eBay dispute (MBP)

[akkkmed]

No offense, but people are "sue happy" because of situations like this that are 100% your fault. Yes, you now have a buyer who is aggressive, but this would have never happened had your ad been truthful, i.e. I upgraded the HD myself.

Here's the buyer's dilemma. He thought he was buying an Apple OEM drive with X capacity, and he paid up for it. Now, if you only exchange drives, he's short because while he gets an Apple OEM drive, he gets less capacity than he thought he was buying. Your last offer should be send him the Apple OEM drive and a little $ to makeup for the lower capacity.

You have a lot of MR history so am making sure you understand that you will lose. PayPal/eBay is buyer friendly, and your ad did not match the description. Unfortunately for you, the buyer now has emails where you acknowledge that you didn't mention the drive upgrade. Lawyer or not, if the buyer is as aggressive as I was with PayPal and/or his cc, you're going to lose. If he is beyond the time limits and chooses to pursue a small claims case, you will still lose. He has your recent emails.

I initiated a refund after 4 months, my buyer had closed his PayPay account, but I still got my money back since they used a collections agency to track down the seller.

The decision is up to you, ride the lightning if you wish, but you're dickering over a stock HD (that reads like you no longer use) and maybe an extra $20-40.

Good luck.

I still don't get it. I listed an item with an i5 CPU, 4GB RAM, 500GB HDD, etc. I said it was all in perfect condition and all under warranty until May.

I did not specify if the items were stock, 3rd party, used, or anything else. I provided the most accurate information in my ad. It was an honest mistake that I forgot to mention the HDD was 3rd party, but it should matter considering everything lined up with my terms and details of the sale.

Edit: My issue, or rather your folks' issue, is that you aren't thinking logically. I offered A product under B terms. I provided A product with B terms.

Let's say you were selling a car that was still under warranty. You replace all the tires due to damage with brand new tires, better than the original tires that were included, and warranted longer. You didn't disclose that the vehicle had new tires. Would the buyer have a right to return the vehicle because it wasn't disclosed that you used aftermarket parts? Even though everything is covered under a warranty longer than it would have been if they were the original tires?

The argument that is being made does not make any sense.

 

[bizcod]

I've done plenty of buying and selling on eBay. Definitely no intent to deceive on your part. But I understand his position, without agreeing with the manner in which he's handled it. As a seller, this is what I would do:
Send him an email saying you would love to reach a compromise to resolve this matter. Tell him you're more than happy to trade the stock HD for the HD currently in the computer. He ships it to you (with signature confirmation via USPS)...and you'll send the original HD back to him (with signature confirmation via USPS.) Swapping HD's. Splitting shipping. He's getting what he thought he was paying for...and you're taking a minor shipping cost hit for your unintentional omission. If he refuses, so be it.

 

[blunti]

you know what? this guy is full of crap. I bet you anything he just changed his mind after 6 months and wants free money.
I seriously hope you're not going to fall for this. Probably needs the already spent money for something else.

Seriously wth? trying to get money back on a USED computer 6 months later? gotta be kiddin me

 

[jakemack]

you know what? this guy is full of crap. I bet you anything he just changed his mind after 6 months and wants free money.
I seriously hope you're not going to fall for this. Probably needs the already spent money for something else.

Seriously wth? trying to get money back on a USED computer 6 months later? gotta be kiddin me

^^^^ This

 

[jenzjen]

It was an honest mistake that I forgot to mention the HDD was 3rd party, but it should matter considering everything lined up with my terms and details of the sale.

Let's say you were selling a car that was still under warranty. You replace all the tires due to damage with brand new tires, better than the original tires that were included, and warranted longer. You didn't disclose that the vehicle had new tires. Would the buyer have a right to return the vehicle because it wasn't disclosed that you used aftermarket parts? Even though everything is covered under a warranty longer than it would have been if they were the original tires?

As you wrote, YOU made the mistake. That's the issue right there, the buyer should not have to suffer because of YOUR mistake. It does not matter if it was an honest mistake or not, it was still your mistake.

Your tire example is irrelevant, as tires are wear 'n tear items. Let's use the engine, as then this situation becomes more clear.

