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Do you seriously think they're gonna keep the non-retina MBP line beyond the next revision of the RMBP? (I am not being snarky in asking this...I sincerely am asking your opinion)

I think it's possible that the retina MBP that was just launched is going to be the 15" Air, and that they might continue to have the traditional line. Heck, they might eventually just have retina displays on all their notebooks.

But seriously, no idea. My crystal ball said that the MBP was going to see a major overhaul last week. I just think it's premature to be fretting over something that's mere speculation. (also not snarky)
 
Ehhh, it will be interesting to see what happens over the next year. I really like the new MBP Retina and the sleekness of their products, but the lack of upgrading really stinks. I always upgrade the RAM on my Mac after purchase.

Apple's upgrade options are ridiculous. They lag behind offering the latest (largest) size memory or storage options in the market. Then when they do offer them, they make it seem like they moved the earth and charge a premium.

I LOVE their products, but if they continue like this it will ruin part of the value of a Mac. All of my Macs have lasted longer than PCs. Making upgrades to memory has always helped with this. But now, I can see the typical "usability" of Macs decreasing without allowing user upgrades.
 
I don't mind this direction at all. I always bought computers and things in the past with an eye for upgrades. This was back in my PC days. Rarely did I upgrade anything other than RAM, maybe HD space. Those are by far the top two upgrades and the ONLY upgrades you can make in laptops typically.

But the landscape of computing has changed, and upgradability is less important to most reasonable users.



Hard Drives

With things like iTunes Match, DropBox, etc. more things are going into the cloud and not on your HD.

For example, I use iTunes Match for music. I have a few playlists consisting of maybe the 100-200 songs I listen to the most downloaded on my devices, but the rest can live in the cloud. I don't feel like I will ever just HAVE to access some song I hardly listen to (if ever) at a place where I will find myself without an internet connection or access to one nearby. Very unlikely scenario. This can easily save you 100GB+ depending on how big your collection is.

Also, for things like media, instead of downloading hundreds of gigs of movies, I got Netflix and very occasionally do I download anything. And because things are so readily available, I don't feel compelled to hoard TV shows and movies. If I want to watch it again, I'll just download it again if I have to. For things I really want to keep or are rare, I have a 3TB external HD for that off chance I'll wanna see it again. But very few things go in there.

Back in the day when the internet was slow and downloading a movie took all day or maybe even several days, hoarding was useful. Now when you can download whatever you want in minutes, maybe a couple hours tops, hoarding is pointless.

The only thing left is photos. Once a good cloud-based solution for storing your photos permanently appears, my 65GB collection of family vacation photos will be living there (maybe on an external HD too, for back up just in case), and not on my HD.



RAM

As for RAM, let's face it. Going from 512MB of RAM to 1GB or 2GB on the computers of yesteryear made a night and day difference in performance. Even going from 2GB to 4GB for some heavy users. And because of the price, it made sense to buy a computer now and then save up for an upgrade later.

This is no longer the case. Going from 8GB to 16GB makes almost 0 difference for everyday computing, it is only important for people who are going to be manipulating videos.

And at only $100 extra on a $2199 machine (the difference of 4.5% is less than the amount of sales tax you are likely to pay on the machine) it doesn't make sense not to upgrade if you fit into the category of people who are going to NEED it. Heck, ask a student in your family to lend you their discount and going with the 16GB version is actually CHEAPER than the stock version (plus you get an extra $100 iTunes credits!).

For people who don't do movie editing or another task which requires super heavy RAM, I guarantee you that 8GB is going to be enough to run Facebook, E-Mail, Microsoft Office, iWork, and the rest of the internet for as long as you own the machine. (8GB is enough for a whole lot more than that too.)




Battery

I have only gotten a battery replacement ONCE under a warranty and swapped it out. The new MBP would give you the same benefit, if your battery is defective. The old school batteries of yesteryear had up to 300 cycles on them. That means for heavy users by the end of the 1st year it would stop holding a charge.

