Does anyone else not like the direction Apple is going with their products?

[colour]

its just funny how now people are realizing this.

Fanboys would always have something to say when I raised the issue of apples business plan and direction and now that it has arrived and smacked them in the face they change their tune.

It's simple

A) Apple wants to make the most money possible, I no longer buy this "innovative" angle.
b) The market is changing and apple made this clear as a company through their iOS products, less *******'s are given about the computers they once made and more about expanding their company into other avenues.

apple isn't the apple that it once was, they still make well designed products but so do many other companies these days, it has become much more competitive. The one thing apple has still managed to uphold to the highest standard is their software, which isn't as attractive without well designed computers to run it on and complete the apple experience.

 

[The "Dude"]

A) Apple wants to make the most money possible, I no longer buy this "innovative" angle.

Do you honestly think that Apple's primary motivation in making the rMBP or MBA non-upgradable was money? Not the fact that they have created extremely powerful computers in insanely small unibody designs that require precise components to function.

Or the fact that they would prefer people NOT install 3rd party components in their machines? One of the biggest advantages of Mac vs. Windows is that Windows machines have an almost infinite array of hardware options, many of which can cause conflicts or the dreaded Blue Screen of Death. With an Apple computer, that will never be the case.

I should have prefaced this by saying I consider myself a computing enthusiast. I have taken apart every Mac I have ever owned. My MacMini 2010 Server is running with a 1tb Samsung SpinPoint HDD and a 256gb Intel 320 SDD and 8gb a RAM. I also know that I will never upgrade my rMBP, and I'm ok with this. Practically, I will never have to. It's more powerful than I will ever need it to be in the 5 years I plan on using it.

Apple's products have never been the most upgradable or repairable. And they have every right to have that stance to preserve the image of what they want their products to be.

One might argue that a hardcore computing enthusiast would be better served by a Windows/Linux box anyway.

 

[nuckinfutz]

its just funny how now people are realizing this.

Fanboys would always have something to say when I raised the issue of apples business plan and direction and now that it has arrived and smacked them in the face they change their tune.

It's simple

A) Apple wants to make the most money possible, I no longer buy this "innovative" angle.
b) The market is changing and apple made this clear as a company through their iOS products, less *******'s are given about the computers they once made and more about expanding their company into other avenues.

apple isn't the apple that it once was, they still make well designed products but so do many other companies these days, it has become much more competitive. The one thing apple has still managed to uphold to the highest standard is their software, which isn't as attractive without well designed computers to run it on and complete the apple experience.

Geez you've just described the motives of just about every publicly traded company on Wall Street.

Companies exist to return profits back to their shareholders. Innovation is the lure to get you to buy which hopefully generates profits. You could submit a thousand other companies in Apple's stead here and the story would remain the same.


The Apple back in the day that delivered upgradable computers almost died. When iOS delivers 60% of the profits you're damn right Apple is going to move in that direction.

You guys aren't being Nostradamus here. A child could understand why Apple is doing what it's doing.

 

[spaceballl]

I'm 100% on board for the direction of their hardware. I don't care if it's serviceable. I build linux servers and workstations for fun, and I can tinker with those.

The only thing that concerns me is the direction of OS X. I don't want them to lock everything down so that tinkerers like myself have to "jailbreak" it to run whatever we want on it. I don't think they ever will, but if they do, I'm jumping to Linux Mint or Ubuntu or something like that.

 

[nuckinfutz]

I'm 100% on board for the direction of their hardware. I don't care if it's serviceable. I build linux servers and workstations for fun, and I can tinker with those.

The only thing that concerns me is the direction of OS X. I don't want them to lock everything down so that tinkerers like myself have to "jailbreak" it to run whatever we want on it. I don't think they ever will, but if they do, I'm jumping to Linux Mint or Ubuntu or something like that.

Don't worry they aren't locking OS X down. Gatekeeper pretty much was a nice blend of

"Hey buy from the Mac App Store if you really want curated and safe software. If you don't we'll still give you a way of being protected against malware."

