to buy a new model phone anyways.

    This time around on the laptop, I bought the new Retina MBP. Is it expensive? Hell yes. More expensive than I'd like to pay? Hell yeah. But it's the first of the next generation of notebooks - I didn't want to find myself 6 years from now hating my computer because it only has 1440x900 resolution, or had battery life of 5 minutes. While the RMBP is expensive now, it will be something I will still enjoy using in 6 years, unlike a cheaper, more upgradable option.

    And I made sure to take care of my future upgrade needs, as learned from my last laptop, by doubling the stock RAM.

    GPUs have never been upgradable in laptops, and I've never seen anyone upset about that. The same for SSD and RAM sucks for now, but it's the price we have to pay for the design we want.
  12. mobiousblack macrumors member

    Jun 14, 2012
    With me it's always been thin, light, and amazing battery life with MacBooks. That's what I look for, upgradable ram is essential to some but why not purchase the preferred amount to begin with? 8GB or 16GB. If the money isn't available then just save up some more and have it all in the initial purchase. Of course then there is the markup apple adds to its ram which I get why people want to buy and upgrade themselves, again how much is 50-100 usd in savings when your spending over 2000 on a laptop to begin with. That's just my opinion.
  13. Suno macrumors 6502


    Dec 12, 2011
    Apple seriously hates anything that the customer can do besides giving them cash and smiling about their new toy. Upgradability means less money Apple can cash in from customers at the order page. Before you know it, Apple will be making their own custom, Apple only flash/harddrives and RAM, just like how Sony made their own external storange device instead of adopting MicroSDHD.
  14. monkeybagel thread starter macrumors 65816

    Jul 24, 2011
    United States
    I could not be happier with my iPhone as well.

    You did the right thing - max it out out of the gate. Maybe if they do make the 13" this way, it will come in at a much less price point even maxed out.

    That does bring up another point I have wondered about.

    Why does Apple only support much less than the chipset maximum RAM. As I am sure you know OWC tests additional RAM on the machines and they will accept more than the Apple specified max. There is some reason that Apple rates the maximum where they do - I just wish I knew what that was. I would think the new retina model would accept 32GB, but guess that Apple limited it to 16 for their own (probably valid) reasons.
  15. Ksubi macrumors member

    Jun 12, 2012
    I just still hate it how the 2012 non retina MB pro's still look the same. At least make them look the same as the RMBP, thin and light... *****!
  16. henry72 macrumors 65816


    Jun 18, 2009
    New Zealand
    People, move forward please! Think Different :)

    The main reason that Apple can achieve on designing such a nice, thin, light and yet extremely powerful MacBooks is making every parts as small as possible! Making it user-upgradable will make the laptop thicker etc...

    By the way, I'm very impress with Apple that they pre-loaded 8GB Ram. This is something that I've never thought they would do before.
  17. Trishul macrumors regular


    Oct 27, 2006
    Sarasota, FL
    I see what you're saying, but the problem is if you like Mac OS X, then you are pretty much stuck with having to use Apple's hardware, Hackintosh's can be good, but they really aren't all that practical an option. It can be annoying because they make some truly great software and OS, truly amazing.. and if for whatever reason their hardware doesn't suit your situation, it can be quite maddening, especially if your livelihood seems to rely on using a computer.

    to the original poster.. as a Mac Pro user, i can assure you they have some massive holes.. yes it is the only real option from Mac that allows upgrade options, but it is woefully outdated in many regards.. the fact it doesn't have Thunderbolt, to me is just literally insane.. when i saw it put into the Macbook Air, I was baffled.. and then the Mac Mini.. then literally every other product.. yet the people who would truly benefit from the interface are Mac Pro users.

    there are times i look at other manufacturers and get envious that you get so many options, all the latest tech is available to you, the software can be customized so much..

    but then i use them and realize why i appreciate Apple's philosophy.. but i do agree there are times when Apple confounds me. From a personal POV, i'm not too concerned about being able to upgrade my notebook, it's never really been an issue for me, but then again I don't solely rely on portably computers for my work, they're a bonus.. but I completely empathize with your situation.

    "nobody's perfect" is the only adage i can remark on the whole case. I know they still have the regular Macbook Pros, but it won't be long before they are phased out.. I don't know if this logic is fair.. if you really do make a living from the use of laptops, in theory you should be able to trade in and buy a new one when the time comes... much like with a car. Just playing devil's advocate.. i completely empathize.
  18. monkeybagel thread starter macrumors 65816

    Jul 24, 2011
    United States
    It's very good they did include 8GB for that caliber of a laptop. The SSD would hide many of the shortcomings or 4GB, but it definitely needed 8GB.

