Great list! Maybe email to sforstall@apple.com, I've heard emailing tcook@apple.com occasionally gets a response.
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Does Apple Have a Scott Forstall a problem? [MERGED]
- Thread starter TheReadyPrompt
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Great list! Maybe email to sforstall@apple.com, I've heard emailing tcook@apple.com occasionally gets a response.
Not necessarily. But do we really need 50 of them all saying the same thing. If you are having issues with your iPhone or with ios 6 sell it, throw it away, stomp it, or return it, do something about it. Posting this crap on an internet message board is not going to solve anything for anybody.
Neither has Mac OS (in terms of what you are referring to regarding iOS) and Mac OS seems to be doing perfectly fine.
In my opinion... Yes Apple does have a Forstall problem. Never cared for the man, I skip through all his portions of keynotes because he really bothers me... He comes off arrogant and self absorbed... Great the guy helped give us iOS but he is nowhere near the level of Steve...
I think it's pretty clear now that the reason the iPhone launch was a success on the software side is because of Steve Jobs. Certainly Forstall must have made some contributions, but it was Jobs who was the tastemaker, Jobs who was a human laser that drilled to the heart of problems. Forstall's major 'contribution' post-Jobs has been upping the skeuomorphic ante to ridiculous levels. Jony Ive doesn't like working with him and it's pretty clear he doesn't like the design of the software on his beautiful hardware, either.
I wrote a letter to Tim suggesting that Jony Ive be put in charge of design for all products, both hardware and software. He's the closest guy Apple has to Jobs in terms of intuitive taste. Forstall should probably be moved aside to and let someone else within the software side step up. I don't believe Tim is really intimately aware of the products on the iOS side; I think he's still head-down in the operations side. So Apple needs a leader who can make sure the job gets done and the right choices get made. Tim is not a products guy and never will be; Jobs admitted as much himself. Leave Tim to make sure Apple is a well-oiled machine, and give Ive the latitude to innovate and make sure the innovative ideas translate into shippable products.
I wrote a letter to Tim suggesting that Jony Ive be put in charge of design for all products, both hardware and software. He's the closest guy Apple has to Jobs in terms of intuitive taste. Forstall should probably be moved aside to and let someone else within the software side step up. I don't believe Tim is really intimately aware of the products on the iOS side; I think he's still head-down in the operations side. So Apple needs a leader who can make sure the job gets done and the right choices get made. Tim is not a products guy and never will be; Jobs admitted as much himself. Leave Tim to make sure Apple is a well-oiled machine, and give Ive the latitude to innovate and make sure the innovative ideas translate into shippable products.
All this Passport defending just reminds me of Ping defenders a few years ago. the product presented on stage isn't the problem because they are decent "bonus" features, but when you dedicate half an hour bragging about how awesome it is then you better have a product that delivers. And Passport is NOT at all what ANYONE expected. (And I don't say that as a hater, I love the concept but reality is that, for both average AND experienced users, it requires far too many hoops to jump through with very little payoff.)
As for Forstall, his number was up years ago. Apple Hardware keeps getting dragged down and criticized unfairly but the real blame is the software. Think about how far ahead Apple was when iPhone OS was first introduced, but in the last 3 years the major flagship features have been Multitasking (iOS4), Siri (iOS5), and Maps (iOS6). Is this really the speed at which Apple is capable of or is this just a mismanaged team that is dragging down the rest of the product line?
As for Forstall, his number was up years ago. Apple Hardware keeps getting dragged down and criticized unfairly but the real blame is the software. Think about how far ahead Apple was when iPhone OS was first introduced, but in the last 3 years the major flagship features have been Multitasking (iOS4), Siri (iOS5), and Maps (iOS6). Is this really the speed at which Apple is capable of or is this just a mismanaged team that is dragging down the rest of the product line?
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What an apologistic load of crap. An app has to be heavily used in order for "accuracy" to be a requirement? Life boats on cruise ships rarely get used so if a few have holes in it then just tell those whiners still on deck to chill out.
Forstall just creeps me out big time. I don't know if he blinks or not, but his eyes seem forever stuck in a surprised/overly happy look. In his presentations he tries to make the overemphasize the smallest improvements/features, and I usually hear what sounds like sympathy clapping in the audience after he does this.
I think he did great bringing the iPhone to fruition, but I do agree it seems to be slowing down. At the same time, I honestly don't know what else there is to do that I feel is lacking (for my needs at least).
