Don't buy intel mbp now ?

Tankmaze

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Original poster
Mar 7, 2012
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I'm still using my 2015 R9 mbp and it still works perfectly for my needs and about to upgrade to new 16" but knowing the announcement and looking back at the history powerpc to intel transition, the last powerbook G4 to support mac OS was for 2 years. Apple released it in 2005 and the last support for the machine was OSX leopard in 2007.
that's just 2 years of OS updates !

Quote from wikipedia :
"The latest version of OS X that any PowerBook G4 can run is Mac OS X Leopard, released in 2007.[1] When Apple switched to Intel x86 processors in 2006, the PowerBook G4's form and aluminum chassis were retained for the MacBook Pro."

Beginning to think I should hold off on upgrading and wait until apple deliver 16" arm mbp.
 

joseph.s.jones

macrumors member
Mar 23, 2011
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Do you use windows in boot camp, or use windows in parallels to run any windows only software? If yes, consider buying an intel MacBook now because based on what little we have to go on, it looks like it’ll be a headache to run that software on an ARM Mac. If you don’t need either of those two things then I’d wait for the ARM machines as they’ll likely be better for everything else.
 

Tankmaze

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Mar 7, 2012
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Do you use windows in boot camp, or use windows in parallels to run any windows only software? If yes, consider buying an intel MacBook now because based on what little we have to go on, it looks like it’ll be a headache to run that software on an ARM Mac.
I use windows in boot camp just to play games, specifically shadow tactics and now desperados 3, it brings back memories of playing commandos. But I can live without those games and I don't use windows other than that, So if that's the only reason to buy intel mbp I will definitely wait until apple releases new ARM machines.

Thanks for the suggestion.
 

gugy

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Jan 31, 2005
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La Jolla, CA
Do you use windows in boot camp, or use windows in parallels to run any windows only software? If yes, consider buying an intel MacBook now because based on what little we have to go on, it looks like it’ll be a headache to run that software on an ARM Mac. If you don’t need either of those two things then I’d wait for the ARM machines as they’ll likely be better for everything else.
Yep, I don't use Windows at all, that's why the new Silicon chips are appealing to me. I also have a MBP 15” 2015. Holding for a while. The new chips look damn impressive.
 

nikhsub1

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Jun 19, 2007
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mmmm... jessica.'s beer...
I need VMs big time.... so not sure what I'm gonna do now. I have a 2016 first TB MBP and I'm dying to get off this, the keyboard sucks and I can't take it anymore. I hope they update to the 10th gen i9 at least...
 
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Eliott69

macrumors member
Mar 16, 2019
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... at the history powerpc to intel transition, the last powerbook G4 to support mac OS was for 2 years. Apple released it in 2005 and the last support for the machine was OSX leopard in 2007.
that's just 2 years of OS updates !
That is not correct. The transition was announced in summer 2005 and the last version of Mac OS X supporting PowerPC was Mac OS X 10.5 Leopard, version 10.5.8 released in August 2011. So these are 6 years. See Apple's transition to Intel processors.

Secondly, Apple announced also that they will release updated Intel-based Macs in the (near) future, which I assume is the usual fall-lineup (as every October/November), but might also include "a last round" of devices next year.
 

MJedi

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Dec 16, 2010
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I'm torn between getting a 2020 now or waiting. I currently have a 13-inch 2017 i5/16GB/512GB. I want to get the 13-inch 2020 for the new keyboard and the quad-core 10th-gen i5. If Apple says the transition will take 2 years, I figure it will take an additional year to work out the bugs of a 1st-generation product. So if I get a 2020 MBP now, it will only be 3 years old by the time I'm ready to upgrade. But if I keep my 2017 MBP, it will be 6 years old by then.

But, buying an Intel-based MBP now seems like a foolish thing to do. I don't use my MBP for Parallels or Bootcamp since I have a 2019 iMac 5k for that.

