Does the embargo lift at midnight tonight? Anyone staying up late in hopes of early goodness?

[Pilot Jones]

Petty? You saying Max Tech's videos are bad and telling us there are better videos... I think we all would like to seem them then.

First video (iOS dev). That's the most basic info that you could glean from a Verge review. M1 is good, M2 is only slightly better M1 Pro is significantly better. No actual testing and comparisons involved.

Second video. That guy is literally doing the same tests that Max Tech does. Have you actually seen a Max Tech video?

Third video (gaming). Finally something that is more in depth than what Max Tech has done.

Fourth video. Music production. Again, what basic information. Are you trolling? You're saying that was more detailed than a Max Tech video? Only brings up some random VST is not natively run. What else in there is not common sense if you're the average macrumours reader?

Fifth video. Christ, have you not watched the Max Tech videos. It's the same stuff. Yes Luke does Davinci Resolve tests that Max doesn't do, but Max Tech did a Lightroom test that Luke didn't do. All the other bench mark are literally the same.

I'm quite stumped. What information was in those above 5 videos, apart from the gaming video, that is not apparent in one of Max Tech's videos. All of the "industry professional" videos provided no real life testing and it just seemed like they were inferring from benchmarks and spec sheets.

Have you actually seen the Max Tech vids, or do you just have something personal against him lol.

I called you petty because I replied to your initial message with a genuine way that you could find videos for yourself, but you had to be snarky in return asking for an incredibly specific example comparing two of the least popular products in apple's line-up.

If you actually made the effort to look there are even more reviews that don't fit into your neat little criteria. Architects, coders, video editors, music producers all talking about the M2 macbook pro, M1 Macbook Pro & Air in solely real-world terms. And don't ask me to post any more videos for you. Use the damn search bar yourself.

I have seen a ton of max tech videos and was a big supporter in the past which is why I, along with many other noticed the steep decline in their channel's quality and the unashamed pendulum-like swinging they do between shilling for apple and calling it the worst thing ever only to rile up the views.

They literally had to release a video recently addressing the "drama" surrounding their videos about the claims they made in their M2 MacBook Pro videos. If you make good content that is honest and sincere, you should never ever need to do that.

I do not have anything personal against them, but I do not respect them or their content as a consumer. Same goes for anyone else who puts engagement over content. iJustine, Rene Ritchie, etc. They're all cut from the same garbage YouTuber mould.

Either way, I'm not spending another brain cell over this. Don't bother quoting me again cause I couldn't be ****ed to type up another response 👍

 

[GalileoSeven]

I agree. But at the same time, the content creators are going to do to anything to get clicks, which is more often than not, highlight some silly issue & blow it out of proportion. So it's up to the consumer to understand that & take these videos with a grain of salt. This is why I always get a laugh when people hold these content creators in such high regard. The majority are nothing more than regular consumers with a video camera.

Sadly, it basically plays into the main stereotype of Apple users, where many almost consider Apple products as a form of jewelry/status symbols, or something to be flaunted/shown off, instead of basing their purchases on the actual functionality, & obviously the fingerprints won't match their desired aesthetic.

The prime reason I read and don't watch product reviews. (Am a bit OCD about fingerprints & such, so that's my own thing there).

 

[m1maverick]

I think it is really juvenile for several of the reviewers to fixate on fingerprints. The review is supposed to be about performance not acting like a computer is a work of art not to be touched.

Oh, I disagree. There are Apple buyers who consider form over function when making their purchasing decision. An example is all the praise the M2 MBA is receiving over the M1 MBA. Or bezels...oh my how much has been written said about thin bezels

 

[m1maverick]

Petty? You saying Max Tech's videos are bad and telling us there are better videos... I think we all would like to seem them then.

First video (iOS dev). That's the most basic info that you could glean from a Verge review. M1 is good, M2 is only slightly better M1 Pro is significantly better. No actual testing and comparisons involved.

Second video. That guy is literally doing the same tests that Max Tech does. Have you actually seen a Max Tech video?

Third video (gaming). Finally something that is more in depth than what Max Tech has done.

Fourth video. Music production. Again, what basic information. Are you trolling? You're saying that was more detailed than a Max Tech video? Only brings up some random VST is not natively run. What else in there is not common sense if you're the average macrumours reader?

Fifth video. Christ, have you not watched the Max Tech videos. It's the same stuff. Yes Luke does Davinci Resolve tests that Max doesn't do, but Max Tech did a Lightroom test that Luke didn't do. All the other bench mark are literally the same.

