Donald Trump Says Apple Won't Be Granted Tariff Relief on Mac Pro Parts Made in China: 'Make Them in The USA, No Tariffs!'

[BaldiMac]

You are the one that seemed to have issues with my comments on how tariffs can be used or are potentially used. If you agree that they can be multifaceted, potential outcomes/responses can vary, etc. then we are in agreement there.

A: The way 45/47 is using tariffs is bad.
webkit: Tariffs can potentially be good.
A: Sure. But the way 45/47 is using tariffs is bad.
webkit: But they have been used by other people for good things like generating revenue, trade balance, and fostering US manufacturing.
A. Yep. But that's not the way they've been used by 45/47.
webkit: The can potentially be used that way.
A: Yep. But that's completely irrelevant to the point that the way 45/47 is using them are bad.

At this point (and not surprising to me) the proposed tariffs against Canada and Mexico are on hold for now as the leaders of both countries have agreed to concessions. Time will tell how it all actually plays out.

Hah! The only concessions were basically photo ops. 10K troops from Mexico moved closer to the border (Biden got 15K without threatening to blow up the North American economy) and a "fetanyl czar" (despite very little fetanyl coming in from Canada). 45/47 conceded a effort to stop the flow of US guns into the hands of Mexican cartels.

Both of these things could have easily been done without threats of tariffs.

 

[turbineseaplane]

@BaldiMac

You're forgetting to work backwards from "Don is a genius, savvy businessman and master negotiator tough guy"

 

[webkit]

You continue to post the theorycrafted speculation that the EO did anything that the mere threat of tariffs did not. It is nothing but speculation that the EO did anything to move these plans along.

Discussions from all "sides" here about this sort of thing are largely just speculation. That's often what happens on forums.

The rules set up post WW2 that established that borders may not move by force has been one of the primary reasons for the long peace.
It is not up to Americans anyway, it is up to Canadians

This is a reason why I don’t think it will happen. I also don’t think Trump is serious and has instead been using the
"51st state" rhetoric as a negotiating tactic in discussions related to trade/tariffs, border security, immigration, and drug trafficking issues, etc.

And again, the idea has been around for AGES including in Canada. There was even a political party formed in Canada on the idea of at least a province separating from Canada to join the U.S. as the 51st state.

Trump's trade actions against China have already pushed them closer to Russia, strengthening Russia and weakening the US. Will they stay aligned with Russia in the long term? I doubt it, but in the short term this looks like an own goal by Trump.

They had already gotten much closer economically and militarily during the Biden years. In 2022, for example, Russia and China signed a "no limits" partnership on political, economic/trade, and military cooperation.

 

[bcortens]

They had already gotten much closer economically and militarily during the Biden years. In 2022, for example, Russia and China signed a "no limits" partnership on political, economic/trade, and military cooperation.

That doesn't make the fact that these tariffs are pushing them even closer together good.

"Look Biden did bad thing, now please ignore Trump doing the same bad thing"

 

[webkit]

You're forgetting to work backwards from "Don is a genius, savvy businessman and master negotiator tough guy"

If people choose to get most of their news from places like Fox News or Newsmax they may think that. Those who choose to get most of their news from places like CNN and MSNBC are more likely think Trump is the personification of evil.

Ah, the wonders of a polarized (and biased) media and society.

 

[turbineseaplane]

MAGA is just so much projection

It's galling all the many things, minor now in hindsight, they used to scream and shout about when "the other side" was doing something..

Now suddenly, an unelected private citizen with no clearances illegally infiltrating, raiding and terminating Gov org one after another and stealing data on all Americans is ....

"no problem"?

Folks, the USA is being looted and destroyed in REAL TIME .. right now

It's not being "made great" -- it's being torn to the studs illegally

I never want to hear about "The Constitution" ever again from the Right

 

[turbineseaplane]

btw -- it's crazy scary how little coverage some of this is getting

So much of the media, national and local, has been bought up and destroyed which is really helping this coup go off without a hitch

The USA is getting fully "Orbán'd"

 

[webkit]

That doesn't make the fact that these tariffs are pushing them even closer together good.