So, let's say you bought a used BMW whose ad says covered under warranty until May with no mention that the engine was not a BMW OEM engine. You call BMW directly, and they confirm the warranty is valid until May. Then, your car breaks down in Sep, and your repair shop tells you that this is a non OEM engine. How would you react? You wouldn't want to make it right with the buyer, you'd want your money back since they omitted the information. You want a BMW with a BMW engine.

The law has a certain common sense about it. If not, then every used car purchase would have a checklist asking the seller to confirm that all 1000 components are OEM, etc. When you represent a warranty (which you did), you led the buyer to believe it was 100% covered (which it was), but you conveniently forgot to highlight who provided the warranty on the HD (because you knew your auction wouldn't sell as well).

Again, how would you feel if the your BMW seller told you, hey the engine is covered by Shady Akkm's Auto Body, I never said it was a BMW warranty. Seller would lose in court. Lying by omission is still lying. Spend more time with your lawyer.

Last but not least, karma acts in weird ways:
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/895034/

What if you tell the woman you're working with that the AppleCare/corporate phone person told you that you should be getting the new mid-range model? I know lying is not good in any situation, but this has worked for me at Best Buy before. As soon as I mentioned the 1-800 number, the customer service people give in.

 

[ljonesj]

From what i read they OP said even without the reciept you can rma the drive you can get the a new one. put in yourself or you can ship me the old drive i will ship the one that was in it i will rma it then for a cost ship it back and the buyer said the ram is 3rd according to apple were the op is saying it was not 3rd i find that fishy either on op or buyers part but i think the op has tried to help the guy the guy does not want help.

 

[akkkmed]

From what i read they OP said even without the reciept you can rma the drive you can get the a new one. put in yourself or you can ship me the old drive i will ship the one that was in it i will rma it then for a cost ship it back and the buyer said the ram is 3rd according to apple were the op is saying it was not 3rd i find that fishy either on op or buyers part but i think the op has tried to help the guy the guy does not want help.

RAM was stock. I replaced the RAM for the first time in my CURRENT MBP.

----------

As you wrote, YOU made the mistake. That's the issue right there, the buyer should not have to suffer because of YOUR mistake. It does not matter if it was an honest mistake or not, it was still your mistake.

Your tire example is irrelevant, as tires are wear 'n tear items. Let's use the engine, as then this situation becomes more clear.

So, let's say you bought a used BMW whose ad says covered under warranty until May with no mention that the engine was not a BMW OEM engine. You call BMW directly, and they confirm the warranty is valid until May. Then, your car breaks down in Sep, and your repair shop tells you that this is a non OEM engine. How would you react? You wouldn't want to make it right with the buyer, you'd want your money back since they omitted the information. You want a BMW with a BMW engine.

The law has a certain common sense about it. If not, then every used car purchase would have a checklist asking the seller to confirm that all 1000 components are OEM, etc. When you represent a warranty (which you did), you led the buyer to believe it was 100% covered (which it was), but you conveniently forgot to highlight who provided the warranty on the HD (because you knew your auction wouldn't sell as well).

Again, how would you feel if the your BMW seller told you, hey the engine is covered by Shady Akkm's Auto Body, I never said it was a BMW warranty. Seller would lose in court. Lying by omission is still lying. Spend more time with your lawyer.

Last but not least, karma acts in weird ways:
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/895034/

Your ignorance is showing.

Apple doesn't use "Apple hard drives". They use hard drives from 3rd party vendors, including, but not limited to, Seagate and Samsung.

Engines are wear-and-tear too. So you just de-bunked your own argument. Hard drives are wear-and-tear as well, so I don't see why that's relevant.

It's like buying a Cadillac. Instead of going to the dealership for service, you're told you need to go to the GM engine dealer directly. Same brand, same engine, but you deal with the manufacturer instead of the middle man.

This is simple. You're trying to make me look wrong for no reason.
Offered item A with warranty. Did not list who the warranty is through.
Sold item A with warranty. Warranty provided was exactly as listed.
Therefore, I did not lie by omission. I sold something and provided the buyer with EXACTLY what I listed. Word for word.


You keep saying I left out the fact that it was a 3rd party drive on purpose. You're trying to personally attack me for no reason, let alone across the internet. I did not leave that information out on purpose, or in hopes of "making more money." If you have an issue with me, hop through the computer screen and talk to my face. I'm done responding to your illogical arguments. You have not made one valid point thus far.

