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Does Apple Have a Scott Forstall a problem? [MERGED]

bbplayer5 said:
Its honestly time for Apple to start copying Android.
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Nah, even though I'm incredibly frustrated at Apple for not updating iOS in so long (if ever) I still really love iOS and really hope they veer off in their own direction when they do finally truly update their OS. That's also why I'm hoping Microsoft succeeds as they have something truly innovative and hopefully will encourage through competition Apple to get off their laurels.
 
Problem is it seems with Siri, Maps, Passbook etc. we're setting the bar pretty low and of something works just OK or just some of the time it's considered good enough. If you're going to release something like passbook you should have lots of 3rd party partners lined up ready to go at launch.
 
I'm very worried about where Apple is going. We've got a CEO who is blind to anything but numbers, and a head of iOS who can't seem to deliver headline features that work reliably.

I understand that they like to keep the software teams lean to keep quality high, but when your competitors are beginning to run rings around you, surely just a few more cooks won't spoil the broth? It's not like they don't have the cash for some new hires, and they need to do it earlier, not reactively as happened this week with Maps.

I just feel sorry for Jonny Ive and everyone else at Apple who really are delivering.

Most importantly, somebody do something about Forstall. After two headline features (Siri and Maps) that, whilst theoretically impressive, have been lacklustre, they can't afford for iOS 7 to fail to impress. Not when Windows Phone (which, as an underdog and a genuine innovation, I'm secretly cheering for) and, Android *shudders*, are seriously upping their game.
 
iseras said:
This is coming from a diehard apple fanboy- but in my opinion, iOS 6 is a total failure. It's main feature, "Maps" is a disaster. Its other main feature, "Passbook", isn't even really useable yet. And the rest of the updates are so minor you'd really have to dig deep to find what they were.

The responsibility for this failure is on Scott Forstall. He's heading iOS, and I bet he must be facing a lot of heat (or at least I hope). I love the iPhone 5- it's such a fantastic phone, but I truly feel it's been let down by this update. I wonder what's going on?! Did you guys see him during the iPhone 5 event? He almost looked bored and showed zero enthusiasm- all the while touting maps as the best maps ever, which clearly isn't the case. It's shameful.

In any case, things obviously need some shaking up on the iOS front, and it mostly falls down on Forstall's shoulders.
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Passbook and similar concepts from other manufacturers like it will need time to develop to see what their true potential is. We were never going to see the full extend of its capabilities on day 1.

On the other hand, I do agree with you. Normally, iOS updates leave Apple fans something to look forward to, but this didn't have it. Even if Maps would not have bombed, its still would have only been a slightly better app that iOS has had for years.

Sadly, like many of here have been speculating for weeks, iOS 6 screams to me of an Apple running out of ideas.

This wouldn't have happened if a certain man was still heading Apple.
 
I'm not sure that forstall should be sacked, I just think he probably needs tighter supervision. The only things iOS has really failed to deliver on is Siri and Maps, both of which were admittedly major tent pole features, but other than that the OS on the whole has only moved from strength to strength during Forstall's tenure. Lets not forget this is the guy who oversaw the conceptualisation and ultimately the creation of a mobile OS that was above and beyond anything we'd imagined in 2007, so he's clearly an able guy, he also oversaw the generation of an SDK which has seen iOS become the prominent mobile platform for mobile apps. I do agree that to an extent Forstall has failed to deliver on two recent promises, but remember, when the Mac was failing, Apple chose to force Jobs out, looks how that turned out…
 
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Half the time when I ask Siri a question It says "I don't know what that means" and then asks if I want it to search the web.
 
daveishere said:
Passbook and similar concepts from other manufacturers like it will need time to develop to see what their true potential is. We were never going to see the full extend of its capabilities on day 1.
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Didn't need it's full capabilities at release, but it should have been more developed than what it was.

When Apple released the App Store, there were more than 5 working apps in it.
For something that they push as one of the main reasons to upgrade, there's no reason they didn't work closer with (MANY) stores/ companies to offer more at launch... especially those that they demoed months previous.
 
I'll go with "virtual" beatdown.

iOS 6 certainly is overwhelming. While the speed and stability are phenomenal, there are a few things (in my preferred order of priority) that apple needs to think about implementing in some way:

-Quick access to certain settings, like brightness, wifi, Bluetooth.
-Keep folders and the app grids, but give us a new home page with some sort of widgets
-a file system that apps and emails can access
-USB file storage. Can be separate from on board music and video to prevent piracy, but accesible to apps and email
-allow apps to integrate with Siri
-either put all app setting in the app or in settings or somehow link them, having some settings in either place is annoying.
-allow users to change the default mail, calendar, browser, etc, so that other apps that point to these will go to the new defaults instead.
-give Siri access to settings, and ability to do minor trouble shooting
 
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Yeah, "Scott Forstall should be sacked over this". 🙄

FFS, I'd bet a large percentage of the people bitching about the Maps app barely used the damn thing on iOS 5 and below.
 
i only wish apple not to follow and copy android but go it's own way, set the path and continue to innovate. not get left behind i mean.

just for the hopes of it being read by someone, knowing i will not get an answer, i e-mailed tim cook the other day saying;

"please don't change your company philosophy to it just sells from it just works. or you'll become microsoft in the 90s and i don't want that."

if people would mass email this that would make the message clear for them i think.
 
