I am considering a downgrade for the very fact that the latest version of CoolBook is not supported by Lion.
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Downgraders: Why?
- Thread starter spidey3
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I only upgraded because apple's history of not supporting drivers update in previous releases of Mac OS X such as the evolving graphics drivers.. All of you are stuck at OpenGL 2.1/2.0 in snow leopard, OpenGL 3.2 is supported in lion and OpenGL 4.1 support is coming
source: http://arstechnica.com/apple/guides/2011/07/does-apple-still-care-about-creative-pros.ars/2
source: http://arstechnica.com/apple/guides/2011/07/does-apple-still-care-about-creative-pros.ars/2
I haven't needed to downgrade to SL because I never upgraded to Lion. SL works for me and I know what to expect from it.
I only hope iCloud/MobileMe will be accessible with SL down the road. If not, that will be the ONLY reason to get me to upgrade to Lion. I would prefer to stay with SL and pay Apple to access iCloud instead of having to upgrade.
I only hope iCloud/MobileMe will be accessible with SL down the road. If not, that will be the ONLY reason to get me to upgrade to Lion. I would prefer to stay with SL and pay Apple to access iCloud instead of having to upgrade.
Why?
It's not that Lion has few bugs. SL wasn't perfect at first either. That's to be expected. Tonight I'm going to revert my MP back to SL for the following reasons;
1. Lion is ugly, from the smaller stoplight buttons to the mono-color icons to that god-awful looking/functioning contact book that fawful looking/functioning calendar. It's the first time I've seen a Mac OS look uglier and less artistic than its predecessors.
2. I want my old Mail back, the whole thing, not just the old look.
3. I really want my old Spaces back. It was smooth, efficient and not too busy looking.
4. I'm not a teenybopper playing with an iToy. I'm using a serious computer for serious tasks so I want a serious OS. A perfectly functioning Lion just doesn't cut it. It even makes Windows 7 look better!
I'll probably keep the MBP on Lion mainly for the full-disk encryption. With most of the iOS-type crap disabled Lion looks a little better on a 15in screen.
It's not that Lion has few bugs. SL wasn't perfect at first either. That's to be expected. Tonight I'm going to revert my MP back to SL for the following reasons;
1. Lion is ugly, from the smaller stoplight buttons to the mono-color icons to that god-awful looking/functioning contact book that fawful looking/functioning calendar. It's the first time I've seen a Mac OS look uglier and less artistic than its predecessors.
2. I want my old Mail back, the whole thing, not just the old look.
3. I really want my old Spaces back. It was smooth, efficient and not too busy looking.
4. I'm not a teenybopper playing with an iToy. I'm using a serious computer for serious tasks so I want a serious OS. A perfectly functioning Lion just doesn't cut it. It even makes Windows 7 look better!
I'll probably keep the MBP on Lion mainly for the full-disk encryption. With most of the iOS-type crap disabled Lion looks a little better on a 15in screen.
This might be a good time to start looking into a new HP or maybe start running linux...because all of the things you described are here to stay...so you either can stick with SL for the rest of your life and eventually outdate your mac into disfunction, or you can just deal with changes and understand that things can't stay the same forever.
I have a 24" display and a 20" display and I think it looks beautiful.
It worked.
I just finished reverting my MP back to SL as of the day before I installed Lion. After booting via the install disk I selected restore from Time Machine and picked the day.
Four hours later it was restored. About six or so software updates SL is running perfectly. It's so nice to have Spaces, Mail and Calendar back to "normal".
I'm really impressed how well Mac OS performed the system restore.
I just finished reverting my MP back to SL as of the day before I installed Lion. After booting via the install disk I selected restore from Time Machine and picked the day.
Four hours later it was restored. About six or so software updates SL is running perfectly. It's so nice to have Spaces, Mail and Calendar back to "normal".
I'm really impressed how well Mac OS performed the system restore.
Only sometimes
Maybe about 50% of the time I like some of the new features.
The maiming of Spaces was a devastating blow.
The animations are normally slow and when they try to speed uplike when I'm trying to find a Spacethey cause my keyboard commands to be ignored, so I end up calling a different Space twice.
Resume is annoying because now I have to go to each red traffic light and click it to close the windowif not then the next time I open that program I'll have an extra window! Sometimes I'll end up with three windows, when I only wanted one. The other one's were just scratch paper windows!
Activating the wifi results in me having to wait about 5 minutes for a network to be detected.... The router is right next to my computer.... :/
Maybe about 50% of the time I like some of the new features.
The maiming of Spaces was a devastating blow.
The animations are normally slow and when they try to speed uplike when I'm trying to find a Spacethey cause my keyboard commands to be ignored, so I end up calling a different Space twice.
Resume is annoying because now I have to go to each red traffic light and click it to close the windowif not then the next time I open that program I'll have an extra window! Sometimes I'll end up with three windows, when I only wanted one. The other one's were just scratch paper windows!
