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Downgraders: Why?
- Thread starter spidey3
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I wont be downgrading, but, as others have said, you will have to upgrade at sometime as software will stop working on early version (eg, I want iCloud so have no choice but to stay with Lion)
If I was downgrading, the reason for me would be because of Auto Save & Version, I like to have control over when I save my files, or sometimes not save them, having the system just auto save all the time is very annoying
If I was downgrading, the reason for me would be because of Auto Save & Version, I like to have control over when I save my files, or sometimes not save them, having the system just auto save all the time is very annoying
I don't know what you're talking about here. Could you expand on this? When I open an app, it doesn't animate in any way (beyond the dock bounce, which has always been there). The only animations I really notice are when a notification box pops up. It does a little bounce thing, which I quite like actually. =) But ya...I haven't noticed any application launch visualisations. TextEdits opens in the same way it closes, for instance. Maybe if my computer was slower, I'd notice something... hmmm.
As somebody who's only very recently moved to a Mac laptop from Windows, reading about Mac dumbing down the OS rings a very unwelcome bell. That's one of the reasons I decided to migrate from MS to Mac.
I've moved to Lion as an upgrade, rather than as a clean install. I've already found that YouTube doesn't work properly any more. Is it possible for me to go back to Snow Leopard? If so, can anyone tell me how, please?
I've moved to Lion as an upgrade, rather than as a clean install. I've already found that YouTube doesn't work properly any more. Is it possible for me to go back to Snow Leopard? If so, can anyone tell me how, please?
Because scanning is important to me and doesn't work in Lion 10.7
I scan a lot of paperwork. I have an HP Laserjet 3390 AIO. Scanning worked in Snow Leopard just fine on my wireless network but there is no available scanning solution in Lion. Even Vuescan doesn't support scanning in Lion. So I have to go back to Snow Leopard, at least for now.
Beyond that, there is simply nothing that great about Lion. Safari runs slower, way slower and often freezes. It's not that I hate Lion. I'm just waiting for Apple to make it work properly.
I scan a lot of paperwork. I have an HP Laserjet 3390 AIO. Scanning worked in Snow Leopard just fine on my wireless network but there is no available scanning solution in Lion. Even Vuescan doesn't support scanning in Lion. So I have to go back to Snow Leopard, at least for now.
Beyond that, there is simply nothing that great about Lion. Safari runs slower, way slower and often freezes. It's not that I hate Lion. I'm just waiting for Apple to make it work properly.
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I'm sticking with it, but I can totally understand why people are downgrading. Its just so buggy right now.
And regarding #4. Sure, maybe 3rd party vendors are to blame for not keeping their code updated/cleanly written, but when something you rely on works fine in SL and not Lion a downgrade is probably necessary.
My most important application is Logic and although it works and is usable it is a lot more unstable now on Lion (and Logic is an Apple product).
I like Lion, but it feels like another couple months of beta testing would have been useful.
And regarding #4. Sure, maybe 3rd party vendors are to blame for not keeping their code updated/cleanly written, but when something you rely on works fine in SL and not Lion a downgrade is probably necessary.
My most important application is Logic and although it works and is usable it is a lot more unstable now on Lion (and Logic is an Apple product).
I like Lion, but it feels like another couple months of beta testing would have been useful.
I wouldn't recommend downgrading over YouTube. Is it not working in Safari? Is it dependent on Flash and Flash is missing? You can remedy this quickly enough by downloading Flash from Adobe.
I have several issues, none of which are worth downgrading but each of which might have signalled it was better to wait for 10.7.1:
1) NAS drives broken. This is severe enough that it is something Apple should have mentioned in the release notes before you purchase Lion. Perhaps a statement like "Some third party network attached storage will not function properly with Lion without a firmware upgrade."
2) VNC broken. My iPad can no longer "dial in" and control my Mac. While I'm sure the updates are coming, I would have preferred to not have any down time at all.