Today's batteries can be recharged 1,000 times before they reach 80% capacity. That means you would have to fully discharge and recharge your battery every weekday (for work) for nearly 4 years before you saw any drop.

And if just every other day you plug in instead of relying on the battery alone, you could extend that to 8 years -- far beyond the point when you'll be buying a new laptop.

As far as battery life, I remember laptops of yesteryear (by that I mean 2003-2005) having no more than 2-3 hours of practical use before they went completely dead. This made having the ability to carry a spare battery for replacement all the more important (not to mention wore out batteries quicker, necessitating a quicker replacement).

With battery life now reaching around 7 hours of practical use, you not only recharge two or three times less often, you also don't need to carry a spare since it is doubtful someone will be over 7 hours away from an outlet and needing to do continuous work. 7 hours is a full work day (take 30 mins for lunch, and two 15 min breaks in between and you're at a typical 8 hour shift).


Drawbacks

The only drawbacks I see so far of where Apple's products are headed is that you now really have to buy AppleCare+ in case anything goes wrong, as you can't swap the parts yourself easily.

However, this has always been the case as Apple has used custom motherboards for ages and if that went bad your system was shot regardless.

Now the HD is going to have 3rd party upgrades, so that really leaves RAM as the only thing that can go bad. As a computer tech, I have seen RAM only rarely go bad, so the odds are very small.

In any case, this is the biggest drawback of "appliance" machines that I can think of. However, there's risks to using anything and having it break down after the warranty period.

One possible solution is to replace your equipment yearly. Since Apple stuff holds its value well, if you sell your last gen model and buy the current one, you may be looking at a yearly upgrade fee of only a few hundred dollars and you'll get the better specs, a fresh warranty, etc.

However, if you are less paranoid and willing to live like a badass, just use your computer out of warranty until it dies. You may be surprised how long it lasts.

The 2nd hand market for even broken Macs is pretty pricey, so you may even be able to salvage $500 or $1000+ for your broken MBP. Look at eBay prices if you don't believe me. It is not uncommon for broken "as is" Macs to go for 50% of the value of a fully working one.

In any case, the point here is that most of the reasons for why upgradability was important in the past is no longer true going forward.

- No more need for super high HD's thanks to cloud storage and solutions
- RAM giving diminishing returns on performance as to minimize upgrade benefits
- Battery technology being good making externals useless

So not having to worry about upgrades is good, just one less thing to worry about. However, old habits die hard, so many people will psychologically feel the need to tinker with their equipment or feel like they want the ability even if they don't use it.

But future generations who grow up on these machines and don't have the "I used to upgrade my equipment all the time" backgrounds/stories will not find this problematic. Much like no one misses the "Turbo" button on their computer.
 
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i have not seen the new macbook pro in person. I am sure it has a wonderful screen. But i must say i am concerned the direction apple is going with their products. They are making thing so compact, so non-servicable, and so expensive, that it is really making it hard to justify me purchasing some of their new equipment. It just seems wasteful, in a sense. The fact that if you order a new macbook pro with 8gb or ram and have a limited budget at the time you place the order, and three years later you decide you want 16gb - that is not an option. Nor is the easy at all to replace the battery from what i have read. It seems that apple is putting form over function more than ever on their current machines. I have no doubt that the new macbook is a great machine for those that have the money to purchase one and replace it every few years, but it seems that apple is forcing us in that direction and i don't like that feeling.

Just a few things that i would like to see them address-

1) make ram upgradable on macbook air and new macbook pro models
2) allow hard disk upgrades - the new imac has the fan issue and a workaround is required to do that.
3) allow non-apple ssds to utilize trim for maximum longevity and performance long term.
4) make imacs more serviceable. The non-isight g5 imacs were very easy to service, and i don't see any reason with their very intelligent engineers that they could not do the same with the current model.

