EFiX Allows Mac OS X to Boot on a PC

[sflocal]

I don't ask Apple to support my hackintosh. I bought a copy of OSX and will install it on one computer. I don't expect them to support it, and fully accept that any hardware that doesn't work, that any problems caused by it not functioning as designed on Apple hardware, are my problems and my problems alone.

Of course Apple won't support you. You know that. You accept that there may be problems with your install because you're forcing it to work on your non-Apple system. No arguments from me. Lucky you that Apple doesn't perform some type of system-check to verify it's an Apple system. If it doesn't work, you accept full responsibility for it. It doesn't change the fact that you purchased that CD knowing you're not to use it on a PC. But you accept that. I'm not really making an issue of it since you are a minority player in the big picture.

My issue is that as non-Apple systems proliferate, the regular joe-user thinking they are getting a "real" Apple-supported system did in fact not. There are just too many "dumb" people out there that will complain why their brand-new $400 "Apple" computer crashes or doesn't accept updates. It dilutes Apple's image which they worked very hard to attain only to let some monkey-shop tarnish their image.

If Apple removed the option of purchasing shrink-wrapped OSX cd's, the only way you would be able to get it is to physically take it from a real Apple machine and knowingly violate the EULA. Then it's easy for Apple to shut down those companies.

 

[kis]

Forcing user to break EULA..... it breaks only DMCA yeah ?

how much countries have DMCA? uhm, only one iirc.
and since art-studios(efix developer) located outside of US , they need to care abotu dmca ?

Yupp, no DMCA here in Switzerland. And since Apple doesn't print the EULA on the Leopard boxes, it doesn't apply here anyway (there have been several precedents for this). The law here is: if you want to enforce an EULA, it has to be printed on the box so the customer can read it BEFORE opening the product (and thus accepting the agreement).

On a different note - pretty much everybody seems to be perfectly content with hacking their iPhones but installing a LEGALLY OBTAINED version of OS X on a computer that isn't a Mac is objectionable. Of those who are vehement defenders of Apple's allegedly god-given right to tie software and hardware together - how many have hacked their iPhones?

peter

 

[kis]

why buy EFiX and have some huge dongle sticking out the back of your tower

The dongle goes INSIDE the case.

 

[Aea]

The dongle goes INSIDE the case.

Dongle Goes Where?

Sorry, it's juvenile but I just couldn't resist.

 

[kis]

Lucky you that Apple doesn't perform some type of system-check to verify it's an Apple system.

And you know why they don't? Because the Intel Macs contain the EXACT SAME HARDWARE as any other PC.

 

[kis]

Dongle Goes Where?

Sorry, it's juvenile but I just couldn't resist.

cute kitty

 

[hiptobesquare]

An easy way for Apple to win...

LISTEN TO CUSTOMERS.

It is the nature of the market to push for what it wants if it is not getting it.

The way for Apple to win this "battle" is easy, much easier than suing everybody in sight.


BUILD WHAT PEOPLE ARE ASKING FOR!!!!!!!!!!! It is so much the better solution than playing the injured victim. Apple doesn't do wounded victim, they LEAD the market. They need to do so in this segment, not deny it.

They do it so well with the iPod/iPhone line, with minor niggles, so we know they are capable. The computers they build are quality machines, but this is a GIANT hole. So big that it echoes when people ask for a headless consumer desktop.

That is a MAJOR issue that there is a giant gap between Mac Pro and Mac Mini, that iMac doesn't fit into. It doesn't even need to be a fourth line, if they treated the Mac Mini as more of a mainstream model, with a new somewhat larger design, with a base configuration, and a good amount of configurability, even if it isn't as extremely compact. OR it can be a fourth model, and mini can continue on at postage stamp size.

We all know what we are looking for.
Dual-head capable. Video card upgradeable.
HDCP compliant, or upgradeable to be HDCP compliant video.
Apple's good track record of digital and analog audio in and output.
One 3.5 or 2x 2.5" hard drives, and e-sata expandability
Blu-Ray drive option.
Dual or Quad core, at least 6GB ram ceiling, or higher.

In a nice slick little aluminum box, between the tiny, cramped mini, and the aircraft carrier (complete with jet engine fans) Mac Pro.

Sell it with one or two new-spec LED cinema displays that should also come out... and watch the orders.

With Home Theater functionality potential, good regular desktop performance, dual monitor capability, and the ability to run both Mac OS or Windows, or even both at the same time (BootCamp + virtualizer like VM Fusion) how would that not sell?

I would buy one to put in the home theater, and at the center of my home network just as soon as I possibly could.

