Downgraders: Why?

Discussion in 'Mac OS X Lion (10.7)' started by spidey3, Jul 25, 2011.

  1. spidey3 macrumors regular

    Jul 1, 2010
    I'm seeing a lot of notes here about people wanting to downgrade from Lion back to Snow Leopard - and frankly, it seems to me that most of it is a bunch of wining about nothing, really showing:

    1. A lack of understanding of the new functionality
    2. A lack of willingness to take the time to learn the new behaviour
    3. A failure to understand that the new functionality can be re-configured to act the way it used to
    4. 3rd-party software vendor's failure to keep up with technology (notably: Quicken still requiring Rosetta, and thus incompatible with Lion)
    5. Me please pay more attention to me because me, myself and I should be the center of attention
    So I ask: Please respond with REAL reasons why you need to switch back to SL...

    "It must be remembered that there is nothing more difficult to plan, more doubtful of success, nor more dangerous to manage than a new system. For the initiator has the enmity of all who would profit by the preservation of the old institution and merely lukewarm defenders in those who gain by the new ones. " - Niccolò Machiavelli

  2. TPadden macrumors 6502a

    Oct 28, 2010
    A simple reason: If it isn't broke don't fix it......;)

    and the programmers corollary: If it isn't broke fix it until it is :p!
  3. derbothaus macrumors 601


    Jul 17, 2010
    Heat (+10ºC at idle) and I take issues with "dumbing down" the user experience. Launchpad is completely unnecessary unless your only Mac experience is an iPhone. The extra animations for pretty much everything are superfluous and annoying under long periods. Apple has locked out even more customization options from the internals. Address Book and iCal are design disasters. Mail takes more than 125% CPU to index it's mail when received. Spaces is gone and Mission Control is, again, a simple dumbed down version with no benefits. I'll upgrade eventually but will be waiting till 10.7.2 or later. Maybe some stuff will get changed. I'm lucky I don't need a new Mac anytime soon.
  4. spidey3 thread starter macrumors regular

    Jul 1, 2010
    I see only a fews item here which seems to me to be really valid (heat, Mail cpu utilization). I agree that for the risk averse waiting for 10.7.2 might be a good.

    • Don't like launchpad? Fine - don't use it.
    • Don't like the animations? Don't look at them.
    • Really, still don't like the animations? Google for instructions to disable them.
    • I felt the same way about Mission Control -- until I used it for a week. Just had to deal with the learning curve [especially when combined with use of the Application Windows function]
    • Don't like new Address / iCal? They were crap to begin with compared to other tools anyway. Now they are a bit better, but still not as good as other options [I am still using the GMail web interface - it's slow, but it supports all of the features I want].
  5. Simplicated macrumors 65816


    Sep 20, 2008
    Waterloo, Ontario, Canada
    This post has alienated users who downgraded at the very beginning.

    #1, #2, #3: Most people know what they are doing, know what the new features are but are frustrated, so they chose to downgrade to Snow Leopard. Some features are irreversible (Mission Control as opposed to all-window Exposé and Spaces, for one) in Lion.

    #6: You're just getting preemptively defensive.

    Sorry, I find this post actually offensive to downgraders. Oh before you bash me, let me tell you, I'm also a Lion user. :)
  6. spidey3 thread starter macrumors regular

    Jul 1, 2010
    It is intended to call into question a faulty thought process. If people choose to be offended by it, so be it.

  7. Mikey86uk macrumors 6502

    Jul 3, 2010
    Im like Lions new features, but not liking:

    1. Takes longer to boot.
    2. Crashes every time i watch a vid in quicktime or youtube, etc
    3. Doesn't feel as responsive as SL at times*
    4. Keep losing WiFi every now and then, was fine with SL
    apart from that yeh, i like it.

    the only reason i won't downgrade is, as soon as i do, there will be a fix out!
  8. spidey3 thread starter macrumors regular

    Jul 1, 2010
    Sounds like you have some other problem [most don't see these issues]. Did you do a clean install, or did you upgrade in place?
  9. Mikey86uk macrumors 6502

    Jul 3, 2010
    upgrade, and i shouldn't need to do a clean install.

    a lot of people seem to have most the issues I'm having! its seriously annoying!
  10. rbcp macrumors newbie

    Mar 25, 2011
    I'm new to the forums, and relatively new to Mac, so forgive my ignorance, but what is the 'heat' issue.

    I am assuming this is the machine getting physically ho? If so, is this unique to Macbooks. I have an iMac.
  11. TPadden macrumors 6502a

    Oct 28, 2010
    At least with your own self-diagnosis in posting this thread you nailed it with:

    #5: Me please pay more attention to me because me, myself and I should be the center of attention

  12. spidey3 thread starter macrumors regular

    Jul 1, 2010
    What a cute puppy! :D
  13. ggg05a macrumors regular


    Jan 11, 2009
    Unless not sending attached PDF's in mail is new functionality, the uslessness of spaces preview in mission control is "added functionality" I'd gladly downgrade. This is worse than the 10.5.2 + Core 2 MBP fiasco.
  14. N10248 macrumors 6502a


    Jun 11, 2004
    Essex, U.K.
    Here's my reasons for going back...

