Does anyone else not like the direction Apple is going with their products?

[danwellsvt]

At least they let us buy 16 GB for a reasonable upgrade cost. VERY few laptops today will take 32 GB, and those that do are big, heavy desktop replacements (HP EliteBook) or even gaming machines that really aren't any more portable than an iMac (various 14 lb Clevo designs). I can't think of a true laptop (less than 8 lbs)with 4 RAM slots, and no MacBook Pro has ever had 4 slots (the 17 certainly SHOULD have, but never did).
Would I have preferred to see 4 slots in the Retina MBP (even trading off 6 ounces to get them) - yes! Is Apple's design any less functional than the 2 slots we'd probably have had - no, and it may be a little better, both for speed and for reliability. The upgrade is fairly reasonably priced, too. It's a little annoying to have to buy the 16 GB option right off (I would have anyway, but many folks might not), but it's not a big deal compared to a 2 slot design. It's much worse in the Air, where, until this week, you couldn't even get 8 GB. Now, you can get 8 GB in the Air, but not 16. The current Airs and the Retina Pro are not RAM-starved, they both have as much as comparable machines from other makers (a few ultrabooks are dual-slot, and will take 16 GB, but most are either single-slot or soldered).The Pro competes against a group of machines that are not soldered, but mostly reach 16 GB in two slots.
The SSD is a similar situation - there's a better design Apple could have used (blade SSD plus a 2.5" bay, or even dual blade SSDs), but it is no worse than the competition. Like 4 RAM slots, dual drives seem to start showing up around 8 lbs. I'd personally have rather seen a 5.2 lb machine with 4 slots (or 16 GB soldered plus 2 empty slots) and 2 bays, but Apple's solution is as powerful as anything any competitor has, and their extra high-speed i/o makes their compromise better than most. They have used their market power to get fast 512 GB SSDs very cheaply compared to what anyone else is selling them for - dual drive systems tend to have a 128 GB SSD and a spinning drive to make up for it.

 

[monkeybagel]

At least they let us buy 16 GB for a reasonable upgrade cost. VERY few laptops today will take 32 GB, and those that do are big, heavy desktop replacements (HP EliteBook) or even gaming machines that really aren't any more portable than an iMac (various 14 lb Clevo designs). I can't think of a true laptop (less than 8 lbs)with 4 RAM slots, and no MacBook Pro has ever had 4 slots (the 17 certainly SHOULD have, but never did).
Would I have preferred to see 4 slots in the Retina MBP (even trading off 6 ounces to get them) - yes! Is Apple's design any less functional than the 2 slots we'd probably have had - no, and it may be a little better, both for speed and for reliability. The upgrade is fairly reasonably priced, too. It's a little annoying to have to buy the 16 GB option right off (I would have anyway, but many folks might not), but it's not a big deal compared to a 2 slot design. It's much worse in the Air, where, until this week, you couldn't even get 8 GB. Now, you can get 8 GB in the Air, but not 16. The current Airs and the Retina Pro are not RAM-starved, they both have as much as comparable machines from other makers (a few ultrabooks are dual-slot, and will take 16 GB, but most are either single-slot or soldered).The Pro competes against a group of machines that are not soldered, but mostly reach 16 GB in two slots.
The SSD is a similar situation - there's a better design Apple could have used (blade SSD plus a 2.5" bay, or even dual blade SSDs), but it is no worse than the competition. Like 4 RAM slots, dual drives seem to start showing up around 8 lbs. I'd personally have rather seen a 5.2 lb machine with 4 slots (or 16 GB soldered plus 2 empty slots) and 2 bays, but Apple's solution is as powerful as anything any competitor has, and their extra high-speed i/o makes their compromise better than most. They have used their market power to get fast 512 GB SSDs very cheaply compared to what anyone else is selling them for - dual drive systems tend to have a 128 GB SSD and a spinning drive to make up for it.

I like the ThinkPad W520 - a much different laptop but it will do 32GB. I am on the fence about getting it for a work computer and get it before they only make six row keyboards. Huge power brick though!

 

[robinpow]

I'm just old fashion Pissed Off!

There is already a thread about items missing from the new Pros, but the idea of dropping whole 17" line and not even saying a word about it, simply pisses me off. Has

Apple forgotten that some of us make our living off these?!?!? By darn if I'm going to try to compare two documents side by side on a 15 inch screen again. I gave my 15" Powerbook away when the 17" came out and I'm NOT going to go backwards.

I just ordered a new 17" one on eBay, and after being a MAC user for 24 years, it may have to be my last one. I don't want to go to the dark side and deal with all that crap on a Window machine, but if they don't bring it back before my AppleCare runs out on the new one... I just may have to divorce Apple.

BTW it takes a lot to get this granny so angry.