 

[portishead]

I don't know why people ramble on about Apple's intentions. You don't know what their business plan is. It's not always about money, or stockholders. Yes those things are important, but people get so passionate about it to the point where they are talking nonsense. I like a lot of what Apple creates, but they are not my friend, and they have no obligation to do what I think they should do. They are a company, they're going to make what they make, and If I like it, I'll buy it.

Anyway, it should be obvious that making a compact laptop as the Retina MBP is, some design changes have to take place to make everything fit. SSD is still user replaceable. So is the Airport/BT module (although I doubt anyone will upgrade this). Yes, it would have been great if RAM were user replaceable. But you can still get a regular MBP where the user has control over this. It's not like Apple discontinued it. I could care less about upgrading graphics, and that's probably rare on a laptop anyway.

Also, it's the early adopter tax for this Retina MBP. Maybe as manufacturing gets better, they will be able to better fit the parts, and have a user replaceable batter and RAM. We don't know. But again, you still have a choice to get a regular MBP.

Also, with the addition of Thunderbolt, it sort of adds a whole new dimension of upgradability never before seen on computers. You can literally almost add anything.

I think you're wasting tears by worrying if Apple is going to create a closed laptop where it cannot even be opened. Calm down, Apple is not out to screw everyone. Speak with your wallet, there is no reason to cry on a message board about unreasonable speculation

 

[colour]

Do you honestly think that Apple's primary motivation in making the rMBP or MBA non-upgradable was money? Not the fact that they have created extremely powerful computers in insanely small unibody designs that require precise components to function.

Or the fact that they would prefer people NOT install 3rd party components in their machines? One of the biggest advantages of Mac vs. Windows is that Windows machines have an almost infinite array of hardware options, many of which can cause conflicts or the dreaded Blue Screen of Death. With an Apple computer, that will never be the case.

I should have prefaced this by saying I consider myself a computing enthusiast. I have taken apart every Mac I have ever owned. My MacMini 2010 Server is running with a 1tb Samsung SpinPoint HDD and a 256gb Intel 320 SDD and 8gb a RAM. I also know that I will never upgrade my rMBP, and I'm ok with this. Practically, I will never have to. It's more powerful than I will ever need it to be in the 5 years I plan on using it.

Apple's products have never been the most upgradable or repairable. And they have every right to have that stance to preserve the image of what they want their products to be.

One might argue that a hardcore computing enthusiast would be better served by a Windows/Linux box anyway.

you can not self upgrade....... your stuck with what you have for the next 3 years. This is a pro machine right ? you would want it to last as your paying a premium right ? and they could have designed it to be upgradable in RAM and SSD as those components decrease in price and increase in price frequently. Your screwed and I guess we have to buy a new apple product in a year or 2 in order to keep up with new applications and to increase performance on this what you would call a pro machine. It wasn't an issue for so long, they could have developed proprietary SSD and RAM for upgrading reasons if they cared for that .... its clear they don't as they want us to buy more products much more frequently,

 

[colour]

Geez you've just described the motives of just about every publicly traded company on Wall Street.

Companies exist to return profits back to their shareholders. Innovation is the lure to get you to buy which hopefully generates profits. You could submit a thousand other companies in Apple's stead here and the story would remain the same.


The Apple back in the day that delivered upgradable computers almost died. When iOS delivers 60% of the profits you're damn right Apple is going to move in that direction.

You guys aren't being Nostradamus here. A child could understand why Apple is doing what it's doing.

If apple is moving in that direction, one of making the most profits at the expense of building good computers then they should stop playing the charade of being such a good company that focuses on quality, innovation, environmental factors within their designs ect. Apple portrays themselves to be the opposite of what windows was or is, they have developed that image of cutting edge, resolved, forward thinking and superior. That image is certainly not what the company has become.

A side note: In apples keynote at WWDC they put forward some real pr garbage including statistics comparing apple to other companies in mobile phone sales, what apple failed to really tell us is that apple isn't the leading OS developer. Android has been dominating the mobile phone market and that is made up of 2-3 key companies. Steve Jobs and apple circa 2005 would have never even bothered with this kind of marketing and spin, products would speak for themselves. This kind of BS sums up the company these days.

