Aren't TouchId and FaceID tied to the secure encalve? Those are two forms of security. Your fingerprint and a digital scan of your face. Somehow those APIs are open to third party companies. Most of the apps on my iPhone utilize FaceID. Seems Apple figured out a way to allow third party access while still keeping them secure. They won't do that with NFC not because of security but to protect their percentage made off credit card transactions.
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Dutch Antitrust Probe Targets Contactless Payments Like Apple Pay
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
I can see both sides of the argument.
But personally I think Apple controlling the service means it's a clean and easy way for the user to have access to a highly convenient system. With more and more cards coming on board it gets more useful for us every day. The walled garden works well in this regard.
Yes, some cards aren't available and that's not great, but if it were opened up, I'd imagine you then wouldn't have them all stored in one convenient location on your phone/watch. Fragmentation sucks. Look at streaming services. The user always loses out with Fragmentation even though choice is increased. There is a balance.
Personally, the best feature of the Apple Watch is how useful it is for payments. No need to pull out a wallet/purse or even phone. It's on your wrist and with a touch of the side button you've got your payment.
But personally I think Apple controlling the service means it's a clean and easy way for the user to have access to a highly convenient system. With more and more cards coming on board it gets more useful for us every day. The walled garden works well in this regard.
Yes, some cards aren't available and that's not great, but if it were opened up, I'd imagine you then wouldn't have them all stored in one convenient location on your phone/watch. Fragmentation sucks. Look at streaming services. The user always loses out with Fragmentation even though choice is increased. There is a balance.
Personally, the best feature of the Apple Watch is how useful it is for payments. No need to pull out a wallet/purse or even phone. It's on your wrist and with a touch of the side button you've got your payment.
That is spot on. There is 0 chance they can’t find a way to allow 3rd party access to NFC securely if they want to. It’s just that the premium they get from the transactions happening on apple pay is too juicy. Same as the whole no charger thing, it’s just a lot of PR talk, but what they are really saying is “we just want to make more money”.
I think the consumer choice argument is a bit risky. What happens when a bank decides that you can only use their app, and not Apple Pay, etc., because they want to maximize their profits? Consumer choice no more. Should any recommendations that come out of this investigation include the idea that all banks that have their own apps must participate in all digital wallet services? There's your consumer choice.
EXACTLY! This is my biggest concern and issue. It’s absolutely absurd that a retailer can allow one NFC payment system from Android, but not allow people to use Apple Pay.
Governments complaining about a company stifling tech innovation are hypocritical. Their "solutions" usually do more damage if anything, this one included.
And when it's coming from Europe or China, I just see it as another trade war tactic, nothing more.
And when it's coming from Europe or China, I just see it as another trade war tactic, nothing more.
Apple Pay wouldn't go away. It would still be there and still be available to use if the consumer chose to do so. There would just be more competing apps which the customer could use if they so choose. No one would be forced to use one or the other. This is about consumer choice not about allowing more apps at the expense of Apple Pay. Apple Pay would still probably be used by the vast majority of iPhone users; doesn't mean that since most consumers like Apple Pay there should not be any competition.
Is ApplePay free?
I think the Australian banks wanted access because they didnt want to pay fees.
One went it alone and used ApplePay, ANZ, which was good enough reason for me to keep banking with them.
Eventually the others realised they werent going to win and have relented and used the Apple solution.
Banks are just used to getting their own way and making the rules. They hate Apple made the tech solution and have the customer based to make it a success. It's easy. It works. For consumers. (It's not good whenyour ID password gets reset and you have to reload and authorize all your devices again and then get to the shops and realise you dont have your physical wallet and all your cards have disappeared from your watch and phone... weird).
Easy. Then you switch banks to a bank that allows choice and allows you to choose Apple Pay. Most banks would be wary to do that as they would lose a lot of iPhone customers.
I haven't looked into those camera claims, so can't really speak to them. I carry insurance for my computing devices (super-cheap on the homeowner's policy, btw), so any repairs are getting done correctly, or the device gets recycled and replaced.
The very last thing I want is to be forced to use some sh***y app from an untrusted source with access to information that I don't want gathered or sold.
