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iPhone 17 Does Apple install malware to slow your old phone down?
- Thread starter Merkava_4
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RRC
macrumors 68020
Luftkopf
macrumors 65816
So hurling epithets at people who make decisions we don't like is ok now?
You deny chemistry and physics using anecdotal evidence with questionable methodology, then get enraged that the rest of the world doesn't agree with you, and want to force the entire rest of the world to accommodate your way of thinking, have I got that right?
FeliApple
macrumors 601
In this case, to be honest, yes.
I don’t deny anything. Batteries degrade. Period. You want to discuss this, let’s do it.
What is the problem with a degraded battery? That a processor’s required energy isn’t a line. There are spikes when you use demanding apps and functions. A degraded battery cannot provide the required energy, so the device either shuts down, or Apple forcibly throttles the processor to prevent the overwhelming load.
Am I incorrect thus far? I don’t think so, no. Then why do I repeatedly say that battery health is irrelevant if the device isn’t updated?
Point 1: Because… the sheer efficiency of original iOS versions makes it so that even reasonably heavy spikes are withstood by a degraded battery, ESPECIALLY when the device isn’t running at a low level of charge (say, below 20%). And a moderate energy requirement on an extremely efficient iOS version WILL NEVER tax a degraded battery within the reasonable lifespan of an original iOS version.
What happens with iOS updates? Since the OS’s baseline energy requirements skyrocket, now the OS itself taxes the battery too heavily (degraded or not. I saw a 50% runtime loss from iOS 9 to iOS 13 with 94% health). And the device just can’t cope, so battery life plummets (as you know, battery life depends on two factors: battery size and load). The battery size is always the same, load skyrockets, battery life collapses (even with 100% health!)
Point 2: Sure… there is a possibility of say, my iPhone 6s on iOS 10 with 60% health suffering like that if I truly push it, but even minimum efficiency is enough to offset the issue because early iOS versions are too efficient, so, I always run my iOS devices in the same way: with most heavy settings disabled and low brightness, only increasing the brightness when needed. Even so, it seems that original iOS versions are so goddamn efficient that even what I’d call heavy use still isn’t enough. I tested my 6s with 60% health on iOS 10 for a full day of (listen!) high brightness, cellular, camera use outdoors. Battery life? Like-new!!!!!!! That use STILL isn’t demanding enough so as to fail the device from offsetting the degraded battery’s reduced ability to provide the required voltage.
What does this mean? That for 100% of my use cases, I don’t care at all about battery health provided I run original iOS versions.
Point 2.5: does this mean that my iPhone 6s on iOS 10 with 60% health would be able to offset EVERYTHING? NO! Download a heavy game like… Infinity Blade for example. Use it on cellular with most settings enabled with full brightness and the device would probably shut down because it just cannot provide the required energy. An updated iPhone 6s with 100% health might even fare better than my degraded iPhone on iOS 10.
Now… do I care about that use case? Not at all because I don’t do that with my phone, quaternary like the 6s or primary like my 16 Plus.
So: what I’m basically saying is that chemistry matters but the threshold is so high for original iOS versions that it ends up not mattering at all. You may be a ridiculously heavy user who would be affected. Fine. Still doesn’t invalidate the point: unless you demand an absurd amount of energy from the device, for all intents and purposes and considering the current lifespan of iOS versions:
Battery health is irrelevant if you don’t update iOS.
Right! This might be the most unneeded thread in history.
There a distinct difference between 'optimizing a device for new hardware specs' and 'installing malware' to slow down older devices.
IF this were true, everyone designing software would see the 'malware' and (hopefully) call it out.
maybe whats more interesting than the clickbait is that the OP is AWOL and not a part of any of this discourse after post#1. ("lets throw firecrackers in to the stable and see what happens")
Last edited:
I7guy
macrumors Westmere
I still roll my eyes. I know problems exist and problems existed on iOS versions since iPhone 4, since I became interested in iPhones. There are very few versions I would actually give a thumbs down to but iOS 26 isn’t one if them. It’s pretty good on our iPads and iPhones.
Apple will almost never allow downgrading. Those who want to, can postpone upgrading for ever at a cost of functionality, security and usability.
when the battery get old Apple needs to slow the phone down otherwise it won't work.
Luftkopf
macrumors 65816
Yep, I'm with you here.
