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Don't buy intel mbp now ?
- Thread starter Tankmaze
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The real question is... what's the advantage of getting an ARM MacBook out of the gate?
You'll probably get better battery life and less heat & fan noise, but for those of us that use the machines mostly at home that doesn't help much.
Short term... 2-3 years maybe, it feels like intel chips still will have an edge in a lot of sustained load type apps and anything that uses custom extensions.
Some intel chip things to think about that ARM may not have out of the gate: thunderbolt compatibility, av1 hardware decoding this year, better virtualization extensions, etc.
Depreciation is a good factor to consider, though. Intel based MacBooks might be a lot less appealing if you are trying to sell one in 3-4 years.
You'll probably get better battery life and less heat & fan noise, but for those of us that use the machines mostly at home that doesn't help much.
Short term... 2-3 years maybe, it feels like intel chips still will have an edge in a lot of sustained load type apps and anything that uses custom extensions.
Some intel chip things to think about that ARM may not have out of the gate: thunderbolt compatibility, av1 hardware decoding this year, better virtualization extensions, etc.
Depreciation is a good factor to consider, though. Intel based MacBooks might be a lot less appealing if you are trying to sell one in 3-4 years.
iOS 12 continues to get small bug fixes and patches. The last update was in May 2020. Is that the kind of support Apple will provide?
Last G4/G5 compatible OSX was 10.5 which came out 2 years after last G5 Mac pro was released.
Apple did several more bug fix updates for 2 more years and then they stopped.
So the G5 Mac Pro buyers really only had 2 years of new MacOS releases and then 2 more years of bug fixes
Last Photoshop that supported PPC came out in 2008
Last MS office that was PPC compatible came out in 2008 also
Just 3 years after last G5 released.
Chrome ceased all PPC support/development around 2012
What has changed is that we now have Office 365 and Adobe Subscription model. As someone else mentioned, you're going to stop paying subscriptions when the software maker stops supporting your computer. So we should get better support from 3rd party. We're just likely going to miss out on future MacOS features that the ARM ones will get.
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I think you are probably right about how long Apple will support Intel macs. In the last transition, Apple only gave one major OS update (OS 10.5 in October 2007) to PowerPC macs after Intel macs were announced in June 2005. Since major OS updates happened once per two years back then, and they happen annually now, perhaps this time Apple will give two updates to Intel macs.
However, I think the software subscription model might be a double-edged sword for transition speed. Yes, companies are less likely to abandon Intel mac customers paying a monthly fee. That means though, those Intel mac customers did not buy $200-$700 licenses that may tie them down to Intel hardware, and they do not have to pay $250 to update to an ARM version. So, they are more free to switch to ARM macs and use the ARM version for the same monthly fee, shrinking the percentage of Intel mac software users more quickly than otherwise.
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True, and I'm pretty sure all these subscription model software are also busy talking to the mothership letting the developer know the % of macs of using ARM. Once they see Intel Mac usage crashing they'll bail out sooner.
based on past events (including the power-pc to intel move) and average buying habits I would expect a Mac bought today would be replaced by the buyer before Apple made them obsolete, around 5 years is the most we tend to keep them.
The thing is that there are a ton of people buying the models that are sold by the folks that only keep them for 5 years.
Doesn’t make sense. I get that there is a group of users that have replaced their laptops with iPad Pros, but most people who go for a MBP actually need a laptop for their workflow OR they prefer the convenient chassis that a laptop offers over multiple devices combined together to form what is basically a laptop experience.
If one is to look for a stopgap and can get by without the additional power in an MBP, wouldn’t the MBA be a better suggestion, a refurb from Apple (MBP/MBA), or even a gently used machine (if you really want to put the least amount of dollars in - with hopefully no issues arising)?
EDIT: Should have stated macOS vs iPadOS for their workflow
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Someone posted either in this thread or in another forum that maybe the MBP with the 8th gen processor could be the one that gets updated to the A series first. That makes sense to me.
The advantages for going ARM right out of the gate are, in my opinion: Increased Apple ecosystem effects for users who are deeply in the ecosystem. Much better battery life and less heat/fan noise like you said (you say it like it's not important) while also potentially having more performance specifically in relation to how much energy is used and heat is generated. Not the same thing as it just outperforming Intel.
I personally would be really excited to take an ARM Macbook to work, forget my charger at home, and actually truly not be concerned by that. ARM Macs could potentially be efficient enough to not have your charger, all day, and you be able to do anything you normally would do short of high end power user stuff (and even then it'd be longer than you would be able to with Intel). I think that does help at home too, it simply just means more time able to be spent untethered and more time with the device directly on your lap without feeling like there's an oven on your lap. That's pretty helpful to me.
Thunderbolt compatibility may not matter if they use USB 4. USB 4 and Thunderbolt 3/4 are identical in charging speed and data transfer. Thunderbolt 4 and USB 4 are literally just meant to merge the two standards. AV1 hardware decoding i don't think would be much of an issue. In current Macs, the T2 chip handles H.265/HEVC decoding and i think whatever new form the T2 takes (T3?) will probably handle AV1, though likely not on day 1, but no one's really using AV1 yet anyway other than some Youtube videos. So that's a non issue in the short term too.