 

[cubbie5150]

The direction Apple is going has been obvious for quite some time. It's all about iToyz & other mobile products. I've had a great 6+ year run w/ Apple, but I could be switching soon. Figure I might as well get re-acclimated to Windows w/ Apple going the route of aesthetics over everything else. They DO make beautiful products, though, & the iSheep are buying them up by the truckload.

If my current MBP can last long enough, I'll try to wait until the next iteration of the MBP comes out. I doubt it, but maybe Apple will make a notebook/laptop product with which I can be happy. Based on the orgasmic adulation by the fanboys, the current crop of products is gonna sell big, so consumers like me will simply have to find other products to buy. No hard feelings on my part though (towards the company, that is...the fantards can get together in a circle & rap about how awesome they are cuz they own Apple products for all I care), Apple has treated me well for the most part.

 

[Liquinn]

The direction Apple is going has been obvious for quite some time. It's all about iToyz & other mobile products. I've had a great 6+ year run w/ Apple, but I could be switching soon. Figure I might as well get re-acclimated to Windows w/ Apple going the route of aesthetics over everything else. They DO make beautiful products, though, & the iSheep are buying them up by the truckload.
Hmmm... notice how OSX Tiger has a different shaped dock to Leopard and everything after Leopard? This confirm's it's all about the iToys

 

[leman]

A RAM stick is almost as thick as the MacBook Air itself. A 2.5" SSD drive is actually thicker. How are you going to make them user-upgradeable without sacrificing the current form factor? The only solution would be to develop new extension modules (Apple does this for the SSDs).

Portability > upgradeability! I don't see how possibility to upgrade a single component is worth increasing the size and weight of the whole unit.

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The direction Apple is going has been obvious for quite some time. It's all about iToyz & other mobile products. I've had a great 6+ year run w/ Apple, but I could be switching soon. Figure I might as well get re-acclimated to Windows w/ Apple going the route of aesthetics over everything else. They DO make beautiful products, though, & the iSheep are buying them up by the truckload.

No idea what you are ranting about. Current newest Apple offerings are faster, cheaper and more feature-complete than ever. Their ultraportable MacBook Air is much faster than my 2.5 year old top of the line MacBook Pro while being significantly cheaper, weighting 1/3 and actually having a better display. Really, some people are just never happy.

 

[Exio]

A RAM stick is almost as thick as the MacBook Air itself. A 2.5" SSD drive is actually thicker. How are you going to make them user-upgradeable without sacrificing the current form factor? The only solution would be to develop new extension modules (Apple does this for the SSDs).

Portability > upgradeability! I don't see how possibility to upgrade a single component is worth increasing the size and weight of the whole unit.

There's a certain medium that needs to be met between portability and upgrade ability. As it stands now Apple has the mentality "Thinner is always better" and this is just not accurate and is very ignorant of apple o think this way.

 

[andrezx]

There's a certain medium that needs to be met between portability and upgrade ability. As it stands now Apple has the mentality "Thinner is always better" and this is just not accurate and is very ignorant of apple o think this way.

I disagree, this is a portable device, the thinner the better

 

[sweetbrat]

If it was 90% prefer thin, I can understand their direction, but I don't see it skewed that much. If they continue making both models, it would be great, but I don't expect that.

Watch the sales numbers over the next few weeks/months. You'll get to see if people prefer the new thinner version or the older, more upgradable thinner version. Unfortunately, I don't think you'll be very happy with the results. It may not be 90%, but I'm thinking that a large majority are going to choose thinner over upgradable, even though it's actually a bit more expensive than it would be if they bought the thicker one and did the upgrades themselves.

MacRumors is like its own little world, and people here are quite different than the public at large. There's a huge portion of the public that wants to buy a computer, open the box and use it. They don't have the desire to open it up, switch the RAM, switch the HDD or SSD, etc. Yes, there's a lot of people that do, but most don't. Apple is, in the end, a company that exists to sell products and make money. So they do what they need to do to appeal to the largest audience. It doesn't make them evil, it just makes them smart when it comes to earning money.

 

[James_C]

I like the way Mac's are upgradable:
1.) Time machine backup.
2.) Sell on Ebay.
3.) Buy a new one with the specs you want.
4.) Time machine restore.

Macs are known for good resell value, and I generally buy less expensive machines that when they drop to 60% of their value in a couple years I'm not out too much money (read "not a retina MBP").

For example, if I could upgrade the RAM and SSD in my current 2010 Macbook Air (the RAM I can't, but for sake of argument...), I'd probably spend at least half of the $600 the machine has now depreciated, and I wouldn't benefit from faster RAM and SSD speeds, USB 3, thunderbolt, and a Core i7 over my Core 2 Duo in the new Macbook Airs. Seems like a good value to me.

And, I like buying new computers

I completely agree - make sure you get a Mac that will last you 2 or 3 years then sell it and upgrade. As Astrorider points out the resale value of a Mac in % terms is much higher after 3 years, than a comparable spec PC.

