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There are far better alternatives for about $170 less....

You are exactly correct. This device is simply a small flash based thumb drive with some software on it. To use this you have to set your PC to boot off the flash drive. You could get the same software (a software EFI emulator and boot loader) and put this on a CD-ROM and then set your computer to boo off the CD.

But for many people paying $170 is easier than doing some research with Google and burning a disc. After all this thing is just a flash drive, nothing more.
 
You are exactly correct. This device is simply a small flash based thumb drive with some software on it. To use this you have to set your PC to boot off the flash drive. You could get the same software (a software EFI emulator and boot loader) and put this on a CD-ROM and then set your computer to boo off the CD.

But for many people paying $170 is easier than doing some research with Google and burning a disc. After all this thing is just a flash drive, nothing more.

The price is $155 with plans to drop it even more.
 
Since this is a program more like Boot Camp that translates EFI bios to BIOS bios & back
Boot Camp doesn't EFI/BIOS translation at all.
It's just a fancy partitioning utility.
The EFI/BIOS is all worked out in the computer's firmwares.
How about this: both Apple and Porsche choose not to cater to those markets. They choose to allow others to fill the needs of the consumer without their respective competition.
Well... the comparison is inherently flawed in some way or the other.
For example, as far as I know Porsche doesn't arbitrarily restrict on which roads you may use their cars. You may as well drive their 911 on the worst off-road terrain imaginable. Your mileage may vary there (quite literally) just as it will with OS X on unsupported hardware. But at least Porsche aren't trying to prohibit how use their cars by some crappy EULA.
You are exactly correct. This device is simply a small flash based thumb drive with some software on it.
Is it? Really? I had heard otherwise somewhere...
 
You are exactly correct. This device is simply a small flash based thumb drive with some software on it. To use this you have to set your PC to boot off the flash drive. You could get the same software (a software EFI emulator and boot loader) and put this on a CD-ROM and then set your computer to boo off the CD.

But for many people paying $170 is easier than doing some research with Google and burning a disc. After all this thing is just a flash drive, nothing more.

Likely not - if it were just a flash drive they would have used one of the external USB ports - it's a ton easier. The fact that they use an internal header might be because whatever chips it does have need a little more power. Regardless, you have no idea what is in there. And your CD idea is just stupid - who wants to boot off a CD for the next couple years?
 
Well... the comparison is inherently flawed in some way or the other.
For example, as far as I know Porsche doesn't arbitrarily restrict on which roads you may use their cars. You may as well drive their 911 on the worst off-road terrain imaginable. Your mileage may vary there (quite literally) just as it will with OS X on unsupported hardware. But at least Porsche aren't trying to prohibit how use their cars by some crappy EULA.

The comparison isn't flawed: you turned it into something that is was not. I was arguing the point that Apple is apparently evil for not competing in every market—or, at least, they are "egotistical and telling the consumer that Apple knows better what the consumer wants than the consumer himself for not producing what I want!". The correlation is apt as it illustrates that every company in the entire world chooses in which markets they'd like to compete. You made it about OSes and EULAs. Now, since you brought that up, let's fix your analogy:

One buys a car and upon the completion of the transaction that satisfies both (or all) parties complete ownership of the item is transfered from the seller to the purchaser. One owns a car. If, however, one leases his car ownership is not transfered and remains with the lessor—just like one licenses ("leases") the use of software. In the case of a leased car the owner can, and does, dictate what can and cannot be done with said item. The terms and restrictions are even more strict when one rents from, say, Budget.

Lastly, Apple does not "arbitrarily restrict" the user; they are protecting their interests, their profit, and their IP. As a hardware-based corporation that is essential to its continued survival (at least until they choose to sell the OS alone).
 
All I have to say is REALLY? C'mon, REALLY? Let me translate the first bolded part into what your argument really boils down to. "WHAAA! WHAAAA! I want what I want the way I want it and if I can't have it then I will justify my choices by blaming someone else."

I guess you must enjoy not having choices in life. Let Steve decide for you, then. But don't tell me to be like you. I don't much like Bill Gates; in fact, I despise him, but I'd rather be his best friend than a fanboy.

Psystar is welcome to compete along with Dell, Lenovo, HP, Compaq, et cetera. What they're not allowed to do is take the fruits of Apple's labours, i.e. OS X, and use for their own gain.

