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Early Final Cut Pro X Response Mixed, Updates Coming

dethmaShine said:
I guess that is the problem with most people.

People just cannot appreciate a change. They just cannot get accustomed to a new workflow. No wonder, people buy the same Adobe premiere version every year.

Good work.
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You're wrong people appreciate change when it's useful and makes sense. (look at ProRes workflows, or Tapeless formats) Change for the sake of change does not present benefits.


kingtj said:
Yes. Yes, I do - in many cases. The film-making industry is a magnet for people with this type of personality, so it shouldn't really shock anyone.
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You're talking from your years of experience mingling with these people right? Come on!

kingtj said:
Look, I'd see this a bit differently if Apple had somehow DISABLED your ability to use older versions of FCP and demanded that starting NOW, you use NOTHING but FCP X - and were required to delete all of your work made in the past with anything else.
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I mean really? Who said that old projects will become unusable? Everyone knows you can keep your FCP 7 installation. However, no one right now can buy Final Cut Pro 7 . If they were just now starting collaboration with a Post house with FCP 7 projects they'll have no other solution than to buy it from ebay or make do with XML exports (with their quirks) and forced to buy Premiere.

And Please stop using analogies like USB 3.0 they have nothing to do with Final Cut and by the way not every decision Apple makes is correct, it just isn't possible. Just because Thunderbolt is great (which I agree it is) does not mean USB 3.0 sucks, we're not kids here.

linuxcooldude said:
No, your getting a DIFFERENT product that has a lot of new features FCP7 never had
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Listen all I'm saying is if you've never used the feature set Final Cut Pro 7 has you probably do not understand the "lesser" argument, it's all there is to it.
 
I'm so sad, fcpx is not professional software

:( I'm sad, I'm crying, the new "Final Cut Pro X" is not professional any more, Univision Network is change it to Avid again, I'm mac guys I love mac but the new "Final Cut Pro X" is not Final Cut Pro is iMovie, first is the price 299 is to low, every body can buy it, second one we can not use multi cameras, I can use my external monitor any more, I'm sorry guys but you lose me.
 
first is the price 299 is to low, every body can buy it
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What does it matter that most people can afford it? Afraid some teenager is going to take your job away? Takes a lot more then price to make a good video professional.
 
linuxcooldude said:
What does it matter that most people can afford it? Afraid some teenager is going to take your job away? Takes a lot more then price to make a good video professional.
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so true, I teach FCP at local college. sure its cute when a 16 year old comes up with this amazing video but then the go thru life and by 18 they pretty well have lost interest and found something else. experienced this when I was asked to instruct a few high schools on animation and video years ago. years later I can only count one student out of the 100's that Ive met continuing this field.
 
linuxcooldude said:
What does it matter that most people can afford it? Afraid some teenager is going to take your job away? Takes a lot more then price to make a good video professional.
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Except your missing the point completely, the $299 price point shows right off the bat that it is not intended for professionals, Final Cut has always been $999 or somewhere give or take $100, and Adobe CS 1-4 were always $1799 now CS5 is $1899 (xtra $100 for all the hard work involved keeping PowerPC support) Adobe is never going to lower the price, it will only grow higher, for non professionals or amateurs they have Photoshop Elements and whatever else you can buy at whatever big box store, Adobe doesn't care that $1799 is going to scare away the pro-am consumer market, because it is intended for professionals, $1799 is nothing when each typeface family costs $400-$2000, times that by 1000 or 100, and you see that professionals spend 10, 20, 50 times more than any iphone ipad iamateur who just downloaded the new zero day torrent of whatever apple is offering on his brand new shiny mac mini server. For a real professional photographer your canon MarkI or II's have always been $5000+ no lenses, want nice lenses try adding $500-$1000 for each one, the same goes for audio and video, **** my protools hd card costs $5000 alone, just so it can communicate with another $8000 device, so if your too ignorant to comprehend everyone's bitching about Apple leaving the PRO market to cater towards the iToy market you clearly have no comprehension as to what the pro market is, professionals and the schools that are in professional creative majors have been apples back bone for the last 20+ years, without them there would be no ipad or ipod or iphone or an Apple for the fact of that matter.
 
drorpheus said:
...professionals and the schools that are in professional creative majors have been apple's back bone for the last 20+ years, without them there would be no ipad or ipod or iphone or an Apple for the fact of that matter.
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Yes, it will be interesting to see what happens when these professionals move on to other platforms. Apple offers them little today - and even worse, Apple doesn't seem interested in tomorrow offering them even the pittance that they get today.

