Early Final Cut Pro X Response Mixed, Updates Coming

[iBug2]

Do you mean like normal intelligent people do?

People are not abnormal or stupid because they show loyalty, or equally, hatred towards a company. All these people are quite normal people in everyday lives with regular intelligence.

But when emotion takes over, intelligence doesn't matter much.

 

[NickFalk]

They also said the same with Final Cut. Randy said over and over that this was a new app redesigned from the ground up during his demo, and it wasn't Final Cut Pro 8.

I’m not really familiar with Randy. Apple is clearly selling this as Final Cut Pro. .

That being said I don’t feel too strongly about all this. I’ll pass for now as FCP 7 serves me fine for the time being. I think reworking the interface might be a good thing in the end. I’ll give it an update or two before I jump in.

 

[JabbaII]

FCPX is prob the only software in my experience that have a comparison chart with more dots (features) on the older version.

Usually software vendors sell on the point that new software has everything old one has got plus more.

Will wait for more reviews and decide in 6-12 months whether to get FCPX or switch to CS5.5.

 

[iBug2]

I’m not really familiar with Randy. Apple is clearly selling this as Final Cut Pro. .

That being said I don’t feel too strongly about all this. I’ll pass for now as FCP 7 serves me fine for the time being. I think reworking the interface might be a good thing in the end. I’ll give it an update or two before I jump in.

Randy Ubillos, the guy who gave the Final Cut Pro X demo in Supermeet, the guy who created the first 3 versions of Premiere and the first version of Final Cut Pro back when it belonged to Macromedia. He's the chief architect of video applications in Apple.

Who doesn't know who Randy is

And yes Apple is selling this as Final Cut Pro "X", EXACTLY like they sold Mac OS X as a Mac OS and didn't change the name but only the version.

 

[iBug2]

FCPX is prob the only software in my experience that have a comparison chart with more dots (features) on the older version.

Usually software vendors sell on the point that new software has everything old one has got plus more.

Will wait for more reviews and decide in 6-12 months whether to get FCPX or switch to CS5.5.

If that's the only software in your experience, I suppose you weren't an Apple user when they switched from OS 9 to OS X. Since 9 had more features than 10.0.

 

[BornAgainMac]

I am glad Apple rebooted Final Cut Pro. The new changes were needed and the price decreased for mere mortals. The pros can use Avid or Final Cut Pro on their old Powermac G5 or get a PC.

 

[Truffy]

Apple aren't exactly famous for their airtight x.0 releases, and I for one wasn't expecting this to be any different.

There's a difference between bugginess and lack of major features though.

 

[NickFalk]

Randy Ubillos, the guy who gave the Final Cut Pro X demo in Supermeet, the guy who created the first 3 versions of Premiere and the first version of Final Cut Pro back when it belonged to Macromedia. He's the chief architect of video applications in Apple.

Who doesn't know who Randy is

And yes Apple is selling this as Final Cut Pro "X", EXACTLY like they sold Mac OS X as a Mac OS and didn't change the name but only the version.

I have heard about Randy. It’s just find it a bit silly to quote stuff being said through somewhat obscure channels when the mother-ship does nothing to support these statements. As I’ve said I don’t feel too strongly about the changes.

I believe FCPX will be a fantastic product down the line and am sure the interface is already better than earlier versions. (No, I don’t buy into the iMovie arguments, and don’t think a more intuitive interface makes a program any less professional, quite the opposite actually).

 

[franbelda]

I also read that when the next version rolls in we'll have to pay the full app price again, there won't be any upgrade pricing to previous customers thanks to apple App store policy. This just keeps getting better and better... for Adobe and Avid.

 

[iBug2]

I have heard about Randy. It’s just find it a bit silly to quote stuff being said through somewhat obscure channels when the mother-ship does nothing to support these statements. As I’ve said I don’t feel too strongly about the changes.

I believe FCPX will be a fantastic product down the line and am sure the interface is already better than earlier versions. (No, I don’t buy into the iMovie arguments, and don’t think a more intuitive interface makes a program any less professional, quite the opposite actually).

Well, it's Apple. When it comes to these pro apps, obscure channels is all you get before the actual release.

I also think that with this new foundation on modern technologies, FCP X will be the standard on NLE in a year or so when Apple plugs the holes. None of the other NLE's on the market have received such a major rewrite (Premiere was rewritten in 2002 when it became Premiere Pro, but that was 9 years ago) and Avid never received such rewrite.

So in terms of performance, when you forget about the missing features, nothing will ever come close to the performance of this app, even today. And features can be added later without much issue, but the foundation of the app can't be changed the same way.