I mean, kinda, to a degree? Sure, a fully updated install of the launch version on an older iPhone will plausibly be easier on a battery than the latest revision. I don't buy a 50% runtime loss though. I'm not saying you didn't see that, I am saying that is not a universal truth, and is likely an outlier. I would expect the actual difference to be much smaller. If an analysis were done on a thousand old iPhones, I would expect the overall difference to actually be fairly small.
So an old battery doesn't perform like a new one, but you're happy with the compromises required to keep old ones optimised. I actually admire that!
I dont't buy the notion that an 11 year old phone will have unchanged battery life if you never update it. Physics and chemistry are real. I find it akin to the fuel-saver devices you plug in to your car's cigarette lighter, or the mythical "100mpg carburettors" I used to read about. You can't ignore chemistry. You can make compromises to maximise a battery's useful life, but an old battery is an old battery.
Please don't misunderstand me, I'm not trying to be insulting with these comparisons, they just illustrate my point.
I'm super happy with iOS 26.5 on my iPhone 14.
FeliApple
macrumors 601
But people repeatedly mention that battery life plummets on older devices and there’s nothing that can be done. And also… an objective analysis done how?
Batteries cannot withstand anywhere near the maximum load of a device. I’m going to deviate to Bluetooth speakers, as I said earlier. My brand new speaker: rated for 24 hours of battery life at 44% volume, and 5 hours at full volume. I matched those numbers upon testing (and got 40 hours at 30% volume). The same thing happens with iOS devices: batteries cannot withstand a full load because it is too taxing. That’s why I dismissed previous messages saying I should run geekbench on both. Geekbench will obliterate the battery on both, and in that case, sure, they’ll be rather close, or the one on iOS 10 may not be able to withstand it.
Taxing the battery as hard as the device goes kills everything, so that use case is irrelevant in my opinion. How can you assess software impact if you just overpower the battery itself? You can’t assess efficiency if you’re doing the equivalent of hitting the battery with a heavy mallet. And that was my problem: I’m somebody who can optimise iOS devices enough - and has a light enough usage pattern - to get very long runtimes. With the updated 6s, I was failing. There was no light usage pattern that helped, it was just awful. With fairly low brightness (say, 30%) and cellular, and light apps like web browsing, I was getting 2.5 hours to 30%. With Wi-Fi numbers were slightly better, but still awful.
But there are no compromises! With everything but the heaviest usage patterns (and this is an assumption, as I haven’t tested gaming that heavily), the device is unaffected. Like I said, high brightness, outdoors, camera use, cellular. That’s a heavy usage pattern. Battery life was unaffected. What more can I need?
I assume there is indeed a limit. All I’m saying is that with original iOS versions, I haven’t found it yet. And it is arguably irrelevant for the context of this discussion.
Keep in mind that we are talking about an iPhone that is pretty much not used as a main device anymore (or as secondary either). You just need enough battery life to get you through a certain amount of years in which you use a specific iPhone as your phone, and that’s it. Then it doesn’t matter anymore. I can use the 6s on iOS 13 even with its poor battery life to play music and in that context battery life is good enough. It needs a recharge far faster than any other device I have when used for that purpose, but it doesn’t matter as much.
I have a seven-year-old iPhone Xʀ on iOS 12 with 89% health that I use for music. I will need a quintillion years to see any health-related impact because I don’t push it at all and I don’t even cycle it that much. But it’s only as good because it runs iOS 12.
I even have a 76% health iPhone 8 with 2300 cycles that I also use for music, and it’s fine, still like-new, but the point is, with an original iOS version, I render battery longevity irrelevant because the battery outlasts the original version’s compatibility. Why do you think I’m so harsh towards developers? Because the bottleneck for longevity aren’t batteries (which I could even replace if they were), but developers removing compatibility.
2300 cycles and it’s fine! (With 76% health). How much more do you need? In fact, I argue that the only reason why people replace batteries is because they are updated, and you get into the endless game of “if an iPhone with 100% health can barely withstand the load, one with 80% collapses, so battery health is relevant”. Yeah, sure, whatever, but whose fault is that? The battery or the iOS version? Funnily enough… I saw somebody who was still using an iPhone 6s. They had gone through SEVEN battery replacements. Are you kidding me? I’ve done zero and I’m fine. What you mean seven? I obviously fault iOS 15, which I know for a fact that it’s just too taxing. Even after battery replacements people report that it’s still garbage. A bit more stable because it can somewhat withstand iOS 15’s awful load, but battery life itself is garbage.
