Dutch Court Orders Apple to Replace Customer's Broken iPhone With New, Not Refurbished, Model

[JayLenochiniMac]

Just as an example that stands for the US: Someone spilling hot coffee over himself and then suing the coffee shop for serving hot coffee? And you are really calling Europe a nanny state? LOL.

I don't agree with it either, but Europe is way more nanny when it comes to "customer protection" laws.

 

[MH01]

Awesome all the people trying to explain refurbished is better than new.

 

[LUIGICDN]

Is there any evidence to show that refurb iPhones are in any objective way inferior to 'new' iPhones?
Function? Appearance? Lifespan?

Or is it all in the perception?

Solution is simple: have a look at a brand new iPhone and a refurbished one and tell me the difference : IMPOSSIBLE to detect, even by the European judge!

 

[Mlrollin91]

That's extremely incorrect. But nice try.

Each refurb model goes through individual testing, instead of random units off the assembly line. So there is the likelihood that the quality of a refurb is higher than a new unit. I have never once had a problem with a refurb unit, but have had countless problems with NIB models. I have even gone out of my way to request a refurb within 14 days vs. a new boxed unit.

 

[CarlJ]

So, she used the phone for 9 months, and then it broke. Her used iPhone broke. How do either she or the court justify the idea that she should be entitled to a shiny new one as a replacement for what was a nine-month-old iPhone? A refurb should be no worse than her previous phone (prior to it breaking).

 

[MH01]

News have new batteries
Refurbs have new batteries AND better assembly

Better assembly then new....newer eh.

 

[peterh988]

When your dishwasher or fridge breaks down, do you demand a brand new one rather than repair it?

If so, you can look forward to Apple jacking up the prices if you live in one of those countries. You can't even tell if the remanufactured device isn't new.

+1

Or it could result, instead of walking into an Apple Store with a faulty phone and walking out with a working, refurbished one indistinguishable from new, in the phone being sent away for examination before deciding how to proceed ("We'll let you know our findings in six to eight weeks")

Be careful what you wish for.

 

[CarlJ]

Since everyone is suing Apple these days, I was thinking of suing Apple in regards to their App Store.

I would like to see them adding preferences to the Apple Store where I could go directly to the UPDATES section without having to deal with the forced advertisement in the features section. LOL

I'm planning to sue Apple for not having a friendly "Click here to sue us now" button on the front page of their website - it's so inconsiderate of them.
[doublepost=1468362541][/doublepost]

Just as an example that stands for the US: Someone spilling hot coffee over himself and then suing the coffee shop for serving hot coffee?

Look further into the case you're referring to: the coffee was kept at a dangerously high temperature (not just "oh, that's pretty hot", but literally scalding hot), because doing so was economically beneficial to McDonalds.

 

[LUIGICDN]

H

Awesome all the people trying to explain refurbished is better than new.

How can you tell the difference if they do not disclose to you whether it is new or refurbished?

 

[SBlue1]

Well... I've replaced a lot of Apple products over the years, but never had to replace the refurb replacements. Anecdote I know, but I suspect the refurb process involves a once-over that catches problems not caught in the initial build.

I owned a lot of Apple products over the last 20 years and can say refurbs are getting worse. Maybe Apple product QC in general got worse. I had a few refubished products that failed within a month or two like my iPhone 5 (got two replacements) and two Airport Extreme (bought both as refurbished and both failed once as well).

 

[QuarterSwede]

Just as an example that stands for the US: Someone spilling hot coffee over himself and then suing the coffee shop for serving hot coffee? And you are really calling Europe a nanny state? LOL.

Bad example. The lady who sued McDonalds didn't. It was the lawyers who did and used her as the example. They had proof McDonalds was intentionally scalding people's mouths so they wouldn't taste their bad coffee. She just happened to have a strong enough example to win so they used her.
[doublepost=1468362902][/doublepost]I'll admit to being one that has had far better luck with Apples refurbs than their new products. I've had all of my new products develop issues while none of my refurb ones have. I don't know if it matters but I don't use AppleCare online or over the phone. I always go in to a store for AppleCare or buy a refurb from their online refurb site.

 

[macfacts]

Nope, don't own any stocks. I'm a US citizen who think the US is quickly becoming more and more nanny like the European Union.

Do you also think it is awesome when corporations put cellulose (wood fiber) in baby milk powder?