3) Crashplan stopped working. Crashplan claims their software is tested with Lion. Ok, so why did mine stop working? Again Apple could have mentioned this in release notes: "Crashplan will require action on the part of the user to continue working under Lion." I still don't have mine working because it took crashplan 5 days to send me an email asking why I had stopped backing up. 5 days. And they call themselves a backup service. Still I have to lay the ... wait for it ... cheezy pun ... Lion's share of the blame for Crashplan not functioning on 10.7 on Apple.
4) Lion deletes the install app. Why delete it and require me to sit through another 1+ hour download for my other Macs? It's nice that it shows up free in my App Store on my other Macs but it would be even nicer if I only had to move the bits across my gigabit ethernet and not wait for Comcast to squeeze another copy of this 3.7 GB download to each of my Macs.
5) Oh I almost forgot. Scroll bars don't work. If I click on the visible scroll handle I "miss". I have to click above it and then I can drag it up. This bug needs to be squashed in 10.7.1!
Are these issues trivial? For some users No. Not really. Any of these could be a reason for a person to downgrade or at least wait to upgrade but I'm hoping they are behind me sooner rather than later. If the warnings about broken apps had been a little more clear, I'd have at least waited until I fully understood the impact on my NAS (LaCie Network Space 2), VNC viewer (iTap) and Crashplan. As it is, I expect the NAS issue to be cleared up once I get the 7/22/2011 firmware update on the drive. I hope to have crashplan up and running again once I follow the instructions I found on their support site. I guess I'm at the mercy of iTap developers and Apple's app approval timing to get a VNC solution that saves me the long walk down to my Macbook. While I may have to download Lion one more time, I will make so many friggin' backups it will be the last darn time.
As for my impressions of Lion, it's hard to tell it's not Snow Leopard as long as I don't trip over that useless rocket thing. Why would I want to stare at dozens of pages of icons on a desktop any more than I want to deal with it on my iPhone or iPad? No problem. I just don't click on that thing. As for overall impressions, Lion is not particularly slow. It seems to work except the areas I mentioned above. I don't have a newer trackpad so I don't get to experiment with gestures and multi fingered swipes. I do strongly like the ability to resize a window from any edge or corner. Well done and about time.
My main reason for getting Lion was to prepare to move my MobileMe content over to iCloud. I do wish Apple had decided to offer iCloud with Snow Leopard, especially since Lion requires upgrading the RAM in three of our older Macs.
Annoyed? Yes. Downgrading? No. Upgrading more of my Macs? Yes, unless Apple comes out tomorrow and says "We changed our minds. Anybody with Snow Leopard or later can use iCloud." Then I might at least get to put away the putty knives and leave Snow Leopard on all our old Minis.
You don't notice that the window starts as a dot and enlarges like Win 7/ Vista? Like it "swings in" or "fades in"? You must have just got into OS X as it has never been like that. Maybe you don't have core graphics working? Speed of computer has little to do with it as I have an OWC SSD and 6 cores at 3.33GHz.
Just want to add how newb the OP is. "I don't do any high level stuff or interact with anything other than my iPhotos so I don't know what everyone is complaining about. It does not affect my very basic computing life so it is stupid." Gist of it. Why am I still on this thread?
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8J2 Safari/6533.18.5)
I'm in the process of clean installing snow leopard as well. Adobe reader isn't functioning properly for mission-critical software I use.
The new features of Lion aren't worth the stability, speed, and overall polished state that snow leopard offers.
I'll consider try Lion again in six months or so when the issues have been resolved.
I'm in the process of clean installing snow leopard as well. Adobe reader isn't functioning properly for mission-critical software I use.
The new features of Lion aren't worth the stability, speed, and overall polished state that snow leopard offers.
I'll consider try Lion again in six months or so when the issues have been resolved.
Does anything think that Apple might subtly bring back some of these features in an update, i.e bringing back spaces and making work correctly on the MC?
They're not going to do a complete u-turn on Lion, but they may appease people by adding back some of the lost functionality from SL.
They're not going to do a complete u-turn on Lion, but they may appease people by adding back some of the lost functionality from SL.