"Look Biden did bad thing, now please ignore Trump doing the same bad thing"

As has been noted, a lot of this is simply speculation. Especially regarding the impact.

One thing that goes with out saying is for that presidents (and other politicians) from both parties do or have done potentially "bad" things. Unfortunately, because much of the the media and society are so ridiculously partisan and biased, discussions on political matters can be quite tiresome and a waste of time.

 

[BaldiMac]

If people choose to get most of their news from places like Fox News or Newsmax they may think that. Those who choose to get most of their news from places like CNN and MSNBC are more likely think Trump is the personification of evil.

Ah, the wonders of a polarized (and biased) media and society.

How many crimes do you have to commit before a rational media can portray you as a bad person?

 

[turbineseaplane]

"Of course it's a coup"

"President Trump, for that matter, will also perform at Musk’s pleasure. There is not much he can do without the use of the federal government’s computers. No one will explain this to Trump or to his supporters, of course.

A coup is underway, against Americans as possessors of human rights and dignities, and against Americans as citizens of a democratic republic. Each hour this goes unrecognized makes the success of the coup more likely."

 

[turbineseaplane]

Totally cool ... please do tell me more about "her emails" or "Hunters laptop"

 

[bcortens]

As has been noted, a lot of this is simply speculation. Especially regarding the impact.

One thing that goes with out saying is for that presidents (and other politicians) from both parties do or have done potentially "bad" things. Unfortunately, because much of the the media and society are so ridiculously partisan and biased, discussions on political matters can be quite tiresome and a waste of time.

China tariffs were not paused, that is not speculation.
China is responding with reduced US imports, switching to other countries,
China is reducing exports of key rare earth elements making domestic manufacturing requiring those elements more expensive.

These are bad things for the US position in the world (unless you think ceding the rest of the world to China is a good thing).
This isn't speculation.

If the plan was to ramp domestic capacity for these things they should have had a plan to do that. Lay out a 1-3 year plan to build out the US based mines needed for rare earth, to drill for the oil, etc... Pretending there is a plan when we haven't actually heard one is just wishful thinking.

 

[webkit]

How many crimes do you have to commit before a rational media can portray you as a bad person?

That depends on what "national media" sources we are talking about. Conservative media talking about the Biden and/or Clinton "crime families" or the liberal media talking about Trump?

 

[webkit]

China tariffs were not paused, that is not speculation.
China is responding with reduced US imports, switching to other countries,
China is reducing exports of key rare earth elements making domestic manufacturing requiring those elements more expensive.

These are bad things for the US position in the world (unless you think ceding the rest of the world to China is a good thing).
This isn't speculation.

If the plan was to ramp domestic capacity for these things they should have had a plan to do that. Lay out a 1-3 year plan to build out the US based mines needed for rare earth, to drill for the oil, etc... Pretending there is a plan when we haven't actually heard one is just wishful thinking.

The "speculations" come in when talking about what caused certain things, whether it one thing or the buildup of multiple things. how bad any one thing really is or may be, who may be responsible, potential outside factors, etc. The answer is largely going to be driven by one's personal bias/slant (or worse) which, again, can make political discussions tiresome and even nasty. Hence why there is a separate "Political News" section on this forum.

 

[BaldiMac]

That depends on what "national media" sources we are talking about. Conservative media talking about the Biden and/or Clinton "crime families" or the liberal media talking about Trump?

No, it doesn't. It just requires you to defend your own opinion instead of throwing out whataboutisms.

The fact that you can't distinguish between news and opinions is an all too common problem.

 

[webkit]

No, it doesn't. It just requires you to defend your own opinion instead of throwing out whataboutisms.

The fact that you can't distinguish between news and opinions is an all too common problem.

The actual problem is you and too many others think news is news and opinion is opinion and can’t seem to recognize just how much opinion and bias has become a part of national news reporting and how much each side ignores or tries to downplay the negatives of their "side" and overemphasizes the negatives of the opposing "side."