I think he did great bringing the iPhone to fruition, but I do agree it seems to be slowing down. At the same time, I honestly don't know what else there is to do that I feel is lacking (for my needs at least).
What the heck are you talking about? What hoops do users have to go through? You buy a plane ticket ON YOUR MAC and you get a popup asking you if you want to add it to your passbook. Then it is added ON YOUR PHONE. What hoops exactly do you have to go through I don't understand. It is called passbook, you know, it needs passes.
I really don't understand why people are disappointed at passbook. Passbook is an ecosystem feature. Just like in-app purchases. It is in the hands of the developers and it takes sometime till you start seeing apps and websites adopting it, which THEN will start benefiting end users.
Regarding iOS 6 as a whole, true innovation and great ideas takes time....years. So whatever you are "expecting", ain't going to happen in a few months. If you look at your complaints, it is exactly the same complaints others are firing at the new iPhone. "Meh, boring..." "nothing new". I personally don't have issues with iOS 6 and lots of the iOS 6 meat is in the frameworks.
You either eat fast food or wait an hour for your meal to be ready.
Passbook is a joke compared to things like google wallet because it can't be used in existing infastructure. Google wallet actually works at a ton of places because it uses the existing mastercard paypass infastructure. The majority of newer credit machines take this already. I use it all the time. Passbook requires the company to set up a whole new system with scanning involved which is not how most pos systems handle payments. All around it is much more difficult to integrate into existing pos systems and quite frankly will most likely not catch on.
iOS6 is a Scott Forstall problem in the narrow view, but it's just another in a growing list of symptoms of the larger problem. Apple is leaderless. Yes, there's a guy in the office, sitting at the desk, but he's no leader.
Apple is full of wacky creatives. It used to have Steve Jobs to reel them in. He would say no as often, if not more so, than yes.
Now it seems that no is being said far less often, and yes far too often.
Yes, let's spend a disproportionate amount of time and energy programming funny stuff for Siri to say.
Yes, lets spend a disproportionate amount of time and energy making 3D maps out of leftover Quake II textures that do absolutely nothing to get people where they need to go, instead of concentrating on nailing basic maps.
Yes, let's change things for the sake of changing them.
Yes, let's not add things that people have been clamoring for since the first iPhone.
Yes, let's make it nearly impossible to find what you're looking for on the App Store.
People went on and on about the genius of Steve Jobs. Sure, he had some cool ideas and was a great showman. But the qualities he had that made Apple what it is today, were his borderline personality, his micro managing, his OCD, his ability to badger, berate and belittle, then kiss and make up, and above all, his ability to instill fear into the hearts of his employees, his vendors, his retail partners, everyone who crossed his path. Everyone feared the wrath of Steve.
No one fears the rath of Tim Cook. There is no rath of Tim Cook. Tim Cook is Apple's stepdad.
Vendors don't fear him. That's why the iPhone 5 was so leaky that a fully functioning phone was built from parts leaked by myriad vendors. That's why Goophone patented Apple's own design before they even launched it.
Scott Forstall doesn't fear him. That's why he had either the loudest or the most final say in iOS6. SJ would have shot down the new App Store design in about 3 seconds and Forstall would have run home with his tail between his legs.
Jonny Ive and his design boys are now a loose cannon too. SJ was all about materials. What does Tim Cook know about materials? He knows how much they weigh on a cargo ship. That's about it. Jonny Ive wanted a black metal iPhone. Steve Jobs probably shot it down 50 prototypes ago. But now Jonny gets his way. In the eyes of a nice guy like Tim Cook, Jonny Ive is probably the closest embodiment to what Steve Jobs stood for and the next person after Steve to get the most credit for where Apple is today, so of course he will defer to Jonny's penchant for a black metal phone, especially since he doesn't know anything about materials.
And I've said it many times, Tim Cook's supply-guy tactics of manufacturing far more product than Steve Jobs did is great for short term bottom lines, but bad for the long term status of the cult of desire for Apple products.
Tim Cook made millions of iPad 3s. There were no lines at the stores. No news cameras. No real buzz. Just a **** ton of iPads.
Steve knew that people want what they can't have. He knew how to get people drooling...dangle the iDevice in front of them for a couple of months before releasing worldwide. That may have meant less iDevices sold on launch day, but it also meant a lot more free press and a lot more cult status, which carried over to the next product, and the next.