Activating the wifi results in me having to wait about 5 minutes for a network to be detected.... The router is right next to my computer.... :/
Mine lives in clamshell and open clamshell mode, as a matter of fact it's even better. You no longer need to put the computer to sleep to use it, just close the lid wait untill the dock pops in on your external open back up
+10000 i got 6 hours in SL with cookbook and 4.5-5 hours without cookbook. now without cookbook in lion I'm getting 2.5 hours. -_________-...this is on a macbook air 11.6 inch..if i was okay with 2.5 hour battery life i would have gotten a windows machine for half the price
from a clean install:
Safari scrolling in full screen (on my Mac Pro 1,1) is rather choppy.
Booting takes longer.
Ctrl-scroll screen zoom is basically broken at the moment, have to re-activate on every single boot.
Keeps forgetting my "un-natural" scroll direction, have to reset in sys prefs.
Keeps forgetting my keyboard layout.
Keeps losing my bluetooth mouse on boot.
Widgets no longer appear OVER the screen, so I can't refer back to the desktop (a simple example - when using the calculator widget)
Quicktime 7 was no where to be seen and needed to re-download.
Oh yes, and Lion is making my machine run hotter.
as for preferred usability:
iCal and Address book look like crap (fixed)
Hidden Library folder (again easily fixed)
Launchpad is utterly pointless.
Lion broke 'Medialink' and the update is using 350% of my processors(Although it forced me to look for another solution and 'Playback' is that for me. I know that's really a 3rd party issue)
That's all I can think of, off the top of my head.
I have one HD for Lion and one for SL, so I'm flipping between the two at the moment, and probably will be for the next few months.
Safari scrolling in full screen (on my Mac Pro 1,1) is rather choppy.
Booting takes longer.
Ctrl-scroll screen zoom is basically broken at the moment, have to re-activate on every single boot.
Keeps forgetting my "un-natural" scroll direction, have to reset in sys prefs.
Keeps forgetting my keyboard layout.
Keeps losing my bluetooth mouse on boot.
Widgets no longer appear OVER the screen, so I can't refer back to the desktop (a simple example - when using the calculator widget)
Quicktime 7 was no where to be seen and needed to re-download.
Oh yes, and Lion is making my machine run hotter.
as for preferred usability:
iCal and Address book look like crap (fixed)
Hidden Library folder (again easily fixed)
Launchpad is utterly pointless.
Lion broke 'Medialink' and the update is using 350% of my processors(Although it forced me to look for another solution and 'Playback' is that for me. I know that's really a 3rd party issue)
That's all I can think of, off the top of my head.
I have one HD for Lion and one for SL, so I'm flipping between the two at the moment, and probably will be for the next few months.
Uh ...... because that's how problems get fixed.
Not one of the OS's mentioned didn't require fixes to correct problems (which are called updates
The problems get fixed by reporting them to Apple, not by whining on a forum.
No thanks. I already have one copy of Windows 7 running on the MP via Bootcamp and another installation of Window 7 running as the only OS on a late 2009 mini.
I can switch back to Lion at any time. I don't anticipate using SL or Lion or W7 or a Mac Pro for the rest of my life. My computer time frame runs no more than one year. That said my MacBook Pro running Lion is almost two and one-half years old.
How are they incapable of booting 10.6? Just get a shared DVD drive and clean install 10.6. I don't think there are any technical reasons why the new machines could not be formatted and then have 10.6 installed.
For me its mostly a preference thing and some very annoying things that will HOPEFULLY be fixed with the updates.
- Boots waaaay slower
- Consistently runs about 10 degrees hotter doing the same activity
- Batter life is awful now
- A lot of preferences have to be changed every time I boot
- MC is a disaster and as much as I like the idea there are some key elements missing, ability to rearrange the items, show minimized apps, ext.
- Mail, Address book, and calendar look like they were designed for a 13 year old (no offence to the younger crowd on here)
To maintain my sanity i'm going back to SL this week and paitently waiting on some of these issues to be fixed.
- Boots waaaay slower
- Consistently runs about 10 degrees hotter doing the same activity
- Batter life is awful now
- A lot of preferences have to be changed every time I boot
- MC is a disaster and as much as I like the idea there are some key elements missing, ability to rearrange the items, show minimized apps, ext.
- Mail, Address book, and calendar look like they were designed for a 13 year old (no offence to the younger crowd on here)
To maintain my sanity i'm going back to SL this week and paitently waiting on some of these issues to be fixed.
I did the same. I too am impressed at Time Machine. Back to Snow Leopard was painless.
Wish it really worked that way ......
Whining is what other people do, when we do it we are making astute observations about other's shortcomings ......