My argument is that the compromises you mention are almost theoretical. If, to see an impact on an original iOS version with a degraded battery that’s 20 years old and has 4000 cycles, you need to play Infinity Blade at full brightness… well, then that’s not much of a compromise then, is it? The device’s usability is long gone. And more importantly, the device’s relevance is also gone.
My iPhone 13 Pro is slower on iOS 26.5 than it has been on earlier versions, but not so that the phone is unusable. In fact I’m surprised it’s not a lot slower than it actually is. That said I didn’t install iOS 26 until 26.4 as it seems earlier versions were so full of bugs. Plus I wouldn’t expect it to be as fast. Mind you I’m also using a relatively new battery at nine months old.
Parowdy
Suspended
I definitely haven’t, because it’s brought up all the damn time.
Battery gate wasn’t malware, they had honest reasons for their actions but the part where they didn’t tell anyone is what got them caught up in the fuzz.
The same kind of feature is (I believe) still retroactively installed on iPhone one year after launch because the software was never the problem.
Parowdy
Suspended
Incredibly reasonable indeed.
It’s very telling that these rumors basically only ever are about Apple and never have any actual proof behind them. Not ten years ago and not now.
And if it’s so reasonable, do others do it and why not?
What details would those be you’re talking about?
dangegland
macrumors newbie
Yea I don’t believe this, but it still doesn’t make it easy when your battery degrades by quite a high degree after only having the phone a couple of years and not using it for things like gaming or excessive usage.
It’s also not fair to focus the argument on new software if in reality one is not using any of the cutting edge features added by the software (what are they by the way?)
Some transparency of estimated battery degradation after iOS upgrade would be nice so a user could make a decision on whether it’s worth it, if that’s what people are putting it down to (by hook or by crook).
I can’t compare this to another phone, but I’m going to give it a try this week. The “upgrade” option isn’t the only one out there. Why not try something new.
It’s also not fair to focus the argument on new software if in reality one is not using any of the cutting edge features added by the software (what are they by the way?)
Some transparency of estimated battery degradation after iOS upgrade would be nice so a user could make a decision on whether it’s worth it, if that’s what people are putting it down to (by hook or by crook).
I can’t compare this to another phone, but I’m going to give it a try this week. The “upgrade” option isn’t the only one out there. Why not try something new.
FeliApple
macrumors 601
Apple’s goal is for everyone to use the latest version. I think this is malicious but it’s up for debate. Apple’s own support document lies and says that updating is recommended for battery life. See “maximizing battery and lifespan”, the first tip: https://www.apple.com/batteries/maximizing-performance/
That article is malicious. Apple has no intention of ever acknowledging that iOS updates are malware that irreversibly impacts battery life.
People update because of compatibility (that’s why I’m so harsh towards developers), and mostly also because there’s a LOT of fearmongering about security.
Apple has no intention of EVER changing this with that level of transparency, people update anyway so they’re happy with this staying as-is.
It’s exactly what I say. Try staying behind and see how your iPhone will always have like-new battery life.
Paul1964
macrumors 6502
FeliApple
macrumors 601
Even if you disagree with my “malware” characterization, that iOS updates impact battery life irreversibly is utterly undeniable.
Sad to see people upgrading or complaining about battery life on, say, a 13 Mini just because iOS 26 killed it.
I will always say it. Recommending people to update as a way to “maximize battery lifespan” is utterly and undeniably malicious.
Luftkopf
macrumors 65816
I dispute your notion, but neither of us have proof, just anecdotal evidence. You will forever hate iOS updates with a violent passion, and I will keep thinking holding off updates without good reason is silly, and 10 minutes of battery life isn’t it.
Apple got caught slowing down the clock speeds on phone to "improve battery life" without the users consent years ago. Its not malware, its just apple slowing down the clock speed. Apple admitted to this awhile ago.
They got caught when some group jailborken an iphone and found out the clock speed was sloer wafter a major ios update.