WeegieMac said:
Yeah, "Scott Forstall should be sacked over this". 🙄

FFS, I'd bet a large percentage of the people bitching about the Maps app barely used the damn thing on iOS 5 and below.
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I used it a few times, very little problem or no problems at all. But I must admit I was nervous the first time I used it go to a new area of the city... Whatever it is, map isn't a good software. The apology should have come from sf not from tc.
 
HazyCloud said:
Passbook has only been out a little over a week. Give it some time to develop. As for Maps, I personally haven't had any issues with it. If you are having issues, there's plenty of alternatives.
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Passbook was announced well before then in order to give devs time with which to work with it.

Now that it's here we have a handful of apps and the experience is not exactly smooth. And compared to NFC scanning codes manually is a chore--and sometimes a challenge.

The best thing that can be said about Passbook? Well, unlike Newsstand it can be hidden away in a folder.



Michael
 
thasan said:
I used it a few times, very little problem or no problems at all. But I must admit I was nervous the first time I used it go to a new area of the city... Whatever it is, map isn't a good software. The apology should have come from sf not from tc.
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The one thing in that article above that I did agree with is that Apple are known for under promising and over delivering, but with Siri and now Maps this has not been the case. I think Apple's track record along with our own expectations have as much to do with Maps being a flop as the lack of proper mapping data.

Remember Google Maps when it first started? Yahoo's maps were superior, and it took Google time and end user patience to get to where it is today as the mapping industry leader. Apple will get there in time, but I'd still have preferred one more year of Google Maps on iOS with the Apple version being worked on 24/7 before being unveiled in iOS 7.
 
Let's look at this from a different point of view.

Scott is a young, energetic, arrogant ideas guy. He comes up with loads of good/bad ideas, and is a risk taker.

Who is the CEO? Cook, a very safe pair of hands. He would almost certainly want incremental updates, don't upset the fan base, steady evolution etc.

I said at the time, Forstall didn't look bored at the KeyNote - he looked upset and embarrassed. I think he is struggling to get his ideas through.
 
I suggest just stop complaining and be happy that any new features get added at all. To be honest, I would rather have smaller updates more frequently with new features/fixes than an update that everyone is counting on to be mind blowing with countless new features.
 
cclloyd9785 said:
I suggest just stop complaining and be happy that any new features get added at all. To be honest, I would rather have smaller updates more frequently with new features/fixes than an update that everyone is counting on to be mind blowing with countless new features.
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Smaller updates more frequently? We seem to now be getting small updates once per year. Not what I would describe as "frequent". And I'm not going to hold my breath for features within 6.x updates, just bug fixes (like all 5.x updates were).

As for Forstall, he is probably the biggest arrogant bastard on the Apple campus. Jobs should have taken care of him when he could, but he was too busy being entertained by the sibling rivalry between him and Ive.
 
Scott likely went ahead with the blessings of Tim, who couldn't have not known how bad maps was. This is an apple issue, no point trying to pin the blame on a single person.

That said, Scott's presentation style of late intrigues me. He definitely seems more confident on stage (smug even), and likes to give that arrogant smirk from time to time when demonstrating a feature.

I can see him being a Steve successor in terms of stage presence and charisma,
 
I used it but could really only use it when I was a passenger, not the driver, trying to get to someplace we didn't know where it was. Now that it has turn by turn, it's expected that people can use it along and it needs to at least give them the correct directions.
 
What they have is a trust issue. Jobs said himself that he doesn't micro manage every division. You have to trust those people who you assign a job and when everything comes together you have a great product. Forstall dropped the ball on this and now Cook has a big problem. I don't think Cook will have as much trust in Forstall's ability to deliver a flawless/finished OS, as he shouldn't.
 
Yes, iOS is still the same basic operating system it has been since the original iPhone's launch.

The problem as I see it is that they've introduced significant "high profile" new versions of iOS with "key" features - Siri and now Maps - in the last two iterations.

And neither feature has been without problems.

In business, if you want to introduce a "new" product and get people to buy in to it, you need a killer feature (or two) and a high-profile launch customer.

We all know Apple Maps is a mess, and Siri is evolving - slowly - I truly think one of the underwhelming features of iOS 6 is Passbook; great in theory, but at launch, nobody on board - it's like Apple have said - "here's a framework, app developers, do with it what you will".

What the iOS team *should* have done - and this does fall on Scott Forstall - is partner with some significant businesses before the launch of Passbook, so that those businesses had testing and working apps ready to go on iOS6 launch day - that's how you get people to buy-in and use a new product.

That they didn't, and that Passbook-supported apps will dribble out over the coming months, does smack a little of a lack of focus on iOS6 key features.

Apple has, I think, focussed too much on 'eye candy' features like 3D flyover - which looks nice, but has no real-world use or purpose for most end-users.

But (for example) a working app from Starbucks (other coffee shops are available) that integrated with Passbook on the release of iOS6, would - again, in my humble opinion - be more "progress" in terms of actual usability of the iOS release.

Maybe it's not Forstall totally to blame - but it does seem that someone at Apple isn't completely looking at the actual real-world usability of iOS, and instead, placing too much effort on gimmicks.
 
Apple is great at coming up with ideas but is so afraid of ruining the reveal that they don't properly partner with other companies to have content at launch. They launched an empty Passbook. They should have directly worked with Starbucks, airlines, Target and even their own retail department to have all this ready AT LAUNCH. Don't launch and wait for everyone to adopt.

Shiny new apps with no content. Stupid. Big buzzkill. Scott should be much smarter than this.
 
I agree with the bit that states that Siri & Maps represent two consecutive cock ups that are core to what Forstall does at Apple.

However, in my opinion he'll still end up as CEO though.
 
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