Dual-Core PowerMacs, New G4 PowerBook, and G5 Mini?

[Freg3000]

Freg3000, what do you suppose will be introduced at MWSF '06? Software? More info on Leopard? (And, by the way, that is in no way meant to be sarcastic; it's a genuine question.) Typically, it's the biggest event of the year, isn't it? It would be incredibly convenient if the x86 macs were at least introduced.

If Steve said "shipping by this time next year," doesn't that at least make an announcement somewhat plausible? How long after the PowerMac G5 introduction did they actually start shipping in quantity? I'm not pretending to know what SiliconAddict is thinking, but my guess is that he's betting on an announcement. It seems reasonable, I think.

Squire

I don't think Leopard will be discussed, but iLife '06 is all but a lock, and I would say an update to iWork is a good bet. Who knows what is beyond that; there are a ton of things that could be announced. All you have to do is take a look at some of the recent rumors...like an iTunes/iMovie store or a tablet. Or what about the things that seem to come from out of the blue, like the Mighty Mouse, Airport Express, or the 12/17 inch PowerBooks.

And even if we didn't have a slight idea of what may come, who knows what will pop up at the last minute. Remember the past MWSF? Every day a new rumors appeared...a flash iPod, "Asteroid", "Headless iMac", iWork, PowerBook updates, and even xServe updates. So I don't think I need to come up with a laundry list of things that will take up the 90-120 minutes of Steve's Keynote to still believe that x86 Macs will not be announced there.

I really don't mind that people think that Intel Macs will show up at MWSF '06. I would actually enjoy it. But I just fear the Rumor Roundup thread at the end of December or beginning of January featuring ever other post saying "Steve said Intel Macs in January 2006" as if it were fact. It just isn't.

 

[DakotaGuy]

Just to say......heard of the Mhz myth 2.7Ghz PPC does NOT = 2.7Ghz P4

And the P4 is now at 3.8

A P4 at 3.8Ghz? WOW! No PowerPC would hang with that. I used to like PowerPC but like everyone else around here, I dumped them when Apple dumped them. Intel is the way to go. Look how modern and great their technology is...I mean the G5 has not hardly seen any gain in speed since they came out with it and the Pentium 4 is now at 3.8Ghz.

 

[nagromme]

The Pentium 4 is on the way out: Intel's future--and thus ours--is the Pentium M, and new architectures based on that. Lower MHz, higher performance.

 

[Shiori]

I call bs on the mac mini G5 don't think that this will happen unless they do a redesign.

 

[AidenShaw]

The Pentium 4 is on the way out: Intel's future--and thus ours--is the Pentium M, and new architectures based on that. Lower MHz, higher performance.

True, but today the fastest chips on the majority of benchmarks are those very 64-bit Pentium 4's.

Do you want the fact of the highest performance chips today (and it's clear that everybody can keep these puppies cool), or do you want to wait for the promise of cooler chips tomorrow?

Consider that Apple could have 8 processor PowerMacs based on the Paxville Xeon's ready for MWSF.... Or nice 4 processor systems....

Consider that any Pentium 4 software will run on the future Pentium M based chips - so nothing would be lost software-wise.

Things move more quickly in the Intel world. If Apple doesn't use the "Netburst" P4's, they'll be selling "lame duck" PPC systems against quad processor small form factor Dell desktops.... Can Apple "skip" a revision because it's not faster enough?

 

[Squire]

Steve said that the low end goes first. That means the iBook and the Mac mini (MWSF 06). Then Powerbook (WWDC 06), then eMac/iMac (MWSF 07), then finally the Power Mac (WWDC 07) (could be adjusted for entirely new product lines).

No, he didn't. I believe the Wall Street Journal and CNet did. Steve Jobs made absolutely no mention of which systems would be first in the intel migration.

