Elon Musk Claims Apple Has 'Mostly Stopped' Offering Ads on Twitter and Is Making Moderation Demands

[thettareddast]

The people hashing out the historical, legal, and etymological basis of “free speech”, i regret to inform, are playing tennis on the wrong court.

This has never been about that legal context. Governments have (mostly) not been involved.

It is about the private domain, and the right to unpopular speech, and whether thats been coerced into suppression by private actors (=the platforms, not the feds).

Its really about your opinion on the cultural playground, not what was written into the actual Constitution or its 33 amendments or subsequent court rulings.

Sorry - back to your regular programming.

 

[hans1972]

It’s not about what they tweet, it’s about what they represent. Its hatred in the most extreme form. But sure, if clinging to some arbitrary guidelines as a way to justify it makes you feel ok with it then you do you.

Apple doesn't care about that and I think it is much better to be concerned about content than who creates the content. It's also much easier to judge.

Are you saying that white supremacist should be disallowed from Twitter because who they are and not for what they posts?

 

[Handsome Bacon]

Foxconn factory (i.e., forced labor) employees literally being beaten with batons today, and Apple is more concerned with taking a stand against mean words from randos with 5 followers on Twitter. I guess they'll do anything for that sweet ESG score.

 

[frownface]

The best move tim cook could make at this point, is to delete his twitter account.

 

[hans1972]

Elephant in the room. https://finance.yahoo.com/news/apple-hobbled-crucial-tool-dissent-185100767.html

This is old news and has been covered extensively including here on Macrumors. Apple will also roll out this feature worldwide next year.

 

[teh_hunterer]

Are you conflating the first amendment right to free speech with being allowed to make that speech wherever you want without consequence? If you come into my house and say racist or transphobic things, I'm perfectly within my rights to tell you to leave. That doesn't mean I'm taking away your first amendment rights. Try again. Hopefully with a better example. Come on, with the kind of claim you made you should have at least half a dozen examples to pull out of your back pocket. Instead all I'm seeing from you is persecution complex.

You see a persecution complex from me saying that the political lines have changed? That's a weird thing to say. Maybe you're just trying to bait people?

It's fairly obvious that the political lines are being redrawn over the last 10 years. People who were left of centre, whose values haven't changed, are now considered far right by vast swathes of people. If you've voted for the left for your entire life, but you're skeptical of gender ideology, you're labeled as far right.

This far left pro censorship, pro gender ideology, racially obsessed identity politics that has come out of academic institutions and leaked into everyone's daily life is not simple left vs right politics. It's new, and I don't believe you can seriously pretend otherwise.

You can just look at a whole bunch of people in the public eye who used to all get along and where it felt like everyone had more or less the same values, and watch them fall hard on either side of this new political divide.

 

[Azathoth123]

But Apple doesn't have that right to ban

Yes they do, on their own platforms. They also do not have to support any other platforms that are not in their business interests.

 

[TheYayAreaLiving 🎗️]

The best move tim cook could make at this point, is to delete his twitter account.

If he does that.. Is Twitter going to refund his $8.00 subscription fee?

 

[hans1972]

Apple has no problem with TikTok though. What country owns TikTok?

Apple doesn't care about the owner, they care about the user generated content, the moderation process of the app developer and how this affects Apple.

Apple doesn't care about the user who generated the content either.

 

[vipergts2207]

That is your choice.

But Apple doesn't have that right to ban. Like you don't have right to ban what I have to say.

Yes they can. They don’t have to let you on their platform. Try making a porn or marijuana app and see what happens.

 

[dk001]

Nobody has an answer to this?

You pretty much called it.

 

[thettareddast]

Being allowed to speak freely is fine. I don't have to listen to it. I can encourage others to not listen to it. I can encourage others to not give you use of their own resources to say it. If your speech is so vile that the only place left for your speech is in front of the statehouse or courthouse, that's your problem. Also, the question specifically related to online speech, not in general. If no tech companies want to host what your speech, that's your problem as well.

