Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Apple's response does not say they can't do it.

This is my thought too.

“We have always maintained there is no such thing as a backdoor just for the good guys. Backdoors can also be exploited by those who threaten our national security and the data security of our customers.” implies that there is a way but they refuse to release it. If there truly isn’t a way then fine, state such and move on . .

The thing is though, anyone including Apple would be crazy to pass on an opportunity to exploit situation by standing on a soap box as a defender of privacy. So even if it isn’t possible, there is marketing opportunity to be had.
 
This is my understanding as well. The only way they would be able to do it is with a 'back door' which Apple (rightly) refuses to implement.
Yep, and if they were to implement such a thing, that doesn’t help at all for this phone and investigation (if you can’t unlock this phone, you can’t update the OS/firmware). Which is why the request looks disingenuous - if they want a backdoor in all future phones, come out and say that (I’m guessing they don't want to be seen asking for that).
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 26139
The point is Apple can’t do it. That’s how they designed it.
If it's only locked with a 6-digit code, they can do it. That's 10M permutations, and the only thing stopping others from guessing quickly is the secrecy of the hardware.
[automerge]1579073207[/automerge]
Most back up to iCloud, is that the answer you were looking for? Oh, those backups are encrypted before they leave your phone (when it wants your password before restoring it isn't just for "permission", it's for decrypting the backup). If the FBI could easily break the AES128 encryption on the iCloud backups, they wouldn't be asking for Apple's help.

More info here: iCloud security overview - Apple Support
As the link says, it's not end to end, so Apple can read the backup.
Also, gotta appreciate how simple and transparent that security overview page is. Google won't give you that.
 
Last edited:
Violent criminals have given up their rights when they decided to become violent criminals

I hardly see how 'the right to privacy' or 'orange man bad' is a defensible stance on this one, but alas, I'm sure I'll see things fly off the rails in no time with replies

As for dangerous precedents set to move the goal post on what's acceptable in terms of 'privacy violations' -- we are long past that inflection point, with the discovery of NSA dragnet spying on every single law abiding citizen, just cuz, and the Patriot Act playing into the fears of 9/11, and all the rest of it.

There are already ways for law enforcement to get around certain Apple protection mechanisms. But this requires specialist people, time, software and therefore money. It costs a bit and takes a while.
So, if they ask Apple to comply and help them break THIS phone... how long do you think it will take until Apple needs to break another phone? For the next murder or kidnapping case? Or rape or arson or theft?
How many millions of capital crimes are committed in the US per year? That would flood Apple with requests. And then, Apple would have to give out instructions to 3rd parties, because they won't be able to handle the amount. And THIS exactly is, what law enforcement wants Apple to do: Hand out an easy path, the golden key so to say.
But if this would happen, it won't be a secret very long. The easier, the more problematic. And soon, it would be common knowledge for many people that you wouldn't trust around your phone.
Sure, YOU as a person would probably be unaffected.
But what about all the people that really need their data to be protected? Federal Judges could be blackmailed into decisions because they have a pic of them in "private situations".
Celebrities are already subjected to a lot of hacking attempts, are they not allowed to have privacy because they are famous? If there would be a "golden key", you may as well throw away any keys.
Politicians, Government members, just about everybody in a public position is somehow of interest for a certain group of people. And then, let the fun begin.
So for the sake of everybody, law enforcement should not force Apple to go down that route.
 
Irrespective of right or wrong, it's not a very diplomatic way to go about it.
 
How about those black boxes(or whats their name was) from black market? Yea,yea,yea, i know, IoS Is SeCuRe AgAiNsT tHaT, but, with every new iPhone update, there is new black box update that surpasses it, so, whats the big deal? Because using it is immoral and illegal? Well, I guess, mass shootings also are highly immoral and also illegal, so, what are people waiting on?
 
How about those black boxes(or whats their name was) from black market? Yea,yea,yea, i know, IoS Is SeCuRe AgAiNsT tHaT, but, with every new iPhone update, there is new black box update that surpasses it, so, whats the big deal? Because using it is immoral and illegal? Well, I guess, mass shootings also are highly immoral and also illegal, so, what are people waiting on?
I suppose there's no guessing box for the latest version yet.
 
Both of these phones have the flawed bootrom and can be easily unlocked using existing tools. They have no need of any help from Apple.
 
It's quite obvious the U.S, and the Trump administration in particular, is using a genuine tragedy to push for totalarian regulations. Ever since the Snowden revelations we've known that the U.S has the ambition to spy on not just all of its citizens but the whole world. Forcing tech companies to give them access to backdoors into consumer products is perfectly inline with this ambition. This has very little to do with the specific case, it's a broader assault on our freedom.
 
The point is Apple can’t do it. That’s how they designed it.
I don't buy that at all. It's not hardware that can be destroyed and not restored to its former glory like something that's been burned. It's a collection of numbers, it may be a whole lot of numbers and they may be extemely complex large ones but that is all it is.
Apple engineered it and in time they can reverse engineer it, (if they choose to).

Whether you agree or not that they should do it is the question, who knows, I may be the one being naive here but just taking the word of a tech company that they have no answer to this seems naive to me.
 