 

[leman]

There's a certain medium that needs to be met between portability and upgrade ability. As it stands now Apple has the mentality "Thinner is always better" and this is just not accurate and is very ignorant of apple o think this way.

I respectfully disagree. In my book, thinner is always better unless you must sacrifice performance. Upgradeability may be important for a server, but for an everyday working machine, mobility, reliability and usability play a much more important role.

P.S. Just so you don't misunderstand, I work with software development and I have built over a dozen custom PCs in the past and also enjoyed it. Still, all these upgradeable machines are much more 'toys' in my eyes than the non-upgradeable Air or RMBP - just because I can get more work done with the later, while investing less time in the maintenance.

 

[Pressure]

Remember the price point of the original MacBook Air?

Now it is their cheapest notebook, interesting right?

 

[leman]

Watch the sales numbers over the next few weeks/months. You'll get to see if people prefer the new thinner version or the older, more upgradable thinner version. Unfortunately, I don't think you'll be very happy with the results. It may not be 90%, but I'm thinking that a large majority are going to choose thinner over upgradable, even though it's actually a bit more expensive than it would be if they bought the thicker one and did the upgrades themselves.

This is not entirely correct. A Samsung 830 series 256GB SSD costs $300. 8GB RAM is around $60. Thus, you need to invest $360 to upgrade the base MBP to the retina specs - and you won't be getting the IPS display, better speakers and the smaller form factor. Another $40 would get you all of this. I don't really think that your 'upgrade it yourself' is cheaper here.

 

[cubbie5150]

I'm impressed that this thread hasn't yet been completely overrun by the Defenders of the Faith. Questioning anything Apple does tends to bring out the nasty in peeps, no matter how sincere the question. My comment above seemed kinda obvious that I was stating a mere opinion, applicable only to me & those like me, yet I get some fanboy quoting only part of my OP & citing a fact that isn't even really responsive to the question. Of course new machines are faster than ever before. I sure as hell hope that's the case due to evolution of components. But Apple isn't the only one making faster machines. Yeah, I know...if I don't like an Apple product, buy something else. Figured I'd preempt that tired rejoinder.

 

[sweetbrat]

This is not entirely correct. A Samsung 830 series 256GB SSD costs $300. 8GB RAM is around $60. Thus, you need to invest $360 to upgrade the base MBP to the retina specs - and you won't be getting the IPS display, better speakers and the smaller form factor. Another $40 would get you all of this. I don't really think that your 'upgrade it yourself' is cheaper here.

Of course it won't be exactly the same. There's no way to make an exact comparison, because the computers don't have exactly the same ports, etc. either. My point is that the costs are pretty comparable, so the market will show us what people prefer...thicker but upgradable or thinner and non-upgradable. It's the best head-to-head you're going to get.

 

[brentsg]

I'm impressed that this thread hasn't yet been completely overrun by the Defenders of the Faith. Questioning anything Apple does tends to bring out the nasty in peeps, no matter how sincere the question. My comment above seemed kinda obvious that I was stating a mere opinion, applicable only to me & those like me, yet I get some fanboy quoting only part of my OP & citing a fact that isn't even really responsive to the question. Of course new machines are faster than ever before. I sure as hell hope that's the case due to evolution of components. But Apple isn't the only one making faster machines. Yeah, I know...if I don't like an Apple product, buy something else. Figured I'd preempt that tired rejoinder.

But I think part of this is that people will defend the philosophy, more than the faith.

Many people are Apple customers simply because they are always pushing for smaller, lighter, easier to use. Faster is good too, but that's something that everyone strives for.

And no, new machines aren't always faster than before. Some people will be willing to make side-grades or even downgrades in CPU performance in order to have a smaller device. We saw this with people migrating to the Air line.

While it's expected that performance moves forward with each generation within a particular product line, an upgrade for many customers may mean a more portable device (rather than a faster one).

 

[tekno]

That's exactly what I am going to do - not buy it. I don't need convincing from anyone on here.

I can deal with an iPad not being upgradable. I have owned two of them, and have not problem with it. But I can't recall seeing a $2199USD computer product that that has no upgrade option for the end user. I just wish they would give consumers the options to make the products be more current for a longer period of time.

I hate the 'If you don't like it, don't buy it" response. As a consumer of Apple products, I have my opinions and like to share them - hence my membership of this forum. Also, realistically, I have two choices - Apple or Microsoft - which is very much a frying pan into the fire situation in many areas.

Back on subject, in 15yrs of owning computers, I've never upgraded/replaced anything so, personally, it isn't a concern of mine. But there are other aspects of Apple's direction that I don't feel comfortable with (the iPhone for example when, on that occasion, I did vote with my wallet, passed on the 4S and bought a Samsung S2).