Here's some relevant information about Apple Pay:
How Apple Pay keeps users’ purchases protected
Apple Pay transactions use the Secure Element and NFC controller to keep users’ purchases and data protected.
In the same way that you can switch to whatever phone lets you use third-party payment apps. Here's the thing, not enough people even want to do that for there to be a real market for it.
It‘s not theirs...it’s yours! You own the NFC device in your phone.
But why would you be forced to use some ***** app? No one is saying open up NFC and shut down Apple Pay. They're saying open up NFC and allow more apps along with Apple Pay. Then let the consumer choose what they want to use.I haven't looked into those camera claims, so can't really speak to them. I carry insurance for my computing devices (super-cheap on the homeowner's policy, btw), so any repairs are getting done correctly, or the device gets recycled and replaced.
The very last thing I want is to be forced to use some sh***y app from an untrusted source with access to information that I don't want gathered or sold.
Here's some relevant information about Apple Pay:
How Apple Pay keeps users’ purchases protected
Apple Pay transactions use the Secure Element and NFC controller to keep users’ purchases and data protected.support.apple.com
I haven't looked into those camera claims, so can't really speak to them. I carry insurance for my computing devices (super-cheap on the homeowner's policy, btw), so any repairs are getting done correctly, or the device gets recycled and replaced.
The very last thing I want is to be forced to use some sh***y app from an untrusted source with access to information that I don't want gathered or sold.
Here's some relevant information about Apple Pay:
How Apple Pay keeps users’ purchases protected
Apple Pay transactions use the Secure Element and NFC controller to keep users’ purchases and data protected.
Is This the End of the Repairable iPhone?
It might be a bug, or it might be a sign of an even more locked-down future. Why the iPhone 12’s faulty camera has us worried.
www.ifixit.com
I don't know if its exactly the Secure Enclave but the cameras are tied into some other chip in the iPhone and the only way to repair or replace a broken camera in the new iPhones is to use proprietary Apple software/hardware
Because NFC is dangerous to allow unfettered access and as I said, I CHOOSE APPLE knowing that I am restricted to ApplePay. I have no desire to use Samsung pay or Google Wallet. If I wanted to use those, I would get their product.
I can’t use onstar in a VW. Let’s harass VW about that. Why should I have to choose to to be locked into VW Car-Net? VW isn’t a monopoly you say? NEITHER IS APPLE. Not even close.
Then the market will fix itself. Apple can open up the NFC and if there's no market no one will use the third party apps and the banks will all shut their own apps down. Who knows if there's a market for it?
Is not TouchID and FaceID dangerous to allow unfettered access to? They are literally a scan of your fingerprint and a scan of your face. Why is it that every app that wants to can access those?
Sorry but I’m on Apples side on this one I wouldn’t want anyone else having access to the NFC chip as it only opens up for Fraud at least we know that Apple although may only be the one getting there cut from it it’s secure 100% secure so I side 100% with Apple on keeping a safe in other banks having access to it or other companies and apps. Banks in Australia tried to win this and have access to the NFC chip and lost Because they wanted to use their own software to make their own money no so they started their own programs and they didn’t work so now they’re changing over to Apple Pay because with the amount of phones out there why wouldn’t you would’ve been smarter in the first place I don’t always agree with Apple. But I’m on their side this time
What are you taking about? Every one of my cards allow contactless payments (aka- nfc), and consequently has a chip.
But you're ok with every app on your phone having access to a scan of your fingerprint or a scan of your face. And FYI just because an app has NFC access doesn't mean it would have access to the NFC chip UNLESS you allow it. If you don't want a bank's app to have access to the NFC chip in your phone. Cool, easy just don't install the app or allow it access. It's that easy and you can keep using Apple Pay. No harm, no foul. But you don't speak for every consumer out there fortunately.
Dude seriously. Try to keep up. He was saying why won't his contactless payment card allow Apple Pay to be used on the card. For that to happen the card would have to physically have an Apple Pay chip in the card.
Nope. He was absolutely confounded by the ability to ‘cut out a bit of a plastic card and put some technology in it’
"They can put NFC right in their credit card....which some have done. Apple is locked out. I bet I cannot use Apple Pay on their credit card."
The original statement. Wondering why I can't use Apple Pay directly on my card. Thus needing an Apple chip to be placed in the card.