They didn't 'take' it. They BOUGHT it. Learn the difference and maybe you'll realize that consumers should have rights too, not just big corporations and their distortion of copyrights to the nth degree. Apple's OS should compete with other operating systems. Their hardware should compete with other hardware given its nothing special these days, but the SAME stuff Dell is selling, except Dell doesn't tell you what you can put on their hardware. Apple shouldn't have to tie the two together and deny consumer rights to install their OS on the hardware of their choice in order to force someone to buy their overpriced hardware. Some of us are willing to buy OS X; that doesn't mean we want to buy Apple's overpriced hardware or stupid all-in-one designs that have nearly useless laptop GPUs and no expansion capability short of cluttering your desktop with extra power supplies and external cases. OS X is an operating system. It's not a computer in a monitor case. Some people on here apparently can't tell the difference, though.

This is as much political as it is anything else. Vote Republican and you vote for Corporate Rights to control your life instead of consumer rights to have freedom of choice in a democracy that's supposed to be ruled by the people, not the giant corporations and their rich owners. Some of us prefer freedom of choice just as much as freedom of speech. I'll tape tv shows if I want to. I'll skip commercials if I feel like it. Corporations WANT to make both of those actions into crimes for no other reason than their personal financial gain. People should know what they're really rooting for. Do you want to control the market or do you want the market to control you? Some of us would rather control our own lives than let companies like Microsoft or Apple dictate them for us. If you buy their products, their control should end there. If you're not pirating their software or using their software to commit crimes, it shouldn't be anyone's business what you're doing with it. If I buy a hunting rifle, it's not the manufacturer's or inventor's responsibility or right to control what I do with that rifle. So why do people put up with letting companies dictate what you can do with software? What makes it more special than hardware? An idea is less concrete than an idea put to use yet you appear to have less rights if you build something than if you just think about it. Just because some want to be lemmings, it doesn't mean I have to.
 
They didn't 'take' it. They BOUGHT it.

And modified it illegally and enabled others to break copyright and EULA restrictions.

Learn the difference and maybe you'll realize that consumers should have rights too, not just big corporations and their distortion of copyrights to the nth degree.

You just love to think of yourself as the rebel don't you? The social agitator and modern superhero fighting for the right of the vulgar man; buck the system by breaking the rules and flouting laws—instead of following the social and civil rules and letting it be a matter of law through allowing the courts to decide.

Apple's OS should compete with other operating systems.

How does it not?! OS X competes directly with many flavours of Windows and Linux.

You probably mean that Apple should allow OS X to compete on non-Apple hardware. Why? Why should they? Because you want them to? When you run Apple you can make that change.

Their hardware should compete with other hardware given its nothing special these days, but the SAME stuff Dell is selling, except Dell doesn't tell you what you can put on their hardware.

Apple doesn't dictate what one can install on their hardware either. In fact, it openly embraces allowing the user his choice of software.

Apple shouldn't have to tie the two together and deny consumer rights to install their OS on the hardware of their choice in order to force someone to buy their overpriced hardware.

Why not? It's Apple's business to run as it likes. If you don't like its business practices then don't buy Apple products. Oh, but you don't want to go without OS X, so instead of making a choice and perhaps biting the bullet and buying an Apple system (which countless comparisons have shown to be not only inline with PC prices but actually cheaper) you justify your illegal actions with "I don't like what they're doing so I'll just ignore the rules". I hope you aren't morally corrupting any children with this ME! ME! ME! attitude.

Some of us are willing to buy OS X; that doesn't mean we want to buy Apple's overpriced hardware or stupid all-in-one designs that have nearly useless laptop GPUs and no expansion capability short of cluttering your desktop with extra power supplies and external cases. OS X is an operating system. It's not a computer in a monitor case. Some people on here apparently can't tell the difference, though.

Dip into whatever hyperbole you like but everyone here can tell the difference between hardware and OS. The "issue" is that in Apple's systems they go hand-in-hand; it's a package deal. If you don't want the hardware you don't get the OS.

This is as much political as it is anything else. Vote Republican and you vote for Corporate Rights to control your life instead of consumer rights to have freedom of choice in a democracy that's supposed to be ruled by the people, not the giant corporations and their rich owners.

What the Hell is it with Americans bringing everything down to politics? Election year or not the forums are always cluttered with this crap.
 
Hypothetical scenario:
Apple removes all retail sales of OSX. Apple becomes just like other integrated systems provider like XBox, PS3, etc...

Joe Hacker walks into Microsoft's Redmond Headquarters and asks to purchase a retail copy of the XBox operating system to install on his own after-market PC that has 3 times the power at 1/2 the cost.