 

[aluren]

This is simple. You're trying to make me look wrong for no reason.

I think we're trying to say that you are wrong. That is simple. Just admit it and make the buyer whole.

 

[akkkmed]

I think we're trying to say that you are wrong. That is simple. Just admit it and make the buyer whole.

Your proof is wrong. You are fighting invalid points.

 

[Naimfan]

Hmmmm . . .

From what I can tell, the buyer should RMA the hard drive to Seagate (under the Seagate warranty) and have it replaced. End of story.

That the buyer has not been willing to do this provides a reasonable basis for questioning what the buyer has been claiming. While it would have been better for the OP/Seller to say that he had replaced the hard drive himself, that omission does not, by itself, provide grounds to unwind the transaction. The reason is that the OP/Seller advertised a product with certain specifications and under certain terms. The Buyer accepted, and the Seller delivered exactly what the Seller described in the listing.

Now, the Buyer seeks to unwind the transaction on the grounds that the warranty provided did not match what was described. While it is true that two separate, rather than one, manufacturers' warranties are involved, the fact remains that the Seller's description of everything being under warranty until a date certain was truthful and accurate. Buyer has, however, failed to avail himself of the most basic forms of self-help: Had he contacted Seagate, Seagate would have replaced the hard drive in question and this matter would be closed. Instead, Buyer attempted to open a case with Paypal, which was refused due to being past the due date. Buyer now threatens to request a "chargeback" through his credit card.

I don't know what will happen, but it seems to me that the Buyer should have availed himself of the easiest remedy--having Seagate RMA the drive. It's impossible to say whether a chargeback will work or not without seeing the Buyer's agreement with his credit card and the agreement between the Buyer's credit card company and Paypal.

 

[akkkmed]

Hmmmm . . .

From what I can tell, the buyer should RMA the hard drive to Seagate (under the Seagate warranty) and have it replaced. End of story.

That the buyer has not been willing to do this provides a reasonable basis for questioning what the buyer has been claiming. While it would have been better for the OP/Seller to say that he had replaced the hard drive himself, that omission does not, by itself, provide grounds to unwind the transaction. The reason is that the OP/Seller advertised a product with certain specifications and under certain terms. The Buyer accepted, and the Seller delivered exactly what the Seller described in the listing.

Now, the Buyer seeks to unwind the transaction on the grounds that the warranty provided did not match what was described. While it is true that two separate, rather than one, manufacturers' warranties are involved, the fact remains that the Seller's description of everything being under warranty until a date certain was truthful and accurate. Buyer has, however, failed to avail himself of the most basic forms of self-help: Had he contacted Seagate, Seagate would have replaced the hard drive in question and this matter would be closed. Instead, Buyer attempted to open a case with Paypal, which was refused due to being past the due date. Buyer now threatens to request a "chargeback" through his credit card.

I don't know what will happen, but it seems to me that the Buyer should have availed himself of the easiest remedy--having Seagate RMA the drive. It's impossible to say whether a chargeback will work or not without seeing the Buyer's agreement with his credit card and the agreement between the Buyer's credit card company and Paypal.

All I can say is thank you. You must have passed "Logic 101" in college.

 

[Naimfan]

All I can say is thank you. You must have passed "Logic 101" in college.

Contracts 1 & 2 in law school . . .

and, yes,

"Introduction to Formal Logic" in college.

 

[panzer06]

I'm amazed this is still being discussed. The two sides in this thread are just as stubborn as the parties to this dispute. I try to be very specific on my listings and I point out if I've added better kit but even w/o the explicit information regarding the Apple OEM drive and it's potential implications it is far from certain this would be considered a materially sufficient defect to render the transaction invalid.

Additionally, the amount of time elapsed between the sale and the subsequent complaint creates an implied acceptance of goods, regardless of whether the buyer only recently discovered the lack of an OEM component. It is incumbent upon the buyer to make a reasonable inspection of goods received within a reasonable timeframe. Considering the hard drive in the current MBP is considered user serviceable it could be argued these items should have been inspected long before now.

To the people chiding the seller: Do you really believe it's reasonable to come back months later and complain about getting a better component which is under warranty and then demand to return the entire machine if you don't get your way.