 

[thats all folks]

When your dishwasher or fridge breaks down, do you demand a brand new one rather than repair it?

If so, you can look forward to Apple jacking up the prices if you live in one of those countries. You can't even tell if the remanufactured device isn't new.

Enjoy living in your nanny state (and pay for it).

I would want a new one. If the device gives out before its intended operational life, it was defective. sure, sometimes a repair is a solution but often, a repaired item is a compromised item (especially when you factor in who often does the repair). we can argue that a reconditioned Apple product is good as new, but no one can make a law that treats Apple differently than all other companies.

the US is far from a nanny state. consumer protections have been steadily eroded for many years. ever go through binding arbitration with an arbitrator of the manufacturer's choosing. or try using the lifetime warranty on small household items. the cost of shipping both ways (that is on you) is often higher than the cost of just buying a new one (oh, but you didn't save the box?).

 

[dmylrea]

It's too bad the article doesn't state on what grounds the court found that the terms of service that the woman indirectly agreed to by activating her iPhone were not binding in this case. I'm curious what the judge found that made him/her feel the woman deserved a new iPhone?

 

[cameronjpu]

Lol. I've had two replacement iPhones from Apple, both refurbs, that were in perfect condition.

My brand new 4s was shipped with a broken haptic motor and my 5s shipped with dirt under the screen. The refurbs of both were flawless.

Your logic is flawed. It's 99.9% of new iPhones are perfect, then one out of every thousand will be bad. That means one person out of 1 million will get to flawed ones out of the box.

On the other hand, a refurbished phone has some problem, at which point it is returned to Apple and that problem repaired if Apple can pin it down and be certain of how to fix it. That might leave 98% of refurbished phones in perfect condition.

If you have the bad luck of having to faulty new phones, the odds are still vastly in your favor that the two replacement phones you get in exchange will be perfect. That doesn't mean, imply, or even suggest that refurbished phones are better than new phones or more reliable. It's just math playing in your favor.

 

[JayLenochiniMac]

I would want a new one. If the device gives out before its intended operational life, it was defective. sure, sometimes a repair is a solution but often, a repaired item is a compromised item (especially when you factor in who often does the repair). we can argue that a reconditioned Apple product is good as new, but no one can make a law that treats Apple differently than all other companies.

the US is far from a nanny state. consumer protections have been steadily eroded for many years. ever go through binding arbitration with an arbitrator of the manufacturer's choosing. or try using the lifetime warranty on small household items. the cost of shipping both ways (that is on you) is often higher than the cost of just buying a new one (oh, but you didn't save the box?).

So you actually demand a brand new dishwasher and fridge when it breaks down too?

 

[thats all folks]

I don't agree with it either, but Europe is way more nanny when it comes to "customer protection" laws.

the US way may not be the best, are food processors in Europe allowed to ship product contaminated with Salmonella and E-Coli?

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/15/business/15ingredients.html

sure, you can just heat your hot pockets to a temperature far beyond what you would consider reasonable, you should be safe then. probably. not my kind of dice roll.

 

[philipo_rock]

A judge in Amsterdam has ruled in favor of a Dutch woman [Google Translate] who sued Apple for refusing to replace her broken iPhone 6 Plus with a new model, and instead offering her a refurbished model as per its standard policy.

The court nullified the purchase agreement and ordered Apple to refund the woman the full EUR799 that she paid for the iPhone, which was purchased in December 2014 and stopped functioning nine months later in August 2015.

Apple being ordered to refund the purchase price plus interest and pay all of the woman's legal fees was specific to this case, but it is the precedent that could be set in the Netherlands and possibly elsewhere that is more important.

Apple's standard one-year limited warranty and extended AppleCare+ policies for iPhone in both the Netherlands and the U.S., and most other countries, explicitly state that repairs or exchanges may involve devices or parts that are either new or "equivalent to new in performance and reliability," otherwise known as refurbished.

It is common practice for Apple to replace defective iPhones with a refurbished model consisting of both new and recycled parts, and only rarely does the company provide a brand new replacement on a case-by-case situation. The court's decision in Amsterdam, however, could force Apple to change its policies.

The court filing in the Netherlands does not indicate if Apple plans to appeal the decision, but it would not be unprecedented for the company to exhaust all avenues in an effort to overturn the ruling. Apple has not publicly commented on the matter.