Anyone who watches CNN, Fox News, MSNBC, etc. and thinks they are getting straight news is fooling themselves. Even Stephen Colbert's audience laughed when he said to CNN's Kaitlin Collins, "I know you guys are objective over there, that you just report the news as it is." They laughed because it is laughable. Same is true for other national news channels/organizations including print and online.

Despite what you may think, news is not just news anymore and hasn't been for a while.

 

[jlc1978]

Americans fought a war over self determination for gods sake.

An the Canadians fought to not be part of us. Twice.

 

[BaldiMac]

The actual problem is you and too many others think news is news and opinion is opinion and can’t seem to recognize just how much opinion and bias has become a part of national news reporting and how much each side ignores or tries to downplay the negatives of their "side" and overemphasizes the negatives of the opposing "side."

Anyone who watches CNN, Fox News, MSNBC, etc. and thinks they are getting straight news is fooling themselves. Even Stephen Colbert's audience laughed when he said to CNN's Kaitlin Collins, "I know you guys are objective over there, that you just report the news as it is." They laughed because it is laughable. Same is true for other national news channels/organizations including print and online.

Despite what you may think, news is not just news anymore and hasn't been for a while.

As I said, your confusing entertainment television with actual reporting. Which is the point. 45 wants to make it so facts can be dismissed as partisan. For example, CNN's reporting is neutral or skews slightly left. Fox News's reporting is hyper partisan. These aren't examples of two sides doing the same thing.

Case in point, the question I asked you. You went on a rant about the nature of reality instead of answering a simple question. Reporting that 45 is a liar and fraudster isn't a partisan statement.

 

[bcortens]

An the Canadians fought to not be part of us. Twice.

Yeah, I was mostly pointing out that Americans should value the right of self determination and that they shouldn't impose their own desires on other countries that have no interest in joining them.

 

[webkit]

As I said, your confusing entertainment television with actual reporting. Which is the point. 45 wants to make it so facts can be dismissed as partisan. For example, CNN's reporting is neutral or skews slightly left. Fox News's reporting is hyper partisan. These aren't examples of two sides doing the same thing.

Case in point, the question I asked you. You went on a rant about the nature of reality instead of answering a simple question. Reporting that 45 is a liar and fraudster isn't a partisan statement.

Again, I was talking about news reporting. The quote was, "I know you guys are objective over there, that you just report the news as it is." That's what was laughable. Unfortunately, objectiveness, reporting news "as it is" is, etc. is largely a thing of the past, and not just with CNN or cable news.

The polluting of news reporting with biases, agendas, etc. is an unfortunately reality and a reason why trust in the media to report news "fully, accurately and fairly" has been at or near record lows. Way below what it once was.

How "fully, accurately and fairly" national news sources report (or cover up/don't report) on the Biden and/or Clinton "crime families" and/or Trump, so-called lawfare on each side, future appeals, etc. can depend on their bias/slant.

 

[BaldiMac]

Again, I was talking about news reporting. The quote was, "I know you guys are objective over there, that you just report the news as it is." That's what was laughable. Unfortunately, objectiveness, reporting news "as it is" is, etc. is largely a thing of the past, and not just with CNN or cable news.

The polluting of news reporting with biases, agendas, etc. is an unfortunately reality and a reason why trust in the media to report news "fully, accurately and fairly" has been at or near record lows. Way below what it once was.

How "fully, accurately and fairly" national news sources report (or cover up/don't report) on the Biden and/or Clinton "crime families" and/or Trump, so-called lawfare on each side, future appeals, etc. can depend on their bias/slant.

Somebody laughing at a comedian isn't data, it's an anecdote. Again, vague, anecdotal claims of bias is just another distraction, so you can avoid answering the question that you responded to.

 

[Aoligei]

Discussions from all "sides" here about this sort of thing are largely just speculation. That's often what happens on forums.

The tariff will be back, Trump is true believer of tariff and he is not backing down. This is merely Trump first attempt to test water.

Most drug cartels transport drugs underground or through various means of transportation. You really think 10,000 military personnel over 3000km border will do anything meaningful to stop illicit drugs and illegal migrant?

It is even funnier to target Canada. Less than 1% of illicit drugs and illegal migrant comes from Canada. The whole thing is BS.