We are talking about a $1500+ CC and Paypal dispute over a $50 component. The warranty issue is now moot since the buyer failed to buy AppleCare. For legal claims to be valid in a lawsuit there has to be harm. I understand CC & Paypal standards may no be as stringent but REALLY, it's $50 for a 320GB HD (if that).

I am so amazed that these two parties have turned this into such an imbroglio over something so insignificant. The seller shows a significant lack of maturity for not quickly resolving this by agreeing to swap out the drive just to put this issue to rest. Surely the OP has better things to do with his time than fight over something this insignificant.

However, I'm even more amazed at how many people jumped on the seller over failing to explicitly mention the HDD upgrade. Replacing the hard drive did not materially impact the remaining Apple warranty. The new drive warranty was longer than the remaining Apple warranty. W/o the two year AppleCare extension there is no finding of harm to the buyer. He has lost nothing. If there is no financial harm there is no claim.

This has certainly gone on much too long and both sides are much too passionate about something so trivial. Life is way too short for this.

Cheers,

 

[xkmxkmxlmx]

All I can say is thank you. You must have passed "Logic 101" in college.

God I wish a mod would close this already. All it has turned into is you berating anyone that doesn't agree with you (even though you are asking for advice) and celebrating anyone that does.

You know what you're going to do, right? No one here is going to change your mind, right? So just do it and be quiet already.

 

[jakemack]

God I wish a mod would close this already. All it has turned into is you berating anyone that doesn't agree with you (even though you are asking for advice) and celebrating anyone that does.

You know what you're going to do, right? No one here is going to change your mind, right? So just do it and be quiet already.

No one asked your for your opinion.

 

[akkkmed]

I'm amazed this is still being discussed. The two sides in this thread are just as stubborn as the parties to this dispute. I try to be very specific on my listings and I point out if I've added better kit but even w/o the explicit information regarding the Apple OEM drive and it's potential implications it is far from certain this would be considered a materially sufficient defect to render the transaction invalid.

Additionally, the amount of time elapsed between the sale and the subsequent complaint creates an implied acceptance of goods, regardless of whether the buyer only recently discovered the lack of an OEM component. It is incumbent upon the buyer to make a reasonable inspection of goods received within a reasonable timeframe. Considering the hard drive in the current MBP is considered user serviceable it could be argued these items should have been inspected long before now.

To the people chiding the seller: Do you really believe it's reasonable to come back months later and complain about getting a better component which is under warranty and then demand to return the entire machine if you don't get your way.

We are talking about a $1500+ CC and Paypal dispute over a $50 component. The warranty issue is now moot since the buyer failed to buy AppleCare. For legal claims to be valid in a lawsuit there has to be harm. I understand CC & Paypal standards may no be as stringent but REALLY, it's $50 for a 320GB HD (if that).

I am so amazed that these two parties have turned this into such an imbroglio over something so insignificant. The seller shows a significant lack of maturity for not quickly resolving this by agreeing to swap out the drive just to put this issue to rest. Surely the OP has better things to do with his time than fight over something this insignificant.

However, I'm even more amazed at how many people jumped on the seller over failing to explicitly mention the HDD upgrade. Replacing the hard drive did not materially impact the remaining Apple warranty. The new drive warranty was longer than the remaining Apple warranty. W/o the two year AppleCare extension there is no finding of harm to the buyer. He has lost nothing. If there is no financial harm there is no claim.

This has certainly gone on much too long and both sides are much too passionate about something so trivial. Life is way too short for this.

Cheers,

An open-minded, well-said response. Thanks.

I'm not [trying to be] immature about this. Last night I was really, really close to shipping out the stock HDD to the guy today. But then I got to thinking... The buyer has changed his story and has completely lied to me. And like you pointed out, this is happening 6 months after the sale. This has led me to believe that the buyer is up to no good. There's no good explanation for why he waited this long. If the HDD has truly failed, which is entirely possible, then he'd be interested in getting it fixed/replaced, which is a free option to him. But he refuses to do so. That's how I know he's up to no good and his sole purpose is to get his money back.

----------

God I wish a mod would close this already. All it has turned into is you berating anyone that doesn't agree with you (even though you are asking for advice) and celebrating anyone that does.