With Tim driving, the world is blanketed in iProducts all at once. The vendors leak the parts with no repercussions. The lines to buy are smaller. News about bad decisions in the software is louder than the news about the devices themselves. That's ared flag that something is wrong at the top.
Apple is full of wacky creatives. It used to have Steve Jobs to reel them in. He would say no as often, if not more so, than yes.
Now it seems that no is being said far less often, and yes far too often.
Yes, let's spend a disproportionate amount of time and energy programming funny stuff for Siri to say.
Yes, lets spend a disproportionate amount of time and energy making 3D maps out of leftover Quake II textures that do absolutely nothing to get people where they need to go, instead of concentrating on nailing basic maps.
Yes, let's change things for the sake of changing them.
Yes, let's not add things that people have been clamoring for since the first iPhone.
Yes, let's make it nearly impossible to find what you're looking for on the App Store.
People went on and on about the genius of Steve Jobs. Sure, he had some cool ideas and was a great showman. But the qualities he had that made Apple what it is today, were his borderline personality, his micro managing, his OCD, his ability to badger, berate and belittle, then kiss and make up, and above all, his ability to instill fear into the hearts of his employees, his vendors, his retail partners, everyone who crossed his path. Everyone feared the wrath of Steve.
No one fears the rath of Tim Cook. There is no rath of Tim Cook. Tim Cook is Apple's stepdad.
Vendors don't fear him. That's why the iPhone 5 was so leaky that a fully functioning phone was built from parts leaked by myriad vendors. That's why Goophone patented Apple's own design before they even launched it.
Scott Forstall doesn't fear him. That's why he had either the loudest or the most final say in iOS6. SJ would have shot down the new App Store design in about 3 seconds and Forstall would have run home with his tail between his legs.
Jonny Ive and his design boys are now a loose cannon too. SJ was all about materials. What does Tim Cook know about materials? He knows how much they weigh on a cargo ship. That's about it. Jonny Ive wanted a black metal iPhone. Steve Jobs probably shot it down 50 prototypes ago. But now Jonny gets his way. In the eyes of a nice guy like Tim Cook, Jonny Ive is probably the closest embodiment to what Steve Jobs stood for and the next person after Steve to get the most credit for where Apple is today, so of course he will defer to Jonny's penchant for a black metal phone, especially since he doesn't know anything about materials.
And I've said it many times, Tim Cook's supply-guy tactics of manufacturing far more product than Steve Jobs did is great for short term bottom lines, but bad for the long term status of the cult of desire for Apple products.
Tim Cook made millions of iPad 3s. There were no lines at the stores. No news cameras. No real buzz. Just a **** ton of iPads.
Steve knew that people want what they can't have. He knew how to get people drooling...dangle the iDevice in front of them for a couple of months before releasing worldwide. That may have meant less iDevices sold on launch day, but it also meant a lot more free press and a lot more cult status, which carried over to the next product, and the next.
With Tim driving, the world is blanketed in iProducts all at once. The vendors leak the parts with no repercussions. The lines to buy are smaller. News about bad decisions in the software is louder than the news about the devices themselves. That's ared flag that something is wrong at the top.
It's a poor show from Apple, iOS6 is a big let down for me. I'm getting an iPhone 5 but this is the first time I have seriously considered an android phone. A lot of people have said this, and I agree; Steve would not have let some of these features out the door. I do think they have run out out of ideas, but more worrying is the quality control.
Maps is crazy. In my area it's completely unusable, it's not even beta standard and I'm just shocked that anyone could have made such a mess of it, never mind apple. Passbook is also useless. I'm seeing more bugs than I usually do, especially related to making calls.
Other than Maps though, there was another big shocker for me... Android Play Store is now nicer to use than the App Store. If that's not an indicator of Apples problems to come, I don't know what is
IOS6 does have some nice new features, I really like the reply with messages etc, but I'm falling out of love with Apple a bit. I think the main problem for apple is that while they make great hardware, they don't do services as well. Email, maps, search, Gdrive... The list goes on. All these things Google does far better than Apple. If I need to switch to Android to get the best out of these services it does it bode well for Apple going forward. If there was an Android phone with the design and build quality of an iPhone I would be there already.
Maps is crazy. In my area it's completely unusable, it's not even beta standard and I'm just shocked that anyone could have made such a mess of it, never mind apple. Passbook is also useless. I'm seeing more bugs than I usually do, especially related to making calls.