In 2011, facing pressure from regulators, Apple revised its warranty replacement policy for iPhones sold in South Korea, offering customers returning their defective phones within the first month of ownership the option of receiving a brand new replacement rather than refurbished units as had been standard policy.

(Thanks, Coen and Jasper!)

Article Link: Dutch Court Orders Apple to Replace Customer's Broken iPhone With New, Not Refurbished, Model

 

[JayLenochiniMac]

the US way may not be the best, are food processors in Europe allowed to ship product contaminated with Salmonella and E-Coli?

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/15/business/15ingredients.html

sure, you can just heat your hot pockets to a temperature far beyond what you would consider reasonable, you should be safe then. probably. not my kind of dice roll.

They're not "allowed" to, at least without consequences. You can be sure the FDA or the appropriate regulatory body will go after them, hard.

 

[2010mini]

That's extremely incorrect. But nice try.

Actually Apple refurbs are practically brand new. They just can't call them that.

 

[thats all folks]

So you actually demand a brand new dishwasher and fridge when it breaks down too?

I have at times found myself with a defective when new or nearly new product and in those situations, when a repair is offered, I pushed hard for a replacement with new. I cant (and I doubt any of us can) speak to the specifics of how the judgment in that case was arrived at. but as much as possible, when I pay for something and the manufacturer fails to deliver their end of the transaction, I want more than just gesture in return. Id rather not have to accept some lowest bidder contract repair person mucking around in my several hundred dollar purchase with two months left on the warranty.

 

[philipo_rock]

I had my factory unlocked 5S replaced by Apple with refurbished a couple of times - each of them failing (mainly screen or battery problems). The third replacement was a brand new one - they had to order it in and it took two weeks - even though the store had stock.

The brand new replacement was supposed to be unlocked too. It wasn't, something which I only discovered once I got to Moldova! Apple initially blamed it on all sorts of things, a few hapless people at Apple Ireland couldn't solve it and wasted a lot of time. Eventually a very helpful Apple person in the US took complete ownership of my case, escalated it and got the engineers in California to remotely unlock it (with a restore in iTunes) within 20 minutes! We were in personal email communication with several updates and follow-ups.

 

[JayLenochiniMac]

Actually Apple refurbs are practically brand new. They just can't call them that.

Well, they're not even refurbs. Remanufactured units are a totally different animal than refurbs, and the distractors here are insisting on calling them refurbs.
[doublepost=1468364865][/doublepost]

I had my factory unlocked 5S replaced by Apple with refurbished a couple of times - each of them failing (mainly screen or battery problems). The third replacement was a brand new one - they had to order it in and it took two weeks - even though the store had stock.

The brand new replacement was supposed to be unlocked too. It wasn't, something which I only discovered once I got to Moldova! Apple initially blamed it on all sorts of things, a few hapless people at Apple Ireland couldn't solve it and wasted a lot of time. Eventually a very helpful Apple person in the US took complete ownership of my case, escalated it and got the engineers in California to remotely unlock it (with a restore in iTunes) within 20 minutes! We were in personal email communication with several updates and follow-ups.

Irrelevant. They've screwed up unlocking brand new units too.

 

[robjulo]

LOL. Macrumors, the one place where hipsters will set aside their anti-corporate beliefs in defense of the almighty, do-no-wrong, Apple.

 

[thats all folks]

They're not "allowed" to, at least without consequences. You can be sure the FDA or the appropriate regulatory body will go after them, hard.

they actually are allowed, that is why I posted the article. the USDA has approved the "heat to 165 degrees" labeling. that action is supposed to kill all the pathogens the food ships with. an unreasonable expectation as 165 is a lot hotter than necessary to bring your average frozen dinner to eatable temps and difficult to do evenly through the whole item.

so basically, Con Agra, Hormel, Swanson... are allowed to sell contaminated processed foods because they ship with instructions for dealing with the contamination.

Imagine if the sign in the bathrooms at restaurants was, "Employees are unlikely to keep their hands clean so please be prepared to decontaminate any items you purchase from us." That is effectively what you have in the frozen food aisle.
[doublepost=1468365200][/doublepost]

Well, they're not even refurbs. Remanufactured units are a totally different animal than refurbs, and the distractors here are insisting on calling them refurbs.

we will all insist on calling them refurbs as that is what Apple calls them,
http://www.apple.com/shop/browse/home/specialdeals/mac