This is a reason why I don’t think it will happen. I also don’t think Trump is serious and has instead been using the
"51st state" rhetoric as a negotiating tactic in discussions related to trade/tariffs, border security, immigration, and drug trafficking issues, etc.

And again, the idea has been around for AGES including in Canada. There was even a political party formed in Canada on the idea of at least a province separating from Canada to join the U.S. as the 51st state.

View attachment 2479476

Funny you mention about Quebec. If anything, Quebec is the one will refuse to join US. Quebec value its French heritage and French language, it is incompatible with US. Unless US is willing to accept French as its official languages.

They had already gotten much closer economically and militarily during the Biden years. In 2022, for example, Russia and China signed a "no limits" partnership on political, economic/trade, and military cooperation.

Oh no. The trade between China and Russian was relative small until invasion of Ukraine. With all the sanctions, Chinese companies took the vacuum left by western companies.

The majority of staffs that China import from Russia is energy, whereas China export almost everything else that Russian needs for everyday life. From smartphone to cars, from appliances to soda, you name it.

 

[Aoligei]

What you don't seem to understand is that this is a finite process. It has nothing to do with the US, the same thing would have happened to any other country.

Sanctions and tariffs are designed to abolish WTO as a Bretton Woods institution. The only way to sustain Bretton Woods institutions is to reduce living standards in US by 40-50% and yes you can continue "dominance" in financial markets, patents and high-tech for even longer.

Sure thing.

You really think rip current system won't destroy US dollars? The whole reason US dollar worth more is because it acting as world's reserve currency. The moment you rip apart and starting isolating, US dollar will start devaluing.

If US dollar loss its value as world currency, you really think US treasury bill will be considered as risk free investment? You really think US government can borrow it way through? You will face some painful reality is that US will loss it dominance, programs that are essential to US citizens will be cut, US will no longer able to maintain its massive military force.

If Donald Trump choose this road, then be prepared.

 

[avz]

Sure thing.

You really think rip current system won't destroy US dollars? The whole reason US dollar worth more is because it acting as world's reserve currency. The moment you rip apart and starting isolating, US dollar will start devaluing.

Any model reaches its logical conclusion, so it is not about "wants and wishes", you don't really have a choice unless people in US would agree to give up 40-50% of their wealth and living standards to continue support this model "against all odds".

Devalued dollar(outside of the US) will be great for the manufacturing in US in case you did not know.

If US dollar loss its value as world currency, you really think US treasury bill will be considered as risk free investment? You really think US government can borrow it way through?

This has already happened, countries started reducing their US bonds since 2008. The countries who did this too slowly will likely suffer the most. The US government "borrowing" is what caused the problem in the first place. US is already "quietly defaulting" by refusing to accept some paper dollars and I am sure they are using other "smart ways" to default.

You will face some painful reality is that US will loss it dominance, programs that are essential to US citizens will be cut, US will no longer able to maintain its massive military force.

It is a given that a middle class will likely disappear as there is no "magic pill" or "just one more US government magic borrowing" that can fix this.

If Donald Trump choose this road, then be prepared.

This model has nothing to do with Trump, Kamala Harris in her interview was very smart when she essentially said that living standards will fall and that "she is serious about it". Please note that she did not say that she was serious about fixing it as there is no easy solution.

 

[webkit]

Somebody laughing at a comedian isn't data, it's an anecdote. Again, vague, anecdotal claims of bias is just another distraction, so you can avoid answering the question that you responded to.

Nonsense. Not everything on a late night talk show is meant to be funny and his comment was not a joke. It was part of a straightforward conversation with Collins about CNN news reporting. After the audience laughed, Collins even asked if his statement was supposed to be a "laugh line" and Colbert said it wasn't supposed to be. The audience reaction was clearly a reflection of how news reporting is polluted with biases, agendas, etc. and is a reason why trust in the media to report news "fully, accurately and fairly" has been at or near record lows. Way below what it once was. While the Colbert/Collins discussion was about CNN news reporting, it is far from just a CNN issue.

If you can't recognize this then there's no point in continuing this discussion.