I am a sucker for hi-res displays, and for large amounts of ram, but i just can't seem to wrap my head around the non-upgradability of the macbook pro. I have upgraded every laptop i have owned - usually ram and hdd/ssd. Right now i see the non-retina display models being the ones i would go with - as you continue to get the additional ports and you can place a 512gb ssd in there with 16gb of ram, and still not have a ton of money in it.

Is anyone else rather disturbed by this trend? I have never used this word before - but is seems that the "mac tax" is going up - to get upgradability you have to get a mac pro (which i would love to have) but obviously that machine is very expensive. Or, you have to pay up front a much higher than market value price for upgrades straight from apple to get the machine maxed out when ordered.

Just thinking out loud...

^^

signed!
 
thats why they are keeping the old style mbp and testing how many new mbp can sold out
next step will be a non upgradeable mac pro :D
 
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thats why they are keeping the old style mbp and testing how many new mbp can sold out
next step will be a non upgradeable mac pro :D
I think it is more because of the price. Just removing the cheaper models would greatly hurt their sales. Price and Demand you know.
They don't want to sell those new ones at the old price point and probably wouldn't be able to handle the demand if they tried.

Me I think a hybrid HDD+SSD on board solution would have greatly improved the Notebook. 768GB is just awfully expensive and in 2 years upgrading is impossible although the upgrade would be rather cheap. Cloud storage doesn't work for everything because it is too slow. I have a fairly decent internet but it wouldn't suffice for 1080p streaming. Even 720p is only possible in lower quality.

The RAM upgradability is not so terrible. The need for more RAM at least in Windows doesn't increase all that quickly. OSX is imo also drifting into the wrong direction. It used to make a lot of different with new OS and ever cheaper RAM prices. After 4 years a RAM upgrade used to be a must in the past. If that is still true with 8GB to begin with. Who knows but for a workstation (which was that sort of is) it seems reasonable that in 4 years 32-48GB might be needed.


That lack of storage space AND upgradability of it really is the worst thing about it. There will be no adding a 3TB hdd sometime down the road. Or a cheap 1-1.5TB SSD when they are available.
It sucks but I could care less as that notebook is also too expensive for me. 2000 bucks I could live with if it is no compromise great. About 3000 is too much and that is what it costs with the necessary upgrades bigger SSD and 16GB RAM since it cannot be upgraded later.

Apples direction is not for me but more so in the OS. MS and Win8 look better along with Asus and others and their convertible notebook plans.
I am no fan of picking up 5 different toys. I don't want an iphone, ipad, MBA, MBP, itv, imac ..
I prefer one convertible notebook and a smartphone. I stream to the TV via DLNA, easy and fast nothing extra needed. One device costs less, is easier to handle, and if I bring that one thing I got everything with me.
 
I think the OP did a great job of posting his opinions and reasons behind them - no need to get snappy.

As for myself, I am okay with this direction that Apple is going. Yes, I'll miss the ability to upgrade myself.. but if that's the sacrifice I need to make to make a product thinner, sleeker, and more pleasant to use, it's a sacrifice I'm willing to make.

See, that's the thing. The kama sutra is but a partial list of the things I don't give whether a product is "thinner" or "sleeker". The MBPs have, for a long time, been FAR thinner than I cared about. It'd be one thing if we were still looking at two inch thick laptops, but we're not. So the only issue remaining is "more pleasant to use".

More pleasant to use, for me, would be more ports, a bit more power, and a matte screen. I would be fine with a machine that was twice as thick as the MBPR, or a bit thicker than, say, a 2010 MBP. Yes, thicker. That would be fine, and if that got us enough heat sink and better fans that we could have a nicer GPU, or a second hard drive, that would be amazing for me.

Instead, we're getting machines which are less capable, more expensive, and are sacrificing the functionality I rely on for "thin". While thin can be sort of nice, I like it to be a secondary consideration after important stuff like "basic functionality" or "maintenance and upgrade options".
 
See, that's the thing. The kama sutra is but a partial list of the things I don't give whether a product is "thinner" or "sleeker". The MBPs have, for a long time, been FAR thinner than I cared about. It'd be one thing if we were still looking at two inch thick laptops, but we're not. So the only issue remaining is "more pleasant to use".