First-world problems. :)
 

Tankmaze

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Original poster
Mar 7, 2012
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That is not correct. The transition was announced in summer 2005 and the last version of Mac OS X supporting PowerPC was Mac OS X 10.5 Leopard, version 10.5.8 released in August 2011. So these are 6 years. See Apple's transition to Intel processors.
Thanks for the correction, but according to wikipedia
Latest release10.5.8 (Build 9L31a)[3] / August 13, 2009; 10 years ago[4]

Support status
Obsolete, unsupported as of about June 23, 2011

So it was until 2009, that's 4 years after release. My 2015 MBP could probably still get update until 2 macOS version until Apple goes full ARM OS. Which is why probably now it's not a good time to invest in intel mbp.


Secondly, Apple announced also that they will release updated Intel-based Macs in the (near) future, which I assume is the usual fall-lineup (as every October/November), but might also include "a last round" of devices next year.
Yeah I believe this is just pure marketing on the Apple side, they sure wouldn't want people to stop buying macs and wait for ARM macs next year.
- - Post merged: - -

I'm torn between getting a 2020 now or waiting. I currently have a 13-inch 2017 i5/16GB/512GB. I want to get the 13-inch 2020 for the new keyboard and the quad-core 10th-gen i5. If Apple says the transition will take 2 years, I figure it will take an additional year to work out the bugs of a 1st-generation product. So if I get a 2020 MBP now, it will only be 3 years old by the time I'm ready to upgrade. But if I keep my 2017 MBP, it will be 6 years old by then.

But, buying an Intel-based MBP now seems like a foolish thing to do. I don't use my MBP for Parallels or Bootcamp since I have a 2019 iMac 5k for that.

First-world problems. :)

Well I'm still rocking 5 years old MBP and it runs great. Only slow if I want to encode videos, it took longer but other than that it is still fast enough for my needs.
 

pshufd

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Oct 24, 2013
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I cant wait to see what apple makes for its new chipset. It’s going to make a everything out now slow, big, heavy, and old overnight.
They could just buy them from someone else as I'm sure that there are existing ARM motherboards out there. They could also just buy a company that makes them or hire some of their employees.
 

Marbles1

macrumors member
Nov 27, 2011
64
43
The best advice I'm hearing is 'buy what you need now'.

I needed a new MacBook Pro, I was going to buy a maxed out 16" but opted instead for the mid range, 10th gen 13” MBP. Great for bootcamp/parallels, fast, will be well supported for years; I'd guess at least 4 or 5.

There are 100million+ current Mac users. They're not all going to upgrade. It will take years of churn for Intel to be in the minority and developers want to make money and will make and support software for these users.
 
Last edited:

kaans

macrumors regular
Nov 17, 2014
174
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The new Macbook's last 18 months as best anyway, so now is THE TIME to buy one :D In 18 months, when the li-po inside becomes a balloon, you can dump it and give Apple another arm for an ARM :D
 

cardfan

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Mar 23, 2012
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I’d say now is the best time to get an Intel Mac. You want something that actually runs software you can use. An arm Mac is all about using Rosetta and hardly optimal. Arm apps will hardly be full versions right away. It’ll need years.

Software always matters more.
 

Yebubbleman

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May 20, 2010
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I'm still using my 2015 R9 mbp and it still works perfectly for my needs and about to upgrade to new 16" but knowing the announcement and looking back at the history powerpc to intel transition, the last powerbook G4 to support mac OS was for 2 years. Apple released it in 2005 and the last support for the machine was OSX leopard in 2007.
that's just 2 years of OS updates !

Quote from wikipedia :
"The latest version of OS X that any PowerBook G4 can run is Mac OS X Leopard, released in 2007.[1] When Apple switched to Intel x86 processors in 2006, the PowerBook G4's form and aluminum chassis were retained for the MacBook Pro."

Beginning to think I should hold off on upgrading and wait until apple deliver 16" arm mbp.
Unless you have a specific reason not to, my advice would be to, for the MacBook Air, 13" MacBook Pro, Mac mini, wait. The ARM based versions of these Macs are poised to blow the Intel ones out of the water, given that the A12X and A12Z in home-button-less iPad Pros already blow pretty much anything that isn't a 16" MacBook Pro or beefier Intel machine out of the water. The only exception to this is if one buying one of those Macs is doing so for testing or compatibility purposes.