But EFiX is the alternative for that demand. Denying that demand is as detrimental to the market, and APPLE is the one denying it. How can they be surprised when this sort of thing happens? The market seeks what it wants, and business people cater to unfilled niches.

 

[Aea]

Very good point.

I'm actually myself in the process of contemplating a hackintosh, simply need to be able to drive two (preferably three) large monitors without resorting to halfway solutions such as TripleHead2Go. The Mac Pro might have been tempting, even with its price tag if it were updated more often.

 

[venom600]

Off-topic, but if Geniuses were getting $80,000 back at the outset of the stores they were substantially overpaid, IMO. Apple's cheap with its employees, yes. We know Apple's engineers are underpaid and angry about it, so certainly their unappreciated retail employees will be underpaid as well. If they don't like it, they don't have to work for Apple. Tough but true.

For the record, I am an enthusiastic proponent of the XMac prosumer tower campaign, and I think any developments that keep Apple aware of consumer demand for an XMac are good for the platform.

As a former Apple Store employee (at one of the first two flagship stores), the lead geniuses were getting paid around $65k back in 2002. Mind you, they were the leads and flagship employees got paid more than smaller stores. The reason is that the vast majority of our geniuses were career Apple technicians sent from the tech support center in Texas (most had been with the company 3-5 years prior). The geniuses that were trained in store got paid substantially less.

 

[thecrackerjack]

I have been reading down the forum topic and noticed several people commenting on how it is illegal to install OSX on non Apple branded hardware...

My thought on this (not that anyone cares):
There seems to be only one part in a Mac that make it an Apple computer. The motherboard.

So if I change the case, power supply, cpu, hard drive, RAM and optical drive.... and install OSX am I violating Apple's terms?

I think this point is similar to using the device in question. Maybe Apple should consider buying them out and releasing a similar device for double the price (typical Apple fashion) then sell you the OS, of course siting strict hardware compatibility.

 

[teh_pwnerer]

There's a lot of talk about EULAs. Personally, I don't pay them any mind and I would encourage others to do the same. At work is a different story but at home I do what I want.
I'd like to see Apple try and stop me. What are they going to do? Sue me for using their OS on non-Apple hardware? Refuse to sell to me? Come into my house and physically take the media? Nope. They're not going to do anything.
I'm a consumer. I buy Macs and PCs. I use whatever I want and I do whatever I want. If anyone has a problem with it, tough, don't make it then.

 

[teh_pwnerer]

It's not like buying a car. If you must use that analogy, then it would be more like buying a car at a reduced price with the condition that you only use it as specified in a contract.

Nobody buys cars like that. You'd be a fool to buy a car and say, not be allowed to sell it. If a car company came out with a car that had stringent contractual restrictions they'd be laughed out of the market, and rightly so.

How would a software company make money if they could not limit your use of the software?

They already limit my use of the software. And I'm staying within those limits: Buy 1 copy, use 1 copy on 1 computer. If as a software company you can't make money like that then that's too bad.

 

[teh_pwnerer]

ZONK! Sorry, but the truck analogy just doesn't work. You're talking about a physical item. The issue of the OS comes down to intellectual property restraints. You don't actually OWN the OS when you purchase a Macintosh you own a license to use the OS. There's no intellectual copyright infringement if you slap a Pwnerer Made This sticker on a Dodge then pawn it off on your neighbor. You're receiving reimbursement for the resale of your own property.

Big Difference.

Oh, I know the industry sees a difference and I'm saying things have gone too far. What I'm saying is when I buy an item, digital or physical, and I use it for my own personal use then that's fine.
I'm also pointing that with car, a physical item, you have even more freedoms over digital items. We've already given up enough power to intellectual copyright holders. We can't SELL other people's intellectual property the way we see fit. Fine. But now we can't even USE other people's intellectual property the way we see fit. Everyone seems to be ok with this, which is a shame.

 

[thechidz]

would efix be able to run on this? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16883229045

 

[nanofrog]

would efix be able to run on this? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16883229045

Try to find out the motherboard used, and compare it to the hardware compatibility list on EFiX's web site.

Otherwise, it's a gamble. Though newegg has a decent return policy, check it out before you purchase.

 

[thechidz]

Try to find out the motherboard used, and compare it to the hardware compatibility list on EFiX's web site.

Otherwise, it's a gamble. Though newegg has a decent return policy, check it out before you purchase.

is the motherboard the mainboard? Im getting confused on the whole Gigabyte requirement? where do you find the mainboard info in the specs?

the one on newegg says Q6600 after the intel core 2 quad part, so does that mean its not compatible?

