Dutch Antitrust Probe Targets Contactless Payments Like Apple Pay

[Powerbooky]

I can configure whatever credit card I want to use under Apple Pay. Apple Pay itself is free. So what is really the problem?

Nope... I tried this when Apple Pay was introduced with a random card issued by my bank and it failed. Only until Apple Pay was introduced in my country, plus another few months, a couple of local banks had a contract with Apple Pay and then it was possible to use Apple Pay as a debit card. No credit card options.

And while Apple Pay seems to be free for us users, it is a paid service for banks (thus we do pay for this in the end)

 

[Mugger]

There is a fee for the banks to use this service. In Australia the big 4 banks all initially refused to participate. Several smaller banks did though and customers quickly started moving accounts to these banks. No surprise many of the other bigger banks quickly followed to stop losing customers.

 

[UrbanJoe1]

Apple wants exclusive control so they can be a toll troll. Any questions?

 

[UrbanJoe1]

I wanna use the NFC chip on my debit card to gain access to my apartment building. Can't do it. Guess I should call Chase and have them look into it. When they say no, I'll reach out to a antitrust lawyer to have them look into it.

Yes, I'm being sarcastic. I just don't see the difference in the situation.

You’re taking apples and oranges. It’s all about who gets the money and your bank would only be taking a risk to let your card do double duty for home access. Apple is looking to expand as far as the gvt will allow and collect tolls for as much as possible. Interest and fees is the holy grail. If the gvt taxed the crap out of these big tech banking profits then Apple would open it up in a heart beat. It’s all about the insatiable search for profit.

 

[sideshowuniqueuser]

Next: European Antitrust Probe Targets Tim Cook's Underwear

Well if they want to find dirt....

 

[4492865]

But you can already use apple pay for public transportation in many places if you check the apples site.

But not in the Netherlands. If Apple had opened the chip, we would have. They already did a test in Android. That stifles innovation and progress. We should not have to wait until Apple is ready.

 

[samcolak]

All banks DO have access to Apple’s NFC. They simply need to allow their cards to work in Apple’s Wallet

The idea that one of these banks is going to create their own app and payment network with retailer support is ludicrous

Actually the banks don't do any of this. In Holland ICS runs the show controlling the issuance of Mastercard and Visa cards of behalf of the banks and this company is completely CORRUPT. The main reason why ApplePay took so long was that ICS wanted more money as they would lose out in the whole transaction.

Attempts to open up their own banking services using NFC have failed as the cost was passed onto the shops to integrate the tech receiving side of things - Rings, cards and so forth have been tested - all to very limited acceptance / uptake in the country.

Interestingly enough, this dutch organisation should look at the way the 3 big ones (ING, ABN and RABO) control the whole space with regard to retail banking...

 

[SanderEvers]

But not in the Netherlands. If Apple had opened the chip, we would have. They already did a test in Android. That stifles innovation and progress. We should not have to wait until Apple is ready.

That's not Apple's fault but translink's. They don't want to use Apple pay for public transport. Which they obviously could. Just the same as not being able to use your debit card instead of the OV-chipcard. That is all perfectly possible.

 

[Matthew Gibbons]

Walmart is not creating a payment app with NFC because Apple locks them out. Walmart created a payment app where you have to scan a barcode to pay. Of course it's not a good way to pay. Everyone made fun of it and said it sucks but that's not Walmart's fault. This is exactly what Apple wants. Anyone who tries to create a competing payment app will not be able to create one with a good experience like Apple Pay; thus all consumers will continue to use Apple Pay and Apple will continue to benefit from all the processing fees.

Tesco in the UK has done this successfully with their Pay+ app. It generates a QR Code to scan, and links payment to my card of choice and tallies my loyalty points. Saves me having to get a loyalty card and a payment card (or phone) out.

 

[Denzo]

I’ll be the first to call out and some if it’s ridiculous moves in 2020 such as the infamous no charger with my $1900aud iPhone pro to “help save the environment”.. oh, but I just need to buy their new charger to realise its fast charging feature on my new device, or the slightly lesser but still classic removed the headphones as it’s helping with wastage and precious materials usage 🤦‍♀️. That’s just crap that’s been spun and most people are aware of this fact. I’m glad Brazil is not taking this one in the butt like the rest of us.
However, Apple has designed the iPhone and its iOS. Why does Apple have to open up its products so that the banks or any other corporate can make more profit using Apples products? Can Apple use the banks products for itself? I highly doubt it. It’s not anti competitive.
If the banks are serious release a competitive product and go head to head otherwise gtfoh. Open market apparently. What incentive is there to make an awesome product only to have to share your IP to assist others.

 

[AndyMacAndMic]

I’ll be the first to call out and some if it’s ridiculous moves in 2020 such as the infamous no charger with my $1900aud iPhone pro to “help save the environment”.. oh, but I just need to buy their new charger to realise its fast charging feature on my new device, or the slightly lesser but still classic removed the headphones as it’s helping with wastage and precious materials usage 🤦‍♀️. That’s just crap that’s been spun and most people are aware of this fact. I’m glad Brazil is not taking this one in the butt like the rest of us.
However, Apple has designed the iPhone and its iOS. Why does Apple have to open up its products so that the banks or any other corporate can make more profit using Apples products? Can Apple use the banks products for itself? I highly doubt it. It’s not anti competitive.
If the banks are serious release a competitive product and go head to head otherwise gtfoh. Open market apparently. What incentive is there to make an awesome product only to have to share your IP to assist others.