I don't think Leopard will be discussed, but iLife '06 is all but a lock, and I would say an update to iWork is a good bet. Who knows what is beyond that; there are a ton of things that could be announced. All you have to do is take a look at some of the recent rumors...like an iTunes/iMovie store or a tablet. Or what about the things that seem to come from out of the blue, like the Mighty Mouse, Airport Express, or the 12/17 inch PowerBooks.

And even if we didn't have a slight idea of what may come, who knows what will pop up at the last minute. Remember the past MWSF? Every day a new rumors appeared...a flash iPod, "Asteroid", "Headless iMac", iWork, PowerBook updates, and even xServe updates. So I don't think I need to come up with a laundry list of things that will take up the 90-120 minutes of Steve's Keynote to still believe that x86 Macs will not be announced there.

I really don't mind that people think that Intel Macs will show up at MWSF '06. I would actually enjoy it. But I just fear the Rumor Roundup thread at the end of December or beginning of January featuring ever other post saying "Steve said Intel Macs in January 2006" as if it were fact. It just isn't.

True about the iApps. Maybe you're right but I still suspect we hear an announcement with "shipping in March" in a large white font behind Jobs.

Squire

 

[iDave]

Steve said that the low end goes first.

I don't remember hearing (reading) any such statement by anyone at Apple. Are you sure about that?

 

[Xephian]

I don't remember hearing (reading) any such statement by anyone at Apple. Are you sure about that?

I thought I've heard that too.

 

[iDave]

I thought I've heard that too.

The "low end goes first" rumor has been spread widely but I don't think there's anything to it. It has been speculated that might happen due to the types of processors expected to be available first.

It wouldn't surprise me if Apple had a couple of significant upgrades planned for lower-end Macs, i.e. G5 minis and eMacs; dual core G5 iMacs, and then didn't switch them over to Intel until 2007. It's probably likely that the PowerBooks will be the first to go Intel.

But I'm only guessing. I haven't heard a word from Apple on the matter.

 

[pelagi]

found an interesting article on The Inq (you love em), just a PURE speculation on Intel's direction for future products and it might go some way into justifying Apple's switch. P4 is dead!

edit, forgot link: http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=25496

 

[djeddiebear]

I personally hope and want the PBs go Intel in the end of 06/beginning 07. I'm getting a PB after I hear what Jobs has planned at Paris 05, so in 2 years the 2nd to 3rd revision would be a great time to upgrade my PB.

 

[syklee26]

G5 Mini possible

G5 Mini is possible yet unlikely. the only possible scenario for it would be if Apple just adds "higher-end" model for Mini at $799 or more. Apple does not have to refresh the entire Mini line to get G5 in; they just have to add G5 Mini as more expensive option.

Dual-Core G5 PowerMac is pretty much a lock. Recent wait-time has somewhat implied it.

Powerbook update is a very strong possibility too. They might try to make 12 inch one come with 512mb on-board, and possibly add faster hard-drive and better screen for 15 and 17 inch model.

Also, iPod Mini with color display is a strong possibility too.

 

[Freg3000]

True about the iApps. Maybe you're right but I still suspect we hear an announcement with "shipping in March" in a large white font behind Jobs.

Squire

I sure hope he does. The sooner he announces Intel Macs the sooner I can get one.

I also forgot all about the "low end" goes first fact....I mean theory. Come on it is only August; even if they debut at MWSF '06 we still have months of "Steve said low end goes first" and "Confirmed to be released in January."

And it is going to drive me crazy. lol

 

[Platform]

Open a Mac mini and tell me that again. There are two drives sitting on top of the logic board in a MacMini, not so in a PB where they are off to the side. There is no extra room in there over a Powerbook. Probably even less.

G5 mini is most definitely *not* more possible than a PB. Open one up and you'll see for yourself.

Yes I have and if you have a look inside it there is room for more than the PB...remember that the 1" includes the LCD.....

In the mini there is room for a heatsink to be mounted on top of the chip but the PB have to use heatpies. In the mini all they have to do it create a pure copper heatsink with very very thin fins and attact and slowgoing fan.

PB...much harder since it has to be sone with a heatpipe.