You say that now, but the reality is that if the new Pros did not get thinner or even got a little thicker (while adding new features) everyone would be complaining how they are too fat and unusable.

For proof just check out the uproar caused by the fact that the iPhone 4S didn't get any thinner and how recently the new iPad got slightly thinner prompting more uproar and people talking about how Apple is going down the tubes.

Can't please them all.

And in the case of the specs, you really have a powerhouse of a machine here. Its not like Apple turned the Macbook Pro into an entry level basic use only laptop, this thing has a LOT of power. Definitely one of the most powerful machines you can buy anywhere.
 
I understand the frustration felt by the OP and others over Apple's decision to include ever fewer upgradeable parts in its Macbook line. I, too, struggled with this issue before finally deciding to buy a Macbook Air when the 2010 model was introduced. My decision was driven by the knowledge that the only way Apple could make the wafer thin and ultra lightweight MBA was to use miniaturized components, soldered to the logic board. That's what happened with the new 15 inch MBP Retina, too. Note that the MBP Retina's weight, less than 4.5 pounds, is about the same as that of the 13 inch MBP. The price to be paid for that kind of miniaturization was the elimination of the optical drive and the introduction of non-upgradeable RAM and the substitution of non-upgradeable flash memory in place of an upgradeable but far larger and heavier mechanical hard drive. Like everything else in computer design, these changes represented a tradeoff: lightweight (4.46 pounds) and thin form factor (.71 inches) at the expense of giving up user serviceable and upgradeable parts.

I think Apple's drive toward ever smaller and lighter computing devices is the wave of the future, which we are going to have to live with, like it or not. The upside to all of this is that the components included in such devices will continue to become better and cheaper over time. That's the way it has always been in the computer business, so there's no reason to believe it will be any different in the future.
 

I do agree with the majority of your points.

The RAM is important to me because of virtualization. As operating systems and applications consume more RAM, running virtual networks requires much more RAM than an average user will need. 16GB could be used when running two Windows Server 2012 instances, Windows 8 client instance, Microsoft Exchange instance, and this is not uncommon for my work. I would like to have a "Pro" option that can meet these needs and needs two or three years down the road. I enjoy using OS X and enjoy the UNIX foundation, but perhaps users like me are so few that Apple does not need to meet the requirements like us. Most use ThinkPads and that is probably what I will need to do (I also think they are excellent machines). Perhaps my expectations are too high or too off...

There are some cases where the "cloud" just does not meet the needs of many that use these for work and business. I think it would make more sense to make this recent product an Air and continue making an upgradable model for the Professional users.

I have loads of files on my hard disks for work. Many DVD images, virtual hard disks by the tons, Cisco images, etc. It is not easy to access this data remotely, and I shouldn't have to.

Many locations have metered internet usage, and it seems to be a waste to me to have to access everything over the Internet - particularly if the Internet is not available or the local connection is down.

With that said - I do have iTunes match, and I do like it. I have my lossless library at home on a hard disk. I do not purchase anything form the iTMS as it is inferior quality to compact discs, but I don't mind to use it on portable devices.

This brings to mind the analogy of buying a car with the hood sealed shut. It would be great for a few years, but after that it would be worth very little.

I know the batteries last longer in newer notebooks, but it will go dead and reach the end of its useful life at some point, and this always happens before the useful life of the notebook itself. It may not be in the next two or three years, but it will happen. And the resell of these will not be good with a bad battery.

----------

I think it is more because of the price. Just removing the cheaper models would greatly hurt their sales. Price and Demand you know.
They don't want to sell those new ones at the old price point and probably wouldn't be able to handle the demand if they tried.

Me I think a hybrid HDD+SSD on board solution would have greatly improved the Notebook. 768GB is just awfully expensive and in 2 years upgrading is impossible although the upgrade would be rather cheap. Cloud storage doesn't work for everything because it is too slow. I have a fairly decent internet but it wouldn't suffice for 1080p streaming. Even 720p is only possible in lower quality.