Apple sold out, and made a lot of money from an image that no longer exists, this image is only a façade. Computers are now designed for the mass market and making products to maximize sales is the trend.

Lastly out of all companies apple has the most cash so for you to say that what they are doing is standard. IMO its unethical considering that this isn't a bank or financial institution but rather a "company that innovates" with apparent morals and ethics... and they will sell us that through garbage such as the WWDC keynotes. Yet we can see that through sales and the analysis of products that there are some inconstancies.

 

[Kafka]

They are not any more disposable than upgradable computers.

That's humor right?

 

[Whorehay]

Like others have mentioned, I'm not so much worried about the hardware, but the software. I really don't mind their design philosophy (other than soldered RAM). If it allows them to get 7 hours of battery life from a powerful computer no thicker than a few quarters, I'll take what I can get.

But this whole iOS to Mac OS X thing is terrible. I'll be honest, I don't like Lion when compared to Snow Leopard. I don't like all these iOS "features" that intrude on my computing experience. There are some that are avoidable like Launchpad, but I even use Expose much less than I used to due to the new layout.

I'm actually using Windows 7 a little more now because it has better external display handling (the computer can be open with only the external screen on). It's a simple setting on Windows and it's impossible on Lion (used to be a short workaround in SL and below).

I was really hoping they would make the iPad more like OS X, not the other way around.

 

[daneoni]

I'm actually using Windows 7 a little more now because it has better external display handling (the computer can be open with only the external screen on). It's a simple setting on Windows and it's impossible on Lion (used to be a short workaround in SL and below).

This might help you. It certainly helped me and is probably why i haven't looked back to SL

 

[Rhyalus]

I'm 100% on board for the direction of their hardware. I don't care if it's serviceable. I build linux servers and workstations for fun, and I can tinker with those.

The only thing that concerns me is the direction of OS X. I don't want them to lock everything down so that tinkerers like myself have to "jailbreak" it to run whatever we want on it. I don't think they ever will, but if they do, I'm jumping to Linux Mint or Ubuntu or something like that.

Tinkering with your linux machines is not going to help you upgrade your MBP. What is the connection?

The hardware choice makes upgrading impossible and fixing much more expensive.

R

 

[nuckinfutz]

Upgrading computers just isn't what it used to be.

I remember building my PC and choosing everything from the network card and sound card. Today these features are on the mono so really RAM and storage are all a person needs really to touch.

Storage can be added externally now without losing speed (Thunderbolt or USB 3) and RAM needs begin to diminish after you go beyond 4GB.

Disposable means different things. For some it means a landfill for others it simply means selling and getting a new computer.

When I look at the Retina display I have a hard time not seeing the innovation. Computers aren't innovative because they let you add or remove components (we've done that for decades) what's innovative is the amalgamation of high resolution screens in a package that is almost unbelievably light.

I expect the PC industry will again ride Apple's coattails like they did with the Air.

 

[therealseebs]

Do you honestly think that Apple's primary motivation in making the rMBP or MBA non-upgradable was money? Not the fact that they have created extremely powerful computers in insanely small unibody designs that require precise components to function.

Yes. They're a publically-traded company; if they do something in which their primary motivation is not money, they can be sued.

Or the fact that they would prefer people NOT install 3rd party components in their machines? One of the biggest advantages of Mac vs. Windows is that Windows machines have an almost infinite array of hardware options, many of which can cause conflicts or the dreaded Blue Screen of Death. With an Apple computer, that will never be the case.

If memory required special drivers, this would be a relevant point.

Apple's products have never been the most upgradable or repairable. And they have every right to have that stance to preserve the image of what they want their products to be.

One might argue that a hardcore computing enthusiast would be better served by a Windows/Linux box anyway.

Oh, I have those. It's just that I've mostly been using Macs as my primary user interface platforms for a long time, and that's been contingent on being able to get Macs that had usable screens (not glossy) and all the ports and interfaces I wanted. If I lose that, well, it'll suck having to replace all sorts of tools that I've been using for years, but it will suck less than dealing with an entire hardware lineup designed only for the lowest common denominator.

