Downgraders: Why?

[roadbloc]

OP: have you even considered the fact that it may be because they just don't like it? Not one size fits everyone, many people will remain to just not gell with a iPad tabletly like OS. Whether they will eventually get used to it or Apple will cater for them in the in the future or they will move onto another OS, I don't know.

Stating people aren't trying hard enough to like Lion is stupid. It is a rather large upgrade in the terms of how OS X is used (not so much in features.) If someone prefers Snow Leopard, they prefer Snow Leopard. Get over it.

 

[kappaknight]

I'm sorry, but with the exception of the heat / performance related issues and a few actual bugs I am seeing posted here, most of the complaints seem to be what most would consider to be minor gripes about changes in UI behavior.

Some seem to be complaints about changes which actually make sense -- for instance, does it really make sense for a machine which is used to share a network to other machines to go to sleep? How will it be able to provide the resource if it is sleeping?

Seriously, are these really worth the trouble of downgrading?

The OS is only a basic tool in which we use to launch other more advanced tools. We don't sit on our computers all day to play with the OS. With that said, if the new OS is is unstable, causing problems in the hardware or software department, reverting back to what worked best is a pretty simple and reasonable fix. Why you feel others need to justify this reason to you personally is beyond me.

 

[A01]

My boot time has increased from about 30 seconds to almost 1 minute. My shutdown time has increased from not even a single second, to about 15 seconds.

And I've currently had it go to sleep randomly 3 times so far, for no reason that I can discover. Twice yesterday and once today.

I did upgrade rather than clean install, so first I'm gonna try a clean install, but if that doesn't fix those two issues, then I'll have to go back to snow leopard.

There are a few other little problems or things I don't like, but those are the two that will be making me switch back if a clean install doesn't solve them.

Edit: Also, my brightness settings keep reseting after every restart, its infuriating.

 

[maflynn]

I'm sorry, but with the exception of the heat / performance related issues and a few actual bugs I am seeing posted here, most of the complaints seem to be what most would consider to be minor gripes about changes in UI behavior.

To you they seem like minor gripes, but to others they impact the overall quality of usage. A great operating system should not get in the way of a user trying to get his work done. Lion in my opinion does get in the way, so instead of changing how I want to work because of Lion, why not change OSX back so I can work as efficiently as possible.

 

[tbayrgs]

A single issue caused be to rollback to SL on both my machines--inability to screen share over my home network. As I usually access my Mac Mini HTPC via screen sharing for anything other than watching my media, this was a deal breaker for me. I have both computers configured exactly as they should be according to the instructions in the OS and spend significant time trying to troubleshoot this issue no luck. The thread I started here seeking the assistance of others shows I'm far from the only one experiencing this issue and the advice I received unfortunately didn't correct the problem.

This feature worked perfectly well under SL and should have continued to do so after an OS upgrade, especially since in theory it didn't require me to change any of my settings so, I'm going to wait an for an update or two and for the time being, just use what works.

 

[spidey3]

The OS is only a basic tool in which we use to launch other more advanced tools. We don't sit on our computers all day to play with the OS. With that said, if the new OS is is unstable, causing problems in the hardware or software department, reverting back to what worked best is a pretty simple and reasonable fix. Why you feel others need to justify this reason to you personally is beyond me.

But isn't this exactly my point? Very few people are REALLY having a performance problem or application misbehavior [and I've no problem with then downgrading or waiting to upgrade until things are fixed]. Most are just complaining about minor UI changes - and that seems silly to me.

Systems evolve. Learn. Adapt. Move on. If we cannot do that, then we are no better than those who are still typing business letters using their IBM Selectric because they can't [or won't] learn how to use a word processor...

Spidey!!!

 

[spidey3]

A single issue caused be to rollback to SL on both my machines--inability to screen share over my home network.

I had this problem at first too. I disabled Remote Management on the server machine, then re-enabled it, and the problem went away.