The RAM upgradability is not so terrible. The need for more RAM at least in Windows doesn't increase all that quickly. OSX is imo also drifting into the wrong direction. It used to make a lot of different with new OS and ever cheaper RAM prices. After 4 years a RAM upgrade used to be a must in the past. If that is still true with 8GB to begin with. Who knows but for a workstation (which was that sort of is) it seems reasonable that in 4 years 32-48GB might be needed.


That lack of storage space AND upgradability of it really is the worst thing about it. There will be no adding a 3TB hdd sometime down the road. Or a cheap 1-1.5TB SSD when they are available.
It sucks but I could care less as that notebook is also too expensive for me. 2000 bucks I could live with if it is no compromise great. About 3000 is too much and that is what it costs with the necessary upgrades bigger SSD and 16GB RAM since it cannot be upgraded later.

Apples direction is not for me but more so in the OS. MS and Win8 look better along with Asus and others and their convertible notebook plans.
I am no fan of picking up 5 different toys. I don't want an iphone, ipad, MBA, MBP, itv, imac ..
I prefer one convertible notebook and a smartphone. I stream to the TV via DLNA, easy and fast nothing extra needed. One device costs less, is easier to handle, and if I bring that one thing I got everything with me.

I agree completely. Some users need 16+GB of RAM and depending on projects need more.
 
You say that now, but the reality is that if the new Pros did not get thinner or even got a little thicker (while adding new features) everyone would be complaining how they are too fat and unusable.

I don't believe this is true.

For proof just check out the uproar caused by the fact that the iPhone 4S didn't get any thinner and how recently the new iPad got slightly thinner prompting more uproar and people talking about how Apple is going down the tubes.

The iPhone 4S is not a "pro" model of a full-featured laptop, it's a device which is entirely and exclusively about portability.

What you are saying might make sense for the Air. It doesn't make sense for the Pro line.

And in the case of the specs, you really have a powerhouse of a machine here. Its not like Apple turned the Macbook Pro into an entry level basic use only laptop, this thing has a LOT of power. Definitely one of the most powerful machines you can buy anywhere.

1. It's not raw CPU speed that makes a laptop end-user or pro-user. It's stuff like having suitable ports and expansion options. A machine that has expresscard, ethernet, and firewire, is a lot more pro-oriented than a machine that has just an SD reader.
2. It's really not particularly powerful. I mean, yeah, it has the same model of CPU as an ASUS G55... But the G55 upgrades to 32GB of memory, has two drive bays available, twice the VRAM, and a dramatically faster GPU. Sure, it's a fair bit bigger, and no Thunderbolt yet, but... It's quite a lot more powerful. (It's not really a pro machine in some other respects, mind.)

The MBPR is a really cool machine, but it's a really cool replacement for a MacBook or Air. It's not a credible alternative to a MacBook Pro.
 
I personally like having my MBP to be user upgradable. I can't exactly shell out $2830 CDN for the high end RMBP and I would want more then 256GB of HD space. I don't want to have to connect to an external drive every time I want to use my Mac. No matter how "thin and light" it gets Ram and HD should be user upgradeable. Not every one has thousands of dollars to shell out every couple of years cause they need a new and faster Mac. My last Mac (Macbook late 2006) lasted me 5 years. I'm hoping my new 2011 MBP will do the same.
 
The MBPR is a really cool machine, but it's a really cool replacement for a MacBook or Air. It's not a credible alternative to a MacBook Pro.

Except spec for spec the two are just about equivalent, except you trade firewire and ethernet on the MBP for an extra thunderbolt (which can be used for firewire or ethernet or ...) and HDMI on the RMBP. The MBP you have RAM and HD upgradeability while the RMBP you have higher res screen and lighter weight, and the HD will be upgradeable by OWC/others eventually. Did I miss anything? Depending on your priorities, it could not only be a credible alternative but a superior one.
 