Here are some news articles that I am using as sources to my claim:
Apple pays out over claims it deliberately slowed down iPhones
The tech giant is compensating US customers and faces similar allegations in the UK.
www.bbc.com
Apple Getting Sued For Slowing Down Phones — The Scandal That Shook Silicon Valley - Kbsd6
Apple Getting Sued For Slowing Down Phones — The Scandal That Shook Silicon Valley Apple's admission that it purposefully slowed down older iPhone models triggered a reaction that money couldn't fix. Once praised for its impeccable
kbsd6.com
Apple Faces Legal Consequences for Deliberate Phone Slowdowns - Apple authority
In a significant blow to its reputation, Apple recently lost a legal battle over intentionally slowing down older iPhone models to prompt customers to upgrade to newer versions. The court ruling has resulted in a hefty $500 million fine, with individual customers entitled to receive $90 in...
appleauthority.org
Apple agrees to pay up to $500 million in settlement over slowed-down iPhones: What to know
Apple has agreed to pay a minimum of $310 million and up to $500 million in compensation for slowing down old iPhones, depending on the claims filed.
www.usatoday.com
Apple iPhone Users Finally Receiving Settlement Money From 2018 Battery Slowdown Lawsuit
Apple customers eligible for payouts from the tech giant’s settlement of a 2018 class action lawsuit have started receiving their money, according to an attorney for the plaintiffs and social media posts from recipients. The distributions are expected to conclude by late January. Apple is paying
www.forbes.com
If your not to lazy, you could just use a serch engine to find out this info.
"https://duckduckgo.com/?q=Apple+slows+down+clock+speeds+lawsuit&atb=v318-1&ia=web"
FeliApple
macrumors 601
Do you really think that if my experience was that iOS updates took 10 minutes of battery life away from me an otherwise maintained performance I’d do this? My devices’ full lifespan is shortened significantly because app developers are pathetic garbage.
The impact is FAR higher than that, in the order of 50-60% or more when Apple inevitably pushes too hard.
You might upgrade too quickly and sell off your older devices to see that, but it happens.
The reason is performance and battery life. Since I keep devices long-term as secondary devices for as long as possible, I want them to work the best they can.
But like I said, the impact is far more than what you are stating. The fact that you even state that leads me to assume that you upgrade frequently. But I might be wrong…
Like I said, it’s not 10 minutes. My 6s went from 8 hours on iOS 9 to barely scraping 4 on iOS 13 (not on iOS 15, with reports stating 2.5 hours). Degraded batteries further worsen this (whilst they don’t on original iOS versions).
Do you think I’d go through all this trouble if the difference were really negligible? Do you think I’m the only one who stays behind? The answer to both is no.
Luftkopf
macrumors 65816
You think the impact is bigger than I state, and I don’t believe it is anywhere near as big as you state. Neither of us can prove our positions. We only have anecdotal data. We have no proof.
Upgrade too quickly and sell off my devices? 😂 I still have my iPhone 5, and my 8 Plus, both of which I still use. I went from the 8 Plus to my current iPhone 14. The 5 had a replacement battery, so it is pretty good. The 8 Plus has been getting pretty bad lately, which has nothing to do with updates, it just has a really old battery.
FeliApple
macrumors 601
Surprising that you don’t upgrade too quickly to be honest. Most people that deny it do.
The iPhone 5 wasn’t affected because battery life with 32-bit devices was pretty much unaffected (see early iPads maintain battery life even though they’re updated and they’re like 14 years old).
The iPhone 8 series was surprisingly resilient, mine runs iOS 14 and has like-new battery life (versus my 9.7-inch iPad Pro, also forcibly updated by Apple to iOS 12. Battery life collapsed immediately by 30%).
Now, reports of iOS 16 were poor, so I have severe doubts that your iPhone 8 Plus gets iOS 11 or iOS 12-like battery life on iOS 16, even with a new battery. I don’t know how much lower it is because mine isn’t as updated, but I’m absolutely sure that you cannot get the 11-12 hours of light SOT I know that Plus models on original versions get. In fact, I distinctly recall being interested in this and asking a few people. All more or less stated that with replacement batteries they hovered around the regular iPhone 8’s battery life when not updated, about 7-8 hours with the same use, at best.
A degraded battery on an updated device worsens the issue. As you experienced, your 8 Plus with an original battery is probably pretty poor. Even if you replace it, you may get 7-8 hours. That’s not good. That’s 33-40% below iOS 11-12.
Still, replacing the battery is NOT a solution. If, in order to get a half-decent battery life, you have to replace a battery every 5 minutes, that’s not a solution. I’ve read people that said that they replaced 8, 9 batteries on a 6s. Why? Because battery life collapsed when health dropped a little, because the device just CANNOT take it.
My battery life remains like-new with years of degradation because the OS doesn’t require too much.
My point is exactly that one: since this happens and Apple disallows downgrading, Apple ships irreversible malware. Users are at fault for updating.