I personally agree with your entire post.

Except the first sentence is specifically wrong. (Note= i dont disagree with it)

This conversation started when someone claimed ‘group X only supports their own speech - otherwise they want to ban books yadda yadda’

The survey I used demonstrates the opposite: group Y dont think being allowed to speak freely is fine—they think it is less important than saying nice things. group X supports speech regardless of content.

 

[teh_hunterer]

I’m generally not rude or condescending, but I’m honestly tired of the cesspool where swimming in.

Your statement of the “goal” makes no sense. This is why the gold standard definition of freedom of speech is the US First Amendment. Where the government has very little power to determine valid speech because the act of censorship will always result in speech being suppressed. The government is forced to endure all speech, valid and invalid, as it is powerless to determine its validity.

To say that some censorship is required, but “not from a view that differs from mine” is nonsensical. What’s considered “porn” is very much something that differs across political and ideological spectrums. The same for violence and anything else…

In the pre-Internet world we had reasonable ways to limit the damage to those who sit in the back of the class. Sadly, we have yet to find a way to build those guardrails in tech and until we do we’ll lose a lot drowning in the ocean.

We're talking about what people want, which is a platform where one side of politics doesn't dominate the other into silence. People call that free speech, but what they're really after is just what I described. And what is wrong with that? You can't sanitise the whole world so you only see people who agree with you.

We all know that a social media giant like Twitter must remove some content - if they've decided they don't want porn, I think most people are happy to comply and don't really care about it. But the general expectation is that you wouldn't have politically motivated censorship, and that's why you're seeing all this mention of free speech, and it's why we're all arguing about it. We're not all arguing about porn being allowed on Twitter, because for the most part none of us care about that at all.

 

[ArtOfWarfare]

I would love to see Elon’s attempt at a phone, as he threatened to make.

Making a phone is well within Tesla's capabilities.

They already have a custom OS with dozens of apps and games that runs in the car. The car has custom silicon for running full self driving, plus the company builds the compute units for the supercomputer ("Dojo") that processes all the data for full self driving.

Tesla is generally regarded as having the world's best batteries (and also the largest quantity of batteries).

The cars already contain wifi, LTE, bluetooth and cameras.

Tesla has everything to make a formidable competitor to the iPhone.

The biggest unknown to me is whether they start with Android or the Tesla Car OS. Android is a mixed bag - it'd be hard to argue you're privacy focused which I think would be a major focus for Musk. But obviously you have millions of apps from the get-go. On the flip side, they already have experience with their own OS. Bringing their car OS to a phone would allow way more apps to be made for Tesla's platforms. And at the same time, you don't need millions of apps - you need the few hundred that people actually want/use, and a lot of those could easily be replaced with just using a website instead.

 

[hans1972]

Elon has made some people so crazy that they are defending the Taliban now.

I'm not defending Taliban it's just that you don't understand Apple's policies and the guidelines for the App Store.

Those guidelines are there to protect Apple first, and customer second.

Apple doesn't care about the owner of an app, the user of an app. They don't care if you're good or bad. They only care about the content and the processes the app developer has in place to deal with unwanted content.

Judging the morality or ethicality of an owner, app developer or user can be exceedingly difficult and almost impossible to do. Judging content and more speficially how a social network deals with content (on a large scale) is much easier. Which is what Apple does.

 

[project_2501]

You can just look at a whole bunch of people in the public eye who used to all get along and where it felt like everyone had more or less the same values, and watch them fall hard on either side of this new political divide.

Truly spoken like someone with blindness that comes with privilege. "I didn't see a problem and now I'm upset you're showing it to me".

 

[vipergts2207]

The people hashing out the historical, legal, and etymological basis of “free speech”, i regret to inform, are playing tennis on the wrong court.

This has never been about that legal context. Governments have (mostly) not been involved.

It is about the private domain, and the right to unpopular speech, and whether thats been coerced into suppression by private actors (=the platforms, not the feds).

