The problem people will have with not being able to open FCP 7 projects is not that. Nobody would switch application in the middle of a project, that's just nonsense. But assume that you completed a project today, and a year later your client asks you to iterate on that project and change a small thing. You'll have to keep a FCP 7 install for stuff like that which is not really nice.
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Early Final Cut Pro X Response Mixed, Updates Coming
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The problem people will have with not being able to open FCP 7 projects is not that. Nobody would switch application in the middle of a project, that's just nonsense. But assume that you completed a project today, and a year later your client asks you to iterate on that project and change a small thing. You'll have to keep a FCP 7 install for stuff like that which is not really nice.
It's not exactly the same situation but Adobe did something worse when they acquired Macromedia. They immediately discontinued Freehand, because they had Illustrator and maintaining two vector graphics software wasn't financially viable. But there were as many Freehand users out there as there were Illustrator users. So basically they said "we don't give a **** about you, learn Illustrator". Illustrator did have limited import on Freehand projects but it didn't work 100% due to Freehand having more page making capabilities than Illustrator. So certain things couldn't be imported.
For Adobe, Illustrator was the new Freehand people had to learn and adapt. And they could do this because there weren't any alternatives to Illustrator.
There is the main problem.
You can't use reality distortion field sales tactics on pros to deflect problems.
These guys and gals are pure pragmatists. The only language pro's will understand is no-bull***t straight talk by laying your cards on the table.
Because at the end of the day only the result counts for them. Therefore Pro's don't give a rats behind where the software comes from - as long as it does the job well and within deadline. Software is just a tool. Sentimentalities or fandom won't bring you bread on the table. But your skills and good working tools will.
If Apple doesn't get these simple facts, they obviously have not much respect for their target customers, nor enough understanding how people in the professional world of broadcasting, film and video really tick...
Exactly.
And Apple, at the NAB Supermeet showed a project that was created in FCP7, and compared how it looked in FCPX, and presented it in a way that could be inferred that a FCP7 project would open in FCPX.
Shame on all of us that believed that. Yup, I guess we are the fools, not Apple.
Yeah, I also gave that example. Then again, maybe it wasn't done to "trick" us. Most probably Apple wants to have a FCP 7 import, and maybe they had that functionality in that build, but it had issues so it didn't make into the release build.
Yeah but for that same reason, Pro's also don't switch immediately just because something like this happened. Because they know perfectly well that they can keep using FCP 7 for a longer while because like you said, for them, the software is just a tool and they can do pretty much the same work using any software capable enough, which FCP 7 is, despite the issues and shortcomings.
Well put.
If you want to get another POV: http://magazine.creativecow.net/article/final-cut-pro-x-whats-missing-for-some-pros
"If you are a one man band or never have the need to collaborate with anyone else or ever open any of your old FCP projects, then this is for you. Especially if you have never used a non linear editing system before. Otherwise, you'd be best to either steer clear of this application, or download it to use for your home movies and private projects. Steve Jobs was wrong. This is not "awesome." Not even close."
And a great podcast that sums up the problems that "pro" users are facing: http://podcasts.creativecow.net/final-cut-studio-podcast/why-we-cant-use-final-cut-pro-x-at-our-companies
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Apple==disappointment
Apple has been a disappointment the last 4 years anyway...
Oh dear Apple. WTF is goin on in Cupertino these days?????? Disastrous update to TC and AEBS yesterday, still using C2D chips in the MBA, Macmini, I dread to think what the new MacPro will look like.
There is no excuse for not delivering a complete package. There are a lot of Pros on the reviews who are very much disappointed at this release. Seems its a iMovie Plus and missing a lot of older features that are still needed today?
To simply say 'Oh we will add them later isnt really what PRO users want to hear is it?? Apple had enough time to get this right and had they listened to PRO users instead of the bloke who made iMovie (because that app was just great, amazing and overall fun!) then it would be stopping a lot of Pros heading off to buy Adobe's option right about now.
Its news like this that is making me feel that Apple is really not making the grade this year. The thing thats impressed me most isnt the Lion unveil or new iMacs its those Google Chromebooks. That seems to be where the future is and Google seems to be screaming ahead right about now. hell Ive even stopped using Safari because Chrome blasts it outta the water.
Somebody needs to start kicking arse at Cupertino. And quickly.
Apple has been a disappointment the last 4 years anyway...
LoL I wish I could have half of that disappointment in my life, how many billions does that make again?
I know continuing this if off topic...
Adds a lot of credence to the "like" button concept. It just seems like the equivalent of talking in all caps. There are a lot of ways to use a 5 star scale-- start at 3 and add stars for unexpected pleasantries and subtract them for bugs and bad design choices. I've seen reviews where they treat the last couple stars as a future reward to developers who respond to feedback.