 

[mark28]

I'm seeing a lot of notes here about people wanting to downgrade from Lion back to Snow Leopard - and frankly, it seems to me that most of it is a bunch of wining about nothing, really showing:

1. A lack of understanding of the new functionality
2. A lack of willingness to take the time to learn the new behaviour
3. A failure to understand that the new functionality can be re-configured to act the way it used to
4. 3rd-party software vendor's failure to keep up with technology (notably: Quicken still requiring Rosetta, and thus incompatible with Lion)
5. Me please pay more attention to me because me, myself and I should be the center of attention

So I ask: Please respond with REAL reasons why you need to switch back to SL...

"It must be remembered that there is nothing more difficult to plan, more doubtful of success, nor more dangerous to manage than a new system. For the initiator has the enmity of all who would profit by the preservation of the old institution and merely lukewarm defenders in those who gain by the new ones. " - Niccolò Machiavelli

Spidey!!!

Because Snow Leopard just works unlike Lion which needs an update.

 

[stevearm]

So I ask: Please respond with REAL reasons why you need to switch back to SL...

Photographer. No pinch to zoom in finder... unacceptable. Back to stable, un-bloated Snow Leopard for me.

Also Resume, autosave, versions, launchpad, cluttered mission control.... all awful, pointless features.

 

[doug in albq]

among many other reasons...

http://kb2.adobe.com/cps/905/cpsid_90508.html

Also, I never downgraded because I was not stupid enough to upgrade for eye-candy and the non-features...

Besides the Adobe issues, I would never upgrade to an OS that gimps performance while bringing on greater stress to the cpu/gpu which adds heat. All this without adding any "real & substantial" new features or optimizations.

My thinking is that this OS will not be usable for true power users until 10.7.4, if ever.

Honestly, the only compelling aspect of Lion is the future iCloud stuff....

 

[gumblecosby]

I played with the dev prevs and GM for weeks but i just couldn't come around to liking it. To me its just a lot of fluff features and lets update this/that just because. Some (especially the security ones) are welcome but;

Animations = Meh. Can become jarring but i'll deal.

Launchpad = Meh. I understand its to make OS X accessible to the average iOS user. But for people like me it's simply useless. even more so given that there is very little connection between it and Finder.

Resume = Annoying. Simply because turning it off doesn't fully turn it off in all cases...yet. That and if you're not careful you can find yourself in some embarrassing/awkward situations. (No not porn)

Multi-touch = Meh. They already had the basics covered since Leopard. The new ones are just superfluous and even outright confusing.

Scrolling = Frivolous. It's a desktop computer not an iOS device. Why reinvent the wheel.

Mission Control = Again they nailed desktop organisation in Leopard, ruined it slightly in Snow Leopard and just...wow (not in a good way) in Lion.

Misc

-The way it currently handles multiple monitor setups is laughable. Your secondary screens are rendered useless once you use a fullscreen app. With laptop/ext-display setups, you can't use open clamshell mode anymore. So you leave your laptop screen on or fry your computer slowly but surely.

-Volume/Brightness control can no longer be finely controlled like in SL (Shift+Opt brightness/sound is dead...huge feature for me and now it's MIA)

Lastly, and perhaps above all the major reason i switched back is; performance is currently subpar to Snow Leopard. GUI can be glitchy and it uses more resources and thus generates more heat and kills battery life.

It's good OS update overall and I know i'll largely adapt to all these eventually because 'it's the future' and all the revert-back options we have now will disappear soon enough (This is Apple after all)

But i will only do that once Apple churn out some big updates to address the performance issues. Then i'll upgrade...maybe. For now though Snow Leopard>Lion (for my usage pattern anyway)

I agree with these points. This is the problem with Lion. You feel like you lost excellent features such as spaces , 10.5 Expose(with hack), consistent multi monitor support, clamshell, etc. .

This aside, I can still work efficiently with Lion and it uses my 4gb of ram well (just don't use safari). Actually, when I use ram intensive programs my old macbook does not beachball as much compared to 10.6.

edit:
Launchpad surprised me. I mapped it to f5 and it has now replaced command-space to launch apps.