So "things will have to get worse before they get better" fits like a glove for this situation, exactly like OS 9 to OS X.

 

[iBug2]

I also read that when the next version rolls in we'll have to pay the full app price again, there won't be any upgrade pricing to previous customers thanks to apple App store policy. This just keeps getting better and better... for Adobe and Avid.

Yeah but since the price is low already, what you are paying for a new version is what you would pay for an upgrade in the old pricing. So it's basically the same pricing for people who upgrade regularly, and 70% cheaper for people who buy it for the first time.

And nobody said that the new features will require a full new version. They can add some of the features in 10.1 or 10.2 etc, which will be free.

 

[JabbaII]

Yeah but since the price is low already, what you are paying for a new version is what you would pay for an upgrade in the old pricing. So it's basically the same pricing for people who upgrade regularly, and 70% cheaper for people who buy it for the first time.

And nobody said that the new features will require a full new version. They can add some of the features in 10.1 or 10.2 etc, which will be free.

http://www.digitalrebellion.com/blog/

Good

FCPX is FAST. I tried to break it with lots of stacked clips and effects but it played them all seamlessly.
FCPX uses AVFoundation instead of QuickTime. The QuickTime API is clunky, antiquated and the modern features Apple tacked on don't work as well as the older stuff. Breaking free of the shackles of 1990s-era technology is the best thing that ever happened to Final Cut Pro.
Everyone's been complaining about FCP's media management since version 1.0 and the new database file format and keyword-based metadata tagging are huge improvements.
FCPX will import a memory card in the background, allowing you to edit the footage directly from the card and then replace it seamlessly with the media on the hard disk once the transfer is complete. I think this is a great idea.
Effects and titles were never FCP's strong point and these have been greatly improved.
I'm also enjoying the little touches I've spotted here and there, like the way an edit point turns red when you select it if the in and out points are at the outer limits of the clip. These features are tiny but they make a big difference.

Bad

It took a long time for multiple marker colors to be added to Final Cut Pro. Now we're back to one marker color again. There are no chapter markers either.
You need an OpenCL-compatible graphics card. This has left some Mac Pro owners out in the cold.
The QuickTime movie output options in FCPX are poor, which means you're obligated to pay an extra $49 for Compressor 4 because you can't send to Compressor 3.


Ugly

Compressor 4 is still 32-bit and doesn't look like it's received an overhaul, meaning that the problems many of us have suffered are likely to continue. I have already had several issues with Qmaster.
No multicam. This is a massive oversight in my opinion.
No XML import / output. Another huge oversight.
A lot of plugin developers have been left out in the cold with no answers from Apple.
No support for old FCP 7 projects.
No credible broadcast monitor output. The current solution is to mirror your desktop through a capture card, which does not result in a broadcast-quality output.
Final Cut Pro, Motion and Compressor are $400 combined. This is a great price, however if you need features that are not in FCPX, you're going to end up paying more. If you need OMF output, you need to pay $500 for Automatic Duck. You will also most likely need to pay to upgrade any plugins once support for FCPX has been added. Rumors have suggested that Apple may be offering these missing features as additional applications for a fee, which also contributes to the overall cost. When you consider all of these potential costs, FCPX doesn't seem as cheap as it does on the surface.

 

[iBug2]

Final Cut Pro, Motion and Compressor are $400 combined. This is a great price, however if you need features that are not in FCPX, you're going to end up paying more. If you need OMF output, you need to pay $500 for Automatic Duck. You will also most likely need to pay to upgrade any plugins once support for FCPX has been added. Rumors have suggested that Apple may be offering these missing features as additional applications for a fee, which also contributes to the overall cost. When you consider all of these potential costs, FCPX doesn't seem as cheap as it does on the surface.

You need to pay 500$ if you want to get OMF output "today" and it may come for free or much cheaper later on.

Rumors is the word here, other rumors also suggested that all the missing features would come without a fee.

So the only sane thing to do is to wait and see and keep using FCP 7 in the mean time.

Also about pricing don't forget that if you own X number of computers yourself, you still pay only the 400$ and install your software to all, unlike the previous pricing. When you take that into account, it's much much cheaper for most.