Sales rep kindly responds that the XBox OS is only available on a MS/XBox-branded system. "We do not allow the XBox software or titles to run on a different machine than what we provide."

Joe Hacker insists that since the XBox uses the same components as a regular PC, he believes he should be allowed to install the software on his own PC.

Sales Rep reiterates that the XBox is a closed system. Regardless of it using the same components, the system is closed and sold as a packaged system so that we can provide a more stable system and not dilute the XBox brand.

What should Joe Hacker say or do next?
 
Hypothetical scenario:
Apple removes all retail sales of OSX. Apple becomes just like other integrated systems provider like XBox, PS3, etc...

Joe Hacker walks into Microsoft's Redmond Headquarters and asks to purchase a retail copy of the XBox operating system to install on his own after-market PC that has 3 times the power at 1/2 the cost.

Sales rep kindly responds that the XBox OS is only available on a MS/XBox-branded system. "We do not allow the XBox software or titles to run on a different machine than what we provide."

Joe Hacker insists that since the XBox uses the same components as a regular PC, he believes he should be allowed to install the software on his own PC.

Sales Rep reiterates that the XBox is a closed system. Regardless of it using the same components, the system is closed and sold as a packaged system so that we can provide a more stable system and not dilute the XBox brand.

What should Joe Hacker say or do next?


I believe that in the past quarter Leopard made Apple a tidy $300M profit. Hell, I bought it myself due to XCode limitations forcing me to upgrade.

I very much doubt they will restrict its sale.
 
How could it not save money? You have no idea do you?

I could build a $3000 mac pro for $1200 tops.

Out of curiosity, I went over to New Egg and see how much it would be to assemble something similar to a mac pro...

2 x Xeon 3.0Ghz Quad Core CPUs - $2,019.98
Tyan dual xeon motherboard - $389.99
320Gb 7200rpm drive - $60
2GB DDR2 800mhz - $57
Nice Lian Li Aluminum case - 389.99
mighty mouse - $49
apple keyboard - $49
256mb radeon video card - $69
1000 watt power supply - $249.99 (on sale!)
10.5.4 Retail - $110
DL DVD drive - $27
Homebrew Total ------- $3,471.87

3Ghz Mac Pro total ---- $3,599.00

And I'm sure I forgot something... Oh yeah, $155 for that dongle. So the home brew machine costs more by about 27 bucks. With no single warranty.
 
I believe that in the past quarter Leopard made Apple a tidy $300M profit. Hell, I bought it myself due to XCode limitations forcing me to upgrade.

I very much doubt they will restrict its sale.

Yes, most of that from legitimate Apple owners upgrading their own Apple machine. Apple will not (nor should not) restrict sale of OSX to those folks. Apple will always continue to sell upgrade OSX to legal owners.

So what's your point?
 
Out of curiosity, I went over to New Egg and see how much it would be to assemble something similar to a mac pro...

2 x Xeon 3.0Ghz Quad Core CPUs - $2,019.98
Tyan dual xeon motherboard - $389.99
320Gb 7200rpm drive - $60
2GB DDR2 800mhz - $57
Nice Lian Li Aluminum case - 389.99
mighty mouse - $49
apple keyboard - $49
256mb radeon video card - $69
1000 watt power supply - $249.99 (on sale!)
10.5.4 Retail - $110
DL DVD drive - $27
Homebrew Total ------- $3,471.87

3Ghz Mac Pro total ---- $3,599.00

And I'm sure I forgot something... Oh yeah, $155 for that dongle. So the home brew machine costs more by about 27 bucks. With no single warranty.

Yeah, but what if I want the mini tower without the $2000 worth of XEON processors? What if I just want a $200 Core 2 Duo or a $400 Core 2 Quad? That removes $1600-1800 from your price. And Apple sells no comparable machine to that.
 
Yeah, but what if I want the mini tower without the $2000 worth of XEON processors? What if I just want a $200 Core 2 Duo or a $400 Core 2 Quad? That removes $1600-1800 from your price. And Apple sells no comparable machine to that.

Thay may well be, but he was responding to someone claiming to be able to build something comparable to the actual Mac Pro for only $1200. You're talking about a much more resaonable and realistic sub-$2K build. But there were people claiming to be able to build the Mac Pro for half the price, which is odd when they were claming an overall price less than the CPU.

