Doom 3 for Mac... Still Coming

[Mav451]

9800pro's are at around $200 right now, you could get cheaper by shopping around a bit. A great value right now is with the standard GeForce 6800 non-ultra. At $300, it offers a noticable performance increase over the Radeon 9800pro, and even the XT. That extra hundred dollars goes along way for getting a card that will last you a bit longer. Feed that 3200+ properly (I take it from the M description that it's overclocked?)

The word you left out is overclocked enough

Yeah, I guess that sounds like a good option. I was considering either 9800 or higher or the 6xxx series (as the FX5xxx series absolutely pales in comparison to the 6 series). Ha, to be honest, I upgraded from my Antec 430 to a Enermax 460 (jump from 20A to 33A on the +12v) just for that purpose.

 

[isgoed]

<rant>
I am sick and tired of all those idiots who think you'll need a G5 with a 6800 to play it! It plays acceptabley on AN 800MHZ PENTIUM 3 WITH A GEFORCE 2 MX!!! I know this because I have played the unoptimised, work-in-progress alpha version that leaked out. I can personally guarantee it will work on any 800MHz Mac with a Geforce 3 or higher. No Dual 2.5Ghz G5. No GeForce 6800 XT.

Now please, drop it. My current powerbook will be able to play it just fine, at full resolution (TiBook 800). If it doesn't, I'll eat my hat.
</rant>

I'm just glad that it's coming out soon. The only game that actually will need a GeForce 6800 or higher is Unreal 3 - which is scheduled to come out in about 2005/6.

As for dual CPU support, I think every ID game has this as an option (I know Quake 3 and it's derivatives do).

You've been bashed already. But do you honestly believe that a ATI Mobility Radeon 7500 32 MB will play the game? You will play it at 320x240 allright. Original DooM Resolution! . Do you want ketchup with that hat?

you really dont know what you are talking about. a brand new 1.25ghz is NOT "definitely low end for this game and only playable on the lowest setting". that is bull. i bet d3 will pretty good on my 1.25GHz/mobility radeon 9600. maybe medium settings, i know it will be playable on low if it comes to that. everyone thinks that d3 is like a total beast only playable on a dual 2.5GHz G5. not the case.

I do not know what i am talking about? I'll give you my resumé

• I played Doom Alpha (640x480, dynamic shadows on, no compressed textures, No AA, No AF). I got 15fps average and it dropped to less than 1fps when an enemy appeared, probably due to the sound engine that couldn't cope because i have SDRAM. (PC: Athlon 1200mhz, geforce4200Ti, 256mb SDRAM)
• I have been visiting planetdoom.com regularly for a year now
• I daily visit tweakers.net (dutch hardwaresite) and read all messages about videocards
• i am a game developer (I recently made the same physics engine as DooM3 uses ( http://revaro.spymac.net/BInariesPE.zip ))

Now, I didn't make up the system requirements. The minimum 1.5Ghz pentium requirement is stated by PCGamer. See the posts I made on the thread: ( https://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=936311#post936311 ). This is by the way a newspost I submitted, so if it wasn't for me you wouldn't even be on this post.
And your powerbook really only has the minimum specs for DooM3. It plays Warcraft3 and unreal2004 just at low setting. How do you expect DooM3 will play. The G4 processor in the powerbook clearly can't handle the need of the Radeon mobility. (See benchmarks on http://www.barefeats.com/al15b.html about the mobility radeon).

well then again, we all really should stop presuming, because it all depends on how well the final game is written. i KNOW there will be alti-vec support, because all new games have it. its pretty much the only thing that makes new games playable on macs. 64 bit support, MAYBE. if john carmak really wants to make a good game, then it will have 64 bit support for macs and windows.

You HOPE, it will have altivec support, because withouth it, the game will be unplayable on a G4. That's why i think that if you want to do good to this game, you should get a G5. The G5 (in an iMac or Tower) has the potential to really play this game in full glory. A dual G4 might do the trick. Carmack wants to make this game as polished as the PC version. For a G4 this means a whole lot of optimizing and this will take long and might run it at just slightly better setting than minimum (and this certainly NOT DEFINES as polished as the PC version). Mind you; medium spec is (2.4GhzP4 or equivalent, 1GB RAM, Geforce5950 or Radeon 9800 Pro/XT). You will be able to play DooM3, but don't expect anything more than 640x480, low texture quality, low sound quality (<=especially low sound (unless you have a dual G4)). That's why i recommend to put much more focus on the G5. IBM's compliler saves J. Carmack a lot of work and enables altivec optmimization and 64 bit support in one go.