It might be that sharing experiences on a forum isn't really whining but is actually just sharing experiences on a forum.
While it's too early to tell the Lion experience might have some things in common with the Vista experience. As you may recall Vista promised all kinds of great new features but many users felt compelled to stay with XP.
The repaired Vista was renamed Windows 7. The repaired Lion might simply be called OSX 10.7.5.
I wouldn't recommend downgrading over YouTube. Is it not working in Safari? Is it dependent on Flash and Flash is missing? You can remedy this quickly enough by downloading Flash from Adobe.
I have several issues, none of which are worth downgrading but each of which might have signalled it was better to wait for 10.7.1:
1) NAS drives broken. This is severe enough that it is something Apple should have mentioned in the release notes before you purchase Lion. Perhaps a statement like "Some third party network attached storage will not function properly with Lion without a firmware upgrade."
2) VNC broken. My iPad can no longer "dial in" and control my Mac. While I'm sure the updates are coming, I would have preferred to not have any down time at all.
3) Crashplan stopped working. Crashplan claims their software is tested with Lion. Ok, so why did mine stop working? Again Apple could have mentioned this in release notes: "Crashplan will require action on the part of the user to continue working under Lion." I still don't have mine working because it took crashplan 5 days to send me an email asking why I had stopped backing up. 5 days. And they call themselves a backup service. Still I have to lay the ... wait for it ... cheezy pun ... Lion's share of the blame for Crashplan not functioning on 10.7 on Apple.
4) Lion deletes the install app. Why delete it and require me to sit through another 1+ hour download for my other Macs? It's nice that it shows up free in my App Store on my other Macs but it would be even nicer if I only had to move the bits across my gigabit ethernet and not wait for Comcast to squeeze another copy of this 3.7 GB download to each of my Macs.
5) Oh I almost forgot. Scroll bars don't work. If I click on the visible scroll handle I "miss". I have to click above it and then I can drag it up. This bug needs to be squashed in 10.7.1!
Are these issues trivial? For some users No. Not really. Any of these could be a reason for a person to downgrade or at least wait to upgrade but I'm hoping they are behind me sooner rather than later. If the warnings about broken apps had been a little more clear, I'd have at least waited until I fully understood the impact on my NAS (LaCie Network Space 2), VNC viewer (iTap) and Crashplan. As it is, I expect the NAS issue to be cleared up once I get the 7/22/2011 firmware update on the drive. I hope to have crashplan up and running again once I follow the instructions I found on their support site. I guess I'm at the mercy of iTap developers and Apple's app approval timing to get a VNC solution that saves me the long walk down to my Macbook. While I may have to download Lion one more time, I will make so many friggin' backups it will be the last darn time.
As for my impressions of Lion, it's hard to tell it's not Snow Leopard as long as I don't trip over that useless rocket thing. Why would I want to stare at dozens of pages of icons on a desktop any more than I want to deal with it on my iPhone or iPad? No problem. I just don't click on that thing. As for overall impressions, Lion is not particularly slow. It seems to work except the areas I mentioned above. I don't have a newer trackpad so I don't get to experiment with gestures and multi fingered swipes. I do strongly like the ability to resize a window from any edge or corner. Well done and about time.
My main reason for getting Lion was to prepare to move my MobileMe content over to iCloud. I do wish Apple had decided to offer iCloud with Snow Leopard, especially since Lion requires upgrading the RAM in three of our older Macs.
Annoyed? Yes. Downgrading? No. Upgrading more of my Macs? Yes, unless Apple comes out tomorrow and says "We changed our minds. Anybody with Snow Leopard or later can use iCloud." Then I might at least get to put away the putty knives and leave Snow Leopard on all our old Minis.
I have some progress to report:
1 - Lacie firmware update dated 7/22/11 solved the problem and I can now log in to my NAS using afp instead of smb or using afp via guest access.
2 - Still waiting for the new version of iTap
3 - As suggested by Crashplan, simply ran crashplan by hand and got the JVM installed. Crashplan is at least running now though it is not clear how much of my stuff it is going to "re back up". Woohoo! Backup completed while I typed this!