I look at 4 as "like", 5 as "love", 2 is "dislike", 1 is "hate" and if I really need to think for more than a few seconds, it's a 3.
Mainly I find it interesting as a psychological phenomenon-- people have the opportunity to moderate their response, and they all gravitate to the rails. I think it's because people don't see their individual star rating as meaningful-- they are attempting to pull the consensus rating toward where they feel it should be, so they're maximizing their leverage.
That then is a self reenforcing phenomenon-- once the nuanced people see their input being essentially down-weighted, the need to respond in kind to compensate.
Which means a 2 star system is really all we need.
No, there's no reason I needed to choose this thread for my musings... Sorry for the diversion.
This was totally off topic, but also it was the most interesting post I've seen in this thread so far.
True, and which is why I don't have much love for Apple's methods of communication in regards to a lot of hardware and software, and none whatsoever for many of the tech reviewers/bloggists that had the opportunity to sit right there in front of an Apple engineer or a working model and not test it out or poke and prod around.
All very true indeed. Every version of Final Cut Pro since ver3 (when I started) never took key features away, especially features that existed in the competing product. Multi-cam is key, opening previous versions is as well, and it really does beg the question, "what happened here Apple?"
I know I was about to plunk down the $400 for the update, but that's just because I forgot about the price one would pay for being a Beta tester. I'd rather pay $600-$1000 for a real upgrade from FCStudio 3.
This was totally off topic, but also it was the most interesting post I've seen in this thread so far.
+1
@Analog Kid, good insight.
I think what happened is fairly obvious. Apple took on a job which they thought they could finish in time, and they couldn't. They said "Ok this is release ready even with all this missing stuff, let's market this now we'll plug the holes later".
The blame is not on the development team here, if they couldn't finish this in time, it's not their fault. Marketing and Sales is at fault here, deciding to sell this product without actually making people aware that it's missing key features.
Actually yes you can use multiple cameras so does that mean Im a pro?
I think you better figure out what a pro means first before jumping on me like that
p.s. to be precise, you can use numerous clips of any type up to 12 to switch between cuts in (yea right) real time.
Ahhh....What?
if that's the case, it never should have been released
Seriously, being able to import projects from the previous release should be an absolute requirement before shipping a new version of a product. (And can the "but 'X' is a new product" nonsense right now, FCPX is the latest version of FCP.)
Apple doesn't need "haters" to damage their image, Apple is skilled at damaging it themselves.
The kids with Ipods and Iphones won't see any problems, but the real pros who've stuck with Apple (even after the inexplicable cancelling of the XServe) may find this to be the last straw.
Seriously, being able to import projects from the previous release should be an absolute requirement before shipping a new version of a product. (And can the "but 'X' is a new product" nonsense right now, FCPX is the latest version of FCP.)
Apple doesn't need "haters" to damage their image, Apple is skilled at damaging it themselves.
The kids with Ipods and Iphones won't see any problems, but the real pros who've stuck with Apple (even after the inexplicable cancelling of the XServe) may find this to be the last straw.
Breathe People
The veracity of a lot of the comments on here is pretty appalling.
Look, I have my issues with Apple and they are definitely not sacrosanct in my book by any stretch of the imagination, but if you purchase x.0 of any product you really have no one to blame but yourselves.
I have learned the hard way, trust me. The first edition Macbooks were a prime example at learning my lesson when the stakes were much higher for me financially.
Doing your homework before you make a purchase is part of putting your big boy pants on and being part of the adult world. If you watched the video presentation floating around the web, and are still aghast that it looks like iMovie Pro to you, and you still bought it, then it is on you and not Apple. If you decide to take your chances, that's part of life. Deal with it.
If you're not asking questions about how the program will mesh with and affect your work flow, only to find out that there are issues on the back end, again, whose fault is that? It's easy to act like the victim, hide behind your computer, and stomp your foot when Santa Steve doesn't give you exactly what you want the first time out.
Apple has done a good job about making their products all about "me, me, me" and unfortunately at times that can translate into something that isn't very pretty on the part of Apple fanboys.
Be part of the solution. Give constructive feedback. Don't act like you've just been jilted by your high school crush. It's really unbecoming.
The veracity of a lot of the comments on here is pretty appalling.
Look, I have my issues with Apple and they are definitely not sacrosanct in my book by any stretch of the imagination, but if you purchase x.0 of any product you really have no one to blame but yourselves.
I have learned the hard way, trust me. The first edition Macbooks were a prime example at learning my lesson when the stakes were much higher for me financially.