PCI-Express in an imac? HAHAHAHAHHAHAHA ROFL! the NEWEST, GREATEST intel mobos have pci-express, not the $1,000 dell POS'es. or $1,000 Apple POS'es

You are only laughing about your own foolishness. True that at this moment only intel has PCI-express. Your costs argument has nothing to do with it. Current PCI-express motherboards only costs about 20$ more than without PCI-express. And if apple wants to make an iMac design that will lasts 3 years, I wouldn't be suprised that they go for PCI-express (If they make the graphics card upgradable).

By the way:
ROFL = rolling on the floor laughing
POS = Point of Sale (A pay-desk is meant by this. Clearly you don't know what you are talking about)

 

[Nermal]

Doom Legacy
http://legacy.newdoom.com/

Full OSX opengl implementation of the original doom engine. You can throw any wad files you have at it and they'll run perfectly. You can even add things like 3d models and the like to it. Gotta love the gaming community; throw us some source code and we scramble on it like a fumbled football.

Ooh, new version

I wonder whether Final Doom works properly now.

 

[AidenShaw]

PCIe (PCI Express) is not the same as PCI-X, not at all

PCI-Express in an imac? HAHAHAHAHHAHAHA ROFL! the NEWEST, GREATEST intel mobos have pci-express, not the $1,000 dell POS'es. or $1,000 Apple POS'es

Actually, the Dell Optiplex GX280 has PCI Express at $877 with an ATI Radeon X300 SE PCIe x16 64MB graphics card, DVI w/VGA adapter, TV-out....


Also, another post confused PCI Express (the new standard that is rapidly pushing AGP to the wayside) with the older PCI-X standard used in the Power Mac and many other systems.

PCI-X is more or less the old PCI standard with the clock bumped up as high as 133 MHz (from the original 33 MHz).

PCI Express is a new multi-lane serial interconnect (with quite a few similarities to HyperTransport) with far greater bandwidth and scalability than PCI-X. Unlike HyperTransport, though, you'll find native PCIe cards that will plug into PCIe slots on the mobos.

For example, here's a Mellanox PCI Express InfiniBand card:

http://www.mellanox.com/products/hca.html


Check out http://www.intel.com/technology/pciexpress/devnet/, in particular the PDF link "What is PCI Express", for more info.

 

[Damek]

By the way:
POS = Point of Sale (A pay-desk is meant by this. Clearly you don't know what you are talking about)

The person clearly doesn't know what they are talking about, but FYI, POS can also stand for "Piece Of Shlt" - and I'm pretty sure that's the use the person intended.

 

[notmyname21]

New iBook from Apple or wait for 10.3.5??

I just bought an iBook G4 1.07 GHz 512 Mb, and games like UT2004, Tony Hawk Pro Skater 4 and Kelly Slater Pro Surfer shows bad graphics and freezes after a while and I'm left with a forced restart. Apple said they would send me a new computer, but, should I just wait for 10.3.5 or downgrade to 10.3.3?

Help much appreciated!

Hopefully 10.3.5 will fix the FX5200 performance problems 10.3.4 created so I'll have a small chance of being able to run this on my PB.

 

[isgoed]

Todd Hollenshead, CEO of id Software, gives his recomendation for the system requirements:

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/tech/weekly/2690450

It confirms what was told by PCGamer

 

[grabberslasher]

And your powerbook really only has the minimum specs for DooM3. It plays Warcraft3 and unreal2004 just at low setting. How do you expect DooM3 will play.

What the hell are you talking about? Warcraft 3 and Unreal 2k4 play at FULL graphics and resolution on my powerbook.

Warcraft 3 never goes less than 60 and Unreal only when I have 16 characters on screen.

And as I previously said, Doom3 was planned to have an FPS limiter so it can't go past 30fps. So in that respect, my 40fps in Unreal is quite adequate.

 

[blueBomber]

I just bought an iBook G4 1.07 GHz 512 Mb, and games like UT2004, Tony Hawk Pro Skater 4 and Kelly Slater Pro Surfer shows bad graphics and freezes after a while and I'm left with a forced restart. Apple said they would send me a new computer, but, should I just wait for 10.3.5 or downgrade to 10.3.3?

Help much appreciated!

you say after a while, that leads me to believe it may be a heat related issue (NOT POSITIVE). Usually if your computer equipment is overheating, it exhibits freezes, graphic corruptions, or even horrible slowdowns (as evidenced by running a P4 without a HS+Fan at Toms Hardware). If you are not already, try running games while your laptop is resting on a table or some other flat surface, making sure that the fan ports are unobstructed. Alternativly, the fans in your ibook may not be working properly (not coming on when they are supposed to), that is an Applecare issue.

 

[notmyname21]

Todd Hollenshead, CEO of id Software, gives his recomendation for the system requirements:

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/tech/weekly/2690450

It confirms what was told by PCGamer

Well, the question was more of a software problem question then one about system requirements. I've read e.g on apple discussions that 10.3.4 severely cripples the 3D graphics, and I wanted to check with DGFan that wrote something about 10.3.5 fixing some FX5200 problem, if this was the case.