 

[nsjoker]

no g5, go home

enough of this g5 mini talk. it's retarded... it will not happen. all cooling and dimensional issues aside... people are forgetting the G5 is PowerPC.. apple is phasing out the powerpc and shifting into intel, so why would they release a g5 mac mini?? intel macs are coming in january, no point in making more ppc products this late in the game.

 

[Platform]

enough of this g5 mini talk. it's retarded... it will not happen. all cooling and dimensional issues aside... people are forgetting the G5 is PowerPC.. apple is phasing out the powerpc and shifting into intel, so why would they release a g5 mac mini?? intel macs are coming in january, no point in making more ppc products this late in the game.

Ok......I'm not going to argue anymore.......but how do you people get 1 year to become 1/2 a year......Steve at WWDC said next year when we meet we will have Intels.

And also why can't there be new PPC products comming...he said "we have some great PPC products in the pipeline"

 

[nsjoker]

Ok......I'm not going to argue anymore.......but how do you people get 1 year to become 1/2 a year......Steve at WWDC said next year when we meet we will have Intels.

And also why can't there be new PPC products comming...he said "we have some great PPC products in the pipeline"

he said the intel macs would be available by around the time of the keynote. that doesn't tell us anything , why would apple want to wait past january to get the ball rolling on the intel macs?? the pcc products down the pipeline were the revised mac mini's and ibooks, and possibly a freescale powerbook in september. no great ppc products, just mediocre

 

[Platform]

he said the intel macs would be available by around the time of the keynote. that doesn't tell us anything , why would apple want to wait past january to get the ball rolling on the intel macs?? the pcc products down the pipeline were the revised mac mini's and ibooks, and possibly a freescale powerbook in september. no great ppc products, just mediocre

Both the minis and the ibooks had NO....Zero new technology....But the Freescale PB and maybe some other products like the 970MP could be very great poducts

 

[remingtonhill]

Reasonable Apple Purchases...

* ibook 14" 1.42 @ $1199 or $1299 (decent performance @ pricepoint)

* Mac Mini 1.42 Ghz @ $599 or $699 (low pricepoint)

* Refurbished iMac 1.6 Ghz @ $899 or Superdrive 1.8 Ghz @ $999
---
Don't buy a powerbook.

Don't buy a powermac.

*End of Discussion

 

[neutrino23]

I agree.

The CEO of Transitive is quoted as saying apps will run 80% as fast as they would on their native binary with Rosetta. This means break even performance is 120%, or +20%. That keeps the speed the *same* in a revision. Since most updates range ~15% to ~20% in the speed department, I would agree that the Intel processor (and accompanying mobo, hd, ram, etc.) would have to be ~40% faster than the shipping PPC product to be meaningful to the end user.

*However*, if all the apps the low end user are engaged with (iLife, OS X, iWork) are native to x86, then the Intel part could be just ~20% faster. And this is why I believe the Mac Mini will be updated to Intel in the first batch in Q2 2006-- the low end user won't care about running Photoshop, Quark, FCP, Cinema 4D .... they'll just run the stuff that comes with the computer, or they can download for free.

I think you can't make a simple extrapolation like this. Mac programs spend a high fraction of their time executing code in the OS. That is, a lot of the time is spent executing system calls and these presumably will be running native Intel code.

The upshot is that the penalty for running Rosetta may not be that much for many programs.

 

[neutrino23]

So, this may be a little far-fetched, but bare with me.

A few months ago, Apple drops the 1.8GHz single G5. This new (speculative) PB update is to have about 1.7GHz. What if apple took left over 1.8 G5's, tweaked them to keep from overheating thus yielding only 1.7GHz, and slapped 'em into a powerbook. This would fulfill Steve's promise of exciting PPC upgrades in the pipeline.

I'd go for that.

Good catch. That could explain the miserly 30MHz increase if it was accompanied with a change from a G4 to a G5. I don't expect it to go this way but very interesting speculation.