I bought the 2020 13" high-end version when it got released as I knew it would be the last x86 MacBook Pro. If I wanted an ARM MacBook Pro, I have an iPad Pro for that.
Well. There was no doom and gloom back then atleast in terms of performance and power efficiency. Actually, those relying on old PPC apps were pretty much only ones. Pretty much all the laptop forks here loved the transition. Remember when we all were dreaming about a G5 laptop? I still remember those super thick g5 powerbook renderings.
Although I use variety of platforms including both Mac and Windows, I really welcome what this transition to Arm can bring to Apple’s ecosystem. For me, Mac is my personal machine with all my pic library and music library, etc. Arm switch will pretty much combine greatness of ios and ipados with Mac. I can’t really wait.
The only thing I’m worried is Apple’s muddy picture from their introduction. What’s the performance? What about their dgpu roadmap?(if any?). Are all Arm chips from now on is going to have igpu only and share ram with cpu? What about their Xeon and nVidia/Radeon counterpart? You know, just vague description of “Apple Silicon” and A12Z as test machine doesn’t really cut it for me yet.
Installing a graphics card that supports Metal on a 2008 MacPro is straightforward and you can install macOS Catalina (confirmed) as well as macOS BS (probably).
I know that you can put a Metal Supported graphics card into a 2008 Mac Pro. I'm saying it's not officially supported by Apple. Also, considering that Mac is easily bested by lower-end Macs that run Catalina slowly, my guess is that Catalina or Big Sur on a 2008 Mac Pro isn't going to be fun. It's a nice hack though!
On the contrary, I would say it holds up very well against current offerings and there are absolutely no issues running Catalina on it ... I expect this will be the same for the upcoming BS. If not, Catalina will be supported for two more years.
New silicon when we know it is not an exact science. ARM based Macs may well be a force to contend with in the future but straight out of the gate? I don't think I would risk it, the transition will take time with the possibility of a lot of short term pain. I have been there and done it. 20 years in the semiconductor industry with ground breaking experience in Bluetooth and WiFi. It will be a rocky road for a while.
Yeah, as an owner of a Core Duo 20" Mac, that first year was an adventure. I had just come from an iMac G3 Everything was super fast. Tiger on Intel was faster than Tiger on PowerPC ever was. But most of my apps were not native for at least another year and a half and while Rosetta 1 did its best, there were many things that needed to be native. That and it wasn't long before the Core 2 Duo Macs that I probably should've waited for had come out.
I don't need to be an early adopter here. But I will be following the advent of these new Macs closely...
You may be right, you probably are, but should notional future value be a consideration when buying a computer?
Spud's Law: Today's top tech = tomorrow's junk.
With Apple it is though, take a look around at all the threads being started since Apple announce ARM, people are concerned about future value as they are so used to the secondary market for Apple devices providing good returns, and they do.
I don't see it. Apple products have always held their after market value even when new software releases come which don't support old devices and new hardware arrives. Who cares what the processor is really? Intel, AMD, ARM all the future talk will be about reliability, thermal issues, GPU failures, keyboards blah blah blah. Whatever the processor is will quickly be lost in the noise of other issues.
Fact. If you want an Apple product and you can't afford the latest greatest you will buy a used product and the market will stay strong. In fact when things get a little sticky with the ARM based products the residual value of the older products may rise.
I wish I didn't have to say that having worked in Cambridge UK for many years and have many old friends working at ARM but it may well come true.
Fact. If you want an Apple product and you can't afford the latest greatest you will buy a used product and the market will stay strong. In fact when things get a little sticky with the ARM based products the residual value of the older products may rise.
I wish I didn't have to say that having worked in Cambridge UK for many years and have many old friends working at ARM but it may well come true.
I really wouldn't worry about it, Apple and the many developers using the platform will release Intel builds of their applications for years to come. Software and services is core to Apples future profitability. They're not about to turn their back on revenue streams from a user base of literally millions of devices.
I suspect the current Intel Apple's lifecycle will follow the same path as all other legacy Apple hardware e.g. legacy to obsolete. It will be the hardware capabilities of Intel based devices and the eventual size of the Apple silicon user base years ahead that will define when Intel is no longer supported.
I suspect the current Intel Apple's lifecycle will follow the same path as all other legacy Apple hardware e.g. legacy to obsolete. It will be the hardware capabilities of Intel based devices and the eventual size of the Apple silicon user base years ahead that will define when Intel is no longer supported.
I completely agree it will be a transition it makes no business sense to do anything else. So back to the OP's question. Don't wait, buy what you need now and in the future when you need to buy again maybe its an ARM driven Mac.
Of course wait at least 5 to 6 years as Mac support for your software will last that long....................
Of course wait at least 5 to 6 years as Mac support for your software will last that long....................