Regards

 

[notmyname21]

you say after a while, that leads me to believe it may be a heat related issue (NOT POSITIVE). Usually if your computer equipment is overheating, it exhibits freezes, graphic corruptions, or even horrible slowdowns (as evidenced by running a P4 without a HS+Fan at Toms Hardware). If you are not already, try running games while your laptop is resting on a table or some other flat surface, making sure that the fan ports are unobstructed. Alternativly, the fans in your ibook may not be working properly (not coming on when they are supposed to), that is an Applecare issue.

My "after a while" = only a couple of minutes, which shouldn't be enough to heat it up too much, right? And I always have my computer on a flat table. And Kelly Slater Pro Surfer only works at the lowest resolution, and even in this case the graphics are horrible, already from the start. See the attached image. It's bad, taken with a cellphone.

 

[blueBomber]

I would say it is more than likely a hardware issue then. But just to be sure (and to not go through the hassle of not having a laptop for a week or so), try downgrading the os is possible. It might clear it up, or it might not. If it persists, I would call Apple immediatly.

 

[notmyname21]

I would say it is more than likely a hardware issue then. But just to be sure (and to not go through the hassle of not having a laptop for a week or so), try downgrading the os is possible. It might clear it up, or it might not. If it persists, I would call Apple immediatly.

Cool, thx for your advise. I'm in Ithaca right now and will be leaving for Sweden in two weeks so if the problem still persists after the downgrade I'll have to fix this with Applecare back home though.

 

[isgoed]

What the hell are you talking about? Warcraft 3 and Unreal 2k4 play at FULL graphics and resolution on my powerbook.

Warcraft 3 never goes less than 60 and Unreal only when I have 16 characters on screen.

I don't know why i even bother to respond to your remarks, but just to prove my right and don't get other people's hope up here goes:

ok, warcraft 3 is really good playable on a mac, i don't disagree on that (allthough i couldn't find fps on the internet).

I looked for the unreal tournament benchmarks on barefeats.com an the only test it got more than 25fps was in flyby, which is basically a nonsense test.

The tests are:
UT2004

PB 1.33 Rad9600 (800x600) Medium "Bridgeoffate" 23FPS
PB 1.33 Rad9600 (1024x768) High "Bridgeoffate" 24FPS
PB 1.33 Rad9600 (1600x1024) High "Bridgeoffate" wouldn't run
PB 1.33 FX5200 (1024x768) Max FlyBy 45FPS
PB 1.50 Rad9700 (1024x768) Max FlyBy 72FPS
PB 1.33 FX5200 (1024x768) High Botmatch 20FPS
PB 1.50 Rad9700 (1024x768) High Botmatch 24FPS

Sources:
http://www.barefeats.com/pb11.html
http://www.barefeats.com/ut2004.html

So I can explain your '40 FPS' only in one of the following ways:

• You're on drugs
• You can't count
• Your powerbook is blessed by mother teressa

Furhtermore DooM3 is far more advanced than Unreal 2004. It uses pixelshaders a lot and has heavy CPU demands for the AI, sound and physics. People are buying new hardware for this game!

And as I previously said, Doom3 was planned to have an FPS limiter so it can't go past 30fps. So in that respect, my 40fps in Unreal is quite adequate.

You mean: "as I previously incorrectly said". DooM3 is capped at 60fps. Now 30fps is playable enough, but i bet you only get that on the lowest settings.

What i expect is that this is a moment of grief for you and you can't accept it just yet. But accept your loss:

Your powerbook is now part of a group of computers known as the "minimum spec"

 

[shyataroo]

Does Doom 3 Support Hyper Threading Technology? (I am too lazy to look it up) that having been said why doesn't apple use Hyper Threading on the G5? Imagine a Dual G5 3.0ghz with Hyper threading it will run like a Pentium 4 at 10ghz or a Celeron at 30ghz and also I think apple should Get rid of 2 Ram slots to add in a 3rd hard drive (or just replace the 2 250's with 1 of LaCaie's 1TB bigger Drive) I am going on a rant sorry all

 

[blueBomber]

Does Doom 3 Support Hyper Threading Technology? (I am too lazy to look it up) that having been said why doesn't apple use Hyper Threading on the G5? Imagine a Dual G5 3.0ghz with Hyper threading it will run like a Pentium 4 at 10ghz or a Celeron at 30ghz and also I think apple should Get rid of 2 Ram slots to add in a 3rd hard drive (or just replace the 2 250's with 1 of LaCaie's 1TB bigger Drive) I am going on a rant sorry all

it would be cool, but not feasible right now. IBM needs to concentrate on breaking down that mhz wall they've hit right now. And hyper-threading isn't double the processor speed; it's work divided between two processors (just like all dual proc. setups). The system won't run faster than the clock of the chip, but it can crunch double the work at the same time. Hopefully that makes sense.