For the 16" MacBook Pro, iMac Pro, and Mac Pro, I'd definitely wait. (For iMac, it's debatable and likely dependent on use) Even Apple's ARM isn't ready to overtake Intel there JUST yet. Plus most of the kinds of apps that most of the people that tend to buy those machines will need to be updated and, depending on how Mom and Pop your software vendor is, that may be a bit of a wait. I know we saw Maya running in Rosetta 2 smoothly, but I still wouldn't gamble. By the time you kick yourself for not having an ARM based 16" MacBook Pro, an Intel MacBook Pro will be middle aged anyway.

As for your assertion about Mac OS X Leopard, it was supported and the latest OS until August 2009. Even PAST that point, it got security patches until 2011. If you bought a PowerBook G4 at the last possible moment in 2006, that is still five years of life, which for back then, was considered impressive.

I use windows in boot camp just to play games, specifically shadow tactics and now desperados 3, it brings back memories of playing commandos. But I can live without those games and I don't use windows other than that, So if that's the only reason to buy intel mbp I will definitely wait until apple releases new ARM machines.

Thanks for the suggestion.
Gaming on Mac sucks. The Retina display made that ****** (because most GPUs couldn't keep up until very recently), and then Catalina killing 32-bit app support basically wiped out 75% of what was left of Mac gaming. Or at least PC titles on Mac. If you want to play PC titles, just get a PC to do that. A $1500 Mac, even one with Boot Camp, isn't going to be as good as as $1000 PC at playing games.

That said, even if Windows 10 on ARM64 becomes doable via virtualization or a new Boot Camp assistant or both, Windows 10 on ARM will only run 64-bit ARM, 32-bit ARM, or 32-bit x86 apps. 64-bit x86 (known by Microsoft as x64) apps won't work. That's not to say that you are not still left with a good deal of x86 compatibility there, but if you're gaming with games for Windows that are 64-bit x86, you're gonna be **** out of luck on an ARM Mac. In which case, I might get an Intel 16" MacBook Pro now (or at least before they're replaced with ARM version).
 
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pshufd

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My current model is Windows with Screen Sharing into Macs. I suspect that you could do the same thing with gaming with a 10 GB LAN. I don't know if 10 GB Modem/Routers are available for home use but this is what we do in the office.
 
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C. Robert

macrumors 6502a
Oct 1, 2013
807
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Baltimore
Every single company right now is getting ready to release arm based computers. It is the future and its coming sooner rather than later. All software company’s will be moving software to those platforms. Thinner laptops, better touchscreen options, longer battery life, no more giant fans.
 

alexfc

macrumors member
Jul 13, 2012
42
29
Unless you have a specific reason not to, my advice would be to, for the MacBook Air, 13" MacBook Pro, Mac mini, wait. The ARM based versions of these Macs are poised to blow the Intel ones out of the water, given that the A12X and A12Z in home-button-less iPad Pros already blow pretty much anything that isn't a 16" MacBook Pro or beefier Intel machine out of the water. The only exception to this is if one buying one of those Macs is doing so for testing or compatibility purposes.

For the 16" MacBook Pro, iMac Pro, and Mac Pro, I'd definitely wait. (For iMac, it's debatable and likely dependent on use) Even Apple's ARM isn't ready to overtake Intel there JUST yet. Plus most of the kinds of apps that most of the people that tend to buy those machines will need to be updated and, depending on how Mom and Pop your software vendor is, that may be a bit of a wait. I know we saw Maya running in Rosetta 2 smoothly, but I still wouldn't gamble. By the time you kick yourself for not having an ARM based 16" MacBook Pro, an Intel MacBook Pro will be middle aged anyway.

As for your assertion about Mac OS X Leopard, it was supported and the latest OS until August 2009. Even PAST that point, it got security patches until 2011. If you bought a PowerBook G4 at the last possible moment in 2006, that is still five years of life, which for back then, was considered impressive.