    - "Reopen Windows next time" checkbox on shutdown restart menu.
    - No sleep at all with network sharing on
    - Safari 5.1 no easy manual cookie control
    - no 4 finger "show desktop" gesture - the replacement gesture is awkward
    - no expose ALL windows
    - removal of separate safari download window
    - hiding of Library folder - easily fixed but still annoying
    - no rosetta - i have no PPC apps but 1 intel app I use (FFmpegX) has a minor old PPC component which causes problems now.
    - the way "Arrange icons by" has become "clean up by" and changed the way it behaves.
    - CMD + SHIFT + L in safari is no longer search text on google, but now show the reading list thing - took ages to change the commands around on that one to get the search back.

    I'm happy to be back on snow leopard, ive wasted 2 whole days on this OS, 1 day to do a fresh Lion install and put all my applications and stuff back on then another whole day to get Snow leopard back on and everything how i had it before.

    The thing that really worries me is that the new macbook airs and mac mini are INCAPABLE of booting snow leopard, and the next iMacs and macbooks will most likely be the same. So i may have to buy my next mac early and get a current iMac so i can still use Snow Leopard
  15. derbothaus macrumors 601


    Jul 17, 2010
    To me they are all valid. You asked... I just don't feel I need to do extra work to my OS just to get it to act like the previous one. I already have to hack the crap out of 10.6 to get something usable. Unfortunately "Don't like the animations? Don't look at them." is a ridiculous statement. They happen at every single app load. It feels like the app opens slower to let the animation happen but them no animation on closing. So closing feels faster than opening. You kids can drink the kool-aid. I am a power user who feels slighted by certain iOS changes. Underpinnings that make sense are welcome. Graphical changes for their own sake are not. Also these animations and window sizing from all angles really echoes of a "gasp" Win clone.
  16. Beavix macrumors 6502a


    Dec 1, 2010
    Here is my reason (check out the scores on the red bar).

    Attached Files:

  17. tkermit macrumors 68040


    Feb 20, 2004
    Does it feel four times slower to you?
  18. ggg05a macrumors regular


    Jan 11, 2009
  19. maflynn Moderator


    Staff Member

    May 3, 2009
    I think your logic is flawed, believe it or not, many people here fully understand the functionality and took the time to understand the functionality but yet still found it lacking.

    Just because you're content with Lion doesn't mean everyone is
  20. Kariya, Jul 25, 2011
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2011

    Kariya macrumors 68000


    Nov 3, 2010
    I played with the dev prevs and GM for weeks but i just couldn't come around to liking it. To me its just a lot of fluff features and lets update this/that just because. Some (especially the security ones) are welcome but;

    Animations = Meh. Can become jarring but i'll deal.

    Launchpad = Meh. I understand its to make OS X accessible to the average iOS user. But for people like me it's simply useless. even more so given that there is very little connection between it and Finder.

    Resume = Annoying. Simply because turning it off doesn't fully turn it off in all cases...yet. That and if you're not careful you can find yourself in some embarrassing/awkward situations. (No not porn)

    Multi-touch = Meh. They already had the basics covered since Leopard. The new ones are just superfluous and even outright confusing.

    Scrolling = Frivolous. It's a desktop computer not an iOS device. Why reinvent the wheel.

    Mission Control = Again they nailed desktop organisation in Leopard, ruined it slightly in Snow Leopard and (not in a good way) in Lion.


    -The way it currently handles multiple monitor setups is laughable. Your secondary screens are rendered useless once you use a fullscreen app. With laptop/ext-display setups, you can't use open clamshell mode anymore. So you leave your laptop screen on or fry your computer slowly but surely.

    -Volume/Brightness control can no longer be finely controlled like in SL (Shift+Opt brightness/sound is dead...huge feature for me and now it's MIA)

    Lastly, and perhaps above all the major reason i switched back is; performance is currently subpar to Snow Leopard. GUI can be glitchy and it uses more resources and thus generates more heat and kills battery life.

    It's good OS update overall and I know i'll largely adapt to all these eventually because 'it's the future' and all the revert-back options we have now will disappear soon enough (This is Apple after all)

    But i will only do that once Apple churn out some big updates to address the performance issues. Then i'll upgrade...maybe. For now though Snow Leopard>Lion (for my usage pattern anyway)
  21. Steve's Barber macrumors 6502a

    Jul 5, 2011
    According to whom? You? LOL!

    Why does it bother you so much that folks have downgraded? I'll upgrade to 10.7.1. Not necessarily because I prefer it over SL... just because I'd better get used to it if I want iCloud in the fall.

    The crap some of you people bog down on. :)
  22. Beavix macrumors 6502a


    Dec 1, 2010
    Yes, that's why I did those benchmarks.

    The good thing is I identified the cause of the slowness of the GUI on my Mac mini. It's Bluetooth. I can reproduce the problem and I've sent a bug report to Apple. Until they fix this issue I am forced to use a wired Mighty Mouse, or go back to Snow Leopard.
  23. spidey3 thread starter macrumors regular

    Jul 1, 2010
    I'm sorry, but with the exception of the heat / performance related issues and a few actual bugs I am seeing posted here, most of the complaints seem to be what most would consider to be minor gripes about changes in UI behavior.

    Some seem to be complaints about changes which actually make sense -- for instance, does it really make sense for a machine which is used to share a network to other machines to go to sleep? How will it be able to provide the resource if it is sleeping?

    Seriously, are these really worth the trouble of downgrading?
  24. Heston macrumors regular

    Feb 13, 2007
    ANY of these issues would cause me to want to downgrade
  25. tkermit macrumors 68040


    Feb 20, 2004
    Huh, that's...weird... :confused:

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