I was willing to pay a pretty big markup for machines built for professional use. I still would be, if Apple were interested in selling them.

 

[racer1441]

The days of building your own computer are over, and thank god.

We need to move on, don't like it, you'll get left behind. Don't have $200 for the memory upgrade, get a job at McDonald's for two weeks.

The isn't rocket science.

 

[colour]

Disposable means different things. For some it means a landfill for others it simply means selling and getting a new computer.

I expect the PC industry will again ride Apple's coattails like they did with the Air.

wow really, I'm not sure you fully understand what you're saying.

Just cause you're selling it to someone else and not literally throwing it in the garbage to you means you can sleep at night knowing that your not contributing to the cycle? The whole Idea is to create less disposable products, recycling is just a way to minimize the footprint on what already can't be undone. Creating a product such as the MBPR does nothing to combat this issue.

Disregarding environmental design ethics, which I thought apple followed religiously ala the aluminium unibody design and marketing, from a consumer perspective wouldn't it make more sense for the product to be cheaper as the "professional" label of this machine would be sub par in 10 months and outdated in 2 years without any means of upgrading it to increase its longevity for the targeted user. People tend to hold on to their Mac Pros for 4-5 years + at least, I just don't see most people doing so with the MBPR

MacBook Pro (15-inch Early 2010) = 6422

MacBook Pro (Retina) = 11054

2014 NEW APPLE MACBOOK PRO PRODUCT = 20 000 ?

Sadly, I think the pc market will follow suite and why? Not because "we can't compete with apples great designs so we are going to copy them" because this design idea of reducing physical size at the expense of future upgradable is a poor one. I am still yet to see anyone come up with a relevant or positive reason to support why the design of the MBPR is actually beneficial in anyway besides the reduced thickness. To me it seems that this is an opportunity for companies such as apple to maximize profits, you can no longer opt for 3rd party upgrades apple has strategically created a product that they will make all their money from, and they wont let anyone else capitalize from their products. This design choice only helps apple and their bank accounts, not the consumers and for this reason I can see all the other big computer companies jumping onto this strategy for same reasons as apple.

Anyone thinks this is a great idea, wait till we see the re designed iMacs, thinner ! compact ! retina display ! No upgradable options either despite the fact that its a desktop computer that will never leave your desk for 3 years.

If anyone can justify that then please do.

 

[JohnDoe98]

People tend to hold on to their Mac Pros for 4-5 years + at least, I just don't see most people doing so with the MBPR

Why not? My old 2007 MBP still runs fine and I've already tested it on Mountain Lion, again no problems whatsoever. Yes I can "upgrade" it if I want, but the point is without any upgrades the computer runs just fine, and will continue to run perfectly fine even in 2013. I doubt it'll get OS X 10.9, but we don't always need to have the latest operating systems. So unless some component dies, I can foresee this computer still being perfectly fine for the majority of users even into 2014.

The new RMBP is just as capable, if not even more so, than my old 2007 MBP was at the time, so I see no reason whatsoever to think one would need to discard it in 3 years. It'll be fine for 5-6 years too.

Finally, it's time all of you face the fact that, in ~10 years, all the components will be fully integrated into the CPU die. The era of upgradability is on its way out, time for you to start getting with the new trend. Cry all you want during this transitioning phase, that won't change a thing.

 

[astrorider]

I am still yet to see anyone come up with a relevant or positive reason to support why the design of the MBPR is actually beneficial in anyway besides the reduced thickness.

I'm not an industrial designer/engineer but that doesn't seem to stop anyone else, so I'll try:

1.) Reduced size and weight.
2.) Increased rigidity. With few exceptions, every phone and laptop with a battery compartment has inevitably felt creaky compared to my iPhone and battery compartment-less Macbooks.
3.) More generally speaking, requiring a laptop to be user upgradable is a design constraint. I don't claim to have knowledge of whether removing that constraint was taken advantage of with the MBPR beyond reducing 1) and 2) above, but I can certainly imagine scenarios where it could make a big additional difference. Even a game of Tetris teaches how a poor part placement will lead to a sub-optimal arrangement of the other pieces. Now include fitting pieces together where you have to consider airflow, elastic and thermal properties of materials, bus speeds, and imagining the benefit of removing user upgrades (hatches, RAM/SSD placement, etc), that the overwhelming majority of people don't take advantage of, isn't difficult.