The writing has been on the wall for quite sometime. The way i see it;

The Mac Pro will get one last hurrah and then follow the 17" MBP to the grave. The iMac will get thinner and thinner until it becomes your Cinema Display/TV with some computer components needed to run an OS tacked on.

The MacBook Pro and the MacBook Air will soon merge into one product line...just at different sizes. And further along in future, the iToys will take over from the notebooks.

OS X and iOS will also soon become one.

You guys should buckle up and get ready or start looking elsewhere if you're discontent with whats coming.
 
I understand the frustration felt by the OP and others over Apple's decision to include ever fewer upgradeable parts in its Macbook line. I, too, struggled with this issue before finally deciding to buy a Macbook Air when the 2010 model was introduced. My decision was driven by the knowledge that the only way Apple could make the wafer thin and ultra lightweight MBA was to use miniaturized components, soldered to the logic board. That's what happened with the new 15 inch MBP Retina, too. Note that the MBP Retina's weight, less than 4.5 pounds, is about the same as that of the 13 inch MBP. The price to be paid for that kind of miniaturization was the elimination of the optical drive and the introduction of non-upgradeable RAM and the substitution of non-upgradeable flash memory in place of an upgradeable but far larger and heavier mechanical hard drive. Like everything else in computer design, these changes represented a tradeoff: lightweight (4.46 pounds) and thin form factor (.71 inches) at the expense of giving up user serviceable and upgradeable parts.

I think Apple's drive toward ever smaller and lighter computing devices is the wave of the future, which we are going to have to live with, like it or not. The upside to all of this is that the components included in such devices will continue to become better and cheaper over time. That's the way it has always been in the computer business, so there's no reason to believe it will be any different in the future.

Let's see how you and all the others who sit back and say, "oh well nothing to be done it's the way forward, etc..." when Apple takes away the file system and makes all their computers operate like iPads.

I hate to be paranoid but this closed, full control trend won't stop at the hardware if we don't vote with our dollars and continue to support the remaining upgradable products in Apple's product mix.

As much as I like Apple products and OS X, the day I have to use an iOS-ified version of OS X on my Mac is the day I go back to Windows. <Shiver>

Cheers,
 
Not once have I opened up my computer to upgrade the internals, so it doesn't really bother me. Not to mention that the minimum spec requirement for software seems to have hit a plateau more or less, so I feel 16gb of ram should more than suffice for many years to come.
 
Do you seriously think they're gonna keep the non-retina MBP line beyond the next revision of the RMBP? (I am not being snarky in asking this...I sincerely am asking your opinion)

That really depends on the sales numbers for each machine.

The 17" was likely axed due to poor sales compared to other products.

Apple will do whatever is in the best interest of Apple's business.

They will not make 100% of the users happy but that is not really their goal. Their goal is to maximize profits.
 
2. It's really not particularly powerful. I mean, yeah, it has the same model of CPU as an ASUS G55... But the G55 upgrades to 32GB of memory, has two drive bays available, twice the VRAM, and a dramatically faster GPU. Sure, it's a fair bit bigger, and no Thunderbolt yet, but... It's quite a lot more powerful. (It's not really a pro machine in some other respects, mind.)

And the battery life is what exactly? It sounds like a lot of you would be better served with a desktop. If you are buying a portable computer, you'd think battery life would be pretty high up in your list of priorities. The reason Apple didn't go any higher than the 650M is because all the higher end GPUs are running at far higher TDPs.
 
how many of these type of threads can we expect for the next month? Is there a way to pre-ignore them?

Vote with your wallet, not with your ability to complain about it on a forum.

Stop complaining about fellow Mac enthusiasts who voice their legitimate concerns; this is a discussion forum after all. You could learn a thing or two on the way ;)
 
Watch the sales numbers over the next few weeks/months. You'll get to see if people prefer the new thinner version or the older, more upgradable thinner version. Unfortunately, I don't think you'll be very happy with the results. It may not be 90%, but I'm thinking that a large majority are going to choose thinner over upgradable, even though it's actually a bit more expensive than it would be if they bought the thicker one and did the upgrades themselves.