 

[isgoed]

Does Doom 3 Support Hyper Threading Technology? (I am too lazy to look it up) that having been said why doesn't apple use Hyper Threading on the G5? Imagine a Dual G5 3.0ghz with Hyper threading it will run like a Pentium 4 at 10ghz or a Celeron at 30ghz and also I think apple should Get rid of 2 Ram slots to add in a 3rd hard drive (or just replace the 2 250's with 1 of LaCaie's 1TB bigger Drive) I am going on a rant sorry all

I don't know if DooM3 can actively use Hyperthreading. I do know that John Carmack once said that he didn't like that the xbox 2 will be a multithreaded system. He says that it doesn't fit game development. For hyperthreading on the G5 look for SMT (simultaneous multi threading). It is how IBM call hyperthreading but is currently only enabled in the Power series and not in the ppc970(fx). It will probably com to the mac in the form of the G6. IBM claims it has a 40% speed increase, but don't expect anything spectacular from it for games. Just wait to see some actuall test.

I am not in the market for a powermac, but i would rather have 8 ramslots than 3 hard disks.

 

[clr900]

Well since there seem to be so many experts in this thread, what kind of frame rates should I expect to get on my new dual 2.5 with geforce 6800 ultra?

 

[blueBomber]

Well since there seem to be so many experts in this thread, what kind of frame rates should I expect to get on my new dual 2.5 with geforce 6800 ultra?

Lots
Seriously, nobody knows right now. The game is not out (and who knows how long the Mac version will take). But rest assured that a 2.5 with a 6800 Ultra is going to be awesome for running Doom3. And besides, you can't buy a faster mac than that right now, so it's a moot point.

 

[clr900]

Lots
Seriously, nobody knows right now. The game is not out (and who knows how long the Mac version will take). But rest assured that a 2.5 with a 6800 Ultra is going to be awesome for running Doom3. And besides, you can't buy a faster mac than that right now, so it's a moot point.

....Well.... your a moot point!

 

[blueBomber]

....Well.... your a moot point!

hardy har...

 

[kingtj]

Simultaneous releases

You know, I think this is a bigger question than most people seem to admit!

Even the games that promised "simultaneous release" on both Mac and PC haven't quite lived up to the promises lately. (EG. UT2004, which was in stores for the PC for at least 1-2 weeks before the Mac version. I should know. I was popping in the local CompUSA stores every night after work looking for this one.)

If they don't want the Mac to feel "second rate" with regards to games, they could at least make sure the new titles come out on the SAME DAY for both PC and Mac platforms. Once again, they're doing it with Doom 3. The OS X version will be out later, when they feel "it's ready". In other words, it's been taking the back seat to the PC version which will sell a LOT more copies.

I think the root of the problem is all the outsourcing done for Mac versions of games. With the exception of Blizzard, who seems to write both Mac and PC versions of their titles and releases them as "hybrid" discs (good for them!), these other titles have to be ported/developed by people like MacPlay or Aspyr all the time.

why can't they just release them at the same time? :Q shouldn't be that big a deal these days.

 

[coggie355]

Being a bit of a Doom fan, im a bit worried that its not gonna go well on my powerbook G4 with 32mb VRAM. Does anyone have any clue how i can make the graphics better on it, or do you think ill just have to get another mac...
Cheers

 

[blueBomber]

Being a bit of a Doom fan, im a bit worried that its not gonna go well on my powerbook G4 with 32mb VRAM. Does anyone have any clue how i can make the graphics better on it, or do you think ill just have to get another mac...
Cheers

Don't buy a new Mac!!!! Just drop some money into a pc that is to be used for gaming purposes only. It's going to be cheaper than any Mac that is powerful enough. There is no evil in turning to Windows for gaming; we'll let you come back to the light side when your done playing

and pick up a KVM switch also if you have a desktop Mac. It saves on having another monitor kicking around.

 

[blueBomber]

I think the root of the problem is all the outsourcing done for Mac versions of games. With the exception of Blizzard, who seems to write both Mac and PC versions of their titles and releases them as "hybrid" discs (good for them!), these other titles have to be ported/developed by people like MacPlay or Aspyr all the time.

I agree in a way. Depending on the game there isn't that much code to change to compile a Mac binary. Remember the old Quake3 engine trick? Just download the newest patch for the game, add in your pak files from your purchased cd, and viola! Instant Mac version. ID is releasing the Linux binaries online, just add in the files from the pc version. This way, they still sell a copy of the software, the Linux people get their version, and ID only had to press and send one version of the software to retail. If it's possible, they should do the same thing for the Mac version.