 

[Keebler]

Remember when trials existed?

exactly my thought - I use FCP for basic edits, but I would LOVE to know how the background rendering and 64 bit power works with automatically using multi-cores.

ie. i exported a 25 min self-contained pro res QT file and it took just over an hour!!!! looked at the activity monitor and the cores were barely moving. wasn't harnessing the full power.

maybe i have something set up wrong, but that's silly (2009 quad 2.66)

 

[samcraig]

I think it's telling that given the UI and features available on Day 1 that Apple geared the initial release towards those looking for more powerful features than iMovie but wouldn't pay nor feel comfortable in the FCP UI. You have the ability to import iMovie projects but not FCP 7 on release date. That says a lot. The fact that the program behaves very similar to iMovie and iMovie's bonus content is all integrated also says much about this release - with future things that are essential for many professional editors coming "soon." The price point is also far more attractive to con/prosumers.

Apple may lose editors and companies to their competition before they release these additions. They may not. They might see all the extra sales from con/prosumers increase and take that as a sign they did the right thing depending on how many offset those that might jump.

It's going to be an interesting 1-2 years to see how FCPX evolves. Personally - I'm not investing in it - even to "play" until some other features are resolved. And I would have been fine waiting for the software to be released in 6 months if it had it. For me it's a wash. It's out today but I won't buy it - and if features are added in 6 months (or less) I would.

Was Apple smart in releasing the software as is yesterday? From a sales point of view - I think yes - as people were so chomping at the bit for a new version (and oooh... look - new shiny Apple thing) - they are going to sell a lot. From a PR point of view - perhaps not the best way to introduce their new baby.

One more thought though. A few people in this thread have commented that they feel bad about the developers who clearly know the state FCPX is in and are getting a backlash because Apple released the software. To that I say - while one can appreciate the empathy - it's not really warranted. It's a symptom of Apple and their customers. I can pretty much guarantee that if this was a Microsoft issue and/or a car manufacturer, restaurant, etc that delivered sub-par (or rather something below expectations or requirements) - no one would defend the people behind the scenes.

My .02.

 

[iBug2]

I think it's telling that given the UI and features available on Day 1 that Apple geared the initial release towards those looking for more powerful features than iMovie but wouldn't pay nor feel comfortable in the FCP UI. You have the ability to import iMovie projects but not FCP 7 on release date. That says a lot. The fact that the program behaves very similar to iMovie and iMovie's bonus content is all integrated also says much about this release - with future things that are essential for many professional editors coming "soon." The price point is also far more attractive to con/prosumers.

It says much about the release but most people take it the wrong way. It says that Apple borrowed a lot of ideas from iMovie while preparing this app. It says that importing iMovie projects is much simpler than importing FCP projects, because iMovie projects have much less content compared to FCP and iMovie was already rewritten recently, while FCP was still carrying code from 1998.

It doesn't say that this app was being aimed at the iMovie crowd because one app comes free and this is 400$ a package.

 

[roadbloc]

And your experience must not be much if you think Apple has the worst dot zero releases in the industry. You obviously don't deal with Microsoft for a living.

Even though Wini is known to hate on Apple, he has a valid point. Apple's x.0 products in the past couple of years have been dire, whereas Microsoft's have been rather impressive (with the exception of Windows Phone 7 which lacked features.) Yeah, no doubt, bugs are bound to exist in x.0 releases, but Apple's bug lists have been rather huge. Snow Leopard was very buggy on release. Windows 7... seemed fairly solid, with a few niggles.

A pro product lacking pro features is simply unacceptable, no matter which way you swing it. I cannot envision Microsoft doing similar.

 

[totoum]

There's a difference between bugginess and lack of major features though.

Any brand new apple product (and this is brand new and in no way related to the old final cut),be it software or harware,lacks features in it's first release.

Remember when the first iphone didn't have 3rd party apps or 3G?
The first version of OS X was missing a lot of the features it has now that didn't come until 10.3-10.4,the was so much rage at the quality of 10.0 that 10.1 was a free upgrade.
Hell the first ipod didn't have the iconic scrollwheel and wasn't windows compatible.

So basicly,I think that in 2 years time FCP X will be miles ahead of where it is now.

 

[iBug2]

Even though Wini is known to hate on Apple, he has a valid point. Apple's x.0 products in the past couple of years have been dire, whereas Microsoft's have been rather impressive (with the exception of Windows Phone 7 which lacked features.) Yeah, no doubt, bugs are bound to exist in x.0 releases, but Apple's bug lists have been rather huge. Snow Leopard was very buggy on release. Windows 7... seemed fairly solid, with a few niggles.

A pro product lacking pro features is simply unacceptable, no matter which way you swing it. I cannot envision Microsoft doing similar.

And what about Vista?

 

[iBug2]

So basicly,I think that in 2 years time FCP X will be miles ahead of where it is now.