I'm quite stumped. What information was in those above 5 videos, apart from the gaming video, that is not apparent in one of Max Tech's videos. All of the "industry professional" videos provided no real life testing and it just seemed like they were inferring from benchmarks and spec sheets.

What a joke. Have you actually seen the Max Tech vids, or do you just have something personal against him?

For some reason there appears to be, IMO, an unhealthy dislike of Max Tech on this site.

 

[Asiatic Black Hebrew]

it looks nice but I think its confirmed what I suspected: my base M1 Air is still perfectly fine and then some

The fact that you even needed confirmation of this is quite extraordinary. A 1 1/2 year old laptop is not going to become obsolete overnight, solely because of a new model being introduced.

 

[Apple_Robert]

Oh, I disagree. There are Apple buyers who consider form over function when making their purchasing decision. An example is all the praise the M2 MBA is receiving over the M1 MBA. Or bezels...oh my how much has been written said about thin bezels

That is true. Maybe I am the oddball focused on performance/ dollar.

 

[thadoggfather]

The fact that you even needed confirmation of this is quite extraordinary. A 1 1/2 year old laptop is not going to become obsolete overnight, solely because of a new model being introduced.

'Needing' confirmation is your opinion of how I have evaluated things. I wasn't in the market in the first place.
Even if it was a quantum leap, M1 Air is still stellar.

Also I upgraded early 2020 i5 Air to late 2020 M1 Air and it was a huge difference, to the point where early 2020 was obsolete in my view (fan kicking up, thermals, performance, and battery life)

 

[DavidChoux]

I called you petty because I replied to your initial message with a genuine way that you could find videos for yourself, but you had to be snarky in return asking for an incredibly specific example comparing two of the least popular products in apple's line-up.

If you actually made the effort to look there are even more reviews that don't fit into your neat little criteria. Architects, coders, video editors, music producers all talking about the M2 macbook pro, M1 Macbook Pro & Air in solely real-world terms. And don't ask me to post any more videos for you. Use the damn search bar yourself.

I have seen a ton of max tech videos and was a big supporter in the past which is why I, along with many other noticed the steep decline in their channel's quality and the unashamed pendulum-like swinging they do between shilling for apple and calling it the worst thing ever only to rile up the views.

They literally had to release a video recently addressing the "drama" surrounding their videos about the claims they made in their M2 MacBook Pro videos. If you make good content that is honest and sincere, you should never ever need to do that.

I do not have anything personal against them, but I do not respect them or their content as a consumer. Same goes for anyone else who puts engagement over content. iJustine, Rene Ritchie, etc. They're all cut from the same garbage YouTuber mould.

Either way, I'm not spending another brain cell over this. Don't bother quoting me again cause I couldn't be ****ed to type up another response 👍

Haha, you literally claimed there are better more comprehensive videos than Max Tech, showed me some, none of them offered anything more that what Max Tech has shown apart from that real life gaming test, and now you're just saying that those "professional industry" videos are somewhere else. Well I can't find them, and you can't be bothered so I'm calling BS on your original claim that there are better videos than Max Tech out there.

Yes that recent drama vid was a bit over the top, but that doesn't take away from the excellent comparison videos they've been doing recently. Yes their comments can be over the top too, but they test stuff and show you the results. That's the most important thing. As any normal person would do, just ignore the rest of their pendulum swinging support/hate for Apple or whatever you said.

Don't need a reply from you thanks. You've clearly shown your opinions hold no water.

 

[DavidChoux]

Bingo. You would think that this would be common knowledge at this point. A lot of people seem to watch these "review" aka opinion videos, expecting there to be things wrong or worth complaining about, almost to the point that it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. Any overwhelmingly positive videos are instantly labeled as nothing more than "paid advertisements", while anything negative is almost always taken at face value & magnified to infinity, no matter how arbitrary & insignificant these issues are.

There was an entire thread of people who were ready to cancel their pre-order because of a short YouTube clip showing a few fingerprints on the outside of Midnight lid. I couldn't imagine a world where I would consider something like this important, but it was a doomsday scenario for many. The same is the case with this SSD "issue" as well. Now the laptop is nothing more than "slow" or "crappy" because of a meaningless test, which hardly represents actual usage for the target demographic, done by a content creator who seems to suffer from an extreme case of Dunning–Kruger.

And for all those people who said no because of finger prints, how many acknowledged it and then still went on to purchase it? You don't know.

No one said the single NAND implementation is outright slow. It's just slower than last year. You're just saying that to fit your own narrative.

The point is that last years cheaper M1 is significantly, more than significantly, faster in some hard tasks than the new laptop with the faster M2. That really shouldn't be the case and understandably that would discourage certain people from buying it.

