iPhone 12 Pro Does ’s new on device CSAM policy affect your decision to upgrade?

[GrumpyCoder]

I only hope this generalizes to the general public at least to some degree

To some degree, sure. I wouldn't expect too much, because Apple is a niche. They have less than 30% of the global mobile market (tablet and phones) and less than 10% of the desktop/laptop market.

Within these we have to look at how many people are affected. This whole thing is a "go" in the US only so far, so that's where people will react first. I'd expect people in other countries to much more critical about it, as they're used to much tighter privacy laws. In fact, most companies in Europe will not host any type of data in the US, but only in the EU and often within the same country. The larger outcry will probably come when Apple decides to use this in other countries and that's when it get's interesting.

 

[09872738]

I am aware of all of this. I just did not expect surveillancegate to have any impact because I assumed most people don‘t care - just consider how many flock to Facebook and its subsidiaries, TikTok et al.

Now there is at least some tiny bit of hope.

In an ideal world they would see sales plummet, really really plummet

 

[GrumpyCoder]

I think the difference is we know Facebook, Twitter, etc. are doing it. They're known for it, it's their business model. It's just accepted. I did not expect it from Apple and even if they did it, I would have expected them to do it in-cloud for non E2EE data.

The tiny bit of hope is there. But I also think many people expressing their concern have a technical background and might not have a problem running Linux as an alternative. I'd like to see more Joe Sixpacks care about privacy.

 

[09872738]

Full ACK. Well said, nothing to add

 

[schneeland]

W.r.t. to the OP's question: yes, it has impacted my decision. No iPhone 13/12S for me, no new iPad mini (man, I really wanted that one!) and also no M1X/M2 Macbook. I will stay with my current device and iOS 14 as long as possible, but unless Apple changes their mind and cancels their plans for on-device scans, this is only an interim solution.
I can only hope that Samsung is good enough at copying the current iPad Pros that the transition will not be too painful... And that's assuming that the Android ecosystem doesn't follow Apple's lead and simply adopts the same measures.

Sharing a sentiment uttered by others: I think, despite working in IT, I lost my enthusiasm for technology, I mostly want nice devices that work well. There is a disturbing tendency of both big tech and governments around the globe to invade more and more of my private space, but until a few days ago, it seems that paying the Apple tax was a way to evade this without the need to dedicate significant time to my devices. Guess that's no longer the case.

 

[swarlos]

W.r.t. to the OP's question: yes, it has impacted my decision. No iPhone 13/12S for me, no new iPad mini (man, I really wanted that one!) and also no M1X/M2 Macbook. I will stay with my current device and iOS 14 as long as possible, but unless Apple changes their mind and cancels their plans for on-device scans, this is only an interim solution.
I can only hope that Samsung is good enough at copying the current iPad Pros that the transition will not be too painful... And that's assuming that the Android ecosystem doesn't follow Apple's lead and simply adopts the same measures.

Sharing a sentiment uttered by others: I think, despite working in IT, I lost my enthusiasm for technology, I mostly want nice devices that work well. There is a disturbing tendency of both big tech and governments around the globe to invade more and more of my private space, but until a few days ago, it seems that paying the Apple tax was a way to evade this without the need to dedicate significant time to my devices. Guess that's no longer the case.

Yeah tech is getting more and more convoluted.

I hate Android tablets, nothing can even come close to the iPad.

It sucks because for me there’s honestly nothing on the Android side that comes close to what  offers, especially smartwatch wise.

 

[Pummers]

haven’t read everything yet, but.. i’m surprised nobody mentioned the patriot act. 🤷‍♂️

The Patriot Act was over 300 pages and introduced seemingly overnight after Sept 11. Don't want to be 'that guy' but somehow a 300 page legal document was written and passed without so much as a peep. Because terrorists.

I remember watching Enemy of the State in 1998, and thinking how far fetched/ridiculous it all was. Impossible because we all had sorts of civil protections, rights and freedoms.

Then some idiot flew a couple of planes into some buildings and everyone willingly tossed their rights into the garbage because we had terrorism to fend off.

Is the fear of CSAM that much different?

Now I am Brill. 🤦‍♂️

 

[remington79]

Well I just made sure to turn off automatic updates.

 

[ApplePersonFreak]

No. iMessage is still encrypted and I don’t use iCloud photos and we are all being tracked on every social media app we have on our phone anyways, always tracking location, etc.

 

[remington79]

I don’t use social media apps and don’t use Facebook or Twitter. The only Google product I use is YouTube.

 

[hagjohn]

I have a 12 Pro Max, so I won't be upgrading for while anyway but if Apple is scanning their iCloud servers, then why do they need to scan my device? Seems to me, if they were really into protecting kids, they would scan your device no matter if iCloud photo was active or not.