Its really about your opinion on the cultural playground, not what was written into the actual Constitution or its 33 amendments or subsequent court rulings.

Sorry - back to your regular programming.

Sorry, but that’s an extreme view. A person nor a company are under any obligation to assist you in making your speech, nor should they be. If you can’t find someone willing to help facilitate, then go stand on the street corner. The right wanted money to be speech and corporations to be people. Congrats, you made your bed now lie in it.

Ha suck it libs.
No wait, not like that!

 

[DMG35]

Are you saying that white supremacist should be disallowed from Twitter because who they are and not for what they posts?

I'm not saying either. I don't use the platform. I'm saying that people's outrage over "hate speech" is ridiculous A. it's nothing new and B. some of the most vile people in the world are allowed on Twitter.

But if I had my choice then yes, white supremacists should not be allowed on Twitter. But your comment makes little sense unless in their bio it says "white supremacist." They would have to out themselves by a tweet making it known what they are. The Taliban doesn't have to tweet anything negative for people to know they are some of the worst people in society.

 

[paulvee]

Let’s be real. The left doesn’t like any speech that disagrees with their viewpoint and they want to shut it down.

Let’s be real - Musk wants to do whatever he wants, but doesn’t want Apple to do the same. Let’s be real - Musk is ousting users who speak ill of him. Boohoo. Let’s be real - when the right doesn’t get their way, they cry foul.

 

[project_2501]

Let’s be real. The left doesn’t like any speech that disagrees with their viewpoint and they want to shut it down.

What is it that you want to say but feel you can't?

The left doesn't like speech that causes people actual harm - like incitement to hatred and violence, like spreading libel, like calling "fire" in a theatre, bullying, ... the usual stuff that most sensible democracies either discourage or penalise in law.

So, I'll ask directly, be brave and tell its what you want to say but feel you can't. Don't be shy.

 

[dmelgar]

It is concerning how many people are cheering on the idea of Apple banishing Twitter from the App Store.

Unless you can point to specific reasons that should be done compared to prior to Elon's ownership and not just "Elon is a bad man", you're ok with apps being disallowed just based on who owns them.

"Agree with us 100% of the time or you're silenced". Is that really what you think is right?

To state the obvious, because Elon has enabled and encouraged hate speech on the site. Bringing back banned accounts with racist accounts and those inciting violence.
Apples terms and conditions state there need to be clear moderation rules that are enforced.
Elon is making this up as he goes. There are no rules. Only his whims. One second he says all speech is allowed, permanent bans are bad. Until someone made fun of him. Suddenly new rule. That’s not allowed. Permanently banned!
Just one of countless examples of his thin skin since he owns the platform. He bought it so no one can censor his rants.
And btw, Elon did not found Tesla, and he even lied about holding his son as he died. The guy has absolutely no scruples.

 

[Shasterball]

Nobody has an answer to this?

Musk made a pretty hard pivot to the right in the past few years. I'm not saying you should dislike him for it, but his forwarding facing persona has changed.

 

[teh_hunterer]

Sorry, but that’s an extreme view. A person nor a company are under any obligation to assist you in making your speech, nor should they be. If you can’t find someone willing to help facilitate, then go stand on the street corner. The right wanted money to be speech and corporations to be people. Congrats, you made your bed now lie in it.

Ha suck it libs.
No wait, not like that!

Their view is perfectly rational and not extreme in the slightest.

Not directed at me, but I'm not on the right, nor am I American, and I don't think a platform like Twitter should censor just for one side of politics. Why should it?

 

[Pezimak]

Apples loss IMO, the virtue signalling on display by the giant corporations here including Apple is beyond hypocritical.

 

[ipooed]

Why are you wasting your time virtue signaling with this comment then? Be the change you wish to see in the world.

I’ve donated my time and raise funds and product for my local homeless for more than a year now, I seek out the homeless to buy them meals everywhere I go. I do the stuff I preach. I just can’t get over the back and fourth on this thread. It’s legit worse than my 7 and 3 year old