But, FCPX will surely make a ton of money from grandmothers editing cat videos for Youtube. The Apple fans will point out quarterly profits to prove that abandoning the pro market was the right thing to do.
 
AidenShaw said:
Yes, it will be interesting to see what happens when these professionals move on to other platforms. Apple offers them little today - and even worse, Apple doesn't seem interested in tomorrow offering them even the pittance that they get today.

But, FCPX will surely make a ton of money from grandmothers editing cat videos for Youtube. The Apple fans will point out quarterly profits to prove that abandoning the pro market was the right thing to do.
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Well, if it maximizes long-term profits...
 
drorpheus said:
Except your missing the point completely, the $299 price point shows right off the bat that it is not intended for professionals...
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hmm sorry but that is not always true. just because its pro dont mean you can charge an arm and a leg for it.
now just imagine if they did charge 995USD for this release.
same argument?
doubtful IMHO.
I was there when I had to justify an SGI Onyx for 375k, an SGI O2 for 250k, Alias|Wavefront PowerAnimator at 100k, etc...
Now tell me that my recent BOXX 8400 at 8k is not a pro box or current Maya seat at 4k not up fo snuff?
Now lets see, Final Cut Studio with all the fixings 995, only because it used to be in pieces at almost 500 a piece.
We can argue everything else about FCPX being not pro but the price should never be the case.
 
Except your missing the point completely, the $299 price point shows right off the bat that it is not intended for professionals...
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While I can't substantiate this, but have been hearing when Final Cut Pro came out for the very first time, it originally sold for $300.00. That was right before they decided to bundle it as a suite and then charge $1000.00 for it.
 
linuxcooldude said:
While I can't substantiate this, but have been hearing when Final Cut Pro came out for the very first time, it originally sold for $300.00. That was right before they decided to bundle it as a suite and then charge $1000.00 for it.
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Final Cut went thru a few changes in pricing. At one point DVD Studio Pro alone was 700USD.
 
Except your missing the point completely, the $299 price point shows right off the bat that it is not intended for professionals...
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Actually, I might change my mind on this one. This is after looking back in 1999 when it was first released. Was looking at all the advertizing in 1999. Apple advertized it more as a semi-professional software for a more affordable price. Now its going back to its roots after the rewrite and aiming for the same market.

But it will probably start adding more pro features as time goes on, just like it did after version 1.0 in the 1990's.

So it seems perhaps it was NEVER intended for the Pro market.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KS6pjJ4eiVY
 
I have an iMac G4 with Final Cut Pro 5.1 and Mac OS X 10.5. On an earlier version of Final Cut Pro and Mac OS X I did an animation at 480i and had random glitches from time to time. Given my current setup, do I need to upgrade in order to be able to HD animation?
 
linuxcooldude said:
...So it seems perhaps it was NEVER intended for the Pro market...
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at that time we were looking at FCP, Media100 and Premiere on SGI's first venture into Intel (which was the end for them). We went with Media100 since it was already proven. I had a hard time believing that DV format was close to NTSC D1 format. I mean the sizing was even off by 6 pixels :) Haha was I wrong :p
Oh well years later ;)
 
AidenShaw said:
But, FCPX will surely make a ton of money from grandmothers editing cat videos for Youtube. The Apple fans will point out quarterly profits to prove that abandoning the pro market was the right thing to do.
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So I suppose continuing to support a small portion of the market with a niche product so that you can make minimal money is much better than catering your product to a large audience and making more profit right?

I understand why some "pros" get upset at apple when they abandon the market in favor of the "pro-sumer" but come on, get over yourselves.... if you owned a business, you would be a retard not to do the same things.
 