I guess the real question is, going by the limitations of what EFiX will work with, what's the minimal EFiX-compatible system and what would it cost to build.
Especially as I've read in this thread people refute the official EFiX quote of "It is not for who wants to save money, at all." It would be interesting to see how what you could spec up with one of these would stack up to what some people would like it to be able to do. I don't doubt it can be used to build some machine significantly cheaper than the Mac Pro, but I find myself wondering if some of the people who are interested think it's the Holy Grail that can do things even the official website says it can't.

The other interesting thing would be that the above-quoted build list was price comparable to the Mac Pro. So knowing what lower spec yet quality components can be used would possibly give a general guideline to what sort of price a Not-Pro would cost should Apple ever decide they actually wanted to produce one. But if they did use desktop-class components, it would be interesting to know what sort of parts/prices they would have. Even just as mere speculation.
 
Out of curiosity, I went over to New Egg and see how much it would be to assemble something similar to a mac pro...

2 x Xeon 3.0Ghz Quad Core CPUs - $2,019.98
Tyan dual xeon motherboard - $389.99
320Gb 7200rpm drive - $60
2GB DDR2 800mhz - $57
Nice Lian Li Aluminum case - 389.99
mighty mouse - $49
apple keyboard - $49
256mb radeon video card - $69
1000 watt power supply - $249.99 (on sale!)
10.5.4 Retail - $110
DL DVD drive - $27
Homebrew Total ------- $3,471.87

3Ghz Mac Pro total ---- $3,599.00

And I'm sure I forgot something... Oh yeah, $155 for that dongle. So the home brew machine costs more by about 27 bucks. With no single warranty.
you don't need a 389.99 case or that much of a PSU if you just useing 1 video card. You can get your mouse with more buttons and a better price and usb key boards cost less as well.
 
Thay may well be, but he was responding to someone claiming to be able to build something comparable to the actual Mac Pro for only $1200. You're talking about a much more resaonable and realistic sub-$2K build. But there were people claiming to be able to build the Mac Pro for half the price, which is odd when they were claming an overall price less than the CPU.

you can get a 775 1 cpu exon system for a lot less then the 1 cpu $2300 mac pro.

The 2 cpu system is priced good but that is at $2800
 
I believe that in the past quarter Leopard made Apple a tidy $300M profit. Hell, I bought it myself due to XCode limitations forcing me to upgrade.

I very much doubt they will restrict its sale.

I was not aware that Apple released profit for OS X in their quarterly statements. I don't think they even release revenue. :confused:

Also, "forcing me to upgrade" is not the same as "providing features that make me want to upgrade."
 
The old anarchy argument

I guess you must enjoy not having choices in life. Let Steve decide for you, then. But don't tell me to be like you. I don't much like Bill Gates; in fact, I despise him, but I'd rather be his best friend than a fanboy.

Apple shouldn't have to tie the two together and deny consumer rights to install their OS on the hardware of their choice in order to force someone to buy their overpriced hardware. OS X is an operating system. It's not a computer in a monitor case. Some people on here apparently can't tell the difference, though.

The anarchy stance doesn't work. Individuals can't legally do whatever they want just because they are physically able to. Your reference to consumer rights is misguided. We all have rights, but having rights doesn't mean we can do anything we want with other people's property, intellectual or physical. Sure there are a lot of things in life that people think "shouldn't" be a certain way. But it doesn't give you the right to blame the other side for your argument or your actions. Exactly how far do you take your stance in real life practice? If you don't agree with the speed limit, do you blame the police for not giving you the freedom to drive what you think is a safe speed. The bottom line is this, grow up. There are limits and boundaries in life. You will never get away from them.

My point in joining this forum topic is not to say that you don't have the actual ability to do what you want. As I said in previous posts, you are free to build a hackintosh or buy an EFI dongle. But, don't argue that Apple is forcing you to do this or spout some absurd viewpoint void of any personal accountability or responsibility. That's the same as saying I pirate software or music because the "corporations are making too much money and I can't afford to pay the ridiculous prices." I know you will probably respond with saying "I didn't steal OSX, I paid for it." What I'm pointing out is that the logic you are using is the same. It's all ridiculous anti-establishment, I should have what I want the way I want it, rhetoric. That's why I praised others in the thread who willingly accepted that they break the EULA and would face whatever consequences that could/might come. Will consequences come, probably not, but these people are showing self awareness and a measure of personal responsibility.