You know what you're going to do, right? No one here is going to change your mind, right? So just do it and be quiet already.

Honestly, just stop. Stop. If you are that hard-headed that you can't understand simple topics, then don't complain to me about my thread. I'm not "celebrating" people who are in agreement with me. They are thinking straight and have the same opinion I do. I don't have to justify myself to you. Jump in the lake.

 

[ExiledMafia]

This is getting ridiculous, I guarantee nothing will happen. It is up to the buyer to check to see if the parts are stock, within the 45 day grace period. He could say "the ad didnt say anything about a user replaced hdd". Since you never said it was totally stock that isn't guaranteed especially after a certain number of days. For example, if someone buys a car the dealer doesnt state what is stock or not, the buyer looks at it and decides if he wants it.

This situation is the prime example of a buyer regretting buying his mbp. If it comes to anything all you have to say is that I offered to send the original hdd if he sends the old one. You;ve made every effort needed and this is all. Stop worrying, you will be fine.

 

[akkkmed]

This is getting ridiculous, I guarantee nothing will happen. It is up to the buyer to check to see if the parts are stock, within the 45 day grace period. He could say "the ad didnt say anything about a user replaced hdd". Since you never said it was totally stock that isn't guaranteed especially after a certain number of days. For example, if someone buys a car the dealer doesnt state what is stock or not, the buyer looks at it and decides if he wants it.

This situation is the prime example of a buyer regretting buying his mbp. If it comes to anything all you have to say is that I offered to send the original hdd if he sends the old one. You;ve made every effort needed and this is all. Stop worrying, you will be fine.

I'm more than done worrying. Now I'm worried for humanity. (this thread..)
Thanks for the input, by the way.

 

[i4k20c]

God I wish a mod would close this already. All it has turned into is you berating anyone that doesn't agree with you (even though you are asking for advice) and celebrating anyone that does.

You know what you're going to do, right? No one here is going to change your mind, right? So just do it and be quiet already.

in the same light, you could have chose to ignore this thread and skimmed right past it, letting it vanish onto page 2; but you chose to reply.

 

[Papanate]

First tell him to return the Appecare...they will take it back on a prorated scale.

Second...a reasonable person still gets worried with eBay purchases...his responses are probably because people publish all sorts of ripoff stories and he's reacting. It is hard enough to buy from anonymous people - when something goes wrong it s even harder to be normal.

Write him - say you will send the RMA process for the drive ( if you haven't already)And explain that you sold the stock drive. I'd be inclined to offer half the difference of the expended AppleCare as good faith since you made an honest mistake...I would tell him that too.

Don't assume he's the enemy or a rip off scammer...he is probably just like you and simply wants to enjoy his Mac.

 

[akkkmed]

First tell him to return the Appecare...they will take it back on a prorated scale.

Second...a reasonable person still gets worried with eBay purchases...his responses are probably because people publish all sorts of ripoff stories and he's reacting. It is hard enough to buy from anonymous people - when something goes wrong it s even harder to be normal.

Write him - say you will send the RMA process for the drive ( if you haven't already)And explain that you sold the stock drive. I'd be inclined to offer half the difference of the expended AppleCare as good faith since you made an honest mistake...I would tell him that too.

Don't assume he's the enemy or a rip off scammer...he is probably just like you and simply wants to enjoy his Mac.

He didn't buy AppleCare. He lied about it.

 

[i4k20c]

First tell him to return the Appecare...they will take it back on a prorated scale.

Second...a reasonable person still gets worried with eBay purchases...his responses are probably because people publish all sorts of ripoff stories and he's reacting. It is hard enough to buy from anonymous people - when something goes wrong it s even harder to be normal.

Write him - say you will send the RMA process for the drive ( if you haven't already)And explain that you sold the stock drive. I'd be inclined to offer half the difference of the expended AppleCare as good faith since you made an honest mistake...I would tell him that too.

Don't assume he's the enemy or a rip off scammer...he is probably just like you and simply wants to enjoy his Mac.

lol, except that he lied about buying the extended applecare.

 

[randomrazr]

this thread needs to be closed. im sure the OP has gotton all the info he needs LOL

 

[bluesteel]

consult an attorney...

 

[blunti]

This situation is the prime example of a buyer regretting buying his mbp.

exactly what I was saying above...