Other than Maps though, there was another big shocker for me... Android Play Store is now nicer to use than the App Store. If that's not an indicator of Apples problems to come, I don't know what is
IOS6 does have some nice new features, I really like the reply with messages etc, but I'm falling out of love with Apple a bit. I think the main problem for apple is that while they make great hardware, they don't do services as well. Email, maps, search, Gdrive... The list goes on. All these things Google does far better than Apple. If I need to switch to Android to get the best out of these services it does it bode well for Apple going forward. If there was an Android phone with the design and build quality of an iPhone I would be there already.
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Steve told Tim on his deathbed to never ask what I would have done, just do what's right.
No-one seems to have told Tim that they are both the same thing.
No-one seems to have told Tim that they are both the same thing.
What specifically do you mean? All of the phones have different functionality. There's things on the iphone not on Android and vice versa. They all have their good and bad points. Saying what you said makes ios seem inferior.
Great post, mcdj... you've pretty well summed it up.
We should have seen this problem when TC handed out a ****-ton of cash to all the directors when he took over. The guy was running scared... TC doesn't have the knowledge of design and tech that SJ had - and he needed to apply some 'golden handcuffs' to all his top managers to get them to stay around.
He's now been left in a position of real weakness. How do you kick Forstall's ass if your policy up to now has been to give him a load of cash and tell him to do what he likes? How would TC go about finding a replacement?
While the CEO of Apple is more scared of his management team than he is of his customers, we're going to see this complete lack of control. Hopefully the maps issue has been a wake-up call for him.
I totally agree
I absolutely agree with the OP.
Apple has to change, revert back to the great company it once WAS.
Maps, shambolic!
Siri, UK, a year in beta!
iOS, looking stale to Android!
I'd often and proudly tell my family and fiends why i paid more for Apple devices - with glee i'd recall their often heard statement "it just works".
Well guess what - IT DOESN'T
I absolutely agree with the OP.
Apple has to change, revert back to the great company it once WAS.
Maps, shambolic!
Siri, UK, a year in beta!
iOS, looking stale to Android!
I'd often and proudly tell my family and fiends why i paid more for Apple devices - with glee i'd recall their often heard statement "it just works".
Well guess what - IT DOESN'T
What a dumb thread. Lots of mistakes happened after Steve Jobs too, both hardware and software-wise. iOS 4 on the 3G anyone? iPhone 4 antenna?
Oh no the maps app is in early beta oh no Apple is dying Steve jobs rolling over in grave zomg.
What an immature stance.
Oh no the maps app is in early beta oh no Apple is dying Steve jobs rolling over in grave zomg.
What an immature stance.
The reason is that there's an icon on the homescreen that seemingly does nothing. You touch it, it goes to some screen about information and a link to get more apps in the store, just like those spam apps. It doesn't let you browse tickets or buy them from that app. The first contact people have with it is usually that, open it up to see "hey, what's this great new feature" and are left with a sour taste of "Spam Spam Spam!" in their mouth.
In-App purchase is like you say, an eco-system feature. The difference is you don't have an "In-App Purchase" icon on your homescreen that's a big splash screen that says "Hey, click here to find a ton of In-App Purchase enabled apps!".
Also, Passbook should work like Keyring. A background service that stores passes in a standardized format for easy importation. Apps can read their passes and display them to you (instead of fumbling about trying to find the right one once you did manage to load a few and the passbook icon isn't completely useless anymore).
Basically, people don't have an issue with Passbook, they have an issue with how it is presented in the UI on the device. That's the problem. There shouldn't have been an icon.
Then there's the whole missing NFC bit. If Visa/Mastercard can do NFC, no reason Apple can't.
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The maps app wasn't presented as a beta. It was presented as the most powerful mapping solution ever. Apple even changed their marketing material after the backlash :
http://9to5mac.com/2012/09/29/apple...most-beautiful-powerful-mapping-service-ever/
But I mostly agree, this is no different than Steve's Apple, where we had stuff like MobileMe, Ping, the iPhone 4 antenna, the Puck mouse, the G4 Cube, the original MacBook Air in a manilla envelop and so on.
Now that was the mistake. It's very clearly a beta and they definitely should have labeled it as such.
There's no such thing as a flawless first iteration, especially when it comes to mapping solutions. Google Maps did indeed suck at one point too, but of course lets all forget that and whine about Forstall and predict Apple's imminent demise. I think a lot of people in this thread really need to stop setting unrealistically high standards and smarten up.