Of course the average consumer isn't going to know about the single NAND thing, and as you say you they probably wouldn't care. For them, I doubt even watching those videos about the slower 256GB implementation would put them off buying it. But, on the other hand, there are some people who are interested in this stuff and understandably are put off.

Again no one has deemed the laptop as "slow" or "crappy". You making crap up to fit your narrative.

 

[Sheepish-Lord]

I still find it amusing people spec up models like the MBA. People are scaring themselves into getting 512gb to save a few seconds on something they rarely do, then probably adding 16gb for “future proofing” which nobody shuts up about and you’re only a couple $$$ from a discounted or refurbished MBP 14” that miles better.

 

[Asiatic Black Hebrew]

And for all those people who said no because of finger prints, how many acknowledged it and then still went on to purchase it? You don't know.

Correct. Your point?

No one said the single NAND implementation is outright slow. It's just slower than last year. You're just saying that to fit your own narrative.

You're speaking in absolutes, about something you clearly know nothing about. I suggest you use the search function & look at comments from other threads on this very site on the topic. Google is also an option. Give reddit a try as well if you'd like. To simply say you're wrong, would be an understatement.

The point is that last years cheaper M1 is significantly, more than significantly, faster in some hard tasks than the new laptop with the faster M2. That really shouldn't be the case and understandably that would discourage certain people from buying it.

Of course the average consumer isn't going to know about the single NAND thing, and as you say you they probably wouldn't care. For them, I doubt even watching those videos about the slower 256GB implementation would put them off buying it. But, on the other hand, there are some people who are interested in this stuff and understandably are put off.

I'm not sure if it's because of flat out laziness on your part or an unwillingness to accept reality, but there have been quite a few comments made on this site, YouTube, reddit, other forums, etc, that have shown people take these negative reviews/press seriously, whether they actually understand the data being presented or not. For many, who look up to these content creators, for reasons I'll never understand, all they seem to take away is that "X creator" says the laptop is apparently slower than last years, therefore it's bad. Many people don't even completely understand the nuance involved with that statement. More involved users, who probably don't rely on YouTube reviews to make their purchasing decisions, won't be affected & they probably weren't considering the base model anyway. However, there are quite a few people who will be, which is apparent from the comments I've personally read on numerous sites, which you refuse to acknowledge, & the view counts/comments on these review videos, within a few hours of being posted.

I'm not making excuses for Apple here. But the point is, there are users who certainly would not have noticed a difference in speed for what they need the laptop to do, yet they're being scared away from the model. Whatever you take away from that, is completely up to you, but don't kill the messenger.

Again no one has deemed the laptop as "slow" or "crappy". You making crap up to fit your narrative.

Again, you're speaking in absolutes. And again, the search function is free. Here's a comment from a few pages ago in this very thread.

He is the only one that actaully tests those machines comprehensively. Really looking to his reviews. Because of his fidnings on how crappy the 256GB MBP M2 model is and the thermals, I am actually rethinking MBA M2. Knowing Apple, we have a 9 out of 10 chance that MBA M2 will suffer with the same crappy storage and thermal throttling might be even more serious since there is no fan.

 

[Wizec]

I called you petty because I replied to your initial message with a genuine way that you could find videos for yourself, but you had to be snarky in return asking for an incredibly specific example comparing two of the least popular products in apple's line-up.

If you actually made the effort to look there are even more reviews that don't fit into your neat little criteria. Architects, coders, video editors, music producers all talking about the M2 macbook pro, M1 Macbook Pro & Air in solely real-world terms. And don't ask me to post any more videos for you. Use the damn search bar yourself.

I have seen a ton of max tech videos and was a big supporter in the past which is why I, along with many other noticed the steep decline in their channel's quality and the unashamed pendulum-like swinging they do between shilling for apple and calling it the worst thing ever only to rile up the views.

They literally had to release a video recently addressing the "drama" surrounding their videos about the claims they made in their M2 MacBook Pro videos. If you make good content that is honest and sincere, you should never ever need to do that.

I do not have anything personal against them, but I do not respect them or their content as a consumer. Same goes for anyone else who puts engagement over content. iJustine, Rene Ritchie, etc. They're all cut from the same garbage YouTuber mould.

Either way, I'm not spending another brain cell over this. Don't bother quoting me again cause I couldn't be ****ed to type up another response 👍

Huge wall of text but nothing substantive.

I’ve watched the videos and Max Tech isn’t blowing anything out of proportion. As a software engineer, I welcome all the tests they have done, real world and stress testing. They exposed a genuine concern that Apple themselves have now had to respond to, and the official response is nothing if not disingenuous. Multiple people have shown the tests that the _base_ M2 models are literally slower than their predecessors once you push them moderately.