 

[monkeybagel]

Do you honestly think that Apple's primary motivation in making the rMBP or MBA non-upgradable was money? Not the fact that they have created extremely powerful computers in insanely small unibody designs that require precise components to function.

Yes, I do.

Conveniently, they are doing away with the optical drive machine by machine. What does this do?

1) Makes it less attractive to purchase Compact Discs for Audio to rip into iTunes, which is what iTunes was originally about.
Solution: buy all your music from the iTunes Music Store.

2) Makes it less convenient to create Audio CDs from your music library - purchased from iTunes or otherwise.
Solution: Buy an iPod or an iPhone, and a car integration kit, or order a new car with an iPod or iPhone interface.
Solution: Purchase a Made for iPod/iPhone accessory/sound dock to listen to your music.
Solution: Purchase an external SuperDrive to write CDs of your music.

3) Make it less convenient to watch movies on your computer. Eliminate the SuperDrive to prevent users from watching DVDs or ripping DVDs for their computer, iPhone or iPad, or recording content on a DVD to watch on their HDTV.
Solution: Purchase movies from the iTunes store to watch on your iPhone, iPad, or notebook.
Solution: Make uses purchase an AppleTV to stream their movies created on their iPhone or iPad to their HDTV.

4) Do not put a Blu-ray drive in the computer, and do not make an external accessory for Blu-ray.
Solution: Make HD content available for a premium on the iTunes store.

Do you see a pattern here? It doesn't take a whole lot of thinking to see what is happening.

 

[nuckinfutz]

Why not? My old 2007 MBP still runs fine and I've already tested it on Mountain Lion, again no problems whatsoever. Yes I can "upgrade" it if I want, but the point is without any upgrades the computer runs just fine, and will continue to run perfectly fine even in 2013. I doubt it'll get OS X 10.9, but we don't always need to have the latest operating systems. So unless some component dies, I can foresee this computer still being perfectly fine for the majority of users even into 2014.

The new RMBP is just as capable, if not even more so, than my old 2007 MBP was at the time, so I see no reason whatsoever to think one would need to discard it in 3 years. It'll be fine for 5-6 years too.

Finally, it's time all of you face the fact that, in ~10 years, all the components will be fully integrated into the CPU die. The era of upgradability is on its way out, time for you to start getting with the new trend. Cry all you want during this transitioning phase, that won't change a thing.

Exactly

The assumption being made here is that "upgrades are the only way to increase longevity of a given computer"

Which normally follows logic until you start to discuss the context of how people use computers today.

A decade ago a computer was just starting to really do multimedia. Our OS became adept at managing media and that required a lot more horsepower.

I'm not saying something equally powerful isn't coming but today's consumer has no problems handling audio, video and communications. It's looking like the average Mac being sold has the capability to last over its total lifecycle in my cases without any upgrades.

a RMBP with 8GB of RAM and 256-512GB may not satiate the needs of a Professional for 5 years but few products do.

 

[monkeybagel]

I just wanted to add to this thread since I got to see a new retina MacBook Pro last night in person.

I was prepared to really be amazed. Unfortunately, I was not.

The iPhone 4/4S screens look totally amazing to me and I love mine. The "new iPad" screen is absolutely gorgeous. I hope to obtain one soon.

The new MacBook left much to be desired. It wasn't that the screen quality was "bad." It's that the OS did not merge the old and new technologies as well as I expect. I opened Safari on the default 1400x900 "retina" setting and was amazed at how the poor anti-aliased fonts looked. They just were not clear like I was used to seeing. Granted I believe many of these fonts were images and not fonts (I hope so), but the screen was not impressive to me. Perhaps my expectations were too high and I was expecting to be blown away. I didn't spend anytime in the iLife apps - perhaps they looked better. But I think it will take some time for this technology to get mature enough for most applications to look nice.