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I'm somewhat with you on Address Book and iCal, but what strikes you as juvenile about Mail? I feel the exact opposite there. Mail is almost all content now and the few GUI elements that still remain look very restrained to me.
I will probably eventually succumb to Lion, after a few bug fix releases, but for now I maintain that Lion feels wholly unintegrated with itself and designed by committee. And sadly, one of the larger voices in the committee seems to be the marketing department, as Apple attempts to shoehorn iOS elements into a desktop environment, regardless of the functionality (or lack of), in the name of branding.
Why I down(up)graded
Things I like about lion:
Mission control
Auto Correct
Things I don't like about lion
I downgraded because I think Lion still sucks:
1. Versions. Most people are smart enough to save documents the way they want. I don't need apple to eat up disk space with versions of documents I will never use.
2. Apple tv can't connect to itunes.
3. random freezes at login
4. broken time machine that wont back up (via usb)
5. random graphics freezes
6. restores applications whether the system preference is checked or not.
7. Launchpad is more work than the applications folder
8. pretty animations for everything slow overall work experience.
Not sure I like the direction apple is taking with this. I think I will stick with my upgrade of Snow Leopard.
Things I like about lion:
Mission control
Auto Correct
Things I don't like about lion
I downgraded because I think Lion still sucks:
1. Versions. Most people are smart enough to save documents the way they want. I don't need apple to eat up disk space with versions of documents I will never use.
2. Apple tv can't connect to itunes.
3. random freezes at login
4. broken time machine that wont back up (via usb)
5. random graphics freezes
6. restores applications whether the system preference is checked or not.
7. Launchpad is more work than the applications folder
8. pretty animations for everything slow overall work experience.
Not sure I like the direction apple is taking with this. I think I will stick with my upgrade of Snow Leopard.
The issue you're facing as we all are is the fact that Lion is the future. Sure you may hold off on 10.7 but at some point you will need to move off of SL. Either because you purchased a new mac, or software you need is not compatible. That day is far off perhaps but still...
I'm on SL and I'll stick with it as long as I can but the writing is on the wall.
My take on the matter, the people who don't like Lion, or who prefer SL to it, have every right to feel that way. Its a personal preference. Attacking them is like windows users attacking mac users because "you can get a better system for less money blah blah blah" while refusing to acknowledge that personal preference plays a role in certain things.
That being said, I DO think people who emphatically state that the OS is broken because they don't like it are guilty of those things you listed. The OS isn't broken. Its clear that the people at Apple, especially Steve Jobs, have a vision for where they want their products to be in the future, and Lion is a step in that direction. If you don't like it, fine thats totally your call, I just hate it when people insist that its actually broken OS because some features have been changed.
On a somewhat unrelated note, I honestly do not understand why Launchpad has gotten so much flack. How is it any different than having an Applications stack on your dock? The only difference is its got a fancy GUI and you can use a gesture to open it up. (yeah there are some little things like no "show in finder" and some other bugs with removing apps, but those don't have anything to do with the core concept) Thats it. People that call it useless...really? Are application stacks useless? No. If you don't like it, don't use it, just keep doing what you were doing, but to attack the concept is, in my opinion, nothing more than an unwillingness to deal with change. And this all actually brings me back to my original point.
That being said, I DO think people who emphatically state that the OS is broken because they don't like it are guilty of those things you listed. The OS isn't broken. Its clear that the people at Apple, especially Steve Jobs, have a vision for where they want their products to be in the future, and Lion is a step in that direction. If you don't like it, fine thats totally your call, I just hate it when people insist that its actually broken OS because some features have been changed.
On a somewhat unrelated note, I honestly do not understand why Launchpad has gotten so much flack. How is it any different than having an Applications stack on your dock? The only difference is its got a fancy GUI and you can use a gesture to open it up. (yeah there are some little things like no "show in finder" and some other bugs with removing apps, but those don't have anything to do with the core concept) Thats it. People that call it useless...really? Are application stacks useless? No. If you don't like it, don't use it, just keep doing what you were doing, but to attack the concept is, in my opinion, nothing more than an unwillingness to deal with change. And this all actually brings me back to my original point.
My only gripe is that Safari 5.1 unloads tabs from memory when he wants and once you click an unloaded tab it reloads the page completely, losing any ajax notifications or chats the page might had.
I did a clean install on my iMac 7,1 and the OS is snappy and working fine, but that issue is killing me because I use Safari a lot.
I did a clean install on my iMac 7,1 and the OS is snappy and working fine, but that issue is killing me because I use Safari a lot.
I've used Leopard, and Snow Leopard and been more than happy with them. I also have an iPad, and after my Swiss Army Knife, it's possibly the most useful 'thing' I own.
But I'm under no illusion that my Macbook and my iPad are two completely different beasties, and that they work (or at least should, imho) in different ways.