MacRumors is like its own little world, and people here are quite different than the public at large. There's a huge portion of the public that wants to buy a computer, open the box and use it. They don't have the desire to open it up, switch the RAM, switch the HDD or SSD, etc. Yes, there's a lot of people that do, but most don't. Apple is, in the end, a company that exists to sell products and make money. So they do what they need to do to appeal to the largest audience. It doesn't make them evil, it just makes them smart when it comes to earning money.

You make some great points. My only problem is we seem to be moving to less choice and more of a one-size-fits all mentality. MR is skewed, bur represents a lot of buyers/enthusiasts. Guess I naively hope Apple does not forget this segment of their customer base that does like to upgrade etc. That said, you are right that most buying do not care, so Apple following the $$$.
At the very least, I hope folks on MR can cut the "don't like it? don't buy it" line when someone expresses disagreement/disappointment with aspects of Apple's product lines.
 
Signed for thinking Apple is doing the wrong thing, forcing support agreements and preventing user upgrades.

EVERY PC that I have ever owned (including my 13" MBP) has received a RAM upgrade in its lifetime. RAM prices change dramatically, and software packages get more hungry as the years go by.

I have never updated the hard drive, as I normally go as big as possible.

Can someone enlighten me - some posts refer to the upgradeability of the hard drive through 3rd party...what does this mean?

R
 
I like the direction Apple is headed with their products. If I had to choose between the following:

A) A non-upgradable/repairable laptop without legacy technology that is lightweight and powerful

vs.

B) A 2 inch thick / 8 lb. laptop with an optical drive, rotational hard drive and RAM that could all be replaced

I'd go with option A every time. I ordered my rMBP with 16gb of RAM. I will never have a desire to upgrade it. I can find alternatives for the two times a year I needed an optical drive if it saves weight and space. I would forego a HDD for an SSD any day. Actually, the rMBP is perfect for my needs. Powerful and portable. And judging from the delivery estimates, I'm not alone.
 
I'm far from an ecology fanatic, but making computers that are even more disposable is just wrong.
This is not progress, and we should be looking the other way. Just common sense.
 
At the very least, I hope folks on MR can cut the "don't like it? don't buy it" line when someone expresses disagreement/disappointment with aspects of Apple's product lines.

Its the only "real" way you can voice your opinion. Steve Jobs, at the All Things Digital conference, said this eloquently. A business knows when they've made an error because people don't buy in. There's no use in wasting digital bits trying to convince others that upgradable Macs are a necessity. The first Mac wasn't upgradable Apple direction has really just come full circle.

The "Dude";15057471 said:
I like the direction Apple is headed with their products. If I had to choose between the following:

A) A non-upgradable/repairable laptop without legacy technology that is lightweight and powerful

vs.

B) A 2 inch thick / 8 lb. laptop with an optical drive, rotational hard drive and RAM that could all be replaced

I'd go with option A every time. I ordered my rMBP with 16gb of RAM. I will never have a desire to upgrade it. I can find alternatives for the two times a year I needed an optical drive if it saves weight and space. I would forego a HDD for an SSD any day. Actually, the rMBP is perfect for my needs. Powerful and portable. And judging from the delivery estimates, I'm not alone.

I'm going small and light as well. Computers do NOT have to be huge. As much as people express the desire to upgrade Apple has a lot of information from what comes across the Genius Bar and they know that upgrades aren't something that a majority of people do if they have a computer that handles the current OS and apps fine.

I don't suspect that OS X will require 8GB of RAM anytime soon.

----------

I'm far from an ecology fanatic, but making computers that are even more disposable is just wrong.
This is not progress, and we should be looking the other way. Just common sense.

They are not any more disposable than upgradable computers. Plus most of a MBP is built from recyclable materials. This ecology angle is a strawman argument.
 
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