4 - No luck with getting an install app that passes checksum yet. Still struggling to avoid another download...
5 - I guess I'll have to complain to Apple about this so they don't miss fixing it in 10.7.1. Of course this could be merely a google chrome thing since that's the only place I notice it but it's still worth telling Apple about it...
I finally joined the crowd here. I started dual booting 10.6 and 10.7
I'm not going to modify my behavior to suit my computer..
I'm not going to modify my behavior to suit my computer..
First i'm not a downgrader, but I am a not-updater.
Fortunately, I recognized what was going to happen to spaces during Jobs presentation of Lion and everything I've read since has confirmed it. I'm with you I'm not planning to update to Lion any time soon. I currently use 9 spaces to separate what I'm currently doing, and having them arranged in a grid helps me move quickly from one space to another. Also, when I use expose, I want to see the entire window not only parts of them while the rest are hidden behind other windows.
Also, I have 2 monitors. So that I can watch a video in fullscreen on 1 monitor and continue working in the other. According to what I read, this is not possible with Lions version of fullscreen. Instead the second monitor is effectively useless since it goes blank. This is caused by fullscreen app creating its own space instead of just using the space they are in. Simply put SL handles fullscreen mode better for multiple monitors.
I won't be planning to update until until these bugs are fixed.
Boy am I glad I didn't wait to buy my new Macbook Pro.
Fortunately, I recognized what was going to happen to spaces during Jobs presentation of Lion and everything I've read since has confirmed it. I'm with you I'm not planning to update to Lion any time soon. I currently use 9 spaces to separate what I'm currently doing, and having them arranged in a grid helps me move quickly from one space to another. Also, when I use expose, I want to see the entire window not only parts of them while the rest are hidden behind other windows.
Also, I have 2 monitors. So that I can watch a video in fullscreen on 1 monitor and continue working in the other. According to what I read, this is not possible with Lions version of fullscreen. Instead the second monitor is effectively useless since it goes blank. This is caused by fullscreen app creating its own space instead of just using the space they are in. Simply put SL handles fullscreen mode better for multiple monitors.
I won't be planning to update until until these bugs are fixed.
Boy am I glad I didn't wait to buy my new Macbook Pro.
I'm a Downgrader, i can't do what normally do with this Mac OS.
Bugs in Mail, Safari, QT, Mission control, Gestures, I don't like the UI, it's a battery drainer, slow slow slow (MPB 2009 4 gb). Third party apps bugs: MS Office, Filemaker, Adobe CS5, Omnifocus, OmniPlan.
Bugs in Mail, Safari, QT, Mission control, Gestures, I don't like the UI, it's a battery drainer, slow slow slow (MPB 2009 4 gb). Third party apps bugs: MS Office, Filemaker, Adobe CS5, Omnifocus, OmniPlan.
I'm sure they do, depending on what you order. My new iMac shipped with Lion preinstalled, no SL or iLife discs to be seen anywhere.
https://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=13027487&#post13027487
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Kernel panics, random freezes. That is going to end up being my reason if they don't release a fix soon.
Panther > Tiger > Leopard > Snow Leopard > Lion
The complaints don't ever change even though the OSs do
Having to install Rosetta to run PPS Apps in Snowey was surely a clear enough message that they were on their last legs..
I really can't understand why users upgrade their OS then complain that some things have changed..... Can you imagine the complaints if Apple just repackaged SL with a different cat.
I agree. Some people are reluctant to change and expect things to work for ever.
We were given heaps of notice regarding PPC apps being not compatible with Lion. Fo those who are having a go at Apple for doing this, you should re-direct that to the developers of the affected software.
If you don't want to lose your PPC apps, then there is no pressure for you to upgrade now. Just continue to use snow leopard.
Do we all remember that Apple first mentioned "Intel " in 2005 at their WWDC. The hint was dropped there - PPC was dying. It has taken them 6 years to kill it.