  • Like
Reactions: PC_tech
What's next, Mr Trump ? Bombing of Apple HQ in Cupertino ?
[automerge]1579080201[/automerge]
Sacrificing the privacy of hundreds of millions of innocent Americans humans across the world just for more evidence on an already convicted shooter makes no sense.
It is just an excuse... the US government want a backdoor in iOS. Nothing more than that.
[automerge]1579080315[/automerge]
> We are helping Apple all of the time on TRADE and so many other issues

lol
Trump basically created a lot of problems to Apple since the beginning...
 
  • Like
Reactions: 26139
I don't buy that at all. It's not hardware that can be destroyed and not restored to its former glory like something that's been burned. It's a collection of numbers, it may be a whole lot of numbers and they may be extemely complex large ones but that is all it is.
Apple engineered it and in time they can reverse engineer it, (if they choose to).

Whether you agree or not that they should do it is the question, who knows, I may be the one being naive here but just taking the word of a tech company that they have no answer to this seems naive to me.

Apple can do it, but by doing it they also create a situation where every iPhone in the whole world can be accessed by the same method. There's no way for Apple to get into this particular phone without, at the same time, making all iPhones insecure. This is what the U.S government really wants, a way to get into every phone. They don't really care about this particular phone.
 
Wonder what's apple hiding they will not unlock a phone ? Google will in a heart beat.

Its not Apple's data that government is after, government wants User data from iPhone, so Apple is not hiding anything, users are hiding it because Apple can't unlock iPhone.
[automerge]1579080669[/automerge]
Are you implying iCloud has a bit-for-bit copy of what's on your phone? Or do you just not know what you're talking about?

If user has synced photos, contacts, mails, iMessages and backed up his/her phone to iCloud then Apple has to provide the data to law enforcement as long as there is warrant, because Apple has this data in their servers, but they can't access data from user ipHone which is not synced/backed up to iCloud.
[automerge]1579081006[/automerge]
I don't buy that at all. It's not hardware that can be destroyed and not restored to its former glory like something that's been burned. It's a collection of numbers, it may be a whole lot of numbers and they may be extemely complex large ones but that is all it is.
Apple engineered it and in time they can reverse engineer it, (if they choose to).

Whether you agree or not that they should do it is the question, who knows, I may be the one being naive here but just taking the word of a tech company that they have no answer to this seems naive to me.

If Apple doesn't have this already in iOS then i don't think they can do it because Apple has to update iOS software, then update this phone to new iOS then use backdoor to get the information from iPhone.
iOS update needs passcode.
[automerge]1579081252[/automerge]
That is incorrect. Apple can. This was revealed in the San Bernadino case where the iPhone was protected by a PIN.

It's not hard to brute force 10,000 pins. However, it is restricted by a timeout and an eventual auto wipe. This is enforced in software. All Apple needs to do is create and sign a custom firmware that skips over the code that does this.

You can argue whether Apple should or should not, but the fact is that there's no technical reason why they can't. It's a social issue at play.

All Apple needs to do is create and sign a custom firmware that skips over the code that does this.
iOS update needs phone password, am i wrong ?
 
Last edited:
Well I’m convinced this administration isn’t asking for backdoor exploit handouts they literally just want all the guys records , and Tim being a globalist is more on board with this recurring trend from one political party of catch and release criminals back into society. Open borders, and ideological pats on the back along the whole journey. It’s all so perfect
And only harms every day citizens but not at all coveted elites who don’t have to worry about their own security or finances being on another planet proverbially speaking, protected and unaffected while the world turns to hell


Why bother having law and justice at all if these guys can rinse and repeat what they’re doing and powers that be turn a blind eye and borderline are encouraging this kinda behavior

But I’m done now; at least with you

Why bother having law and justice at all if these guys can rinse and repeat what they’re doing and powers that be turn a blind eye and borderline are encouraging this kinda behavior
Law states that Apple should hand over any data they have in their control as long as law enforcement has warrant, law doesn't say that Apple should create a backdoor into their product.
May be Apple can create a backdoor but once it is created then the software is on the loose and any other country can ask for what ever information they want from any iPhone they choose, it is a slipper slope.
 
Apple can do it, but by doing it they also create a situation where every iPhone in the whole world can be accessed by the same method. There's no way for Apple to get into this particular phone without, at the same time, making all iPhones insecure. This is what the U.S government really wants, a way to get into every phone. They don't really care about this particular phone.
Yep. Not disputing that. Only questioning the notion that they can’t get into the phone.
 
  • Like
Reactions: PC_tech
No you are completely misunderstanding. Cellebrite is going through a backdoor. The anti-hammer provisions are a front door. Cellebrite can't modify core OS code due to OS signing. Apple holds the signing keys and can.

You're believing that there's some magic cryptography that guarantees that you can only try 10 pins. There isn't. There's explicit code that Apple wrote that can be bypassed by Apple. In fact, this code has been changed by Apple during regular iOS updates, e.g. when they added the feature to require a PIN once a week.

Arguing based on a misconception or technical ignorance just hurts the cause.
And are you sure they can flash a firmware at hardware level without wiping out every data on the phone itself ? I am not so sure about that.
 
Apple is an hardware/software/services company that tries to make their product private and secure
Trump want from Apple something that company doesnt know ...Apple is not a hacking company by nature
Trump please, stop begging the wrong people/company its just embarrassing
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.