Last, calling me a fanboy, SERIOUSLY! Going down this road weakens your argument even more. The debate is over intellectual property rights and personal ethics/accountability, not whether I enjoy using apple products. FYI, I enjoy using Windows and many other consumer products as well. :D
 
Reread your post carefully...

I don't understand how I'm acting irresponsibly. Violating their EULA maybe, but not irresponsible. I'm simply treating Apple products just like any other product I've ever owned: Cars, TVs, stereos, media players, furniture, etc. Buy it, use it, sell it (or recycle it). It's simple. If my couch came with an EULA license agreement saying I could only lay on, not sit on it (maybe the love seat is sit only), I'd say "too bad" and do want I want.

Your posts says it all my friend and reading it communicates that you clearly don't understand. First off, you are comparing apples to oranges. "If my couch came with a EULA..." Great point, your examples are products that don't come with an EULA and therefore don't apply. There is a difference in the way intellectual and copyrighted products are viewed by the law vs. physical products that do actually transfer ownership. Not understanding this places you in the ignorant of the law camp, not the righteous protester camp. The "I'd say 'too bad' and do what I want" statement places you in the irresponsible, self-centered, unethical camp to which I was referring in the previous post. Thank you for so eloquently making my point. ;)
 
you don't need a 389.99 case or that much of a PSU if you just useing 1 video card. You can get your mouse with more buttons and a better price and usb key boards cost less as well.

That's not the point. Without the case and PSU, you can't directly compare the machine to a Mac Pro. In fact, even with that, the machine he specced would likely be louder than a Mac Pro, because the fan management (through the Mac's SMC) won't be there, so it's actually inferior in one more way he didn't mention.

jW
 
just repeating what's already been said on these forums but how many of you *righteous* people against this me me me, I can do what I like with what I bought attitude at one point cracked your iphone? :rolleyes:
 
Umm, try Apple's financial statements? Try Apple's earnings conference calls? Try google?
Okay, I looked at all those places. No mention of profit margin on OS X sales. About all they ever publish is revenues on "Software, Services and Other Sales". So, show me the money?
 
Out of curiosity, I went over to New Egg and see how much it would be to assemble something similar to a mac pro...

2 x Xeon 3.0Ghz Quad Core CPUs - $2,019.98
Tyan dual xeon motherboard - $389.99
320Gb 7200rpm drive - $60
2GB DDR2 800mhz - $57
Nice Lian Li Aluminum case - 389.99
mighty mouse - $49
apple keyboard - $49
256mb radeon video card - $69
1000 watt power supply - $249.99 (on sale!)
10.5.4 Retail - $110
DL DVD drive - $27
Homebrew Total ------- $3,471.87

3Ghz Mac Pro total ---- $3,599.00

And I'm sure I forgot something... Oh yeah, $155 for that dongle. So the home brew machine costs more by about 27 bucks. With no single warranty.

For the guys that think a custom made Mac Pro is cheaper you can see that is not true but guys like us are looking to pay for something that we need, for example instead of two xeons we want a single Core 2 Quad, instead of 1GW PSU we want a 650W one, instead of a dual Xeon Mobo we look for a sigle CPU so it will be priced around $150 - $300 instead of FD-DIMM we can look for high end DDR2 or DDR3, instead of a cheap radeon card we look for a 4870(x2) or a GTX260/280 plus a good sound card around $150 - $200 which currently doesn't exist + a PCIe TV Tuner card (doesn't exists) so my point here is that we get on a mac pro an amazing hardware but unfortunatelly we can't customise it to the needs of some of us.

I'm not sure why apple doesn't cares about this marker, I'm not sure either if this market is not profitable or if this market is too small to enter.

So meanwhile we will see support for devices like this and other customs (free) methods.
 
just repeating what's already been said on these forums but how many of you *righteous* people against this me me me, I can do what I like with what I bought attitude at one point cracked your iphone? :rolleyes:

Is it illegal to jailbreak an iPhone/iPod Touch? My understanding—and I freely admit that I could be wrong—is that there's no violation of the EULA nor any laws.
 
Is it illegal to jailbreak an iPhone/iPod Touch? My understanding—and I freely admit that I could be wrong—is that there's no violation of the EULA nor any laws.

"YOU AGREE THAT YOU WILL NOT ATTEMPT TO, OR ENCOURAGE OR ASSIST ANY OTHER PERSON TO, CIRCUMVENT OR MODIFY ANY SECURITY TECHNOLOGY OR SOFTWARE THAT IS PART OF THE SERVICE OR USED TO ADMINISTER THE USAGE RULES."
 
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