Gaming on Mac sucks. The Retina display made that ****** (because most GPUs couldn't keep up until very recently), and then Catalina killing 32-bit app support basically wiped out 75% of what was left of Mac gaming. Or at least PC titles on Mac. If you want to play PC titles, just get a PC to do that. A $1500 Mac, even one with Boot Camp, isn't going to be as good as as $1000 PC at playing games.

That said, even if Windows 10 on ARM64 becomes doable via virtualization or a new Boot Camp assistant or both, Windows 10 on ARM will only run 64-bit ARM, 32-bit ARM, or 32-bit x86 apps. 64-bit x86 (known by Microsoft as x64) apps won't work. That's not to say that you are not still left with a good deal of x86 compatibility there, but if you're gaming with games for Windows that are 64-bit x86, you're gonna be **** out of luck on an ARM Mac. In which case, I might get an Intel 16" MacBook Pro now (or at least before they're replaced with ARM version).
I'm about to buy a 16" Macbook Pro. Do you think I should go for the 5600M? I don't think it's worth it for me. I won't game at all (at max I'd play Football Manager). My problem is that I will use a 4K external monitor and I'd like to keep the temps and fans speed down as much as possible. The 5600M probably wouldn't help with that, right?

Also, another concern I have is that I don’t think it would hold value as good as the 5500M in 5 years, right? I mean, the difference we pay for this upgrade won’t reflect an 800 dollars difference in a few years (of course the same applies for the 5500M but compared to what you pay for it today, you'd lose considerably more value on the 5600M).
 
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Eliott69

macrumors member
Mar 16, 2019
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60
Thanks for the correction, but according to wikipedia
Latest release10.5.8 (Build 9L31a)[3] / August 13, 2009; 10 years ago[4]

Support status
Obsolete, unsupported as of about June 23, 2011

So it was until 2009, that's 4 years after release.
This was the last release, but that doesn't mean the software was outdated at that moment – it just meant that no new features would be added. From then on there had been two years of security patches till June 23, 2011. Which means two years more of use than you claim.
 

Tankmaze

macrumors 68000
Original poster
Mar 7, 2012
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Unless you have a specific reason not to, my advice would be to, for the MacBook Air, 13" MacBook Pro, Mac mini, wait. The ARM based versions of these Macs are poised to blow the Intel ones out of the water, given that the A12X and A12Z in home-button-less iPad Pros already blow pretty much anything that isn't a 16" MacBook Pro or beefier Intel machine out of the water. The only exception to this is if one buying one of those Macs is doing so for testing or compatibility purposes.

For the 16" MacBook Pro, iMac Pro, and Mac Pro, I'd definitely wait. (For iMac, it's debatable and likely dependent on use) Even Apple's ARM isn't ready to overtake Intel there JUST yet. Plus most of the kinds of apps that most of the people that tend to buy those machines will need to be updated and, depending on how Mom and Pop your software vendor is, that may be a bit of a wait. I know we saw Maya running in Rosetta 2 smoothly, but I still wouldn't gamble. By the time you kick yourself for not having an ARM based 16" MacBook Pro, an Intel MacBook Pro will be middle aged anyway.

As for your assertion about Mac OS X Leopard, it was supported and the latest OS until August 2009. Even PAST that point, it got security patches until 2011. If you bought a PowerBook G4 at the last possible moment in 2006, that is still five years of life, which for back then, was considered impressive.

Yup, very good advice. I'm 90% confident now to wait for the 16" ARM mbp, the 10% in me is just itching for new mbp to play it because I have an almost 5 year old machine.

But when I bought my mbp back in August 2015 I never would have imagined Apple would change the platform like it did with powerpc and now my 2015 mbp performance more or less is on par with 2019 13" mbp so I'm guessing my machine could still get OS updates until Apple goes ARM OS all the way.

That means I could get the same OS updates with the current 16" with less performance obviously, but I can still get my work done.
 
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cardfan

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Mar 23, 2012
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I'm about to buy a 16" Macbook Pro. Do you think I should go for the 5600M? I don't think it's worth it for me. I won't game at all (at max I'd play Football Manager). My problem is that I will use a 4K external monitor and I'd like to keep the temps and fans speed down as much as possible. The 5600M probably wouldn't help with that, right?