I think in that time FCP X will be miles ahead of any other NLE since no other app has a foundation like FCP X has today. Once you set the foundation, adding features is the easy part.

 

[roadbloc]

And what about Vista?

I mentioned in the past couple of years in my post. Vista was before that, and I felt Leopard was fairly solid on release. Yes, the Apple of the past were pretty good at making solid x.0 releases, and Microsoft were pretty bad. The roles appear to be switching.

 

[JabbaII]

You need to pay 500$ if you want to get OMF output "today" and it may come for free or much cheaper later on.

Rumors is the word here, other rumors also suggested that all the missing features would come without a fee.

So the only sane thing to do is to wait and see and keep using FCP 7 in the mean time.

Also about pricing don't forget that if you own X number of computers yourself, you still pay only the 400$ and install your software to all, unlike the previous pricing. When you take that into account, it's much much cheaper for most.

The FCP X license (app store) is a bit sketchy. I am sure people will start to "own" 10 mac pros all of a sudden. App store is not really for business. Again, FCP X and the whole delivery method / licensing does not look pro to me (not that I am one).

http://www.macworld.com/article/157018/2011/01/appstore_licensing.html

Rights and sites
When you buy an app on the Mac App Store, you’re getting the rights to run that program on any Macs you own and operate, for your personal use. Basically, if your household has a half-dozen different Macs, including desktops and laptops, you can buy a copy of Gratuitous Space Battles and play it on every single one of them. Consider a purchase of consumer software via the Mac App Store to be a bit like buying a household site license for the app.

The situation is slightly different for apps that are considered commercial or professional in nature. For apps that fall into this category—Aperture’s a good example—the Mac App Store license says that you essentially can install that item on computers you use or on a single computer shared by multiple people. Basically think of it as a one-seat license for a pro app.

 

[Sirmausalot]

For many of us, Final Cut Pro 7 is so out of date (no native support for DSLRs for example, no multicore support) that it is NOT a realistic option to continue with it. So please stop offering that as advice.

Final Cut Pro X is missing essential features for the independent filmmaker and I find I must switch. I switched from Avid years ago because it didn't support P2 Media. Now, surprisingly, it's Apple that is far from the cutting edge.

Yes, the new interface, workflow seems intriguing, but with so many features missing, bugs with media management, and no backwards compatibility, it's a horrible mistake.

Even Premiere Pro offers reasonable ways to open Final Cut Pro 7 projects through XML.

 

[Reach]

I think it's telling that given the UI and features available on Day 1 that Apple geared the initial release towards those looking for more powerful features than iMovie but wouldn't pay nor feel comfortable in the FCP UI. You have the ability to import iMovie projects but not FCP 7 on release date. That says a lot. The fact that the program behaves very similar to iMovie and iMovie's bonus content is all integrated also says much about this release - with future things that are essential for many professional editors coming "soon." The price point is also far more attractive to con/prosumers.

Apple may lose editors and companies to their competition before they release these additions. They may not. They might see all the extra sales from con/prosumers increase and take that as a sign they did the right thing depending on how many offset those that might jump.

It's going to be an interesting 1-2 years to see how FCPX evolves. Personally - I'm not investing in it - even to "play" until some other features are resolved. And I would have been fine waiting for the software to be released in 6 months if it had it. For me it's a wash. It's out today but I won't buy it - and if features are added in 6 months (or less) I would.

Was Apple smart in releasing the software as is yesterday? From a sales point of view - I think yes - as people were so chomping at the bit for a new version (and oooh... look - new shiny Apple thing) - they are going to sell a lot. From a PR point of view - perhaps not the best way to introduce their new baby.

One more thought though. A few people in this thread have commented that they feel bad about the developers who clearly know the state FCPX is in and are getting a backlash because Apple released the software. To that I say - while one can appreciate the empathy - it's not really warranted. It's a symptom of Apple and their customers. I can pretty much guarantee that if this was a Microsoft issue and/or a car manufacturer, restaurant, etc that delivered sub-par (or rather something below expectations or requirements) - no one would defend the people behind the scenes.

My .02.

Yes, professionals hate having to pay less. I for will not buy this application before it at least doubles in price!

 

[MovieCutter]

So you're happy to wait 6 months, except that you're not happy to wait 6 months.

Got it.

Problem is I wasn't expecting them to STRIP features, now I have no guarantee that they will be put back. If I was told "Wait til January, then it'll be a faster version of FCP 7 with a slicker interface"...sure, I'd be happy. But I got iMovie Pro...literally, and it's useless to me with no guarantee it'll ever replace FCP 7.