My switch to the S2 have been surprising and very pleasant, and this was going against the advice of friends and colleagues ("Why are you getting rid of your iPhone? Android is rubbish!").

It has certainly made me consider looking again at Windows - I've not touched it for 8yrs and it must have progressed. If the MBA hasn't moved-on significantly when I come to upgrade, I'll probably looking long and hard at a Windows machine.

 

[skywalkerr69]

That's exactly what I am going to do - not buy it. I don't need convincing from anyone on here.

I can deal with an iPad not being upgradable. I have owned two of them, and have not problem with it. But I can't recall seeing a $2199USD computer product that that has no upgrade option for the end user. I just wish they would give consumers the options to make the products be more current for a longer period of time.

Amen brother.

 

[leenak]

I'm switching completely to Apple with my new rMBP. I've had an old MacBook I've used for a while but I've always kept a Windows system for games. I'm fed up with the other laptop manufacturers. So my rMBP will be my all in one system and will also run Windows (sometime in the next year).

The trend with Apple isn't new and I completely understand how quite a few people aren't happy. Apple doesn't care though. Apple is building systems for the direction they want to go in and you either follow them or you go off in your own direction. As always, vote with your dollars but I'm afraid too many are voting against you.

 

[The Mercurian]

I agree with you OP

In fact I think if they continue down this road - my current 3 month old MBP will be my last mac computer. My next computer will probably be some kind of linux box.

They peaked with Snow Leopard. Since then is heading downhill

 

[dbit]

The point is not that these 'thinner' non-upgradable devices are bad per se. The point is that the product line is narrowing as such to where we won't have much of a choice left. It's obvious the old mbp's are legacy right now and the mac pro is all but a dodo bird. Those of us that have needs that get chopped out of the equation are left without much choice but to leave Apple and use winblows. This wouldn't be such a problem if it weren't a 'two party' OS system. Apple has made themselves THE alternative to windows, but now narrows their product line as such to appeal to specific use cases while ignoring others. I guess this is the problem when the software (the only real windows alternative) is tied to an increasingly narrow hardware platform.

 

[brentsg]

The point is not that these 'thinner' non-upgradable devices are bad per se. The point is that the product line is narrowing as such to where we won't have much of a choice left. It's obvious the old mbp's are legacy right now and the mac pro is all but a dodo bird. Those of us that have needs that get chopped out of the equation are left without much choice but to leave Apple and use winblows. This wouldn't be such a problem if it weren't a 'two party' OS system. Apple has made themselves THE alternative to windows, but now narrows their product line as such to appeal to specific use cases while ignoring others. I guess this is the problem when the software (the only real windows alternative) is tied to an increasingly narrow hardware platform.

It's still just speculation that the product line is narrowing. The Mac Pro just got a minor tweak to improve value and it's confirmed that there is a major overhaul coming in 2013. The retina MBP was ADDED and the original line was kept in place for now. The only thing that went away was the 17".

We can speculate on what's going to happen next, but at this point the product line has widened. They've added the Air line, kept the MBP line, added the retina MBP.. Pricing on the 13" MBP covers for the missing Macbook.

 

[dbit]

The blunder with the Mac Pro was obvious. Apple don't act that schizophrenic without being caught with their pants down. It was a rare moment in my 20 year history with them.

So, the Mac Pro remains on life support, the 17 is gone. It looks like the imac and thin notebooks are the future. Yes the mbp retina was added along with the air line but that's adding to the 'thinner, non-upgradable' category. I'm not saying they wont add more to that category, but they're thinning others.

----------

I guess my basic point was this. If you have set yourself up to be THE alternative operating system for computer users than at least keep a full range of machines, one range for each category. Don't drop power users, and don't alienate people who need some kind of desktop solution besides all in one.

Again, this is the problem with the OS being tied to the hardware. I wish that application developers would seriously start developing for linux. It would solve a lot of problems.

 

[cubbie5150]

It's still just speculation that the product line is narrowing. The Mac Pro just got a minor tweak to improve value and it's confirmed that there is a major overhaul coming in 2013. The retina MBP was ADDED and the original line was kept in place for now. The only thing that went away was the 17".

We can speculate on what's going to happen next, but at this point the product line has widened. They've added the Air line, kept the MBP line, added the retina MBP.. Pricing on the 13" MBP covers for the missing Macbook.

Do you seriously think they're gonna keep the non-retina MBP line beyond the next revision of the RMBP? (I am not being snarky in asking this...I sincerely am asking your opinion)

 

[50thVert]

The only gripe I have is the non-standard SSD. If it had a 7mm 2.5" SSD in it, I'd have one in a heartbeat. I'm definitely in the 1% of people who constantly runs out of storage space (large iTunes library and Virtual Machines) and would like the ability to upgrade that. Apple's 768GB SSD is just insanely priced.