Also, another concern I have is that I don’t think it would hold value as good as the 5500M in 5 years, right? I mean, the difference we pay for this upgrade won’t reflect an 800 dollars difference in a few years (of course the same applies for the 5500M but compared to what you pay for it today, you'd lose considerably more value on the 5600M).
I seriously don’t care about future values. Why start now? They’re all next to worthless in 5 years or so and if you get a few hundred then great. So what?

If you don’t know you’d need a 800 dollar video upgrade then you probably don’t. A faster card isn’t going to lower temps. Get the base model. Those have the deals.
 

Yebubbleman

macrumors 68040
May 20, 2010
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Los Angeles, CA
I'm about to buy a 16" Macbook Pro. Do you think I should go for the 5600M? I don't think it's worth it for me. I won't game at all (at max I'd play Football Manager). My problem is that I will use a 4K external monitor and I'd like to keep the temps and fans speed down as much as possible. The 5600M probably wouldn't help with that, right?

Also, another concern I have is that I don’t think it would hold value as good as the 5500M in 5 years, right? I mean, the difference we pay for this upgrade won’t reflect an 800 dollars difference in a few years (of course the same applies for the 5500M but compared to what you pay for it today, you'd lose considerably more value on the 5600M).
The choice between those two video cards is very highly not going to matter in terms of when they're not supported; both will most likely lose support on the very same day. The 5300M will be the better card to get in this case. The value difference will likely be negligible if resale is something you're really concerned about.

I wouldn’t buy any Mac with Intel processor until they fully transfer to new Apple Silicon processors. It’s like buying ageing dinosaurs.

Intel Macs are now on they extinction way.
Considering Intel Mac models have been getting an average of a decade in terms of security update support and 8 years of support for the latest macOS, I think that's a little bit silly. However, I do partially agree with your recommendation to not buy an Intel Mac. I think 16" MacBook Pro, iMac Pro, and Mac Pro are still sensible buys. 27" iMac likely is too. For anything less hefty than a 16" MacBook Pro is better to wait for the ARM equivalent unless you can't due to testing/support purposes. Apple still has a while yet before the faster ARM processors for the higher end Macs are ready for prime time.
 

pshufd

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Oct 24, 2013
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Considering Intel Mac models have been getting an average of a decade in terms of security update support and 8 years of support for the latest macOS, I think that's a little bit silly. However, I do partially agree with your recommendation to not buy an Intel Mac. I think 16" MacBook Pro, iMac Pro, and Mac Pro are still sensible buys. 27" iMac likely is too. For anything less hefty than a 16" MacBook Pro is better to wait for the ARM equivalent unless you can't due to testing/support purposes. Apple still has a while yet before the faster ARM processors for the higher end Macs are ready for prime time.
I still see ads for 2008 Mac Pros claiming to run Mojave and Catalina. So some models do have longevity. I still have a PowerMac G5 running Leopard? Maybe Snow Leopard. It's currently a stand for my mobile devices.
 

TheKDub

macrumors regular
Oct 30, 2008
113
57
The choice between those two video cards is very highly not going to matter in terms of when they're not supported; both will most likely lose support on the very same day. The 5300M will be the better card to get in this case. The value difference will likely be negligible if resale is something you're really concerned about.



Considering Intel Mac models have been getting an average of a decade in terms of security update support and 8 years of support for the latest macOS, I think that's a little bit silly. However, I do partially agree with your recommendation to not buy an Intel Mac. I think 16" MacBook Pro, iMac Pro, and Mac Pro are still sensible buys. 27" iMac likely is too. For anything less hefty than a 16" MacBook Pro is better to wait for the ARM equivalent unless you can't due to testing/support purposes. Apple still has a while yet before the faster ARM processors for the higher end Macs are ready for prime time.
Yeah, I'm feeling the same thing. I'm excited to see what improvements Apple Silicon brings. Only issue is that I just received my 2020 MBP 2 days ago (!!!) and already gave away my 2013 (which was well supported for 7+ years)... Ce la vie, I guess I'll have to upgrade in a few years.
 
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