 

[neutrino23]

I would have to say that it is very possilbe that Apple will come out with a G5 Mac Mini and a G5 PowerBook. They said that it was going to be a 2 year trasistion over to the Intel CPU. And that they were not going to completly phase out the PPC until Q3 of 2007 so it is very possilbe that Apple introduce the G5 MacMini and a PowerBook G5 in that time... That is if IBM doesn't sit there and say that they are only going to give them 2% of the CPU's that they make. Which is what promted the Intel switch...

You bring up a number of good points. I think that if Apple didn't have to bring the developers along they would not have told anyone about this till the first hardware came out. Development cycles go on for quite a while. Apple, like other large companies, always has a number of projects and prototypes being developed at the same time.

I suspect the Mac mini and perhaps the iBooks will get the Intel CPUs first. This will give Apple a chance to have a few hundred thousand units in the field before they move on to the more critical PowerBooks and then the PowerMacs. I wouldn't be surprised to see Intel based PowerBooks as late as MWSF 2007. In the meantime we could see dual core G4s from Freescale and later maybe even a dual core G5.

I was reading a short news article that stated that the real action in low power chips from Intel will happen when they move to 45nm design rules in 2006/2007. The article suggested that some huge advances have been made in power management at that level.

 

[Pax]

g5 mini possible

I think the G5 mini makes a lot of sense
Remember
- the G4 mini is really a folded-up iBook (or eMac) and was a great way of re-using an existing architecture.
- Apple almost certainly completed a G5 PowerBook design prior to the Intel announcement. It was waiting on the low power/thermal 970fxs until Steve lost patience.
- folding up the G5 PowerBook design would be pretty simple and wrapping a similar (not identical!) mini form factor case around it would be a great way of re-using a redundant design in which Apple has invested millions.

The G4 mini looks to me like a classic opportunistic move by Apple - address a new segment with an existing architecture. I bet it took less than 6 months to conceive, design and build. And it's shipped millions to a whole new segment. Apple played the same trick with the 12" Powerbook and again had a big success.

The G4 mini now looks a bit tired - why not play the same opportunistic game with a dud G5 970fx PowerBook design that's currently on the shelf gathering dust?

I bet there are production ready G5 PowerBooks inside Apple. They will never see the light of day because the performance/thermals/consumption aren't attractive compared with today's G4s or with Intel competition. I bet they hide them from Steve because of the "Steve angry.... Steve smash IBM!" response they induce. But in a mini form factor....

 

[suede]

reader for about 6 months

i think the only things that could get me to buy a powerbook before the switch to intel would be a substantial price drop (before student discount) or new screens. as much as i hate waiting to buy my first mac, when i'm out and see pc laptops and the nice new screens i can't imagine having anything but that. why buy a dinosaur screen for 2-3 times the price? yeah, the mac OS is awesome, it's beautiful, it's a way of life, so why put it behind old screens? maybe the people at apple are too busy with switching the ipod lineup every few months.

with that said, a few posts have kinda touched on the "why buy before the switch," and i kinda have to agree. maybe jobs set himself up too soon with the announcement? other than the mini or 12" ibook, a new mac is easily $1500... that's a lot to spend on something that is an end of the line product when the bigger and better are around the corner. late 2006 or sometime in 2007... yeah, it's forever, but maybe by then apple will come around with what the consumer wants other than what apple wants. widescreen notebooks, new brite screens, faster processors... for what people pay for a mac it shouldn't be too much to ask.

anyway, just my two cents in my first post. i'm not a hater, i just want to see something worth the money in terms of a notebook sometime soon. new widescreen ibooks next tuesday. kidding.

 

[tgorochowski]

Single Dual Core Slower Than Dual Processor Machine

A single dual core processor will be faster than dual single core processors. Overhead, overhead, overhead...

This is not true. With the dual G5 each processor has an individual bus to memory, however, dual core chips share the same bus and so for apps that shift a lot of memory arround the dual processor machines will run faster.