 

[SinfonianShrek]

Oh, I know the industry sees a difference and I'm saying things have gone too far. What I'm saying is when I buy an item, digital or physical, and I use it for my own personal use then that's fine.
I'm also pointing that with car, a physical item, you have even more freedoms over digital items. We've already given up enough power to intellectual copyright holders. We can't SELL other people's intellectual property the way we see fit. Fine. But now we can't even USE other people's intellectual property the way we see fit. Everyone seems to be ok with this, which is a shame.

The problem is that say you use a creator's intellectual property in a potentially damaging way. Or, in the case of Psystar, to make a profit by modifying the end product and reselling it as their own?

I'm not saying that a person shouldn't build a hackintosh. As a matter of fact I will build myself one as I'm too damned broke to shell out a minimum of $1300 for a reasonably capable system when I can build one for $700 and use my own monitor.

I just recognize that I am in the wrong by utilizing the software in violation of the EULA and will deal with the consequences should Apple come knocking at my door for it. I will also not build a similar system for anyone and will make sure that there is a distinction made between my system and a real Mac.

It's all about responsibility and as the consumer we are responsible for our actions and violations in the market, not the manufacturer whose only responsibilities are to not break the law and to make a profit for the shareholders.

 

[SinfonianShrek]

is the motherboard the mainboard? Im getting confused on the whole Gigabyte requirement? where do you find the mainboard info in the specs?

the one on newegg says Q6600 after the intel core 2 quad part, so does that mean its not compatible?

Motherboard=mainboard. It's merely a matter of semantics.

Probably the reason they are running esclusively on the Gigabyte boards is because a) they are a high performance board with a good reputation so EFi-X won't have to worry about consumer lashback for crumby motherboards. I would also guess that Gigabyte supplied them with the boards at a reduced cost with an agreement to be the primary, or possibly solitary, supported motherboard manufacturer.

While it would be nice to find a barebones assembled with all the parts supported you'll be hard-pressed to find such a deal. It may not be as cheap but your best bet is to get on the compatibility list and start ordering piecemeal from your favorite vendor.

 

[nanofrog]

is the motherboard the mainboard? Im getting confused on the whole Gigabyte requirement? where do you find the mainboard info in the specs?

Yes, the motherboard = main board. Sometimes in a Mac, it is also called a logic board.

Take a look at cyberpowerpc.com, and check out what they currently have.
Their phone number is 1(800)707-0393. Give them a call or send an e-mail asking what motherboard is used on the specific model you're interested in.

the one on newegg says Q6600 after the intel core 2 quad part, so does that mean its not compatible?

This is the CPU's part number used in the computer.

Good Luck.
NF.

 

[goosnarrggh]

But is Apple using a vanilla version of EFI, or do they have something proprietary (and patentable/copyrightable) as well?

I suspect it isn't just the same as the EFI open standard, otherwise once all PCs start using EFI, they'd all be able to just install OSX.

I've done some reading about this, and the information is hard to find. But from what I've read, there are at least two differences between "vanilla" EFI and Apple's implementation.

1) Apple uses a proprietary data format for its partition table. Vanilla EFI implementations apparently don't contain a driver capable of interpreting this alternative boot record format, and thus cannot identify the partitions contained on the drive.

2) Even if the EFI implementation is able to interpret Apple's MBR, the vanilla EFI specification does not contain the drivers necessary to read the HFS+ partitions used by Apple.

 

[mscriv]

Such a slippery slope. Where have personal ethics gone?

But the bottom line is this device and even the whole Psystar business has happened because Apple is NOT listening to their customers that WANT more choices than what they are offering. If they truly filled all the major niches and are at competitive prices, these things wouldn't happen or have to happen. It's because Steve Jobs thinks he knows better than his own customers that these sorts of products will continue to pop up.

This device does not install OS X on such a computer so how could they be sued for something they're not doing. YOU the consumer have to install it yourself so unless you're going to rat on yourself to Apple, who are they going to sue, pray tell?

They're preventing other companies from selling HARDWARE for the OS X operating system market. In other words, if you want to run OS X, you're not allowed to buy it and install it on the hardware of your choice.

Thus all "Mac" sales have to be from Apple and therefore Apple controls 100% of the "Mac" market.