Doing your homework before you make a purchase is part of putting your big boy pants on and being part of the adult world. If you watched the video presentation floating around the web, and are still aghast that it looks like iMovie Pro to you, and you still bought it, then it is on you and not Apple. If you decide to take your chances, that's part of life. Deal with it.
If you're not asking questions about how the program will mesh with and affect your work flow, only to find out that there are issues on the back end, again, whose fault is that? It's easy to act like the victim, hide behind your computer, and stomp your foot when Santa Steve doesn't give you exactly what you want the first time out.
Apple has done a good job about making their products all about "me, me, me" and unfortunately at times that can translate into something that isn't very pretty on the part of Apple fanboys.
Be part of the solution. Give constructive feedback. Don't act like you've just been jilted by your high school crush. It's really unbecoming.
Believe it or not, importing projects from last version is less important than other missing features.
Whether it should be an absolute requirement, I don't know.
You are really trolling here. What does kids with iPods and iPhones have anything to do with this topic? Do they use FCP X? Do they buy FCP X? No.
I don't think there's any "last straw" situation here. Nobody is forcing people to buy this today.
How is it different going from Mac OS 9 to OS X than FCP7 to FCPX?
If anything FCP7 to X signifies more of a change for me!
Perhaps you're right - I'm looking at it from the perspective of a Windows user. We expect a new release to be mostly compatible with the current release - and if there are some incompatibilities, for those to be listed and justified.
Look at Office 2007. It introduced new file formats. But, not only was it able to read old formats, Microsoft created an update so that older Office software could import the newer formats.
That's the kind of support that professionals expect.
The "kids with Ipods and Iphones" era marked the end of Apple Computer Inc. It can't be put any more concisely than that - and nothing is more germane to the topic than that.
Take a photo of a busy Apple Store. Erase all the "kids with Ipods and Iphones". It looks pretty empty, doesn't it?
Again, that's not the point!!!!!
The program is called FINAL CUT PRO TEN. It was recently marketed and promised for years as FINAL CUT PRO.
What they released yesterday is NOT Final Cut Pro. It is NOT a professional tool. As of right now, Apple does not sell a professional video editor.
These "little" things have large affects on BUSINESS PLANS. TIME. MONEY.
Do you get it now?
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When you rewrite an app, which basically has nothing to do with the old app, importing old files is really tricky because the new app doesn't have the same functionality as the old app and doesn't know what to do with the projects, which do carry the functionality that was scrapped. So the importing would become "converting". So my guess is due to so many changes, importing became tricky. I still believe Apple will come up with some converter for it. But like I said, it's really not the highest priority at this point because nobody would switch to the new version in the middle of a project. Not being able to open old projects would become problematic, when the client wants something small done on an old project, so the editor would have to keep a FCP 7 install on the side for that.
Again, Apple is not the only software company who have done this. Adobe did worse with the Freehand to Illustrator nightmare.
Well, without the kids and the iPods, Apple would have already bankrupted, so in a way, it's related yes, but not related to this topic. If Apple wanted to abandon this Pro app, they would have simply discontinued it. Not spend more money than before to rewrite it.
I was at the Paris Apple store two days ago, I sat down on the corner waiting for my train, for 3 hours. It was quite crowded, and the age average of the crowd seemed around 30's. I didn't see any kids. The youngest people I've seen were in their 20's, there was some older folk in their 50's or so.
To further explain real-world implications to those that aren't getting it:
I have dozens of clients that come to my studio to edit, and because there is no I/O monitoring, we literally cannot edit on Final Cut with them. The new program is useless to my business.
So, is I/O ever coming to Final Cut? If not, I can never use it, and I should start investing in new software/hardware and finding other employees. If it is, then when? 2 weeks? Six months? One year? Two years?
Ok, so I can continue to use Final Cut 7. They stopped selling it, but are they discontinuing support for it, like for new/evolving codecs? Will it work with Lion in a month?
Will Apple address these questions? If so, when? If not, why not? Other companies, like Adobe, give roadmaps.
All of these questions impact time and money - business.
I have dozens of clients that come to my studio to edit, and because there is no I/O monitoring, we literally cannot edit on Final Cut with them. The new program is useless to my business.
So, is I/O ever coming to Final Cut? If not, I can never use it, and I should start investing in new software/hardware and finding other employees. If it is, then when? 2 weeks? Six months? One year? Two years?
Ok, so I can continue to use Final Cut 7. They stopped selling it, but are they discontinuing support for it, like for new/evolving codecs? Will it work with Lion in a month?
Will Apple address these questions? If so, when? If not, why not? Other companies, like Adobe, give roadmaps.
All of these questions impact time and money - business.