It seems you are jumping to conclusions (no offence ). In this thread's article it is stated that Apple is not even mentioned by the Dutch Authority. Also the banks did not instigate this investigation. Your opinion is solely based on exaggerated posts in this thread of people who think Apple needs to be defended or banks are in need of attack. Also most people in this thread have no clue of the particular situation regarding contactless payment in the Netherlands and seem to strictly view it from a US standpoint.

The investigation is solely about contactless payment antitrust behaviour in general. The conclusion can go in any direction. Nothing more and nothing less.

 

[CthuluLemon]

It's nothing to do with security. It has everything to do with Apple forcing everyone to use their app so that they get a cut of everything. There's nothing wrong with Apple Pay just like there would be nothing wrong with Apple letting banks develop their own app and access NFC. No one would be forced at gunpoint to use the bank's apps. It's all about consumer choice. Consumers could choose to use Apple Pay or use their bank's NFC app. Everyone wins with consumer choice except for Apple. And Apple protects its bottom line AT ALL COSTS. So you will see a lot of BUT SECURITY thrown around. That is all misdirection to take the focus off of Apple excluding third parties from NFC.

A concise post advocating for consumer choice on MacRumors! I didn’t think I’d live to see the day.

Allowing third parties access to the NFC chip in the iPhone would be a huge security risk at large.

These types of anti-trust anti-consumer convenience lawsuits and laws dressed up as anti-competitive measures are going to make Europe a tech and media wasteland one day. The ROI simply won't be there once LATAM, Africa and the rest of APAC outside China catch up. Europe's outsized buying power will disappear and companies will simply ask "Why bother?"

I wonder how many people over the millennia have bet on Europe becoming a wasteland? Still doesn’t seem to have happened. Almost like they know what they’re doing over there or something.

 

[spazzcat]

Apple would turn the feature off before they left 3rd parties into the secure enclave where your CC, fingerprint, or face scan info is stored.

 

[123]

So what is really the problem?

Credit cards. Tell me one reason why we need them in a digital world. There's none. Still don't see the problem?

 

[aknabi]

The Dutch wireless/POS payment system has been monopolized by their national ideal network for years... I guessing it maybe (maybe! pure speculation) a bit of protecting that system under the guise of "Antitrust"

 

[I7guy]

A concise post advocating for consumer choice on MacRumors! I didn’t think I’d live to see the day.

Me neither. Imagine that. A post advocating consumer choice...good thing there is that. What is not good, is government regulating private industry in a way that micro-manages business practices that are neither illegal or unethical.

I wonder how many people over the millennia have bet on Europe becoming a wasteland? Still doesn’t seem to have happened. Almost like they know what they’re doing over there or something.

Sometimes.

 

[iGeek2019]

Tesco in the UK has done this successfully with their Pay+ app. It generates a QR Code to scan, and links payment to my card of choice and tallies my loyalty points. Saves me having to get a loyalty card and a payment card (or phone) out.

Pay+ is great but I do wish they would consider Automatic Selection for Clubcard as well-prefer using Apple Pay myself so I could still do that and have my phone present the Clubcard first without having to double tap Touch ID to bring it up.

 

[frenchcamp49er]

It’s not free for the banks. They pay a fee every time you use Apple Pay.

But it’s still free for you to use, if the banks don’t want to pay a fee, if in fact the so, then they can take their card out of Apple Pay. I don’t want anyone doing anything to the security of my phone.

 

[goobot]

But it’s still free for you to use, if the banks don’t want to pay a fee, if in fact the so, then they can take their card out of Apple Pay. I don’t want anyone doing anything to the security of my phone.

I think the argument is that because banks are paying more they will eventually start to just charge the user more to make up for it. Apparently some countries are already doing this but I’m not sure for certain.

 

[CriticalVoice]

It’s not free for the banks. They pay a fee every time you use Apple Pay.

Would you kindly give us a proof ?

 

[OLSinFLA]

Banks don't even run the transactions on cards. You wouldn't see a bank app. You'd see a MasterCard or Visa app because banks use that for interbank and retail transactions.

 

[OLSinFLA]

Nope... I tried this when Apple Pay was introduced with a random card issued by my bank and it failed. Only until Apple Pay was introduced in my country, plus another few months, a couple of local banks had a contract with Apple Pay and then it was possible to use Apple Pay as a debit card. No credit card options.

And while Apple Pay seems to be free for us users, it is a paid service for banks (thus we do pay for this in the end)

Meanwhile, banks pay a small fee but credit card companies charge 300% more to the vendors.

 

[michelb76]

First: it's a probe, not a conclusion. Checking things is an aspect of a well-functioning democracy, something inexplicably foreign to some people from certain well-known countries it seems.

 

[RHohn5392]

Smartphones are largely general purpose devices that serve as a platform for a huge number of different services. Debit cards are largely single purpose devices. How would you feel if Apple Pay were locked to users of Apple Card? Would that feel right to you?

Fair point, manu!

 

[manu chao]

I can't find any reference to that "fee" you mention, please snd a link

To quote Wikipedia:
”Financial Times reported that Apple receives 0.15% cut of US purchases made with the service, but, following the UK launch, reported that Apple's cut is much lower in the UK. This is largely because Regulation (EU) 2015/751 capped interchange fees in the European Economic Area at 0.3% for personal credit cards and 0.2% for personal debit cards with effect from June 8, 2015. In Russia, Apple receives 0.05% for debit cards and 0.12% for credit cards of each purchase, in addition, the bank pays 45 rubles a year for each card added in the service.”

You’ll find the links to the primary sources in the Wikipedia article itself.