Assuming that Apple put all the functionality back in that they have currently left out (which is what most insiders seem to think) can anyone remember a time when people complained so much about software being too cheap? It's certainly not a hot topic on the Adobe forums! Luckily for me I run my own small business which means I will need to buy two copies of everything adding up to a professional sounding £750 or so... ;)
 
linuxcooldude said:
While I can't substantiate this, but have been hearing when Final Cut Pro came out for the very first time, it originally sold for $300.00. That was right before they decided to bundle it as a suite and then charge $1000.00 for it.
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FCP used to be $999 by itself. Cinema Tools was another $999. Eventually CT was bundled w/FCP and other stand alone apps showed up (DVD SP, Sound Track, Compressor, Motion, etc.,). For one generation they were sold all stand alone as well as in a suite called the Production Suite. The next product cycle had all the apps bundled into the Final Cut Studio Suite and they were no longer available for individual sale.


xxBURT0Nxx said:
So I suppose continuing to support a small portion of the market with a niche product so that you can make minimal money is much better than catering your product to a large audience and making more profit right?

I understand why some "pros" get upset at apple when they abandon the market in favor of the "pro-sumer" but come on, get over yourselves.... if you owned a business, you would be a retard not to do the same things.
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There are thousands of successful companies that go after niche markets. Avid, Adobe, The Foundry, Autodesk, RED, Convergent Design, Arri, Red Giant, AJA, Blackmagic Design, Panavision, Filmlight, Telestream, Anton/Bauer, Zacuto... That's just a handful of companies in the post/production field off the top of my head. Not everyone's goal is to make broad spectrum products for the masses and I think we should all be thankful for that.


Lethal
 
What I find so mind boggling is, that Apple invited some profile editors to demo their new FCP X a few months ago. So it seems to me, that Apple has still an interest to cater for the professional market as well - but yet misses the target by a mile. They surely can't be that isolated in Cupertino, can they? :confused:

Apple has huge financial resources. One would think some of the resources would be used to hire some creative and talented minds around Randy and come up with a truly 'awesome' software :confused:

And if - for some strange reason - the group around Randy had limited resources, wouldn't it have been better (as some people suggested) to promote this software as Final Cut X as a replacement for FCE? And after a few months of collecting feedback, implementing pro features and generally polishing the application, publish a 'true' FCPX. :cool:
 
Uhhhh...

mBox said:
I was there when I had to justify an SGI Onyx for 375k, an SGI O2 for 250k, Alias|Wavefront PowerAnimator at 100k, etc...
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How in the world did an O2 cost a quarter of a million dollars? Those things were on the low end of SGI's offerings. Did you mean Onyx2?
 
There are thousands of successful companies that go after niche markets. Avid, Adobe, The Foundry, Autodesk, RED, Convergent Design, Arri, Red Giant, AJA, Blackmagic Design, Panavision, Filmlight, Telestream, Anton/Bauer, Zacuto... That's just a handful of companies in the post/production field off the top of my head. Not everyone's goal is to make broad spectrum products for the masses and I think we should all be thankful for that.
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To make enough money in such a small niche market as a big company you have to price your products accordingly. Thats why they cater to the high end market. Its not just a $999 price point but often in the tens of thousands of dollars range.

To be able to charge a smaller price you have to appeal to a larger mass market of people.
 
I bought the Ripple Training series on FCPX before I bought it so I could get a handle on what's in there and what's not as well as see it in action and there are some things that really have me excited about it and things that mystify me.

The Color Correction portion of FCPX looks horrible. Near as I can tell it's either the auto-correction filter or you've got to play around with sliders, I don't see a single dropper for sampling whites or blacks or anything in the footage. Did I miss something?

Mystifying.

I'm not even talking about comparing it to COLOR, I'm saying just the CC Filter in FCP 6 was better then this.

There's a lot of automatic effects filters and a lot of built in transitions and effects that look like great additions but (and I hate to say this because people have been beating this horse to death) yes, it feels like it's "iMovie Pro".

Apple needs to get some heavy hitter editor to get on Apple.com and do some video tutorials and talk about why it doesn't suck.

The shame is that now so many people are walking in with the preconception that it sucks and isn't for them before trying it.
 
OH! And to kill support and sales of FCP Studio 3 the same day --- that's crazy.


I saw an upgrade version of FCPS3 on ebay go for $400 yesterday. $100 more then it sold for a month ago direct from Apple.
 
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