 

[AtmChm]

The thing that really worries me is that the new macbook airs and mac mini are INCAPABLE of booting snow leopard, and the next iMacs and macbooks will most likely be the same. So i may have to buy my next mac early and get a current iMac so i can still use Snow Leopard

Is this true?? Why would the new MBA and Mac Minis NOT be able to boot SL?? I've never heard of a mac that could not boot from an older version of an operating system.

My reason for not upgrading most of my machines is the lack of Rosetta. I use a PPC app that is essential to my work. It just seems mean of Apple to cut people off from using Rosetta if you want to. I mean, it was not included in SL, but you could download it if you wanted to. Until there is a 3rd party fix, I will not upgrade to Lion, and even then not sure if I will. I agree with one poster who said the 'eye candy' in Lion is to get iOS users to try Macs. It's not for the regular Mac users.

 

[InuNacho]

Very few people are REALLY having a performance problem or application misbehavior

First edition of CS: PowerPC
Microsoft Office X: PowerPC
MacTheRipper: PowerPC
PlayerPRO: PowerPC


You're free to help pitch in money to help me get new versions of Office and CS.

 

[N10248]

Is this true?? Why would the new MBA and Mac Minis NOT be able to boot SL?? I've never heard of a mac that could not boot from an older version of an operating system.

My reason for not upgrading most of my machines is the lack of Rosetta. I use a PPC app that is essential to my work. It just seems mean of Apple to cut people off from using Rosetta if you want to. I mean, it was not included in SL, but you could download it if you wanted to. Until there is a 3rd party fix, I will not upgrade to Lion, and even then not sure if I will. I agree with one poster who said the 'eye candy' in Lion is to get iOS users to try Macs. It's not for the regular Mac users.

iFixIt mentioned it on their Mini teardown and another thread on the Apple support forum confirmed it about the Air too.

Apparently even a cloned Snow Leopard drive didn't boot at all on it, but Windows can still be installed so could be a firmware lockout as you would normally get at least some sort of boot up even if it immediately crashed / panic due to wrong drivers.

 

[Akula971]

NG=No Good

Well Spidey3, I run my business from my mac, and guess what? Lion will not connect to my NAS. You'd think they'd foresee that and put an option in to revert to the previous security protocol for these things. So I can't get to my files. But wait ....if I enter some magic words into terminal I can get some sort of connection. After all with a Mac it just works! not anymore.

Another fantastic improvement is the lack of colour in Finder, just so drab and boring, and whilst Apple are wrecking a good product, lets change the order of the groups too, why? no reason, because they can.

Oh and lets remove "save as" from IWorks, a command that has served us well for decades, but some idiot decided it was quicker to open a document, make a duplicate and then when you save it gives you the opportunity to rename. Backwards logic is not good think I. Who the fook thought that one out? Is Yoda working for them? Backwards scrolling you must, natural not.

Trying to blur the distinction between an IPad and a desktop adds nothing to both platforms, only denigrates the desktop, whilst adding no value to the IPad.

I can't afford to stop my business and fool around trying to get it to work as it should. I'll keep it on a separate drive and see how the patches fare. Until then it is Snow Leopard all the way.

 

[shrx]

REAL reasons:

- NO benefits over SL except the new Terminal
- xtreamer can no longer connect to my mac because of broken SMB sharing
- digitalcolor meter not showing HEX values anymore
- character suggestions don't work on all applications and with all keyboard layouts
- again, dictionary lookup with three fingers tap only works in some applications
- mission control is terrible compared to Spaces + Expose
- to make multitouch gestures useful on Lion I now need another program (bettertouchtool)
- you can't disable recent items in dock menu without disabling them completely or having to edit plist files for each application
- badges in the dock now look terrible on small icons
- flash crashes
- unable to wrap around when switching spaces
- no fine volume control with the dedicated buttons

 

[Ashka]

Panther > Tiger > Leopard > Snow Leopard > Lion
The complaints don't ever change even though the OSs do

Having to install Rosetta to run PPS Apps in Snowey was surely a clear enough message that they were on their last legs..