All I have to say is REALLY? C'mon, REALLY? Let me translate the first bolded part into what your argument really boils down to. "WHAAA! WHAAAA! I want what I want the way I want it and if I can't have it then I will justify my choices by blaming someone else." At least you recognize that YOU as the consumer have to install it and that is your choice, but don't justify that choice by saying Apple has forced you into this position. According to your argument there should be no such thing as copyright. I say again, REALLY! OSX is Apple's copyrighted product, that means they can dictate how it is to be used or if there are any restrictions on it. It doesn't matter what you believe the market dictates. Free enterprise dictates that everyone has a chance to make and sell products, it doesn't mean they have access to other's copyrighted or private property, physical or intellectual. If a group of friends and I think some guy's wife is hot it doesn't mean we have a right to demand that she be made available to us just because we want that, I mean we outnumber him so that means the demand is there. Face it, things in life are restricted. That's how it is, get over it. If Apple loses customers by not making a mid range tower then they lose money. That's their choice.

 

[mscriv]

This is what responsibility looks like!

I'm not saying that a person shouldn't build a hackintosh. As a matter of fact I will build myself one as I'm too damned broke to shell out a minimum of $1300 for a reasonably capable system when I can build one for $700 and use my own monitor.

I just recognize that I am in the wrong by utilizing the software in violation of the EULA and will deal with the consequences should Apple come knocking at my door for it. I will also not build a similar system for anyone and will make sure that there is a distinction made between my system and a real Mac.

It's all about responsibility and as the consumer we are responsible for our actions and violations in the market, not the manufacturer whose only responsibilities are to not break the law and to make a profit for the shareholders.

Thank you so much for having sense and saying so. You are right on target my friend. It's so scary that the digital/internet age has some how eroded personal accountability. You are a shining beacon and give me hope. In a free society your freedom ends where someone else's begins.

 

[thechidz]

Yes, the motherboard = main board. Sometimes in a Mac, it is also called a logic board.

Take a look at cyberpowerpc.com, and check out what they currently have.
Their phone number is 1(800)707-0393. Give them a call or send an e-mail asking what motherboard is used on the specific model you're interested in.


This is the CPU's part number used in the computer.

Good Luck.
NF.

interesting, you can actually configure one to efix spec on their website because they have gigabyte mainboard options

thanks for the help

 

[sflocal]

And you know why they don't? Because the Intel Macs contain the EXACT SAME HARDWARE as any other PC.

So they use identical hardware. So what? How does that make a difference or justification? XBox uses PC hardware. Most consoles use a majority of off-the-shelf components too.

Why are you not ready to burn the villages because you can't run those operating systems on your after-market PC?

I'll tell you why, it's because they do not provide the ability to purchase the OS separately from the machine. If it gets wiped out, you have to bring it in to get it serviced and let them re-install the OS. Just try loading the XBox operating system on an aftermarket PC using the exact same components and see if Microsoft doesn't drop the hammer right on that head of yours. And they would be completely legal to do it. Apple is trying to avoid inconveniencing legitimate users should they have to re-install their OS for whatever reason if their machine came with an earlier OS than what is currently available.

I'm not against the hackint0sh community. I think Apple should make a middle-level desktop to fill the niche between the iMac and MacPro. But they haven't done so for whatever reason. I don't lose sleep over it.

But what the makers of EFIx is doing is wrong. Pure and simple. It's designed for one purpose only. To allow illegal installs of OSX.

Discontinue sales of the OSX CD. At least with that, any non-apple machine is guaranteed to have an illegal copy installed which makes it much easier to shut down those rogue companies.

 

[Joe The Dragon]

So they use identical hardware. So what? How does that make a difference or justification? XBox uses PC hardware. Most consoles use a majority of off-the-shelf components too.

Why are you not ready to burn the villages because you can't run those operating systems on your after-market PC?

I'll tell you why, it's because they do not provide the ability to purchase the OS separately from the machine. If it gets wiped out, you have to bring it in to get it serviced and let them re-install the OS. Just try loading the XBox operating system on an aftermarket PC using the exact same components and see if Microsoft doesn't drop the hammer right on that head of yours. And they would be completely legal to do it. Apple is trying to avoid inconveniencing legitimate users should they have to re-install their OS for whatever reason if their machine came with an earlier OS than what is currently available.

I'm not against the hackint0sh community. I think Apple should make a middle-level desktop to fill the niche between the iMac and MacPro. But they haven't done so for whatever reason. I don't lose sleep over it.

But what the makers of EFIx is doing is wrong. Pure and simple. It's designed for one purpose only. To allow illegal installs of OSX.

Discontinue sales of the OSX CD. At least with that, any non-apple machine is guaranteed to have an illegal copy installed which makes it much easier to shut down those rogue companies.

Even they stop selling the CD they can't say all payed for ones are now illegal. And how will mac uses update there systems mac os x is to big for download only.