I did play around with the scaling, and when set to the default scaling, Safari did scroll fairly smooth and was a pleasure to use. When the scaling was turned down and the simulated resolution was increased, the scrolling was very poor and not smooth at all on http://www.apple.com. The video card was really being strained at this task dealing with this many pixels.

A verbose boot showed the native resolution of the screen, and that was incredible. So much real estate could be placed on that screen at one time if it would show the native resolution. I would very much like for that to be at least an option if some wanted to use that.

I spent about 10 minutes with the machine so I didn't get to do a full evaluation. I did restart it a few times and startup was fast. Application launch was fast, but neither was any more impressive than the less expensive Air (at least for the price difference).

No doubt the machine would do great a rendering, video processing, encoding, and other CPU intensive tasks.

I have no idea why Apple does not change the display in the 13" MacBook Pro to the one used in the Air. This would be a nice higher resolution screen than it currently has, and I think this would greatly increase sales of that machine. Still the 13" or 15" standard would be the machine of choice if I was going to purchase a new one and I would upgrade the RAM and HD and would have a wonderful machine. Possibly one of the last truly wonderful machines that Apple releases.

 

[colour]

Why not? My old 2007 MBP still runs fine and I've already tested it on Mountain Lion, again no problems whatsoever. Yes I can "upgrade" it if I want, but the point is without any upgrades the computer runs just fine, and will continue to run perfectly fine even in 2013

Well why did you upgrade your harddrive to 500gb? the stock one should have lasted you 5 years?

 

[jeblis]

I know you can't upgrade the processor, video chip, screen, or keyboard either. Apple sucks man.

 

[JohnDoe98]

Well why did you upgrade your harddrive to 500gb? the stock one should have lasted you 5 years?

I did that before I knew about iTunes Match. I needed the space for my huge music collection since running the music off the Airport Extreme external HDD was becoming more of a nuisance than it was worth so I wanted an internal drive capable of dealing with the extra space needed.

Well, since iTunes Match, I uploaded all my music, backed it up to my Time Capsule, and deleted all the files and now just stream it all. My current total HDD usage is now 80gbs again. I could, and probably will, pull the 500gb drive back out and sell it, re-installing the 120gb drive. Or I'll just sell the entire machine since I ordered a new RMBP. But I did that (order the RMBP) not because I "needed" a new machine, this one is still perfectly capable and still much faster than most 2009 and 2010 MBAs (my sister has one so I know this firsthand through using the MBA), but because I was so impressed with Retina on my iPhone and iPad that I want it on my laptop too. I also want to be able to Airplay mirror my system and the 2007 MBP can't do that.

Nice try to call me out though.

Oh, and you'll surely notice having read my other posts and thereby knowing I upgraded the drive which I didn't mention here, I order the RMBP with 256gbs, the smallest option they had. I did not go for a 500gb drive again.

 

[monkeybagel]

But I did that (order the RMBP) not because I "needed" a new machine, this one is still perfectly capable and still much faster than most 2009 and 2010 MBAs (my sister has one so I know this firsthand through using the MBA), but because I was so impressed with Retina on my iPhone and iPad that I want it on my laptop too.

Did you look at one before you bought it? I just saw one last night for the first time and was expecting the same from what I have gotten used to on the iPad and iPhone. It is not the same. Not at all.

I am sure it will be a great screen when apps get updated, but the scaling that must be done does not make it as clear and sharp as the iPhone and iPad.

----------

I know you can't upgrade the processor, video chip, screen, or keyboard either. Apple sucks man.

Can you not upgrade the keyboard or video card?

----------

a RMBP with 8GB of RAM and 256-512GB may not satiate the needs of a Professional for 5 years but few products do.

It would be much more likely to do so if it was upgradable. Other products are upgradable. Those of us who enjoy Apple products and like an alternative to run professional application to Windows would like upgradability.

I have no problem with Windows and work with it everyday. But I also love technology, and thus love Apple products and OS X. I just hope it stays an option for me and others that may use it for the same purposes I do.