I'll confess to being a fully paid up Apple fanboy, so I downloaded Lion on the day of release (4 hours over a 10 meg line!!), and installed it straight away.
More fool me.
Thankfully not so foolish that I hadn't got my TM backups up to date, and taken a bootable copy of SL, courtesy of SuperDuper!
I don't do 'change for changes sake'. I'm fine if something's better, but when it's just 'different', well that hacks me off.
I lived with Lion for three days, spending most of that time trying to find ways to change things back to the way they were under SL, and hoping that there would be enough improvement elsewhere to make the hassle worthwhile.
There wasn't.
The colour scheme / reduced button sizes etc, was just plain annoying. As someone said - was it developed in 1960's Russia?
Autosave. I'll decide when something gets saved, and if I lose 3 hours work because of a crash, well that's my fault and no-one else's. The fact that you couldn't switch it off incensed me.
Ok, you could switch of the auto restore of app windows, but the fact that you had to uncheck the box for desktop restore every single time you shut down was unforgivable.
The screens that 'zoomed out' at you just looked tacky and childish (and slowed things down).
The gazillion different gestures... does anyone find these intuitive? Sure, over time you could probably learn them, but quite frankly I know how to move between apps / click on tabs etc, without having to commit a bunch of seemingly random 'twiddles' to memory.
And as for the ridiculous scrolling... previous posters have covered that.
Launchpad. Great! Beacause how else could I have started my frequently used apps from the desktop? I'm mean, it's not like they're all lined up along the bottom is it...?
Oh wait! Yes they are!
Mission Control? I never felt the need to use Spaces - most of the time I do no more than two or three things at once, and I can manage just fine with Cmd-Tab, but it sounds like those people who were fans of it have been hacked off by an apparent retrograde step.
Full screen? If I'm working on something, I want the toolbar there! Not hidden. In fact the only thing I'd want running 'true' fullscreen is the DVD player, and let me think now...
Oh yes! It already runs full screen in SL!
All in all, plenty that was different, little that was better, and a whole bunch that was worse.
Clearly the marketing guys pulled rank on the techies this time : 'There are millions of people out there who own iPhones, iPads and iPod touches, but who still use a Windows machine. Make OS X just like iOS so we can entice them over, and to hell with the people who like their Mac just the way it is.'
Never been so glad to have taken a backup!
But I'm under no illusion that my Macbook and my iPad are two completely different beasties, and that they work (or at least should, imho) in different ways.
I'll confess to being a fully paid up Apple fanboy, so I downloaded Lion on the day of release (4 hours over a 10 meg line!!), and installed it straight away.
More fool me.
Thankfully not so foolish that I hadn't got my TM backups up to date, and taken a bootable copy of SL, courtesy of SuperDuper!
I don't do 'change for changes sake'. I'm fine if something's better, but when it's just 'different', well that hacks me off.
I lived with Lion for three days, spending most of that time trying to find ways to change things back to the way they were under SL, and hoping that there would be enough improvement elsewhere to make the hassle worthwhile.
There wasn't.
The colour scheme / reduced button sizes etc, was just plain annoying. As someone said - was it developed in 1960's Russia?
Autosave. I'll decide when something gets saved, and if I lose 3 hours work because of a crash, well that's my fault and no-one else's. The fact that you couldn't switch it off incensed me.
Ok, you could switch of the auto restore of app windows, but the fact that you had to uncheck the box for desktop restore every single time you shut down was unforgivable.
The screens that 'zoomed out' at you just looked tacky and childish (and slowed things down).
The gazillion different gestures... does anyone find these intuitive? Sure, over time you could probably learn them, but quite frankly I know how to move between apps / click on tabs etc, without having to commit a bunch of seemingly random 'twiddles' to memory.
And as for the ridiculous scrolling... previous posters have covered that.
Launchpad. Great! Beacause how else could I have started my frequently used apps from the desktop? I'm mean, it's not like they're all lined up along the bottom is it...?
Oh wait! Yes they are!
Mission Control? I never felt the need to use Spaces - most of the time I do no more than two or three things at once, and I can manage just fine with Cmd-Tab, but it sounds like those people who were fans of it have been hacked off by an apparent retrograde step.
Full screen? If I'm working on something, I want the toolbar there! Not hidden. In fact the only thing I'd want running 'true' fullscreen is the DVD player, and let me think now...
Oh yes! It already runs full screen in SL!
All in all, plenty that was different, little that was better, and a whole bunch that was worse.
Clearly the marketing guys pulled rank on the techies this time : 'There are millions of people out there who own iPhones, iPads and iPod touches, but who still use a Windows machine. Make OS X just like iOS so we can entice them over, and to hell with the people who like their Mac just the way it is.'
Never been so glad to have taken a backup!
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If you want to see something REALLY annoying, hold down Shift as you go into Launchpad! Now THAT'S a slow transition. =P