I really can't understand why users upgrade their OS then complain that some things have changed..... Can you imagine the complaints if Apple just repackaged SL with a different cat.

 

[0hy3ah]

I've been looking forward to Lion, like every one else. But my refurb Macbook has had it's "bugs" since the day I got it. I've had to reinstall the OS numerous times and do some other "things" I can't even remember. With that said, I'm nervous about a complete system overhaul with no hard disk. And besides that fact, just the reviews of Lion on the app store is enough to keep me away and running my Mac off of it's current OS until I'm forced for some reason or see and hear about a great improvement in Lion.

 

[gentlefury]

Panther > Tiger > Leopard > Snow Leopard > Lion
The complaints don't ever change even though the OSs do

Having to install Rosetta to run PPS Apps in Snowey was surely a clear enough message that they were on their last legs..

I really can't understand why users upgrade their OS then complain that some things have changed..... Can you imagine the complaints if Apple just repackaged SL with a different cat.

I agree, I don't understand these complainers. If they don't move forward than everyone says its stale...when they do move forward they complain that things changed. By the time 10.8 comes out these same people will be complaining about how they changed mission control, or how they added too much color to finder. You can't please everyone! Glad apple innovates and doesn't retain legacy forever like MS.

 

[TPadden]

Panther > Tiger > Leopard > Snow Leopard > Lion .......

I really can't understand why users upgrade their OS then complain that some things have changed.....

Uh ...... because that's how problems get fixed.

Not one of the OS's mentioned didn't require fixes to correct problems (which are called updates ). "Updates" would never have been issued without those complaints.

 

[Ashka]

Is this true?? Why would the new MBA and Mac Minis NOT be able to boot SL?? I've never heard of a mac that could not boot from an older version of an operating system.
.

There has not been any modern Mac that could be easily downgraded from the OS it shipped with if at all.. New Mac you have Lion, That's it..

 

[Ashka]

Uh ...... because that's how problems get fixed.

Not one of the OS's mentioned didn't require fixes to correct problems (which are called updates ). "Updates" would never have been issued without those complaints.

I did say changed not bugs or problems that always need fixing. Whatever, I still prefer a glass half full

 

[Saturn1217]

I think it should be rather simple to understand. The benefits of Lion don't outweigh the benefits of SL (for me personally).

And when you talk about simple UI changes...isn't that the reason (besides the awesome hardware) that we all shelled out for a mac. I mean honestly without the simple easy to use interface and the nice gesture support I might as well be using windows anyway so why would I use an operating system that made these worse?

Also since Apple is setting a precent here of just pulling the rug out from under users regarding core file system and windows management functions what is to say they won't do the same again in 10.8 after I've finally learned to love autosave/versions (not gonna happen but still). I need my mac for work, not so I can spend hours trying to make it do (or not do) something that is critical for my workflow.

If you are happy with Lion that's great. I think a lot of people on here are complaining because Apple does listen to feedback. In the MBA forum every other post was about the loss of the backlit keyboard and voila now it has returned. I know I am hoping that by voicing complaints that others might also have we can build up a critical mass and get some more options in Lion which is really all it needs in my opinion to be a decent OS (I'm not worried about the bugs...those will get fixed).

 

[Capt Underpants]

I didn't upgrade to begin with.

Why?

Simply not worth the hassle.

 

[blackburn]

Why?
-> Slow.
-> Can't mess around with pdfs (highlighting and stuff) since it saves it automatically.
-> Resume sucks. If I want to reboot is because I want a clean environment.
-> Versions fine and dandy, but I like to manage it my way.
-> My macbook gets a lot more hot (it is not spotlight).
-> Expose is messed up.
-> Nice animations but dog slow.
-> Battery life sucks.
-> And did I mention it is *slow*

I had great expectations for lion. I've done a clean install, no migration assistant, I migrated everything manually.

I wanted to keep it, but when you need your computer for work you can't afford to fight the OS.