 

[m1maverick]

I'm not making excuses for Apple here. But the point is, there are users who certainly would not have noticed a difference in speed for what they need the laptop to do, yet they're being scared away from the model. Whatever you take away from that, is completely up to you, but don't kill the messenger.

I've maintained a similar position regarding SATA versus NVMe types of drives. IMO the difference between the two isn't noticeable to many people. The benefit of SSD (SATA or NVMe) is not so much the sequential speed improvement but rather the random speed improvement.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for progress and, all else being equal, I would choose NVMe over a SATA SSD everytime.

 

[MICHAELSD]

If you already feel that the MacBook Pro is the best option for you, why would a YouTube review (opinion) change that?

It’s not the YouTube reviews in itself, but knowing more information about the MacBook Air including how it compares to the 14” MacBook Pro.

I’m particularly looking forward to Notebookcheck’s review.

 

[MICHAELSD]

13” MacBook Pro? If so, cancel that and a MBA. That machine should literally not exist it’s that awful.

14”.

It’s a closer comparison than expected with the M1 Pro.

 

[NotApplicable]

Midnight is a color, not a time. Apple has spoken.

 

[jav6454]

Personally I intend to watch all of the YouTube ‘reviews’ just to get a look at the machine and to garner some early, rudimentary info about throttling and performance while waiting for the likes of notebookcheck to publish their reviews. Though I’ll probably mute most of it!

I just will likely watch two to see if they match up.

 

[Asiatic Black Hebrew]

I just will likely watch two to see if they match up.

They will. Unbox, praise the design, perform an arbitrary speed test, & then complain about the fingerprints.

 

[jav6454]

I bet Max Tech his M2 MacBook Air order will be cancelled by Apple.

Doesn't matter, reviewers will likely check the whole SSD scenario as one of the first things.

 

[DavidChoux]

Correct. Your point?



You're speaking in absolutes, about something you clearly know nothing about. I suggest you use the search function & look at comments from other threads on this very site on the topic. Google is also an option. Give reddit a try as well if you'd like. To simply say you're wrong, would be an understatement.



I'm not sure if it's because of flat out laziness on your part or an unwillingness to accept reality, but there have been quite a few comments made on this site, YouTube, reddit, other forums, etc, that have shown people take these negative reviews/press seriously, whether they actually understand the data being presented or not. For many, who look up to these content creators, for reasons I'll never understand, all they seem to take away is that "X creator" says the laptop is apparently slower than last years, therefore it's bad. Many people don't even completely understand the nuance involved with that statement. More involved users, who probably don't rely on YouTube reviews to make their purchasing decisions, won't be affected & they probably weren't considering the base model anyway. However, there are quite a few people who will be, which is apparent from the comments I've personally read on numerous sites, which you refuse to acknowledge, & the view counts/comments on these review videos, within a few hours of being posted.

I'm not making excuses for Apple here. But the point is, there are users who certainly would not have noticed a difference in speed for what they need the laptop to do, yet they're being scared away from the model. Whatever you take away from that, is completely up to you, but don't kill the messenger.



Again, you're speaking in absolutes. And again, the search function is free. Here's a comment from a few pages ago in this very thread.

The point about the finger prints is you have no idea the demographic of those users who were dissuaded from buying it because of those reviewers comments about fingerprints. You seem to think that those people have been mislead by the reviewer and actually wouldn't really care about finger prints. At the same time those people you saw who were dissuaded could actually be people who, for whatever reason, have genuine concern for how clean their laptop looks and the reviewer's information about how easy it is to get finger prints was genuinely helpful for them. You just have no idea.

So the issue with your views is that you make huge assumptions. All those people who are calling it "slow" and "crappy" you are for some reason assuming they are the average user and won't run into those circumstances where the single NAND implementation would affect them. What about if that's not true? What about if all those people who are calling it slow were actually planning on making videos in FCPX while using Chrome, or doing some other heavy tasks were the single NAND implementation might create some significant slow downs? What about if those people who are "being scared away" by these reviewers were genuinely going to be the ones who would be affected by this, and not just an "average user" who was mislead by some sensational review?

I'm not saying it's the opposite of what you think because I don't know either. I'm simply pointing out the flaws in your reasoning. You're making poor inferences from some very limited poor quality data and then claiming these sensational reviews are misleading people.

 

[CraigJDuffy]

14”.

It’s a closer comparison than expected with the M1 Pro.

14 is a great machine so yeah I’d go with that!