 

[Barbareren]

Sharing a sentiment uttered by others: I think, despite working in IT, I lost my enthusiasm for technology, I mostly want nice devices that work well.

Same here. I think, for me at least, it might be an age/experience-thing… or just new priorities… 🤷‍♂️

 

[MikeAK]

Same here. I think, for me at least, it might be an age/experience-thing… or just new priorities… 🤷‍♂️

Agreed. Age and priorities are the main factors for me.

 

[MadeTheSwitch]

Absolutely it affects my decision. While the goal of protecting kids is very noble, Apple playing nanny creeps me out as I feel it is a slippery slope. One that people must push back on as much as possible. Let it hurt their sales. I think it’s probably the only real thing they will listen to.

 

[5H3PH3RD]

Absolutely it affects my decision. While the goal of protecting kids is very noble, Apple playing nanny creeps me out as I feel it is a slippery slope. One that people must push back on as much as possible. Let it hurt their sales. I think it’s probably the only real thing they will listen to.

Google and Apple have been scanning for CSAM on their online services for years....

 

[singularity0993]

Why do people keep saying that Android provides worse privacy options? AFAIK AOSP Android, which is open-source and you can compile yourself, provides far better OS transparency. And in addition to that, Android has copied all of iOS's new privacy features. So what's wrong with Android?

Don't tell me Apple has App Tracking Transparency. That feature is merely a renamed switch. On previous versions of iOS and Android it's called "Limit Ad Tracking". (Read Apple's documentation, they said it)

And in case Android implements a feature you don't like, you can just fork the source code and delete the feature yourself. If you don't know how to do that, there are plenty of custom ROMs that will do this for you.

 

[Spetsgruppa]

i honestly dont mind Apple scanning my photos for child abuse and stuff but the internet in Indonesia is already slow enough and with this new policy im pretty sure its gonna make the internet even slower.

 

[adib]

I never thought I'd see the day where someone actually thought moving over to Google would be a step towards better privacy...but here we are 🤣 Zuck should roll out some Facebook phones, he'd have a few adopters I'm sure.

GrapheneOS?

 

[adib]

i honestly dont mind Apple scanning my photos for child abuse and stuff but the internet in Indonesia is already slow enough and with this new policy im pretty sure its gonna make the internet even slower.

No, this policy won't make the Internet slower. Unless you have the target images in possession, hence your Internet connection will be used to upload the un-encrypted version of those images to Apple.

 

[baypharm]

Google and Apple have been scanning for CSAM on their online services for years....

And how has that stopped sex trafficking? It hasn’t. Human trafficking is alive and well. Apple‘s foray into it is not about eliminating this industry, it is rather about control over the most private areas of our lives. Deeply invasive control over the very device they claim is private and secure. When IOS 15 hits, you can kiss security and privacy goodbye. Apple has always promoted their products to be secure and private. There is a much greater web of deception being weaved here.

 

[zakarhino]

The more convenience I want, the more of my personal privacy I have to give up.

Remember that this is not a law of nature, it's not even a legitimate trade off. There is literally nothing stopping anyone, in particular Apple, from creating incredibly convenient, connected experiences that don't sacrifice a single ounce of privacy -- they just choose not to do it.

 

[zakarhino]

I’ll upgrade because I have a lot of money.

based

 

[zakarhino]

Why do people keep saying that Android provides worse privacy options? AFAIK AOSP Android, which is open-source and you can compile yourself, provides far better OS transparency. And in addition to that, Android has copied all of iOS's new privacy features. So what's wrong with Android?

Don't tell me Apple has App Tracking Transparency. That feature is merely a renamed switch. On previous versions of iOS and Android it's called "Limit Ad Tracking". (Read Apple's documentation, they said it)

And in case Android implements a feature you don't like, you can just fork the source code and delete the feature yourself. If you don't know how to do that, there are plenty of custom ROMs that will do this for you.

Yeah in the grand scheme of private smartphones I think the order goes:

Custom de-googled android -> iPhone -> generic google infested android

I'm thinking of switching to custom android because it can legitimately be configured to be more private than iOS

 

[Spetsgruppa]

No, this policy won't make the Internet slower. Unless you have the target images in possession, hence your Internet connection will be used to upload the un-encrypted version of those images to Apple.

ah so its built into the system?nice.then i dont mind.but thats just me.

 

[Geepaw]

It's been the case for years that once you send materials to a third-party server you know longer fully control it. You can hope for the best but there will always be an element of risk involved. If you are into illicit kitty porn and store photos on a third-party server then you deserve what you get. Otherwise, for those concerned with privacy, be aware of the risks or otherwise store your materials on a local drive -- it's the old fashion way.