    Now if they will just put the 13" Air screen on the current 13" MacBook Pro!
  19. oddsratio macrumors newbie

    May 18, 2012
    Every apple forum I visit has a lion's share of people saying, to suck it up and this is the direction of technology. The 'well, it's not for you, so don't buy it line' irks me. The legacy line will probably be phased out in 3-4 years like the polycarbonate macbook was, so it gets to the point where none of the products in the lineup will suit your needs so you have to be really attached to OSX for it to outweigh all the compromises in the equipment and the philosophy behind it. Just look at the poor folks who've been waiting years for a Mac Pro update.
  20. latestmonkey macrumors 6502

    Aug 13, 2002
    how many of these type of threads can we expect for the next month? Is there a way to pre-ignore them?

    Vote with your wallet, not with your ability to complain about it on a forum.
  21. astrorider macrumors 6502

    Sep 25, 2008
    I like the way Mac's are upgradable:
    1.) Time machine backup.
    2.) Sell on Ebay.
    3.) Buy a new one with the specs you want.
    4.) Time machine restore.

    Macs are known for good resell value, and I generally buy less expensive machines that when they drop to 60% of their value in a couple years I'm not out too much money (read "not a retina MBP").

    For example, if I could upgrade the RAM and SSD in my current 2010 Macbook Air (the RAM I can't, but for sake of argument...), I'd probably spend at least half of the $600 the machine has now depreciated, and I wouldn't benefit from faster RAM and SSD speeds, USB 3, thunderbolt, and a Core i7 over my Core 2 Duo in the new Macbook Airs. Seems like a good value to me.

    And, I like buying new computers :)
  22. hkim1983 macrumors 6502

    Feb 5, 2009
    While I am concerned with Apple's growing tendency to prioritize form over function for the sake of marketing, the real reason why I don't like all enclosed systems is because my worst computing experience in about 20 years of use was an Apple computer that I couldn't get inside (painlessly).

    I'm talking about the iBook G4s. Conveniently, my HD failed on me a few days after my 1 year warranty expired and a little afterwards, my optical drive failed on me. I learned to live without the optical drive, but essentially having a weak desktop system because my computer was forever chained to its external devices wasn't exactly a wonderful experience. For those of you who have never replaced the HD in one of those systems, let me just say it's pretty overwhelming for someone who isn't used to (almost) completely disassembling their entire laptop. I eventually did take out the HD when reselling the system for parts, and vowed never to deal with this crap again.

    My next laptop would be the Aluminum unibody Macbook 13", which just so happened to be the best computing experience I've ever had (and I'm still using it as we speak). While I've never HAD to replace the HD, I did swap in a faster, bigger drive and more ram painlessly, along with replacing a faulty battery. Just having that piece of mind though was worth more than the Applecare insurance to me.

    While having soldered ram is bothersome to me, as long as the HD is always user replaceable (and not virtually impossible to get to), I'll be ok. I just never want to go through that nonsense again.
  23. monkeybagel thread starter macrumors 65816

    Jul 24, 2011
    United States
    It is a discussion. Nothing else. No need to get defensive here.
  24. monkeybagel thread starter macrumors 65816

    Jul 24, 2011
    United States
    And to answer your question, depending on the title used, it would be hard to set up an ignore list based on that variation alone.

    I have not made a tally of the current ones, but if you take the time to do so, you may be able to determine a frequency in which they are posted, and based off that and the number of days on a month make a projection, factoring on a decline of frequency as the time delta increases.

    Feel free to contribute if you are going to take the time to stop in and read and post. Give us your opinion as to why you prefer the thin/closed system vs the thin-but-not-quite-as-thin/upgradable system. It's a discussion - nothing more.
  25. goMac macrumors 603

    Apr 15, 2004
    Not decided.

    I wouldn't have as much of a problem with the funky Macbook Pro SSD form factor if they wouldn't use weird screws and would at least make it some sort of open standard. There is absolutely no reason the flash drive shouldn't be considered user serviceable.

    With that RAM I'm just not sure.

    It's hardly the first Apple laptop that's a PITA to service. The iBooks were simply awful, and so were the first aluminum Macbook Pros. In time it got fixed, so I'm hoping Apple backpedals a bit. Maybe that's why they still offer the old form factor.

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